The Independence Movement in Quebec is Imploding on Itself

[Jeffrey Weinstein]

There is a grave and fundamental problem in Quebec Politics, if while wanting independent state it still can never remove itself from the social and economic pitfalls that plague Canada and the rest of the Western world. An  Independent Quebec, is doomed to rot at its core if the leadership does not diverge from a conventional Corporate Capitalist model that renders every state in peril. The Housing crisis is a case in point. Unless they embrace Social Democracy, they will be dooming themselves to interminable crises and failures within the Socio-Economic and Socio-Political system, creating an environment of instability, fragility and dependency on ties with Corporate Capitalist elements even from beyond its own elites. The right-wing conservative stance of the CAQ does not lend itself to the goals of the PQ or Quebec Solidaire.

Just merely creating a defacto independent state, only embeds the elites in a constant legal and constitutional quandry. The illusion will soon find its termination point. Federally, the raison d'etre for the nation of Canada may before too long be called into question.

 

Jeffrey L. Weinstein M.A. (Public Policy and Public Administration) Concordia University

[ExFlyer]

Quebec separatism is a many decades old issue.

https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/separatism

It dies down then rises up again, like a phoenix. It all depended on if and what Quebec gets from Ottawa.

 

Truth is, if the rest of Canada had been able to vote on Quebec separatism, Quebec would have been long gone LOL

[herbie]

Not all Canadians are willing to cut off our nose just to spite our own face.
Quebec made and still makes Canada.

[August1991]

On 8/19/2024 at 3:31 PM, Jeffrey Weinstein said:

..... An  Independent Quebec, is doomed to rot at its core if the leadership does not diverge from a conventional Corporate Capitalist model that renders every state in peril. The Housing crisis is a case in point....

 

Iceland, some 300,000 people, have survived for centuries

Newfouudlanders too. Like Iceland. a sustainable civilised society. Survived for centuries.

Norway? Independent, not part of the EU. Own currency. Hydro. Oil, natural gas. About 6 million people.

====

I understand Trudeau Snr.

 

[ExFlyer]

13 hours ago, herbie said:

Not all Canadians are willing to cut off our nose just to spite our own face.
Quebec made and still makes Canada.

I would like you to substantiate that statement please.

[herbie]

Read a history book. Look at the first 'colonists' and what differentiates us from Australia and New Zealand.

[ExFlyer]

16 hours ago, herbie said:

Read a history book. Look at the first 'colonists' and what differentiates us from Australia and New Zealand.

Oh, the Vikings?

"With the Treaty of Paris in 1763, France chose to abandon Canada. This was mainly because the colony had cost more than it had returned. France also made no subsequent attempt to regain Canada""

[herbie]

What does that have to do with anything?

The Francophone culture existed and was recognized before Canada existed and has been official for a long time. Who else has 2 official languages, Metis, and expanded via voyageurs?

[Jeffrey Weinstein]

I would like to have documented evidence of the Canadians who really care that Quebec remains part of Canada. The good majority of Canadians especially in the West choose voluntarily to remain ignorant of Quebec history and politics. The West has historically pulled against the interests of the Ottawa in Canada. National unity, at best, has been fragile and tenuous. Politics have muddled and further complicated the prospect of this unity.

The Canadian constitution in spite of the Meech Lake accords has not fundamentally changed in favour of human rights for minorities and political unity generally speaking. The Notwithstanding clause is a weaponized constitutional legality, that threatend Federalism at its very core. Federalism remains in peril due to lack of significant and meaningful Constitutional amendment. No politician wants to go there. Their own political careers seem to be much more important than their interests of saving Canada from the moral rot it has suffered in the past 40 years. We will not have what was supposed to be Canada. We will be left with a Federation of autonomous states, each pursuing its own destiny, at the behest of a central governing body, that may or may not support them financially. 

[herbie]

IF you base your opinion on the posts from looudmouthed redneck malcontents and a$$holes.

Who do you think explored and settled the west, never heard of the Northwest or Hudson Bay Company? As Granma used to say the Scot, French, Metis and Indians did all the work, the f*cking Englishment took their money, abandoned the wife and kids and went back home to fame and glory. After that came immigrants.
No idea about now but in the 1960/70s a huge part of History classes were about early Canada, and a LOT of Quebec history. Back in the days before people resented learning things.

 

[paradox34]

On 8/19/2024 at 1:31 PM, Jeffrey Weinstein said:

There is a grave and fundamental problem in Quebec Politics, if while wanting independent state it still can never remove itself from the social and economic pitfalls that plague Canada and the rest of the Western world. An  Independent Quebec, is doomed to rot at its core if the leadership does not diverge from a conventional Corporate Capitalist model that renders every state in peril. The Housing crisis is a case in point. Unless they embrace Social Democracy, they will be dooming themselves to interminable crises and failures within the Socio-Economic and Socio-Political system, creating an environment of instability, fragility and dependency on ties with Corporate Capitalist elements even from beyond its own elites. The right-wing conservative stance of the CAQ does not lend itself to the goals of the PQ or Quebec Solidaire.

Just merely creating a defacto independent state, only embeds the elites in a constant legal and constitutional quandry. The illusion will soon find its termination point. Federally, the raison d'etre for the nation of Canada may before too long be called into question.

 

Jeffrey L. Weinstein M.A. (Public Policy and Public Administration) Concordia University

Interesting thought. My own views are somewhat more plebian. The Quebec sovereignty movement is all bluster and its past time that Ottawa call its bluff. The simple truth is that Quebec, of all provinces, benefits the most from its inclusion within Canada. It's economic contribution does not justify the economic drain nor continuous political strife. Quebec has contributed more to the divisive social structure of Canada than any other and while it would sadden me to lose the historical and cultural heritage of Quebec the rest of Canada would not only survive but probably benefit from its departure. 

[herbie]

Is that an Alberta style suggestion? Split the country in two divided parts lose control over 3 seas, toss out our heritage and cuiture and lose ten million citizens so you can have a couple extra coins in your pocket?

[eyeball]

48 minutes ago, herbie said:

Is that an Alberta style suggestion? Split the country in two divided parts lose control over 3 seas, toss out our heritage and cuiture and lose ten million citizens so you can have a couple extra coins in your pocket?

I think we could better manage our ocean from right here on the coast myself. Ottawa is 1500 miles from the nearest ocean and it shows in their mismanagement of fisheries to the point of near total collapse in two of them.  These wiped out a lot of heritage and culture too.

I'm more of bioregional guy myself and from where I'm sitting Cascadia makes more sense than Canada.

[Moonlight Graham]

6 hours ago, eyeball said:

I think we could better manage our ocean from right here on the coast myself. Ottawa is 1500 miles from the nearest ocean and it shows in their mismanagement of fisheries to the point of near total collapse in two of them.  These wiped out a lot of heritage and culture too.

I'm more of bioregional guy myself and from where I'm sitting Cascadia makes more sense than Canada.

So you want a big hippie commune drug-den.  Good luck with that.

[August1991]

On 9/8/2024 at 7:59 AM, Jeffrey Weinstein said:

I would like to have documented evidence of the Canadians who really care that Quebec remains part of Canada.

....

Lviv was once Lvov and before Lemberg.

Montreal is a modern world civilised remnant of this European past.

Pierre Trudeau once wrote: "Are we to make the West Island a Danzig of the new world?|"

He said in the US Congress, "The separation of Canada would be a crime against humanity."

[August1991]

Like Trump, Trudeau Snr was a showman.

He got an Albertan (Jack Horner) to cross the floor, made him a minister.

And then he said, "If I can do it with Jack, you can do it with Quebec."

[eyeball]

10 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

So you want a big hippie commune drug-den.  Good luck with that.

You're so right wing now. 

WTF happened to you anyways, who got to you?

[Moonlight Graham]

12 hours ago, eyeball said:

You're so right wing now. 

WTF happened to you anyways, who got to you?

Ezra Levant cornered me in an alleyway.

[August1991]

This forum is good for Canada.

It reminds me of Cite Libre

[Mathieub]

This our shame here. I estimate they are just people that don't want to work.

[August1991]

Jeffrey Weinstein is free to say what he thinks  - openly.

For years, like Voltaire, I hide between a name.

[Michael Hardner]

On 9/20/2024 at 8:31 PM, August1991 said:

This forum is good for Canada.

It reminds me of Cite Libre

It is as if that publication was populated with people without any knowledge.

[Michael Hardner]

On 9/11/2024 at 11:36 AM, eyeball said:

You're so right wing now. 

WTF happened to you anyways, who got to you?

Why do you think that people are embracing Poilievre?  The Overton window caught up with centrism, and even the Liberals can't squat in the muddy middle and make people happy. 

I will be amazed if the next government does any better. The government after that... Who knows...

[eyeball]

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Why do you think that people are embracing Poilievre? 

Desperation for the most part.

[August1991]

On 10/5/2024 at 6:34 AM, Michael Hardner said:

It is as if that publication was populated with people without any knowledge.

Michael,

You have no idea.