Are Republicans For or Against IVF?

[Matthew]

IVF is overwhelmingly supported by Americans, even by quite a huge share of anti-abortion-in-all-cases Republicans. A few republicans have proposed bills to protect IVF from anti-abortion laws. But so far a conservative Alabama court this year sided against IVF in a case, and this summer a large number of republican lawmakers in Congress sided against protecting IVF in a bill that would have done so.

So has the republican consensus on this already been decided and if so, what is it and why?

 

[gatomontes99]

Geese. You can't get that much agreement on what pizza is best.

[Hodad]

11 minutes ago, gatomontes99 said:

Geese. You can't get that much agreement on what pizza is best.

But what about all those "murdered babies"?

[gatomontes99]

1 minute ago, Hodad said:

But what about all those "murdered babies"?

You know nothing about IVF if you think the discarded fertilized eggs had a chance.

[Hodad]

1 minute ago, gatomontes99 said:

You know nothing about IVF if you think the discarded fertilized eggs had a chance.

They are fertilized eggs. That's a person in conservative politics. 

[Goddess]

How 'bout we just leave medical decisions to others and their doctor?

[Matthew]

21 minutes ago, gatomontes99 said:

Geese.

Yes, but who's leading them?

Edited August 14 by Matthew

[gatomontes99]

4 minutes ago, Hodad said:

They are fertilized eggs. That's a person in conservative politics. 

Total fallacy. First, they may not be fertilized. Even though the seman is inserted, that doesn't mean it is going to develop.

Second, those that arent going to develop are tossed and the "possibly" viable are then inserted back into the woman.

Third, there is no way to know what is and isn't viable in a natural pregnancy. Like Schrödinger's cat, they can be thought of as both alive and dead. Conservatives chose life because being wrong about it being alive us meaningless but being wrong about it being dead is catastrophic.

[Matthew]

2 minutes ago, gatomontes99 said:

First, they may not be fertilized

The procedure involves fertilizing many eggs. If they aren't fertilized they are doing the procedure wrong.

[gatomontes99]

1 hour ago, Matthew said:

The procedure involves fertilizing many eggs. If they aren't fertilized they are doing the procedure wrong.

The sperm is inserted, that doesn't guarantee fertilization.

[Hodad]

25 minutes ago, gatomontes99 said:

Total fallacy. First, they may not be fertilized. Even though the seman is inserted, that doesn't mean it is going to develop.

Second, those that arent going to develop are tossed and the "possibly" viable are then inserted back into the woman.

Third, there is no way to know what is and isn't viable in a natural pregnancy. Like Schrödinger's cat, they can be thought of as both alive and dead. Conservatives chose life because being wrong about it being alive us meaningless but being wrong about it being dead is catastrophic.

Lol. You really have no idea. 

The procedures to retrieve the eggs are invasive, expensive and generally unpleasant. They harvest the eggs in large batches. They also fertilize the eggs in large batches, though harvesting semen is considerably more pleasant.

In these batches a certain number become tested, viable embryos. Some are selected (random or deliberate) and implanted with the hope of at least one making it to the next stage of development. The rest are frozen and, eventually, discarded. 

So why are Republicans pro murder all of a sudden?

 

Of course, I'm kidding. It's not murder in the least. But then again, neither is abortion. The trouble is you people can't make up your minds. 

[Matthew]

1 hour ago, gatomontes99 said:

The sperm is inserted, that doesn't guarantee fertilization.

They won't do the procedure if there are no fertilized embryos that have reached a certain level of maturity (called the blastocyst stage).

According to this account, it usually takes fertilization attempts on about a dozen mature eggs to produce 1 normal embryo. Ideally if they can collect many eggs they will attempt to produce several healthy embryos and they can then freeze viable embryos for future IVF cycles.

[User]

Here you go:

 

4. Republicans Will Protect and Defend a Vote of the People, from within the States, on the Issue of Life

We proudly stand for families and Life. We believe that the 14th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States guarantees that no person can be denied Life or Liberty without Due Process, and that the States are, therefore, free to pass Laws protecting those Rights. After 51 years, because of us, that power has been given to the States and to a vote of the People. We will oppose Late Term Abortion, while supporting mothers and policies that advance Prenatal Care, access to Birth Control, and IVF (fertility treatments).

https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/2024-republican-party-platform

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, Hodad said:

They are fertilized eggs. That's a person in conservative politics. 

And as usual the left has to lie and paint all conservatives with one brush to try to prop up it's nonsense bullshit

[CdnFox]

7 minutes ago, User said:

Here you go:

 

4. Republicans Will Protect and Defend a Vote of the People, from within the States, on the Issue of Life

We proudly stand for families and Life. We believe that the 14th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States guarantees that no person can be denied Life or Liberty without Due Process, and that the States are, therefore, free to pass Laws protecting those Rights. After 51 years, because of us, that power has been given to the States and to a vote of the People. We will oppose Late Term Abortion, while supporting mothers and policies that advance Prenatal Care, access to Birth Control, and IVF (fertility treatments).

https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/2024-republican-party-platform

That doesn't count. That document comes from republicans. Only democrats get to say what republican policy actually is,  

[Matthew]

3 minutes ago, User said:

while supporting mothers and policies that advance Prenatal Care, access to Birth Control, and IVF (fertility treatments).

So where is the disconnect between the republican platform and the actions of seemingly a majority of republican lawmakers who have so far not come down on the side of protecting this procedure from anti- abortion laws?

[User]

1 minute ago, Matthew said:

So where is the disconnect between the republican platform and the actions of seemingly a majority of republican lawmakers who have so far not come down on the side of protecting this procedure from anti- abortion laws?

You will need to explain this more. 

Is there some big Republican push to outlaw this that I missed?

 

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, Matthew said:

So where is the disconnect between the republican platform and the actions of seemingly a majority of republican lawmakers who have so far not come down on the side of protecting this procedure from anti- abortion laws?

The issue may be a perception problem on your end. You assume that these lawmakers for some reason are acting out of a dislike for iVF. It could very well have had a problem with the law itself, or some other issue that prevented them from supporting that particular bill at that particular time. Generally speaking obviously republicans are okay with the concept by and large.

[Matthew]

3 minutes ago, User said:

You will need to explain this more. 

Is there some big Republican push to outlaw this that I missed?

 

No, republicans are all over the place with it. After an Alabama court used their states anti-abortion law to prosecute someone in an IVF clinic, the Alabama republicans scrambed to try to make an exception but that hasn't gone anywhere yet.

In June the US Senate started a bill to make IVF legal, but Senate republicans overwhelmingly rejected it.

Although around the same time, the SBC voted to stand against IVF:

 

[WestCanMan]

Pretty hard to start a fight about IVF imo. 

[User]

5 minutes ago, Matthew said:

the Alabama republicans scrambed to try to make an exception but that hasn't gone anywhere yet.

So, thanks for proving the point that Republicans are not working against IVF...

5 minutes ago, Matthew said:

In June the US Senate started a bill to make IVF legal, but Senate republicans overwhelmingly rejected it.

And?

Bills like these are political stunts. Also, the general theme from Republicans on these issues has been states rights since Roe V Wade was overturned. 

Also, that bill had a bunch of other junk in it... and guess what, Republicans tried to pass their own version of the bill and Democrats blocked it. 

Also, after Republicans blocked that bill, they all signed onto a statement affirming their support for IVF. 

I hope this helps! 

[Matthew]

1 hour ago, User said:

So, thanks for proving the point that Republicans are not working against IVF...

Yeah, I did that in the second sentence of the OP.

1 hour ago, User said:

Republicans blocked that bill, they all signed onto a statement affirming their support for IVF. 

I agree there is political gamemanship involved muddying the issue.

It sounds like you're confident though that republicans will take real action in favor of IVF. I guess we'll see.

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

Pretty hard to start a fight about IVF imo

Do you think the minority of hardline evangelicals within the party who oppose IVF will ultimately call the shots on this issue?

[User]

2 minutes ago, Matthew said:

It sounds like you're confident though that republicans will take real action in favor of IVF. I guess we'll see.

They don't need to. The status quo already favors IVF. 

It is not a matter of how confident I am or I guess we will see. I gave you concrete answers here. I gave you the party platform, I gave you examples of the party supporting IVF, and even you provided one. 

 

[eyeball]

5 hours ago, Hodad said:

They are fertilized eggs. That's a person in conservative politics. 

 

4 hours ago, gatomontes99 said:

The sperm is inserted, that doesn't guarantee fertilization.

It doesn't matter if every sperm is precious - the poor little ones that don't make it are no less a victim than an unloved egg.

All they want is a forever home.

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

Pretty hard to start a fight about IVF imo. 

Just watch...

[Matthew]

17 minutes ago, User said:

It is not a matter of how confident I am or I guess we will see. I gave you concrete answers here. I gave you the party platform, I gave you examples of the party supporting IVF, and even you provided one. 

Ok then. Should embryos created during IVF legally be considered children?

After further reading, it turns out that Alabama did in fact create a law that attempted to address the problem (see SB 159), which the governor signed into law.

However, the hospital in the alabama case has not resumed IVF procedures and other clinics in that state are sending their embryos to other states, because the new law still does not resolve the central problem. The Alabama court applied the emryos-are-children anti-abortion principle to IVF and the the new law does not change that stance, and in fact holds companies liable if their medical equipment is involved in the destruction of an embryo.

 

Edited August 15 by Matthew