The horrors of abortion which our governments support

[blackbird]

23 minutes ago, Five of swords said:

So...thou shalt not kill unless vietnam goes communist?

Nonsense!

[Guest]

6 hours ago, blackbird said:

support in certain situations.  That is not murder.  

How is abortion not suitable in some situations? IE rape?

6 hours ago, blackbird said:

There is no such thing as a moral right to kill a preborn baby.

There certainly is a legal one.

 

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

How is abortion not suitable in some situations? IE rape?

It is an unfortunate situation, but it would still not justify murdering a baby.  It is a human's life we are talking about.  Rape is a serious crime and should have serious consequences.  

 

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

8 hours ago, blackbird said:

There is no such thing as a moral right to kill a preborn baby.

There certainly is a legal one.

The whole point of the OP is that government laws and policies enabling abortion are wicked or evil.  Legality does not equate to what is right in God's sight in this subject.  Therefore saying it is legal is no argument.

Edited August 5, 2024 by blackbird

[Moonlight Graham]

8 hours ago, herbie said:

1. First it takes the ability to distinguish between a baby and a fetus.

2. Second it takes a lot of gall for a man to demand he rule on what a woman can do.

1.  When does a "fetus" magically become a "baby"?  Does the vaginal canal have a magic wand that bestows personhood on a fetus when it comes out?

2. What if some women are killing other individual humans because of the inconvenience of letting them live?

[Guest]

7 hours ago, blackbird said:

It is an unfortunate situation, but it would still not justify murdering a baby.

Its thinking like yours, that keeps some God fearing countries so backwards in policy.

IE rampant sexual abuse, rape, but a fear of confronting it.

A man is the last person that needs to be in charge with dictating what a woman can do with her body.

7 hours ago, blackbird said:

It is a human's life we are talking about.

Yet disregarding a rape victim. 

7 hours ago, blackbird said:

The whole point of the OP

Aren't you the OP? 

7 hours ago, blackbird said:

Legality does not equate to what is right in God's sight in this subject. 

Data and medical research > God.

Sorry.

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

8 hours ago, blackbird said:

It is a human's life we are talking about.

Yet disregarding a rape victim. 

Nonsense.  You can't undo a rape that has already happened by murdering the baby.  You have no right to do that.  "Thou shalt not kill".  Exodus ch20

 

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

8 hours ago, blackbird said:

The whole point of the OP

Aren't you the OP? 

The whole point is to prove that the government's laws or policies allowing abortion are depraved and evil.  That has been shown.  The fact you claim it is legal is therefore irrelevant to the subject.

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

8 hours ago, blackbird said:

Legality does not equate to what is right in God's sight in this subject. 

Data and medical research > God.

God is sovereign over the whole universe, completely righteous, and there is a judgment day coming.  Nobody can  fight against God and expect to win.  Many are called, but few are chosen.  It would be better to lose one's limbs or even be murdered as a pre-born baby in an abortion than to go into hell for eternity.

"9  The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: "  2 Peter 2:9  KJV

 

Edited August 5, 2024 by blackbird

[ExFlyer]

12 hours ago, Army Guy said:

I think any nation that goes to war is guilty of the same not just Israel but every nation on the planet as some time in their history....we could include Canada on that list....

I do think there is a huge difference between killing in a war and killing a fetus because teenagers were to stupid or lazy to use birth control...with no consequences, I mean all we really missing at this time is a drive through clinic, that you don't even have to get out of your car....I mean what damage could be done if the baby is carried to term , then given up for adoption, which has long waiting lists...it has economic bonuses as well we grow our population, provide good homes for all these children....the consequences is they carry that baby to term for 9 months...

I agree but what I do not agree with is some poster trying to differentiate between killing babies...be they fetus or 2 year old and justifying it. Saying killing a child is OK in war and then insinuating they are a victim of war is nonsensical. A child is not a combatant. In the case of backturd, he/she seems to insinuate the child is hamas and that is a consequence of war. A child has no political affiliation.

Espousing the bible anti abortion and dismissing the "Thou shalt not kill" scripture in one hand and then praising one nation killing kids with the other is BS and hyper hypocritical..

As for "teenagers being too lazy too stupid or lazy to use birth control". I think that teenagers are not true.  "the majority of women who had abortions (57%) were in their 20s, while about three-in-ten (31%) were in their 30s. Teens ages 13 to 19 accounted for 8% of those who had abortions, while women ages 40 to 44 accounted for about 4%."

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/03/25/what-the-data-says-about-abortion-in-the-us/

[CITIZEN_2015]

Abortion should remain legal up to a point where it is a fetus and part of woman's body (not sure how long after pregnancy. I leave it to experts). If a fetus is alive so is the egg and sperms are alive too. Life does not start when sperm enters the egg but when baby with brain and heartbeat is formed. After that (likely two to three months after pregnancy) killing the baby must be considered as murder.

[blackbird]

11 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Abortion should remain legal up to a point where it is a fetus and part of woman's body (not sure how long after pregnancy. I leave it to experts). If a fetus is alive so is the egg and sperms are alive too. Life does not start when sperm enters the egg but when baby with brain and heartbeat is formed. After that (likely two to three months after pregnancy) killing the baby must be considered as murder.

 

[CITIZEN_2015]

49 minutes ago, blackbird said:

 

As I said killing a baby must be punishable as murder. Are you saying that baby forms as soon as sperm enters the egg. If you say this then this is not science but fanatism.

[Five of swords]

15 hours ago, blackbird said:

Nonsense!

Okay so 'thou shalt not kill' is negotiable? It only applies to abortion? Is that what Moses said? Are we assuming the premise anyway that whatever Moses said is correct?

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Abortion should remain legal up to a point where it is a fetus and part of woman's body (not sure how long after pregnancy. I leave it to experts). If a fetus is alive so is the egg and sperms are alive too. Life does not start when sperm enters the egg but when baby with brain and heartbeat is formed. After that (likely two to three months after pregnancy) killing the baby must be considered as murder.

So, does that make masturbation murder??? LOL

[blackbird]

12 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

As I said killing a baby must be punishable as murder. Are you saying that baby forms as soon as sperm enters the egg. If you say this then this is not science but fanatism.

Human life begins at conception.   Is there some magic that makes it become a human at some particular time later?

[blackbird]

14 minutes ago, Five of swords said:

Okay so 'thou shalt not kill' is negotiable? It only applies to abortion? Is that what Moses said? Are we assuming the premise anyway that whatever Moses said is correct?

Human life is human life and protecting it is not negotiable.  Of course it applies to all human life, but there are exceptions for self defence or authorities maintaining law and order such a police and armed forces acting in defence of a country.

God spoke through Moses and other prophets in Holy Scripture.

Edited August 5, 2024 by blackbird

[blackbird]

15 minutes ago, Five of swords said:

It only applies to abortion? Is that what Moses said?

Not only abortion as I explained.  "Thou shalt not kill" is part of the ten commandments which Moses received from God.

[Five of swords]

Just now, blackbird said:

Human life is human life and protecting it is not negotiable.  Of course it applies to all human life, but there are exceptions for self defence or authorities maintaining law and order such a police and armed forces acting in defence of a country.

Having an unwanted child is far more of an imposition on a mother than Iran attacking Israel would be. It doesn't make any sense what your excuse is for shunning the killing of one person but not the other. Just isn't internally consistent.

[blackbird]

Just now, Five of swords said:

Having an unwanted child is far more of an imposition on a mother than Iran attacking Israel would be. It doesn't make any sense what your excuse is for shunning the killing of one person but not the other. Just isn't internally consistent.

I am not getting into playing a game of comparing what is going on in the world.  Just letting you know what God says in the Holy Scriptures.  If a mother doesn't want a baby, she should give it up for adoption.  There are lots of people who can't have children and looking to adopt a child.  Adoption is very common.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, blackbird said:

You can't undo a rape that has already happened by murdering the baby. 

You forcing or shaming the woman into having the child, literally adds to the trauma of that very rape.

You clearly have never met a rape or molestation victim, if you feel having the baby is in her best interests.

5 hours ago, blackbird said:

That has been shown. 

Your opinion has been shown. Nothing more.

Its like me posting a religious article from a developing country that practices strict sharia law, and stating that a woman exposing her stomach must be met with 100 lashes from dried goat skin.

Certainly factual within the limits of your beliefs and country, but that stops dead in its tracks the moment you step foot in a western and free society.

5 hours ago, blackbird said:

go into hell for eternity

You clearly haven't seen east side downtown Vancouver. 

I think many would take their chances.

You're precisely why many churches find themselves losing attendees.

My wife is a born again Christian and God fearing. She is a live and let live type of person, and strongly believes that religion is a choice. Her daughter also happens to be gay, furthering the importance of adaptability to the realities that we all face.

You can't force feed your rigid and antiquated beliefs onto others. 

You will be met by heavy resistance in a free society, especially if there is heavy handed evidence refuting your claims.

[Five of swords]

14 minutes ago, blackbird said:

I am not getting into playing a game of comparing what is going on in the world.  Just letting you know what God says in the Holy Scriptures.  If a mother doesn't want a baby, she should give it up for adoption.  There are lots of people who can't have children and looking to adopt a child.  Adoption is very common.

No, it isn't very common because very few people can actually afford to raise a child. Many of the kids just wind up living with a pedophile who systematically rapes them, often because the pedophile has been informed by 1960s intellectuals that sexual repression is the source of fascism. Our economy is more focused on killing random people across the pacific ocean who are inconvenient for Israel than it is maintaining the possibility for replacement level childbirth. And this is by design. And the state that has designed the society that way has no justification for making it more difficult for people to just try their best to enjoy their individual life as difficult as it is.

Edited August 5, 2024 by Five of swords

[ExFlyer]

27 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Not only abortion as I explained.  "Thou shalt not kill" is part of the ten commandments which Moses received from God.

So, God spoke to Moses...in the old testament...and was speaking to the Jewish peoples?

So, then what Israel is doing to the Palestinians with rockets, bombs, drones, rifles is what?? Killing?? Or culling?

 

  13 minutes ago, blackbird said:

"I am not getting into playing a game of comparing what is going on in the world.  Just letting you know what God says in the Holy Scriptures.  If a mother doesn't want a baby, she should give it up for adoption.  There are lots of people who can't have children and looking to adopt a child.  Adoption is very common."

Where in the hoily scripts does it say that???

Edited August 5, 2024 by ExFlyer

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, blackbird said:

If a mother doesn't want a baby, she should give it up for adoption.  There are lots of people who

Sorry, but if am a woman, and I just got pregnant, you literally have 0% say if what I did with it. Especially so, if am following laws.

If my wife got pregnant and I pulled out a coat hanger and told her to fix the problem, she would probably drive it into my skull, and exclaim: "Fixed!"

You clearly haven't had a woman in a long time, or live in a country where they have no rights.

You are incredibly out of touch.

[Five of swords]

49 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Sorry, but if am a woman, and I just got pregnant, you literally have 0% say if what I did with it. Especially so, if am following laws.

If my wife got pregnant and I pulled out a coat hanger and told her to fix the problem, she would probably drive it into my skull, and exclaim: "Fixed!"

You clearly haven't had a woman in a long time, or live in a country where they have no rights.

You are incredibly out of touch.

Well...based on your argument there is am easy fix, lol. Just make it illegal. Then we would have a lot more than 0% say.

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

Sorry, but if am a woman, and I just got pregnant, you literally have 0% say if what I did with it. Especially so, if am following laws.

If my wife got pregnant and I pulled out a coat hanger and told her to fix the problem, she would probably drive it into my skull, and exclaim: "Fixed!"

You clearly haven't had a woman in a long time, or live in a country where they have no rights.

You are incredibly out of touch.

You entirely miss the point.  I realize the law enables a pregnant women to get an abortion.

My point is the law is wrong and evil.

The discussion is not whether she can go ahead and have an abortion.  Obviously under the law she can.

My point is that it is the wrong decision.  It is contrary to God's inspired word.  There should be no such thing going on.

I realize I have no say other than what I post on this forum.  I post what I believe to be the Biblical truth.  That is the right path to follow.  Anyone can ignore that and do their own thing.  But there are consequences such as killing an innocent baby to begin with.  Then the woman may have to live with the guilt of that the rest of her life.  That may be a painful thing for some women. 

There is also the gospel in the New Testament.  She can become a Christian and through God's mercy and grace, obtain forgiveness.

The word "rights" does not necessarily cover everything moral and righteous as a country's laws may be immoral as Canada's are.  Therefore some things are left to the individual to understand and do or not do.  Just because one has the right to do something under the law doesn't mean it is the moral or righteous thing to do.  Thinking that because the law allows something, doesn't mean it is the right thing to do.  That idea is a deadly interpretation of the law.

She may become a Christian and find forgiveness through the grace of God.

Edited August 5, 2024 by blackbird

[herbie]

14 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

When does a "fetus" magically become a "baby"?

It's not f*cking magic, humans are mammals.
When it is born. That means leaves the mother's body, then it's a baby. This is the accepted and legal definition. So there are no pre-born babies. It's as bullshit a term as pro-life is.

Too bad you don't "like it". You're a man, so if you don't believe in abortion don't have one.

[Army Guy]

6 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

I agree but what I do not agree with is some poster trying to differentiate between killing babies...be they fetus or 2 year old and justifying it. Saying killing a child is OK in war and then insinuating they are a victim of war is nonsensical. A child is not a combatant. In the case of backturd, he/she seems to insinuate the child is hamas and that is a consequence of war. A child has no political affiliation.

Espousing the bible anti abortion and dismissing the "Thou shalt not kill" scripture in one hand and then praising one nation killing kids with the other is BS and hyper hypocritical..

As for "teenagers being too lazy too stupid or lazy to use birth control". I think that teenagers are not true.  "the majority of women who had abortions (57%) were in their 20s, while about three-in-ten (31%) were in their 30s. Teens ages 13 to 19 accounted for 8% of those who had abortions, while women ages 40 to 44 accounted for about 4%."

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/03/25/what-the-data-says-about-abortion-in-the-us/

There really no justification for any of it...period...in war or in a hospital, unless it was due to rape, or some medical emergency...it has become pretty normal event to kill civilians in war, and in civilian life...with todays media coverage we see it in almost every headline....people think it is normal...except when you want to discuss abortion then it is a no go topic....no talking 

and your right i should have mentioned ALL women, forgetting to take birth control or just being to lazy to do anything about it is a poor excuse....with all the preventable medication on the market give me a break...kind of like those people   that gets caught DUI...