blackbird Posted July 30 Author Report Share Posted July 30 On 7/22/2024 at 5:48 PM, Michael Hardner said: Low information discussion... There is a lot of information on the subject if you cared to find it. Also for Eyeball although I doubt if he cares. This is a tiny piece of the Human Rights Report on China for 2023 by the U.S. Department of State. "Former prisoners and detainees have reported they were beaten, raped, subjected to electric shock, forced to sit on stools for hours on end, hung by the wrists, deprived of sleep, force-fed, forced to take medication against their will, and otherwise subjected to physical and psychological abuse. Although prison authorities abused ordinary prisoners, they reportedly singled out political and religious dissidents for particularly harsh treatment." China (Includes Hong Kong, Macau, and Tibet) - United States Department of State Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted July 30 Author Report Share Posted July 30 On 7/22/2024 at 1:03 PM, herbie said: She's trying to normalize relations. That's her job. Seriously? Do you think Canada should be trying to "normalize relations" with such a brutal regime? How is that going to help the victims of their brutality and violations of human rights? China (Includes Hong Kong, Macau, and Tibet) - United States Department of State Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted July 30 Author Report Share Posted July 30 (edited) On 7/22/2024 at 6:57 PM, eyeball said: So does warning people about the consequences and talking about no truck nor trade with China or any dictator for that matter. Doing that just a few short decades ago only got you labeled and cancelled as an anti-capitalist commie/Nazi around these parts. The main and IMO more telling thing that never changes with you people is your fetish for using the same terms to label and cancel others. Anyway, I've been extremely skeptical about the notion that our wheeling and dealing with dictatorships would make them more like us for years and have been warning the opposite is far more likely. It's hilariously ironic that it's you people who are now convinced we're already being ruled by fascists and commies. Not as many as having to accommodate and suffer you exceedingly stupid stupid people. It never dawned on me that one of consequences of truckin' and tradin' would be even stupider right wing conservatives. The topic is Canada sending our Minister of Foreign Affairs to China presumably to try to improve foreign relations with China which means the CCP. It appears they know nothing about the brutality of what is going on or choose to ignore it. Yet you post insulting comments toward myself and conservatives, and which have absolutely nothing to do with the topic. You need to take a break and get help. Edited July 30 by blackbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted July 30 Author Report Share Posted July 30 On 7/22/2024 at 5:48 PM, Michael Hardner said: Low information discussion... I started this subject with a constructive post, but it is being abused by the low level insulting posters. And you give a uptick to Eyeball's insulting posts. You are stooping to his level of throwing insults on every posting. I thought you had more integrity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbie Posted July 30 Report Share Posted July 30 Another let's do nothing or make things worse suggestion? The usual solution you propose for everything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted July 30 Report Share Posted July 30 7 hours ago, blackbird said: There is a lot of information on the subject if you cared to find it. But it's not going to be enough information to fully inform. The full details and strategies at play are kept from us. Your desire to break this down to a simple moral condemnation isn't applicable, if you look at the history of international relations. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted July 30 Report Share Posted July 30 7 hours ago, blackbird said: I started this subject with a constructive post, but it is being abused by the low level insulting posters. And you give a uptick to Eyeball's insulting posts. You are stooping to his level of throwing insults on every posting. I thought you had more integrity. I appreciate that you're trying to be serious. As such, I removed the like from The eyeball post that had the insults. Not sure if I saw it the first time. But I do ask you to reflect on his point that comparing current leaders to monsters like Stalin, Hitler etc. I don't even like comparisons of trump to Hitler. It might be arguable that his tactics are similar politically to those early days, but the comparison brings forward something else. Mainly, an idea that he will attempt to imitate Hitler the autocrat. I do welcome any attempt for people to talk to each other and reclaim politics... Push back the culture wars and try to find common ground. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted July 30 Author Report Share Posted July 30 2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: But I do ask you to reflect on his point that comparing current leaders to monsters like Stalin, Hitler etc. No, you are the one falsely accusing me of comparing current leaders to monsters like Stalin, Hitler. You got that idea from Eyeball's posts but never actually read mine. I never made any such comparisons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted July 30 Report Share Posted July 30 3 minutes ago, blackbird said: I never made any such comparisons. Hmmmm... well my mistake... and @eyeball's too I suppose... Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted July 30 Report Share Posted July 30 (edited) 5 minutes ago, blackbird said: I never made any such comparisons. That search took <10 seconds... Ok you did NOT call Singh a Stalinist but you called him a Marxist. Yes, that is a stupid comparison. I wouldn't say you are a stupid person but as Darth Vader said in Sleepless in Seattle "Stupid is as stupid does..." Edited July 30 by Michael Hardner Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted July 30 Author Report Share Posted July 30 5 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: Hmmmm... well my mistake... and @eyeball's too I suppose... Yes, thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted July 30 Report Share Posted July 30 Just now, blackbird said: Yes, thank you. Read my next post now 😐 Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted July 30 Report Share Posted July 30 On 7/22/2024 at 7:36 PM, blackbird said: Spoken like a good leftist/liberal who doesn't know what is going on in the world or likes authoritarian Communist countries. Too bad you don't understand how they are meddling with Canada's political system, interfering with elections, and spreading their tentacles through western democracies to undermine them. Dealing with the Devil has its consequences. There's also this. I don't like his trashy copy-pasted article, so (by default) I like authoritarian communist countries. With logic like that, we don't have to prevaricate on labels. This is a low-intelligence poster. Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he does for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted July 30 Author Report Share Posted July 30 5 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: That search took <10 seconds... Ok you did NOT call Singh a Stalinist but you called him a Marxist. Yes, that is a stupid comparison. I wouldn't say you are a stupid person but as Darth Vader said in Sleepless in Seattle "Stupid is as stupid does..." What I said was right on. Yes he leans heavily in his comments toward Marxism. Therefore it is fair to say he is a Marxist. He obviously is dead against our free enterprise - Capitalist system. He constantly rants against corporations and their executives incomes. The only alternative to that is some form of state controlled Marxism. He also praised the Communist revolution in Cuba saying it helped the people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted July 30 Author Report Share Posted July 30 2 minutes ago, Moonbox said: There's also this. I don't like his trashy copy-pasted article, so (by default) I like authoritarian communist countries. With logic like that, we don't have to prevaricate on labels. This is a low-intelligence poster. Sorry, you are wrong. Did you actually read the article I posted as the OP? Everything in it is factual and true. You are way off base. It is critical of Minister Joly, but for good reasons which it states clearly. I am not sure how you find fault with that. Just total denial I guess of the facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted July 30 Report Share Posted July 30 2 minutes ago, blackbird said: What I said was right on. Yes he leans heavily in his comments toward Marxism. Therefore it is fair to say he is a Marxist. He obviously is dead against our free enterprise - Capitalist system. He constantly rants against corporations and their executives incomes. The only alternative to that is some form of state controlled Marxism. He also praised the Communist revolution in Cuba saying it helped the people. Well you are already dialing it back, saying "leans heavily" vs calling him an actual Marxist. No, it's not fair. It's like me calling you a religio-fascist. It's arguable, perhaps, but not fair. Be a more serious poster and then I'll pay more attention to you. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted July 30 Author Report Share Posted July 30 1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said: Well you are already dialing it back, saying "leans heavily" vs calling him an actual Marxist. No, it's not fair. It's like me calling you a religio-fascist. It's arguable, perhaps, but not fair. Be a more serious poster and then I'll pay more attention to you. No, I didn't "dial back". Leaning toward Marxism as evidence he is some kind of Marxist is not dialing back. There are many shades of Marxist ideology. What he says just gives me the impression he is somewhat of a Marxist but not to the extent others have been in history. His ideas seem to support it to some degree. I explained how he leans that way with his frequent anti-corporation comments. That should tell you something. As far as being a serious poster, I think I already am a serious poster. The problem is we have a different view. That's why we don't see eye-to-eye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted July 30 Report Share Posted July 30 4 minutes ago, blackbird said: 1. There are many shades of Marxist ideology. 2. I explained how he leans that way with his frequent anti-corporation comments. That should tell you something. 3. As far as being a serious poster, I think I already am a serious poster. The problem is we have a different view. That's why we don't see eye-to-eye. 1. I'm thinking of something that comes out of the back of a horse here... if you call a pro capitalist politician a Marxist then everything is everything. 2. And lots of Trump supporters make anti-corporate comments too. Are they Marxist ? 3. No, you aren't interested in accepting the basic rules of political discussion. You're on the edge of being serious but not qutie there. That's enough for now... Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted July 30 Author Report Share Posted July 30 2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: 1. I'm thinking of something that comes out of the back of a horse here... if you call a pro capitalist politician a Marxist then everything is everything. 2. And lots of Trump supporters make anti-corporate comments too. Are they Marxist ? 3. No, you aren't interested in accepting the basic rules of political discussion. You're on the edge of being serious but not qutie there. That's enough for now... Do you seriously think he is a "pro-capitalist" politician? His remarks don't seem to say that. He comes across as a politician who would like to take over control of corporations or take a large chunk of their profits, which is purely anti-capitalism. They would shut down and the shareholders would take their investments to some other country. Anyway, carry on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted July 30 Report Share Posted July 30 13 minutes ago, blackbird said: Do you seriously think he is a "pro-capitalist" politician? His remarks don't seem to say that. Yes. The NDP used to have a standing motion to eliminate private ownership of manufacturing corporations. That is leftism... Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted July 30 Report Share Posted July 30 14 hours ago, blackbird said: The topic is Canada sending our Minister of Foreign Affairs to China presumably to try to improve foreign relations with China which means the CCP. It appears they know nothing about the brutality of what is going on or choose to ignore it. As I was saying decades ago. 14 hours ago, blackbird said: Yet you post insulting comments toward myself and conservatives, and which have absolutely nothing to do with the topic. You need to take a break and get help. I was merely pointing out what usually happened when anyone prescribed no truck nor trade with China 25 years ago, like you are now. It's insulting listening to you associate Canada's acceptance of China's brutality with Canada's lefties in light of the long history of acceptance coming from Canada's right wingers. But like I said it's good to see you people finally coming around. If you could just drop your stupid need to be so partisan about everything it might be easier to believe you mean it. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted July 30 Report Share Posted July 30 6 minutes ago, eyeball said: It's insulting listening to you associate Canada's acceptance of China's brutality with Canada's lefties in light of the long history of acceptance coming from Canada's right wingers. But like I said it's good to see you people finally coming around. If you could just drop your stupid need to be so partisan about everything it might be easier to believe you mean it. You know, we COULD say that politicians like money more than human lives and agree to call it a day. Lots of evidence on that one... Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted July 30 Report Share Posted July 30 3 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: You know, we COULD say that politicians like money more than human lives and agree to call it a day. Lots of evidence on that one... Maybe once partisans stop adoring politicians the same way but I'm not holding my breath. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted July 30 Report Share Posted July 30 4 hours ago, blackbird said: Sorry, you are wrong. Did you actually read the article I posted as the OP? Yes, that's how I knew that it was nothing more than a low-brow opinion piece. 4 hours ago, blackbird said: Everything in it is factual and true. You are way off base. It is critical of Minister Joly, but for good reasons which it states clearly. What were the specific criticisms against Minister Joly? Go back to the article and post it here. 🙄 Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he does for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbie Posted July 30 Report Share Posted July 30 You know how a few little things get left out. How the average Chinese doesn't give a flying you know what that the govt is 'communist' when they're so much better off than before and everyday life is improving. And how the "communists" produced billionaires and huge global corporations. How Vietnam is "communist" but they can own their own shops and businesses and form corporations and for the first time in generations don't have bombs exploding all around them? How they live far better under communism than they did under the corruption of S Vietnam? In neither place is 'voting' for this jerk or that jerk a major life concern? Just as it never was in either country. And perhaps one should just mention in passing those fraudulent democracies like Iran, Venezuela, Haiti, etc. that are as bad, if not worse than China. And I'm still ROTFL at your Singh = Marxist lunacy. I repeat Singh is Jack Layton with 40% less sugar. That's why he didn't taste as good to a lot of voters. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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