Lies?

[Nationalist]

After Thursday night's exhibition, the Democrats have been harping that Trump lied a lot in that debate. Well...his claim that he never had sex with Stormy Daniel's is likely a lie. A lie almost every married man would tell...but a lie all the same.

To even the playing field, Brandon's claim that no service people have died under his term is a bald faced lie. A gross lie the shows Brandon's complete lack of memory and empathy...and honor.

What other lies were told and, were they really lies and what are the consequences of said lies?

Go.

 

[gatomontes99]

Jobs created

Immigration is slower than under Trump

 

 

[reason10]

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

After Thursday night's exhibition, the Democrats have been harping that Trump lied a lot in that debate. Well...his claim that he never had sex with Stormy Daniel's is likely a lie. A lie almost every married man would tell...but a lie all the same.

To even the playing field, Brandon's claim that no service people have died under his term is a bald faced lie. A gross lie the shows Brandon's complete lack of memory and empathy...and honor.

What other lies were told and, were they really lies and what are the consequences of said lies?

Go.

 

There is no PROOF that Trump banged that skanky porn star. 

EVERYTHING Trump said about UNELECTED JOE is a fact.

The only LIAR was Joe.

[Nationalist]

15 minutes ago, reason10 said:

There is no PROOF that Trump banged that skanky porn star. 

EVERYTHING Trump said about UNELECTED JOE is a fact.

The only LIAR was Joe.

Ok...none of us know for sure if he shtooped Daniels. But that he made her sign an NDA and paid her for silence, strongly suggests the shtooping.

My question is, which is worse? Lying about shtooping a porn star, or lying about no military dying under Brandon's term?

[gatomontes99]

18 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Ok...none of us know for sure if he shtooped Daniels. But that he made her sign an NDA and paid her for silence, strongly suggests the shtooping.

My question is, which is worse? Lying about shtooping a porn star, or lying about no military dying under Brandon's term?

The later for sure. Lying about extra marital sex is a given. Lying about whether or not someone died as a result of your command is disgraceful.

 

[Nationalist]

5 minutes ago, gatomontes99 said:

The later for sure. Lying about extra marital sex is a given. Lying about whether or not someone died as a result of your command is disgraceful.

 

I would have to agree.

Now...did either lie about the border or the economy?

[robosmith]

1 hour ago, reason10 said:

There is no PROOF that Trump banged that skanky porn star. 

EVERYTHING Trump said about UNELECTED JOE is a fact.

The only LIAR was Joe.

You had NO CREDIBILITY HERE before ^this post and now you have EVEN LESS. LMAO

23 minutes ago, gatomontes99 said:

The later for sure. Lying about extra marital sex is a given. Lying about whether or not someone died as a result of your command is disgraceful.

Trump is every bit as responsible for those 13 deaths and ISIS is totally responsible. Duh

BTW, the general in charge has taken full responsibility since HE PLANNED IT.

[User]

5 minutes ago, robosmith said:

You had NO CREDIBILITY HERE before ^this post and now you have EVEN LESS. LMAO

You are the Pot calling the Kettle black...

5 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Trump is every bit as responsible for those 13 deaths and ISIS is totally responsible. Duh

BTW, the general in charge has taken full responsibility since HE PLANNED IT.

This is beyond stupid. No, Trump is not responsible for those deaths. He was not President, he had nothing to do with the way Biden orchestrated that withdrawal. 

How... how did the general in charge take full responsibility? Did he merely utter the words or did he actually face some kind of real consequences?

 

[robosmith]

3 minutes ago, User said:

You are the Pot calling the Kettle black...

You are a parrot with no mind of your own.

3 minutes ago, User said:

This is beyond stupid. No, Trump is not responsible for those deaths. He was not President, he had nothing to do with the way Biden orchestrated that withdrawal. 

How... how did the general in charge take full responsibility? Did he merely utter the words or did he actually face some kind of real consequences?

His words are ENOUGH, dumbass. Making mistakes is NOT dereliction of duty. Duh

[User]

3 minutes ago, robosmith said:

You are a parrot with no mind of your own.

Which is why you have run away from almost every thread we have engaged each other in... Once I get past the surface level deep talking points, you got nothing. 

3 minutes ago, robosmith said:

His words are ENOUGH, dumbass. Making mistakes is NOT dereliction of duty. Duh

LOL, his words are enough?

That is not taking responsibility. That is a hollow utterance that took him zero effort. Biden signed off on these plans, Biden overseen them... then it was Biden who authorized blowing up a family trying to claim they got the terrorists that killed our men. 

 

[West]

4 hours ago, Nationalist said:

After Thursday night's exhibition, the Democrats have been harping that Trump lied a lot in that debate. Well...his claim that he never had sex with Stormy Daniel's is likely a lie. A lie almost every married man would tell...but a lie all the same.

To even the playing field, Brandon's claim that no service people have died under his term is a bald faced lie. A gross lie the shows Brandon's complete lack of memory and empathy...and honor.

What other lies were told and, were they really lies and what are the consequences of said lies?

Go.

 

In fact Biden lied on 15 topics that night

[User]

Trump exaggerates a lot. He uses a lot of hyperbole. Sure, he does lie, he bends the truth, but the bulk of what gets labeled "lies" are clearly just exaggerations with more than a grain of truth behind them. 

Lets not pretend Biden was not repeatedly lying either though. 

[Nationalist]

2 minutes ago, User said:

Trump exaggerates a lot. He uses a lot of hyperbole. Sure, he does lie, he bends the truth, but the bulk of what gets labeled "lies" are clearly just exaggerations with more than a grain of truth behind them. 

Lets not pretend Biden was not repeatedly lying either though. 

Yup. Quite true. What the media have done is exaggerate as much as Trump, or more, in calling obvious off the cuff exaggerations by Trump...lies.

That's how the media paints Trump. It not fair or honest but...TDS.

Unfortunately the public has heard it all before and know it's bullshit now. Poor Democrats.

They're running out of weapons.

[West]

3 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Yup. Quite true. What the media have done is exaggerate as much as Trump, or more, in calling obvious off the cuff exaggerations by Trump...lies.

That's how the media paints Trump. It not fair or honest but...TDS.

Unfortunately the public has heard it all before and know it's bullshit now. Poor Democrats.

They're running out of weapons.

He speaks like the common man. 

[robosmith]

Factchecked: Trump and Biden’s presidential debate claims

 

Quote

Moderators for CNN’s debate took a hands-off approach, letting lies and half-truths remain unchallenged. Here are the facts on some of the false claims

Moderators in the first presidential debate in 2024 took a completely hands-off approach to factchecking the candidates, letting lies and half-truths, most frequently from Donald Trump, remain unchallenged.

The former president frequently ignored the questions posed by CNN moderators Jake Tapper and Dana Bash, instead talking about whatever he wanted. In a few instances, they reiterated the question and gave Trump a chance to answer it again.

Joe Biden sometimes pushed back on Trump’s claims, and vice versa, though not always with specificity beyond saying the other was lying.

The light moderation left lingering lies, though the network said before the debate that the moderators wouldn’t intercede.

“Obviously, if there is some egregious fact that needs to be checked or the record needs to be made clear, Jake and Dana can do that,” David Chalian, CNN’s political director, told the Associated Press before the debate. “But that’s not their role. They are not here to participate in this debate. They are here to facilitate a debate between Trump and Biden.”

Here are the facts on some of the false claims offered during Thursday’s debate.

Abortion

The claim: Trump says Democrats support abortion until birth and that “everybody” wanted to overturn Roe v Wade.

The facts: Later abortions are a common line of attack among Republicans – but it’s based on a myth. Less than 1% of abortions in the US are performed at or past 21 weeks, largely because of fetal abnormalities or lack of access to care earlier in pregnancy.

And Roe remained popular throughout the half-century it was in effect. Some anti-abortion activists have also argued that the federal government can use an existing law to implement a federal ban on abortion. The US supreme court has also dealt with two abortion cases so far this year – evidence that the issue is far from settled at the national level.

The environment

The claim: Trump had “the best environmental numbers ever”.

The facts: It’s not clear what “environmental numbers” Trump is referring to, making it impossible to factcheck. But the Guardian has compiled 75 ways Trump made the country dirtier and the climate warmer.

Prescription drug reform

The claim: Biden oversold his prescription drug reforms.

The facts: Biden said seniors’ out-of-pocket costs were capped at $200, but it’s $2,000. The cap on insulin costs out of pocket are $35 a month, more than the $15 Biden claimed.

The border

The claim: Trump’s border was the most secure in history.

The facts: Trump said that when he left the presidency, the US had the most secure border in history, and later said “hardly” anyone was coming through.

 

While migrant apprehensions have surged under Biden, the increases began in 2020, during Trump’s presidency. The reasons people were seeking to migrate include economic stress caused by the pandemic and natural disasters, as well as long-running issues including violence and political instability.

The economy

The claim: Biden said the economy had “collapsed” and there were no jobs when Trump left office.

The facts: That’s a bit misleading – employment rates began to tick up pretty quickly after an initial dip at the beginning of the pandemic, before Biden took office.

January 6

The claim: Trump deflected a question about the January 6 insurrection, blaming Nancy Pelosi for turning down a chance to deploy the national guard.

The facts: This is false. There is no evidence Pelosi got an offer to deploy national guard troops, and even if she did, she wouldn’t have the power to turn it down. The president, defense secretary and army secretary have command of the Washington DC national guard.

Tax cuts

The claim: Trump claimed his tax cuts were the largest in history and that his administration had the greatest economy in history.

The facts: His tax cut was the fourth-largest since 1940, according to PolitiFact. According to the non-profit Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget’s recent report, Trump created about twice as much debt ($8.4tn) as Biden ($4.3tn). Before the pandemic hit, economic growth during his presidency averaged at about 2.7% – that’s good but not as good as the 4% average growth during Bill Clinton’s administration. Unemployment before the pandemic was as low as 3.5% – again, not as low as during Clinton’s presidency.

‘Superpredators’

The claim: Trump said that Biden called Black Americans “superpredators”.

The facts: The superpredator theory in the 1990s suggested that a growing number of unusually violent young people, especially Black boys, posed a threat to the country. The theory capitalized on racialized fear and was used to encourage policies that led to the disproportionate incarceration of Black youth. There is no evidence Biden used the phrase or ascribed to the theory behind it.

However, Biden’s endorsement of the 1994 crime bill has justifiably come under scrutiny. Biden has defended the bill, and said that aspects of it were wrongly implemented.

 

57 minutes ago, West said:

In fact Biden lied on 15 topics that night

It's NOT A FACT until YOU PROVE IT. So far: BUPKIS

[robosmith]

Trump Just Revealed How He’ll Attack Biden at Debate—and It’s Vile

Quote

“You can’t say you weren’t warned: At the upcoming presidential debate on June 27, Donald Trump plans to highlight a handful of horrific murders—allegedly by undocumented migrants—and blame them on President Biden. We know this because Trump told us so right on his Truth Social feed.”

Said Trump: “We have a new Biden Migrant Killing—it’s only going to get worse, and it’s all Crooked Joe Biden’s fault. I look forward to seeing him at the Fake debate on Thursday. Let him explain why he has allowed MILLIONS of people to come into our Country illegally!” 

AKA, MORE Trump LIES.

[Nationalist]

10 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Trump Just Revealed How He’ll Attack Biden at Debate—and It’s Vile

AKA, MORE Trump LIES.

Lol...

[gatomontes99]

36 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Trump Just Revealed How He’ll Attack Biden at Debate—and It’s Vile

AKA, MORE Trump LIES.

What lie?

[CdnFox]

6 hours ago, Nationalist said:

After Thursday night's exhibition, the Democrats have been harping that Trump lied a lot in that debate. Well...his claim that he never had sex with Stormy Daniel's is likely a lie. A lie almost every married man would tell...but a lie all the same.

To even the playing field, Brandon's claim that no service people have died under his term is a bald faced lie. A gross lie the shows Brandon's complete lack of memory and empathy...and honor.

What other lies were told and, were they really lies and what are the consequences of said lies?

Go.

 

He lied that trump said there'd be a bloodbath on the streets if biden won. (said auto industry),  he lied that they finally beat medicare (actually that was just confusing more than a lie. You did what now?)  He definitely lied when he said the only reason he ran for president was because he saw trump was and thought 'gosh i have to beat that guy for the good of the nation",   and i suspect he lied when he said  "Habadasharbobmemmeok."    but i can't prove that. 

[CdnFox]

35 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

 

Quote

 

  46 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Trump Just Revealed How He’ll Attack Biden at Debate—and It’s Vile

AKA, MORE Trump LIES.

 

 

Lol...

You know - sometimes i wonder if a fish knows he's bitten a hook and someone is pulling on a line when he gets caught or just doesn't understand what's happening to him and can't figure it out.  

Then i met robo.  mystery solved. . 

[West]

5 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

He lied that trump said there'd be a bloodbath on the streets if biden won. (said auto industry),  he lied that they finally beat medicare (actually that was just confusing more than a lie. You did what now?)  He definitely lied when he said the only reason he ran for president was because he saw trump was and thought 'gosh i have to beat that guy for the good of the nation",   and i suspect he lied when he said  "Habadasharbobmemmeok."    but i can't prove that. 

I'm not sure if the intent was there with all the fibs JB told at the debate to outright accuse him of lying. It could just be that he has dementia and can't remember things one day to the next..

Either way what he says shouldn't be taken serious and treated as babble

[robosmith]

2024 presidential debate fact-check: How accurate were Joe Biden, Donald Trump?

Enough unsubstantiated OPINIONS from right wing partisan HACKS here.

 

Quote

Immigration 

Trump: Biden "allowed millions of people to come in here from prisons, jails and mental institutions."

Pants on Fire! Immigration officials arrested about 103,700 noncitizens with criminal convictions (whether in the U.S. or abroad) from fiscal years 2021 to 2024, federal data shows. That accounts for people stopped at and between ports of entry.

Not everyone was let in. The term "noncitizens" includes people who may have had legal immigration status in the U.S. but were not U.S. citizens.

The data reflects the people that the federal government knows about, but it’s inexhaustive. However, immigration experts said despite the data’s limitations, there is no evidence to support Trump’s statement.

Biden: "I've changed (the law) in the way that now you're in a situation where there are 40% fewer people coming across the border illegally."

Mostly True. The Department of Homeland Security announced that illegal immigration encounters dropped by 40%, to fewer than 2,400 each day, in the weeks after Biden announced a policy largely barring asylum access for people entering the U.S. at the southern border. The policy was announced June 4.

But immigration experts caution that it’s difficult to pinpoint a single reason for any change in border crossings. For example, other factors, such as hot weather, can affect migration patterns.

Since the policy was announced only a few weeks ago, it’s unclear whether the drop in illegal immigration will continue. 

Colleen Putzel-Kavanaugh, associate policy analyst at the Migration Policy Institute, told PolitiFact the policy could have a short-term deterrent effect. But Adam Isacson, defense oversight director at the Washington Office on Latin America, a research group, told PolitiFact, that no crackdown in the past decade has had a lasting impact.  

Trump: "We had the safest border in the history of our country."

Mostly False. Illegal immigration between ports of entry at the U.S. southern border dropped in 2017,  Trump’s first year in office, compared with previous years. Apprehensions then rose, and dropped again in 2020. When the COVID-19 pandemic started, immigration dropped drastically worldwide as governments enacted policies limiting people’s movement.

In the months before Trump left office, illegal immigration was rising again. A spike in migrants, especially unaccompanied minors, started in the spring 2020 during the Trump administration and generally continued to climb each month.

Illegal immigration during Trump’s administration was higher than under both of former President Barack Obama’s terms. 

Biden: While talking about a bipartisan border bill, "by the way, the Border Patrol endorsed me, endorsed my position."

Half True. The National Border Patrol Council — the U.S. Border Patrol’s union endorsed a bipartisan border security bill in February. But it didn’t endorse Biden.

Here's what Brandon Judd, the union’s president, said about the bill in February:

"While not perfect, the Border Act of 2024 is a step in the right direction and is far better than the current status quo. This is why the National Border Patrol Council endorses this bill and hopes for its quick passage."

Biden also supported the bill and said he would sign it into law if it passed. The bill failed in the Senate on a 49-50 vote.

However, Judd and the Border Patrol union have been critical of Biden and his immigration policies and endorsed Trump in the 2020 election.

"To be clear, we never have and never will endorse Biden," the National Border Patrol Council said in an X post during the debate.

Trump: Biden allowed in "18 million people."

False. Immigration officials have encountered immigrants illegally crossing the border 9.7 million times under Biden’s presidency. When accounting for "got aways" — people who aren’t stopped by border officials — the number rises to about 11.4 million. 

But encounters don’t mean admissions. Encounters represent events, so one person who tried to cross the border twice counts for two encounters. Also, not everyone encountered is let in. Many encounters result in deportations. The Department of Homeland Security estimates about 4 million encounters have led to expulsions or removals.

Abortion

Trump: "The problem (Democrats) have is they're radical, because they will take the life of a child in the eighth month, the ninth month, and even after birth."

False. Willfully terminating a newborn’s life is infanticide and is illegal in every U.S. state. 

Most elected Democrats who have spoken publicly about this have said they support abortion under Roe v. Wade’s standard, which provided abortion access up to fetal viability. This is typically around 24 weeks of pregnancy, when the fetus can survive outside of the womb. Many of these Democrats have also said they support abortions past this point if the treating physician deems it necessary.

Medical experts say situations resulting in fetal death in the third trimester are rare — less than 1% of abortions in the U.S. occur after 21 weeks — and typically involve fatal fetal anomalies or life-threatening emergencies affecting the pregnant woman. For fetuses with very short life expectancies, doctors may induce labor and offer palliative care. Some families choose this option when facing diagnoses that limit their babies’ survival to minutes or days after delivery.

Some Republicans who have made claims similar to Trump’s point to Democratic support of the Women’s Health Protection Act of 2022, citing the bill’s provisions that say providers and patients have the right to perform and receive abortion services without certain limitations or requirements that would impede access. Anti-abortion advocates say the provisions in the bill, which failed to advance 49-51, would have created a loophole that eliminated any limits to abortions later in pregnancy.

Alina Salganicoff, director of KFF’s Women’s Health Policy program, said the legislation would have allowed health providers to perform abortions without obstacles such as waiting periods, medically unnecessary tests and in-person visits, or other restrictions. The bill would have allowed an abortion after viability when, "in the good-faith medical judgment of the treating health care provider, continuation of the pregnancy would pose a risk to the pregnant patient’s life or health."

Former President Donald Trump and President Joe Biden debate June 27, 2024, in Atlanta. (AP)

Inflation and economy 

Trump: "He caused this inflation. I gave him a country with … essentially no inflation. It was perfect."

Mostly False. When Biden was inaugurated, year-over-year inflation was about 1.4%. However, that was shaped by the still-weak economy during the coronavirus pandemic, which was still a serious threat when Biden was inaugurated.

As the pandemic conditions improved, the economy accelerated. Consumers were ready to buy products, but the pandemic had prompted supply chain shortages. This, combined with Russia’s invasion of Ukraine which raised gasoline prices, led to inflation, peaking at 9% about a year and a half into Biden’s presidency. That was the highest in about four decades. 

Economists generally say Biden’s coronavirus relief plan, the American Rescue Plan, did exacerbate inflation by putting more money into consumers’ hands at a time when supplies were running short. But they do not believe that Biden caused high inflation single-handedly.

Trump: "You look at the cost of food, where it's double, triple and quadruple."

False. Food costs have risen faster under President Joe Biden than under any of his five most recent predecessors. However, the 21% increase in food prices on Biden’s watch is well below what Trump claimed. Quadrupling food costs would be an increase of 300%, or more than 10 times larger than what Trump said.

Specific categories of food have spiked more than food prices overall. For instance, egg prices are 84% higher today than when Biden took office. But for every food category that has outrun overall food inflation, there’s another category that has risen more slowly than average.

Also, this increase was spread over three and a half years, making the annual increase about 6%, part of which has been offset by rising wages.

Biden: "Economists say (Trump’s proposed tariffs are) going to cost the average American $2,500 a year or more."

Mostly True. Most economists expect that Trump’s proposed 10% across-the-board tariff on foreign products will force consumers to pay more. The specific size of that hit is open to debate, though Biden offered a figure somewhat higher than current estimates.

Just days before the debate, the American Action Forum, a center-right think tank, projected additional costs per household of $1,700 to $2,350 annually.

The Peterson Institute of International Economics, another Washington, D.C.-based think tank, projected that such tariffs would cost a middle-income household about $1,700 extra each year.

Former President Donald Trump responds to a question June 27, 2024, during a debate against President Joe Biden in Atlanta. (AP)

Jobs

Biden: Semiconductor jobs "to build these chips … pay over $100,000. You don’t need a college degree for them."

Mostly False. The average semiconductor industry salary is around $170,000, figures from Oxford Economics and Semiconductor Industry Association, a trade group, show. But this figure includes all jobs within the industry and doesn’t single out jobs requiring no college degree.

To earn a salary of $110,000 or higher, employees in the semiconductor industry need undergraduate or graduate-level degrees, the groups say.

The most a person would make without a four-year degree is about $70,000, according to a 2021 report from the Semiconductor Industry Association and Oxford Economics.

Biden: "Black unemployment is the lowest level it’s been in a long, long time."

Mostly True. The record for low Black unemployment rate was set under Biden in April 2023, at 4.8%. It has risen modestly since then to 6.1% in May 2024, but that’s still lower than it was for much of the first two years under Trump. 

Overall, Trump had success on this statistic, too. When Biden set the record, the record he was breaking was Trump’s: 5.3% in August and September 2019.

Trump: "The only jobs (Biden) created are for illegal immigrants and bounce-back jobs, bounce-back from the COVID."

False. Since Biden took office in early 2021, the number of foreign-born Americans who are employed has risen by about 5.6 million. But over the same time period, the number of native-born Americans employed has increased by almost 7.4 million. (There are many more native-born Americans than foreign-born Americans, so on a percentage basis, the increase for foreign-born Americans is about 22%, compared with 6% for native-born Americans.)

It’s also wrong to say that all the foreign-born employment gains (much less all the employment gains) stem from migrants here illegally. The data for foreign-born Americans includes anyone born outside the U.S., including immigrants who have been in the United States legally for decades.

Employment on Biden’s watch passed its prepandemic level by June 2022, about a year and a half into his term. Since then, the U.S. economy has created an additional 6.2 million jobs.

Trump legal cases 

Trump: Biden "indicted me because I was his opponent."

False. The Manhattan district attorney’s investigation into Trump’s business records began before Biden was president, but Biden was president by the time Trump was charged in 2023.

After Michael Cohen, who had been an attorney for Trump, pleaded guilty to federal charges in 2018, then-Manhattan District Attorney Cyrus Vance Jr. began investigating the payments, Politico reported. That was before Biden was president. Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg hired a former Justice Department prosecutor in 2022. But experts told us that doesn’t prove Biden was involved.

Trump has also been indicted by a Fulton County, Georgia, grand jury and two federal grand juries. Biden is not responsible for state or federal prosecutors’ decisions to present cases to grand juries.

President Joe Biden gestures after answering a question during the June 27, 2024, debate against former President Donald Trump in Atlanta. (AP)

Social Security, Medicare and taxes

Trump: "Social Security, he's destroying it, because millions of people are pouring into our country, and they're putting them onto Social Security. They're putting them onto Medicare, Medicaid." 

False. It’s wrong to say that immigration will destroy Social Security. Social Security’s fiscal challenges stem from a shortage of workers compared with beneficiaries. 

Immigration is far from a fiscal fix-all for Social Security’s challenges. But having more immigrants in the United States would increase the worker-to-beneficiary ratio, potentially for decades, thus extending the program’s solvency, experts say.

Most immigrants in the U.S. illegally are also ineligible for Social Security. However, people who entered the U.S. illegally and were granted humanitarian parole — a temporary permission to stay in the country — for more than one year, are eligible for Social Security. 

Immigrants in the U.S. illegally also are generally ineligible to enroll in federally funded health care coverage such as Medicare and Medicaid. (Some states provide Medicaid coverage under state-funded programs regardless of immigration status. Immigrants are eligible for emergency Medicaid regardless of status.)

Biden: Trump "wants to get rid of Social Security, he thinks there's plenty to cut in Social Security."

False. Biden went further than previous attacks to say Trump would cut the program entirely. In a March CNBC interview, Trump said of entitlement programs such as Social Security, "There’s a lot you can do in terms of entitlements, in terms of cutting." 

However, Trump quickly walked that statement back. Also, his campaign website says that not "a single penny" should be cut from Social Security, and he’s repeated similar lines in campaign rallies.

Before the 2024 campaign, Trump said about a half dozen times that he’s open to major overhauls of Social Security, including cuts and privatization.

Trump: "He wants to raise your taxes by four times. He wants to raise everybody's taxes by four times."

False. Biden proposed a tax increase of about 7% over the next decade, which is far lower than the 300% increase that former President Donald Trump claimed. (Doubling would be a 100% increase and tripling would be a 200% increase.)

About 83% of the proposed Biden tax increase would be borne by the top 1% of taxpayers, a level that starts at just under $1 million a year in income. 

Taxpayers earning up to $60,400 would see their yearly taxes decline on average, and taxpayers earning $60,400 to $107,300 would see an annual increase of $20 on average.

Biden: "I said I’d never raise the tax on anybody if you're making less than $400,000. I didn’t."

Mostly True. Biden has said repeatedly that he will not raise taxes on anyone making less than $400,000, a promise he campaigned on in 2020.

He has not raised any individual income taxes on Americans earning less than $400,000 a year. It’s always possible that individual taxpayers could see increases because of changes in their personal circumstances.

Some corporate tax increases enacted on Biden’s watch have a small projected pass-through effect on taxpayers. Economists generally allocate a portion of the tax burden from corporate taxes to shareholders and partly to consumers, who often pay higher prices as corporations factor the higher taxes into pricing of goods and services.

The White House has told PolitiFact that Biden would let the tax cuts Trump signed in 2017 expire for wealthier taxpayers, but would not let Americans making less than $400,000 see any tax increase. 

Trump: "I gave you the largest tax cut in history."

False. When it was passed in 2017, Trump’s tax cut was, in inflation-adjusted dollars, the fourth-largest since 1940. And as a percentage of gross domestic product, it ranked seventh in history, according to figures published by the Treasury Department.

Checking the record on "suckers and losers," "Hitler's done some good things," and Charlottesville, Virginia

Biden: Trump said, "I don't want to go in (a World War I cemetery in France), because they're a bunch of losers and suckers." 

Trump called this a "made-up quote." Both statements need context.

A September 2020 article in The Atlantic cited unnamed sources as saying that Trump called Americans who died in wars "suckers" and "losers" when he canceled a trip in 2018 to the Aisne-Marne American Cemetery near Paris. 

"Why should I go to that cemetery? It’s filled with losers," The Atlantic reported Trump said, citing multiple unnamed sources. In a separate conversation, also according to unnamed sources, he said U.S. Marines who lost their lives in World War I’s Battle of Belleau Wood were "suckers" for getting killed.

John Kelly, Trump’s former chief of staff, confirmed elements of The Atlantic’s story three years later in an October 2023 statement to CNN, including that Trump referred to military members who were killed or wounded as "suckers" and "losers."

But Trump has long denied these allegations.

Biden: "This is a guy who says Hitler's done some good things." 

This is a reference to a passage in a book by CNN anchor Jim Sciutto in which Kelly, Trump's former chief of staff, described a conversation he had with Trump.

"He said, ‘Well, but Hitler did some good things,’" Kelly said. "I said, ‘Well, what?’ And he said, ‘Well, (Adolf Hitler) rebuilt the economy.’"

According to the book, Kelly also told Sciutto that Hitler had the "loyalty" of his senior staff, unlike Trump.

There is no independent verification of this conversation. Trump campaign spokesperson Steven Cheung told CNN in March that Kelly suffered from "a severe case of Trump Derangement Syndrome," but didn’t address the specific allegations. 

Biden: Trump called Nazis protesting in the crowd in Charlottesville, Virginia, in 2017 "very fine people."

Trump vehemently denied Biden’s characterization. Here’s what happened.

In comments to reporters following violent protests in Charlottesville, Virginia, over the removal of a Confederate general’s statue, Trump said of marchers who protested the removal, "You had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides." 

During back-and-forth remarks with reporters, Trump separately condemned the "neo-Nazis and the white nationalists."

"But not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me," Trump said. "Not all of those people were white supremacists by any stretch."

Trump also said that counterprotesters had similar makeup of "good" and "bad" people — "some fine people" and also " troublemakers" and "bad people."

President Joe Biden and former President Donald Trump’s debated immigration, abortion, the economy and golf June 27, 2024, in Atlanta. (AP)

Crime

Trump: "What he's done to the Black population is horrible, including the fact that for 10 years, he called them super predators … in the 1990s."

False. In a 1993 Senate floor speech, Biden, then a U.S. senator from Delaware, spoke about doing something for young people who lacked supervision, structure or opportunities. He said the country needed to focus on them, because otherwise, a portion of them would "become the predators 15 years from now."

Biden did not single out any racial or ethnic group. In a 1998 speech at an attorneys general conference, Biden also used the term "predators." He didn’t say he was talking about Black youth.

Health care

Biden: "We brought down the price (of) prescription drug(s), which is a major issue for many people, to $15 for an insulin shot, as opposed to $400."

Half True. Biden touted his efforts to reduce prescription drug costs by referring to the $35 insulin price cap his administration instituted as part of the 2022 Inflation Reduction Act. But he flubbed the number during the debate, saying it was lowered to $15. In his closing statement, Biden corrected the number to $35.  

The price of insulin for Medicare enrollees starting in 2023 dropped to $35 a month, not $15. Drug pricing experts told PolitFact when we rated a similar claim that most Medicare enrollees were likely not paying a monthly average of $400 before the changes, although because costs vary depending on coverage phases and dosages, some might have paid that much in a given month.

Biden: Trump "wants to get rid of the ACA again."

Half True. In 2016, Trump campaigned on a promise to repeal and replace the Affordable Care Act, or ACA. In the White House, Trump supported a failed effort to do just that. In the years since, he has repeatedly said he would dismantle the health care law in campaign stops and social media posts throughout 2023.

In March, however, Trump walked back this stance, writing on Truth Social that he "isn’t running to terminate" the ACA but to make it "better" and "less expensive." Trump hasn’t said how he would do this.

Trump: "I'm the one that got the insulin down for the seniors."

Mostly False. When he was president, Trump instituted the Part D Senior Savings Model, a program that capped insulin costs to $35 a month for some older Americans in drug plans that chose to participate. 

But because it was voluntary, 38% of all Medicare drug plans, including Medicare Advantage plans, participated in 2022, according to KFF. Trump’s voluntary plan also covered only one form of each dosage and insulin type. 

Biden points to the Inflation Reduction Act’s mandatory $35 insulin cap as a major achievement. This cap applies to all Medicare prescription plans. It also expanded the cap to all covered insulin types and dosages. Although Trump’s model was a start, it did not have the sweeping reach that Biden’s mandatory cap achieved. 

Foreign policy and terrorism

Biden: "I’m the only president this century that doesn't have any, this decade, that doesn’t have any troops dying anywhere in the world like he did."

False. Some U.S. service members have died in combat abroad during Biden’s presidency.

In August 2021, 13 U.S. service members were killed in an attack as the U.S. withdrew from Afghanistan under Biden’s administration. No U.S. service member deaths were reported in 2022, Defense Department data shows. Full government data for U.S. active duty military deaths is not available for 2023 or 2024. This January, three U.S. soldiers were killed in a drone strike in Jordan.

During Trump’s presidency, from January 2017 to January 2020, 65 U.S. service members were killed in combat, Defense Department data shows.

Trump: "We had no terror (attacks) under my administration."

False. During Trump’s presidency, there were several major terror attacks, some linked to extreme global jihadist ideology. 

In 2017, there were two separate attacks in New York City, which Trump himself acknowledged as "terrorist attacks" during his 2018 State of the Union address.

There was also a December 2019 mass shooting by a member of Saudi Arabia’s air force who was studying at Naval Air Station Pensacola in Florida. Three U.S. service members were killed and eight were wounded by the gunman, who had expressed anti-American and anti-Israel sentiments on social media. Trump’s Attorney General William Barr described the shooting as "an act of terrorism."

Trump’s Justice Department also prosecuted several cases of domestic terrorism.

Excluding unsuccessful attacks and those for which officials doubt motive, there were 220 terror incidents in the United States of varying severity during Trump’s presidency from 2017 to 2020, according to the Global Terrorism Database at the University of Maryland, which tracks incidents of terrorism.

Election denial and Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol

Trump: Regarding the 2020 election, "the fraud and everything else was ridiculous."

False. There is some fraud in every election, but it was not enough to change the outcome of the 2020 presidential election. And some fraudulently cast ballots involved defendants who were either registered Republicans or said that they supported Trump.

Federal and state officials, including Republicans in Georgia, said the 2020 election was legitimate. Trump’s own attorney general, William Barr, said that he had not seen fraud on a scale that would invalidate Joe Biden’s victory. 

As Trump faced reelection in 2020, he said Biden could win only if the election was rigged. Numerous investigations, court cases and reviews yielded no evidence of widespread rigging in the 2020 presidential election.

Elections are administered in thousands of local areas nationwide, each with safeguards, making any attempt to "rig" a national election highly improbable.

Trump: Pelosi said "I take full responsibility for Jan. 6."

False. That’s not what former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., said.

In a 41-second video taken on Jan. 6, 2021, Pelosi said, "I take responsibility for not having them just prepare for more," referring to U.S. Capitol security. She did not say she took responsibility for the Jan. 6, 2021, Capitol attack.

Records show that Pelosi approved a Jan. 6, 2021, request to seek support from the National Guard and pushed to get National Guard troops to the U.S. Capitol when their deployment was delayed by hours that day.

Worst president rankings

Biden: Presidential historians "voted who was the worst president in American history. From best to worst. They said (Trump) was the worst in all of American history."

True. The 2024 Presidential Greatness Project Expert Survey, released in February, collected responses from 154 presidential historians, which included current and recent members of the American Political Science Association. The survey ranked Biden as the 14th best president in U.S. history, and put Trump last.

The historians were asked to give every president a score, from zero to 100. Abraham Lincoln topped the list with an average score of 95, while Biden scored an average of 62.66. Trump averaged just under 11 points.

The golf moment

Somehow the presidential debate turned into a fight over who’s the better golfer. Biden said he would have a driving competition with Trump and claimed he was a 6 handicap while serving as vice president.

Trump scoffed. "He can hit a ball 50 yards."

Joe Biden is currently listed with the United States Golf Association as holding a 6.7 handicap playing out of Fieldstone Golf Club in Delaware. Biden hasn’t logged a score in the system since 2018. Scores are typically self-reported, and a handicap comes from an average of the lowest 8 of the most recent 20 posted scores.

The lower the handicap you have, the better golfer you are. Ivanka Trump, for instance, is a 20.9 handicap and Eric Trump is listed as a 13.6 (without a round since 2015). Donald Trump is in the system as a member of the prestigious Winged Foot Golf Club in New York. He lists a handicap of 2.5 but hasn’t posted a score since 2021.

 

[West]

4 minutes ago, robosmith said:

2024 presidential debate fact-check: How accurate were Joe Biden, Donald Trump?

Enough unsubstantiated OPINIONS from right wing partisan HACKS here.

 

 

So the people whove lied now for many years about the state of Joe Biden's cognition should be believed on a fact check? 

[CdnFox]

36 minutes ago, West said:

I'm not sure if the intent was there with all the fibs JB told at the debate to outright accuse him of lying. It could just be that he has dementia and can't remember things one day to the next..

Either way what he says shouldn't be taken serious and treated as babble

If you watch and you've done that kind of thing yourself before you'll be able to see very clearly where he goes from "thinking" (lets call it that) on his own to switching to a talking point he's practiced a lot.  A number of the talking points were lies, suggesting he intended to be dishonest about them before  he showed up. 

Now - some would call them gross exaggerations. Most good lies have a grain of truth to sweeten them. Trump did say there would be a bloodbath, but he was clearly talking of the auto industry.  Trump did say he'd be a dictator for ONE day about TWO SPEIFIC issues. Trump did say that when it came to those who were divided over the statue issue that there were good people on both sides  not that the nazis were good. etc. 

But when you state something in a way you know is deliberately misleading or does not reflect the facts accurately, in my books that's a lie. 

 

However i think the dementia thing is hard to argue with for some of that   

[West]

4 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

If you watch and you've done that kind of thing yourself before you'll be able to see very clearly where he goes from "thinking" (lets call it that) on his own to switching to a talking point he's practiced a lot.  A number of the talking points were lies, suggesting he intended to be dishonest about them before  he showed up. 

Now - some would call them gross exaggerations. Most good lies have a grain of truth to sweeten them. Trump did say there would be a bloodbath, but he was clearly talking of the auto industry.  Trump did say he'd be a dictator for ONE day about TWO SPEIFIC issues. Trump did say that when it came to those who were divided over the statue issue that there were good people on both sides  not that the nazis were good. etc. 

But when you state something in a way you know is deliberately misleading or does not reflect the facts accurately, in my books that's a lie. 

 

However i think the dementia thing is hard to argue with for some of that   

I agree who's ever behind him will lie, distort reality, gaslight, and be vile. That's just who those people are