For Hamas, Everything Is Going According to Plan

[robosmith]

For Hamas, Everything Is Going According to Plan

Quote

The leaders of both Israel and Hamas seem content for the war in Gaza to grind on into the indefinite future. Such is the upshot of their ambiguous, but essentially negative, responses to President Joe Biden’s peace proposal, which is now fully backed by the United Nations Security Council. And the reasons are obvious.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu seems to have concluded that the best way to stay out of prison on corruption charges is to stay in office, and the best way to do that is to keep the war going. Hamas, meanwhile, believes that it is winning. On October 13, I wrote in these pages that Hamas had set a trap for Israel. The trap has sprung; Israel is fully enmeshed in it, with no evident way out, and Hamas is getting exactly what it hoped for.

Biden’s three-phase proposal was meant to end the war and establish an unspecified postconflict reality in Gaza. Phase 1 involves a 42-day cease-fire and the release of hostages held by Hamas and prisoners held by Israel, as well as negotiations for a complete end to the fighting. Phase 2 includes, as its centerpiece, a permanent cessation of hostilities. According to Biden’s plan, if the talks at the end of Phase 1 don’t produce a clear understanding of how to implement Phase 2, negotiations would then continue for as long as both parties abide by their Phase 1 commitments. The trouble is that this would, in effect, indefinitely freeze the war at its current stage.

Netanyahu won’t accept that. On May 31, Biden declared, “It is time for this war to end.”

Netanyahu effectively replied that this is no time for the war to end, and has insisted that the war will continue until Hamas is destroyed.

By saying that the war must continue until his poorly defined military and political objectives are achieved, while at the same time saying that he is open to the 42-day cease-fire of Phase 1, Netanyahu is signaling that he would like to pocket the release of Israeli hostages and then return to conflict—exactly the scenario Biden seeks to avoid. Hamas, too, might eventually agree to try to implement Phase 1, in order to gain the release of some Palestinian prisoners and regroup its remaining forces for the next round of fighting. But neither has any real interest in the all-important Phase 2.

So why would Hamas possibly want the war to continue, given the devastation of Gaza and its beleaguered Palestinian population, and the decimation of the group’s organized military strength? The answer is that Hamas leaders in Gaza almost certainly believe that the war is going according to plan.

The scale of the destruction can’t be a surprise to Hamas. Provoking the Israelis and luring them into Gaza was in fact Hamas’s intent. Once Israel blundered into reoccupying the Strip’s urban centers, its forces could serve as a lightning rod for a long-term insurgency, which was what Hamas was counting on all along.

The grim reality is that the only people left in the world who seem to want the war to continue into the indefinite future are also the only ones who could stop it: the Hamas leaders and Netanyahu. Biden deserves credit for trying, but he has almost no chance of success. 

What I've been saying: Hamas is getting exactly what they wanted. 🤮

 

[User]

3 hours ago, robosmith said:

What I've been saying: Hamas is getting exactly what they wanted.

And hopefully, Israel will keep giving it to them until they are destroyed. 

[eyeball]

8 hours ago, robosmith said:

What I've been saying: Hamas is getting exactly what they wanted.

Netanyahu's coalition and Hamas go together like peas and carrots.

Secular lefties are the only people with the moral and ethical background for negotiating peace. When conservatives go to war with one another it's for mutual benefit.

[User]

13 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Secular lefties are the only people with the moral and ethical background for negotiating peace. When conservatives go to war with one another it's for mutual benefit.

Negotiating peace... 

You can stop pretending like you don't know why we say you support Hamas staying in power and continuing to kill Israelis. 

[eyeball]

7 hours ago, User said:

Negotiating peace... 

You can stop pretending like you don't know why we say you support Hamas staying in power and continuing to kill Israelis. 

Well that's easy enough to understand, it's because you like being cunts about it.

[robosmith]

16 hours ago, User said:

And hopefully, Israel will keep giving it to them until they are destroyed. 

I'm sure Bibi will appreciate your help with spreading ^his delusional BULLSHIT. 

[Rebound]

3 minutes ago, robosmith said:

I'm sure Bibi will appreciate your help with spreading ^his delusional BULLSHIT. 

I do not trust Netanyahu’s motivations, but Israel must eliminate Hamas. If they are not eliminated, they will continue to murder Israeli civilians.  
 

They claim that 70% of the Gazan war dead are women and children. If this is true, it means that Hamas is protecting the men and not the women or children.  

[User]

4 hours ago, eyeball said:

Well that's easy enough to understand, it's because you like being cunts about it.

It is sad how you can muster up more outrage to folks you argue with on the internet than you can for the terrorist thugs of Hamas. 

59 minutes ago, robosmith said:

I'm sure Bibi will appreciate your help with spreading ^his delusional BULLSHIT. 

I am sure Hamas appreciates your support as well. 

[Fluffypants]

It is going to plan for Hamas, they count on liberals in the world to cry about the poor Palestinians who put them into power and approve of Hamas' actions and demand a cease fire before Hamas can be rooted out and decimated. So that in the end they get to remain in power and do it again later and this begins anew.

Even if they do the vaunted 2 state solution we will just create a terrorist state who gets to have an actual military to continue to attack Israel.

 

[Rebound]

1 hour ago, Fluffypants said:

It is going to plan for Hamas, they count on liberals in the world to cry about the poor Palestinians who put them into power and approve of Hamas' actions and demand a cease fire before Hamas can be rooted out and decimated. So that in the end they get to remain in power and do it again later and this begins anew.

Even if they do the vaunted 2 state solution we will just create a terrorist state who gets to have an actual military to continue to attack Israel.

 

This liberal supports Israel.  And the liberals who support the Palestinian call for freedom using “any means necessary” are terrorist sympathizers. 
 

Hamas seized power in Gaza by murdering the elected Fatah leaders.  But even with different leadership, the path to a peaceful two state solution is long.  

[robosmith]

4 hours ago, User said:

I am sure Hamas appreciates your support as well. 

^Delusional. I said NOTHING in support of Hamas. It's just reality. You should take off your blinders and examine it.

The reality is, Hamas knew how Bibi would react and wanted that.

[WestCanMan]

3 hours ago, Rebound said:

This liberal supports Israel.  And the liberals who support the Palestinian call for freedom using “any means necessary” are terrorist sympathizers. 
 

Hamas seized power in Gaza by murdering the elected Fatah leaders.  But even with different leadership, the path to a peaceful two state solution is long.  

Israel/Palestine is the one area of politics where there's no clear middle of the aisle. Conservatives and liberals are found on both sides of this one, even in the outlier categories.

I made some FB friends from the ant-vax days and anti-Trudeau days and pro-Trump days that are firmly on my side in almost every aspect of politics, but are now my arch-enemies regarding Israel/Palestine.

TBH, I've switched sides myself, twice now. I grew up pro-Israeli because my parents were pro-Israeli, and then as a young man I couldn't help but notice that both sides were always claiming to be the ones "retaliating", but Irsaeli reprisals were on a larger scale, and the Palestinian attacks got a lot of coverage while their victims got no coverage: they were just numbers. There was also the issue of the Nabka, early Jewish terrorists, the constant expansion into the accepted Palestinian territories. If we're being honest, there's a lot to dislike about both of these baconally challenged a-holes, but it's the view from 50,000 feet that puts me on the Israeli side.

When you look at how Jews were treated for the last 1,000 years, it's pretty clear that:

1. they need a homeland where they don't have to worry about where the next genocide is coming from
2. it made sense for Jews from all over the ME and Europe to go to Israel
3. The area called "Palestine" by the Ottomans, Romans, etc wasn't all "Palestine" any more than Edmonton is part of Quebec, or Mecca is part of England.
4. most importantly: the Israelis have been facing genocide since the very beginning of the Arab Israeli war: Pakistan really is the model that muslims in the ME are looking to follow. The Palestinians don't have to stare down a similar fate because there are dozens of countries for muslims to go where they don't have to live under codified religious bigotry, live in constant fear of genocide or gov't reprisals, etc. The Jews have nothing but Israel, and Israel is a tiny speck in that vast region. All the people who made the case for Pakistan to exist and who haven't got any hard feelings against Pakistan after all of their massive genocides, should be able to see how the same case can be made for Israelis. 

If Israel loses, they all die. Palestinians have lots of other options aside from having all of Palestine and all of Israel under their control. They need to get over it. 

[User]

2 hours ago, robosmith said:

^Delusional. I said NOTHING in support of Hamas. It's just reality. You should take off your blinders and examine it.

The reality is, Hamas knew how Bibi would react and wanted that.

So, Do you support Israel destroying Hamas? 

You just criticized a comment of mine, cheering that on, and now you say you said nothing in support of Hamas. Sitting here defending them from Israel IS supporting them. 

[WestCanMan]

When they count women as "women", sometimes they're counting terrorists.

[robosmith]

4 hours ago, User said:

So, Do you support Israel destroying Hamas? 

I support the IDF killing Hamas militants where ever they are found.

4 hours ago, User said:

You just criticized a comment of mine, cheering that on, and now you say you said nothing in support of Hamas. Sitting here defending them from Israel IS supporting them. 

I DID NOT and NEVER HAVE defended Hamas attacks. However there are plenty of people who defend Israeli terrorist attacks on Palestinian civilians ever since the founding of Israel as if "they needed a homeland" justifies taking it from Palestinians.

[User]

2 hours ago, robosmith said:

I support the IDF killing Hamas militants where ever they are found.

OK, so please explain, what makes your comment here different from mine?

And hopefully, Israel will keep giving it to them until they are destroyed. 

 

[Hodad]

9 hours ago, Fluffypants said:

It is going to plan for Hamas, they count on liberals in the world to cry about the poor Palestinians who put them into power and approve of Hamas' actions and demand a cease fire before Hamas can be rooted out and decimated. So that in the end they get to remain in power and do it again later and this begins anew.

Even if they do the vaunted 2 state solution we will just create a terrorist state who gets to have an actual military to continue to attack Israel.

 

It takes a sociopathic level of empathy to look at ten thousand dead children and say "Well, they shouldn't have voted for Hamas."

The fact is that most Gazans didn't vote for Hamas. Literally half of the people there today weren't even born yet, let alone of voting age. And Hamas never won a majority. They were supposed to share power, but seized control through violence and there hasn't been an election since.

What's certain is that the indiscriminate murder of tens of thousands of Innocents will breed a bigger crop of terrorists, more resolute and more desperate--and that half the world will now think of as freedom fighters.

[CdnFox]

I honestly don't think hamas is getting what they wanted at all. 

I think what they wanted is the same thing they've gotten every other time they picked a war with Israel. I think they wanted six  to 12 weeks of fighting, a few thousand deaths, and then the UN to step in and give them a bunch of goodies and tell them how terrible they have it and they walk away with some casualties and a few less buildings but generally speaking not that much damagenew powers and recognition.

That is not what has happened.

Things have gone so stunningly poor for them, that even if the war stopped now it would probably take them many many decades to rebuild their tunnels and forts and their prestige etc etc.

Now they have to find a way to stay alive and stay in power. And Israel is just not going to be interested, and the united nations and the united states have not so far been excited about the idea of leaving Hamas in place. And Israel's position that no peace agreement can be discussed without Hamas leaving is pretty strong.

I think Hamas was very surprised by this. I think they are probably desperately trying to figure out a way where they can stay in power and end this with some species of at least appearing to have won some kind of victory

Edited Monday at 06:21 AM by CdnFox

[User]

8 hours ago, Hodad said:

What's certain is that the indiscriminate murder of tens of thousands of Innocents will breed a bigger crop of terrorists, more resolute and more desperate--and that half the world will now think of as freedom fighters.

This is such a phony argument and an outright lie. 

The lie: That Israel is engaged in the "indiscriminate murder" of people. Israel is going out of its way to try to conduct this war with a minimal loss of civilian life. It is Hamas who chooses to engage in warfare from behind their own people. The resulting civilian deaths are on them and that is not murder nor is it indiscriminate. 

The phony narrative: That Israel should just live on with Hamas trying to kill their people forever because stopping them from killing their people will somehow be worse!

Hamas just conducted one of the worst attacks against Israel and Jews in history. Raping, murdering (actual murder), torture, and taking hostages... but yeah, somehow Israel is supposed to be more worried it will be worse if they eliminate Hamas. 

It is a joke. That is not a serious argument. It basically boils down to be too cowardly to just say you support Hamas staying in power and continuing to kill Israeli people. 

 

[Fluffypants]

9 hours ago, Hodad said:

It takes a sociopathic level of empathy to look at ten thousand dead children and say "Well, they shouldn't have voted for Hamas."

The fact is that most Gazans didn't vote for Hamas. Literally half of the people there today weren't even born yet, let alone of voting age. And Hamas never won a majority. They were supposed to share power, but seized control through violence and there hasn't been an election since.

What's certain is that the indiscriminate murder of tens of thousands of Innocents will breed a bigger crop of terrorists, more resolute and more desperate--and that half the world will now think of as freedom fighters.

It is not about empathy, it is the reality of what war is. If Hamas had empathy for children they wouldn't use them as human shields and we don't really know how many children have died in Gaza because we are relying on information given by terrorists.

Besides I wonder how many 10s of thousands of children we killed in Iraq and Afghanistan or how about Japan, Vietnam, Korea or how many innocent children Hamas has killed.

 

Edited Sunday at 04:49 PM by Fluffypants

[Rebound]

17 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Israel/Palestine is the one area of politics where there's no clear middle of the aisle. Conservatives and liberals are found on both sides of this one, even in the outlier categories.

I made some FB friends from the ant-vax days and anti-Trudeau days and pro-Trump days that are firmly on my side in almost every aspect of politics, but are now my arch-enemies regarding Israel/Palestine.

TBH, I've switched sides myself, twice now. I grew up pro-Israeli because my parents were pro-Israeli, and then as a young man I couldn't help but notice that both sides were always claiming to be the ones "retaliating", but Irsaeli reprisals were on a larger scale, and the Palestinian attacks got a lot of coverage while their victims got no coverage: they were just numbers. There was also the issue of the Nabka, early Jewish terrorists, the constant expansion into the accepted Palestinian territories. If we're being honest, there's a lot to dislike about both of these baconally challenged a-holes, but it's the view from 50,000 feet that puts me on the Israeli side.

When you look at how Jews were treated for the last 1,000 years, it's pretty clear that:

1. they need a homeland where they don't have to worry about where the next genocide is coming from
2. it made sense for Jews from all over the ME and Europe to go to Israel
3. The area called "Palestine" by the Ottomans, Romans, etc wasn't all "Palestine" any more than Edmonton is part of Quebec, or Mecca is part of England.
4. most importantly: the Israelis have been facing genocide since the very beginning of the Arab Israeli war: Pakistan really is the model that muslims in the ME are looking to follow. The Palestinians don't have to stare down a similar fate because there are dozens of countries for muslims to go where they don't have to live under codified religious bigotry, live in constant fear of genocide or gov't reprisals, etc. The Jews have nothing but Israel, and Israel is a tiny speck in that vast region. All the people who made the case for Pakistan to exist and who haven't got any hard feelings against Pakistan after all of their massive genocides, should be able to see how the same case can be made for Israelis. 

If Israel loses, they all die. Palestinians have lots of other options aside from having all of Palestine and all of Israel under their control. They need to get over it. 

To be clear, the Palestinians ALSO have the West Bank and Gaza. If you look at a map of Israel and subtract the massive Negev desert, the Palestinians have nearly as much land as the Israelis.  They could build a great nation with it, if only they gave up this stupid Jihad nonsense.  
 

Their most sacred site is the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem, which Israel has kept open to them.  Israel could have closed it off, but they didn’t. When Palestinians controlled the area, Jews were not free to pray at the Western Wall.  

[WestCanMan]

36 minutes ago, Rebound said:

To be clear, the Palestinians ALSO have the West Bank and Gaza. If you look at a map of Israel and subtract the massive Negev desert, the Palestinians have nearly as much land as the Israelis.  

Exactly. The desert is only valuable as a military buffer zone. It's of no use agriculturally or as a place for large-scale human habitation. 

Quote

They could build a great nation with it, if only they gave up this stupid Jihad nonsense.   

Gaza is a perfect example of how "ugly comes from the inside". 

What region of the world is considered more beautiful than the Mediterranean coast? Honestly, I think it's universally considered to be #1. 

It's hard to believe that you could take 25 miles of that coastline and have it just be considered a miserable shithole for decades, if not centuries, and with no foreseeable chance of improving over the next thousand years. 

If America owned that land there would be billion dollar hotels all up and down that stretch of beach, and people would be visiting from all over the world, Arab states included.

Quote

Israel could have closed it off, but they didn’t. When Palestinians controlled the area, Jews were not free to pray at the Western Wall.  

The brainwashed dolts who keep saying that "Jews and muslims all sang Kumbaya together when the Ottomans controlled that region" just have no idea how repressive and dangerous that culture was for minorities. 

For Jews to not be allowed to pray there is like telling young people now that they can't use the internet or watch TV, and that there would be massive reprisals and/or riots & bloodshed if even one person was caught breaking the rules.

Praying really was that central to their lives, and taking that way from them was nothing short of an attempt at cultural genocide: the Ottomans tried to make being Jewish so miserable and dangerous that people just gave up their religion and switched to islam. It was never an honest attempt at peaceful and harmonious co-existence. 

Edited Sunday at 05:30 PM by WestCanMan

[Rebound]

13 hours ago, robosmith said:

I support the IDF killing Hamas militants where ever they are found.

I DID NOT and NEVER HAVE defended Hamas attacks. However there are plenty of people who defend Israeli terrorist attacks on Palestinian civilians ever since the founding of Israel as if "they needed a homeland" justifies taking it from Palestinians.

I think what happened is that decades of Palestinian terrorism lead Israeli extremists to justify land theft and murder.  The people doing it don’t see it that way, but that’s how I see it.  
 

But Israel pulled out of Gaza 20 years ago, and the results have been horrible.  They developed nothing but weapons which lead to their destruction.  

[robosmith]

15 hours ago, User said:

OK, so please explain, what makes your comment here different from mine?

And hopefully, Israel will keep giving it to them until they are destroyed. 

Do you support indiscriminate bombing of urban areas with 2000lb bombs?

I don't, and I suspect that is the difference.

[robosmith]

5 hours ago, User said:

This is such a phony argument and an outright lie. 

Because you say so? LMAO

5 hours ago, User said:

The lie: That Israel is engaged in the "indiscriminate murder" of people. Israel is going out of its way to try to conduct this war with a minimal loss of civilian life. It is Hamas who chooses to engage in warfare from behind their own people. The resulting civilian deaths are on them and that is not murder nor is it indiscriminate. 

That's what they say, but Netanyahu and his cohort are as big a LIARS as Trump.

5 hours ago, User said:

The phony narrative: That Israel should just live on with Hamas trying to kill their people forever because stopping them from killing their people will somehow be worse!

^FALSE dichotomy. They can conduct targeted operations instead of dropping 2000 lb bombs. 

5 hours ago, User said:

Hamas just conducted one of the worst attacks against Israel and Jews in history. Raping, murdering (actual murder), torture, and taking hostages... but yeah, somehow Israel is supposed to be more worried it will be worse if they eliminate Hamas. 

Israeli government KNEW about their plans and not only FAILED to defend against it, the IDF took 10+ hours to even arrive on the scene. That tells me they WANTED that brutal attack to justify their BRUTAL response.

Now I KNOW you will disagree, because YOU'RE IGNORANT.

5 hours ago, User said:

It is a joke. That is not a serious argument. It basically boils down to be too cowardly to just say you support Hamas staying in power and continuing to kill Israeli people.

^Another FALSE DICHOTOMY. You're the joke here.