Pro-Hamas Rallies in Canada

[WestCanMan]

I dunno if God really ever grants people land. I'm pretty sure it's always guns. 

[CdnFox]

6 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

I dunno if God really ever grants people land. I'm pretty sure it's always guns. 

God May Grant land, but Smith and Wesson holds the title and deed

Edited May 15 by CdnFox

[Videospirit]

3 hours ago, blackbird said:

As prophesied in Scripture, the Jewish people would be allowed to return to Jerusalem after 70 years of exile. That prophecy was fulfilled in 537 B.C., and the Jews were allowed by King Cyrus of Persia to return to Israel and begin rebuilding the city and temple. The return under the direction of Ezra led to a revival among the Jewish people and the rebuilding of the temple."

The Fall of Judea was the end of Jewish Sovereignty over the "promised land". The area was a territory of other nations(Babylon, Persia, Rome) etc. after that, not an independent sovereign state. It's pretty clear that any bestowal by God ended at that time, it was entirely the efforts of men that led to modern Israel.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Videospirit said:

The Fall of Judea was the end of Jewish Sovereignty over the "promised land". 

And now they have it back.  And the circle is complete.  hallelujah.  god is great.  Although it's still amusing that he gave his chosen people the only frikkin land in the middle east without oil. 

The history lesson is interesting but irrelevant. 

Today - there is a jewish nation and within that jewish nation are two palestinian nations and those two groups need to decide if they can get along of if one has to kill the other entirely or at least throw them out to have peace.

The jews seem reluctantly open to finding a path to peace. That will be harder now for gaza but there you go, that was their choice. 

THe Palestinians have not been open to peace. And they might wind up regretting that choice. 

[Videospirit]

Well now that we've cleared up the God gave them the land and they gave it away so no longer have the biblical claim to the land history lesson, we can get back to talking about modern borders of Israel.

5 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Well now they've taken it back   

0 International recognition. There isn't a single other nation on the planet that recognizes it as part of Israel. Israel is a rogue state. 

The world has adopted a status quo that forbids the military annexation of territory from another sovereign state since the formation of the united nations. Like any law, it isn't perfect since rogue states like Israel or Russia or Turkey can break that law if they wish, but we've gone decades since world war 2 and the number of nations that have outright violated that norm can be counted on one hand, and the rest of the world remembers these violations and refuses to recognize them. 

Now, some territory has been annexed militarily since than and accepted by the world, but in all cases that was a result of decolonization or civil war where borders and statehood weren't clear, and happened relatively quickly after decolonization. Turkey Israel and Russia are the only nations on the planet to violate this, just 3 countries! Morocco can be considered a gray zone because their efforts fell into the decolonization efforts, except the colony fought back and gained some level of independence militarily without managed to regain the entire colony, but even if you include Morocco that's only 4 nations. None of Turkey Israel or Russia have received international recognition of their annexations. There are nearly 200 countries on the planet, but only 3 of them have claimed to annex territory from another sovereign state. How many countries annexed territory from another sovereign state in the 60 years before the formation of the united nations? Way more than 3! This norm needs to be defended for the sake of world peace, and every state that violates it needs to be treated as the Rogue state threatening world Peace it is. 

As such, the original 1948 proposed borders for Israel have no real weight because they were never ratified and military conflict settled the borders, Israel got to keep whatever of Palestine they could hold militarily in 1948, and the majority of the planet accepts that as Israeli Territory. The rest of Palestine became Arab territory. Defying that makes Israel a Rogue state. It's that simple. If Israel wants to regime change Palestine, whatever, I don't like it, but war is war, they can be forgiven if that's their objective. But what they absolutely need to do to be forgiven is give Palestine their land back after the war, and you should want them to do that too for the sake of world Peace. Israel has had decades to give Palestine their land back though, and the cause of the end of the ceasefire was Israel's refusal to return their land not some desire to genocide Israel. This is why Israel gets so much hatred and Israel, as a Nation, deserves it.

Edited May 15 by Videospirit

[Videospirit]

7 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

The jews seem reluctantly open to finding a path to peace. That will be harder now for gaza but there you go, that was their choice. 

THe Palestinians have not been open to peace. And they might wind up regretting that choice. 

Palestine: "End the occupation of our land so we can return to peace."

Israel: "I'd rather not. Maybe if you give up your sovereignty and become a puppet state of Israel with 0 military we'd consider it. That's totally a thing that other sovereign states on planet earth do right?"

CdnFox: "Clearly Israel is open to peace and it's the Palestinians who don't want peace."

[DUI_Offender]

On 5/6/2024 at 1:52 PM, Black Dog said:

I've never seen anyone talk about the atrocities of Oct 7 (real and imagined) with more painstaking detail and palpable excitement than Zionist bootlickers like you.

On the other forum, you did everything to justify it.

[User]

8 hours ago, Videospirit said:

Palestine: "End the occupation of our land so we can return to peace."

First, they will NEVER get back all the land they want. At best they want to go back to pre-1948 war borders. Ain't happening. It is a non-starter.

Second, for most of them, all the land they want includes all of Israel... Hence the chants from the river to the sea... 

Until the Palestinians can set more realistic expectations and stop trying to kill Israelis, there will be no end to the "occupation"

 

[blackbird]

11 hours ago, Videospirit said:

The Fall of Judea was the end of Jewish Sovereignty over the "promised land". The area was a territory of other nations(Babylon, Persia, Rome) etc. after that, not an independent sovereign state. It's pretty clear that any bestowal by God ended at that time, it was entirely the efforts of men that led to modern Israel.

No, Israel never lost the right to the land even though they may have lost use of the land temporarily in different periods of history.  The Scripture says God gave them the land for perpetuity.

Here is the perspective of one writer or article who explains it:

"

The Principle of Tenant Possession

God gave His land of Israel to the people of Israel to possess as an inheritance forever: “For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed forever” (Gen. 13:15; cp. 15:7; Dt. 19:14; Josh. 1:2). Even though God gave the land to the people of Israel, they were not to regard themselves as its sole owners and authorities. Because God was the ultimate owner of the land, they were responsible to serve as His representatives, administering His rule over the land for His benefit, in accordance with His sovereign purpose and in obedience to His commands. The Mosaic Law spelled out the details of this arrangement. Scholars have described this principle in various ways. Margolis said, “The land, the law declares, properly belongs to YHWH, who is sole landlord, while all the Israelites are but his tenants.”^{2 "}

^{See the whole article for much more detail:}

God’s Law for Redeeming the Land – Israel My Glory

[CdnFox]

9 hours ago, Videospirit said:

0 International recognition. There isn't a single other nation on the planet that recognizes it as part of Israel. Israel is a rogue state. 

100 percent of the international community recognizes israel as a country and not a rogue state.

From wikipedia: Israel,^[a] officially the State of Israel,^[b] is a country in the Southern Levant region of West Asia.

Sorry big guy - you failed right out of the gate 

10 hours ago, Videospirit said:

The world has adopted a status quo that forbids the military annexation of territory from another sovereign state

OOoooo - and the failure continues!!!!!    

I gave you a bunch of examples where the world absolutely has recognized foreign conquest of territory. 

And your excuse of 'but but but but colonization but but" is utter bullshit. Sorry. 

You were wrong, as i've shown.  Israel is absolutely a state, not a 'rogue' anything.  And if they are forced to annex gaza or take control over it for their saftety and security they will and the world will allow it just fine. 

There's no chance of going back to 1948.  That went out the window when Palestine chose war and violence. There's probably no chance of gaza going back to being an unoccupied territory as it was - the israelis will now subjugate it and rule it to make sure they don't build up another arsenal to attack them again. 

 

This is thier own doing. They've lost their freedoms, they've lost their independence and i'd bet good money they've lost their land. Every time Palestine picks a fight they lose ground. YOu'd think they'd learn by now. 

 

[Black Dog]

8 hours ago, DUI_Offender said:

On the other forum, you did everything to justify it.

Shut the f*ck up you stalker creep.

[I am Groot]

On 5/13/2024 at 11:30 PM, Videospirit said:

What I want? I want Israel to accept that Palestinians hate them and turn the other cheek and let the Palestinians rise or mess up their own country as they themselves choose without Israel telling them how to live their lives, occupying their land, blockading their coastline, or telling them what they can and can't do.

If after granting them true sovereignty and ending all occupations, Palestine is unwise enough to attack Israel, Israel would be justified occupying their country and installing a new regime smart enough not to attack Israel again and withdraw from all occupied territory again once that new regime has stabilized.

Well, that's mighty generous of you. How many Israelis do you think would die in this war? Which would be an absolute certainty, btw, once Iran had succeeded in properly arming the new Hamas led Palestinian "nation". A war with a nation full of zealots who don't care if they die, who, in many cases, would be eager for death as that would give them martyrdom as long as they could kill some Jews first?

And would Israel also have the moral authority to use nuclear weapons on the new Palestinian nation? The US did so on Japan, after all, because they were such fanatics a million Americans might have died in trying to conquer the country. 

[eyeball]

21 hours ago, User said:

1948... what was the dispossession, oppression and subjugation on the Palestinians by Israeli's?

So you figure the creation of Israel has been benign with regards to Palestinians - even beneficial?

21 hours ago, User said:

Feel free to actually respond to my comment, which I have posted twice now for you, in regards to your put yourself in their shoes comment. 

Reminder: Aliens vs Space Marines. 

🤣

[User]

6 minutes ago, eyeball said:

So you figure the creation of Israel has been benign with regards to Palestinians - even beneficial?

You did not answer my question. It was your assertion about dispossession, oppression and subjugation on the Palestinians

No, the creation of Israel did not cause oppression, subjugation, and dispossession to the Palestinians. 

Their going to war against Israel led to that. 

 

[I am Groot]

24 minutes ago, eyeball said:

So you figure the creation of Israel has been benign with regards to Palestinians - even beneficial?

🤣

It could have been. But the Palestinians and their Arab brethren decided otherwise.

[eyeball]

5 minutes ago, User said:

You did not answer my question. It was your assertion about dispossession, oppression and subjugation on the Palestinians.

If you're asking me to define these terms for you I'd say get a dictionary. I don't care which dictionary you subscribe to or use because I'm pretty sure I'll agree with it.

9 minutes ago, User said:

No, the creation of Israel did not cause oppression, subjugation, and dispossession to the Palestinians. 

Their going to war against Israel led to that. 

It's still happening today in the Westbank. I mean, even Israelis refer to themselves as settlers

If I told you 2+2 was 4 would you spend the next week arguing it actually means 22?

[User]

6 minutes ago, eyeball said:

If you're asking me to define these terms for you I'd say get a dictionary. I don't care which dictionary you subscribe to or use because I'm pretty sure I'll agree with it.

No, I was pretty clear. I guess you are just going to play games and obfuscate now. 

Here is what I asked you:

"1948... what was the dispossession, oppression and subjugation on the Palestinians by Israeli's?"

8 minutes ago, eyeball said:

It's still happening today in the Westbank. I mean, even Israelis refer to themselves as settlers

If I told you 2+2 was 4 would you spend the next week arguing it actually means 22?

How about you actually respond to the things said?

"Their going to war against Israel led to that. "

[eyeball]

5 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

It could have been. But the Palestinians and their Arab brethren decided otherwise.

Maybe it was the way Zionists came in with guns blazing.

First impressions are usually the most important ones.

[eyeball]

8 minutes ago, User said:

Here is what I asked you:

"1948... what was the dispossession, oppression and subjugation on the Palestinians by Israeli's?"

You have got to be kidding me. If you were actually capable of putting on a pair of Palestinian's shoes you would know this without even using to ask.  You precluded having to do that by utterly dehumanizing Palestinians.

8 minutes ago, User said:

How about you actually respond to the things said?

"Their going to war against Israel led to that. "

The way Israel was created is what started things.

We're clearly not on the same page or reading from the same book. In fact we're probably in completely different libraries.

 

Edited May 15 by eyeball

[User]

3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

You have got to be kidding me. If you were actually capable of putting on a pair of Palestinian's shoes you would know this without even using to ask.  You precluded having to do that by utterly dehumanizing Palestinians.

So... you can't answer? Acting appaled that I don't know the answer doesn't do anything. This is just a pathetic way of shouting LA LA LA LA LA LA LA and covering your ears to avoid hearing my question. 

4 minutes ago, eyeball said:

The way Israel was created is what started things.

We're clearly not on the same page or reading from the same book. In fact we're probably in completely different libraries.

Yes, we can play this dumb game going back to the caveman grunting starting things. 

No, the creation of Israel is not what led to any dispossession, oppression and subjugation of the Palestinians. They chose to go to war, they lost the war, their actions in response to the creation of Israel is what led down this path. Their continued actions, aggression, terrorism, and wars have kept them there. 

They could have chose to coexist with Isreal.

[WestCanMan]

14 hours ago, Videospirit said:

The Fall of Judea was the end of Jewish Sovereignty over the "promised land". The area was a territory of other nations(Babylon, Persia, Rome) etc. after that, not an independent sovereign state. It's pretty clear that any bestowal by God ended at that time, it was entirely the efforts of men that led to modern Israel.

1. Right, and in all this time, all the last 4,000 years of recorded history, there was never a sovereign territory known as Palestine.

The region was lumped under islamic control for the last 600 years by a foreign power, the ottomans, and then for a very brief period it was British Palestine, but it still wasn't a sovereign nation. 

2. Then Britain - who owned it - decided what to do with it. The UN ratified that. It was agreed upon. The nation of Israel was born legally.

3. Then on the first day of Israel's existence, 7 muslim armies (8 including Palestinians themselves), tried to commit a Pakistan-style genocide against the Israelis, just like the one from 8 moths earlier that killed 800,000 Sikhs and Hindus and permanently forced 8M Sikhs and Hindus from their homes. 

4. Israel gained some territory in their own defence, and that's perfectly legitimate. When people lose the way the muslim armies did, and it costs them dearly, it's called "getting hoisted on your own petard." People just laugh at you.

There is no more legitimate way for a nation to gain territory than to win it in a war where they were the defenders. 

Most people wouldn't feel sorry for a genocidal army that lost a war and just lost a few sq kms in the process. 

5. Don't act like the Palestinians would have given the mandate-specified territory of "Israel" back to the Jews if they won that war. Firstly, that map meant nothing to the - they didn't respect Israel's 1948 borders at all and that's a fact. Second, they were there to slaughter all the Jews. When they drew their plan up, there were no Jews left to give land back to. The border would be meaningless. It would just be a circle around a mass gravesite.

6. What you're saying is this: "If the muslims would have won that war in 1948, or in 1967, it would have been fair for them to slaughter everyone and take all the land, but the Jews successfully defended themselves, so they have to give that land back to the aggressors". That's your exact argument, but you never did the actual math in your head before so you never realized how stupid it sounds. 

Edited May 15 by WestCanMan

[Videospirit]

CDN FOX seems to be living in their own reality that contradicts actual reality and there's no talking sense into such foolishness so I've put them on complete ignore as arguing with them is a waste of time and they frankly don't deserve it. I'm not sure if they can still see my posts, but don't bother replying to me in the future, I won't see it. 

5 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

5. Don't act like the Palestinians would have given the mandate-specified territory of "Israel" back to the Jews if they won that war. They were there to slaughter all the Jews. When they drew their plan up, there were no Jews left to give land back to. 

Yes, All the jews in Arab occupied Palestine got exterminated while it was under Arab occupation after 1948. Oh wait... that didn't happen. You're a joke who has to imagine Arabs as genocidal boogeymen to justify your hatred of them. Stop acting like a bigot.

I'm honestly not sure what the world would be like today if the Arabs had won in 1948. Jews would certainly have a much better reputation in the world as Israel would never have existed to drag their name through the mud, but they likely wouldn't have a sovereign state of their own because they never would have formed a state of Israel in the first place and thus wouldn't have any legal claim to territory for the Arabs to "give back" to them.

3 hours ago, blackbird said:

No, Israel never lost the right to the land even though they may have lost use of the land temporarily in different periods of history.  The Scripture says God gave them the land for perpetuity.

So sold their lease, sold their sovereignty, does it really matter? Unless god personally descends to revoke the Palestinians lease, you got no legal argument.

[eyeball]

23 hours ago, User said:

1948... what was the dispossession, oppression and subjugation on the Palestinians by Israeli's?

The program of apartheid Israel has carried out against Palestinians ever since the creation of Israel.  Before that it was called terrorism but then it was legalized and supported by the UN, Britain and the US et al.

Did you know Canada advised Israel on how apartheid should be applied?  We were called upon to help design the program Israel followed given our extensive experience at dispossessing, oppressing and subjugating people while making it appear as if it were benign and beneficial.

Apparently optics mattered even then and I suppose we were perceived as being capable of putting some sort of moral shine to it all.  It sure seems to have dazzled you alright.

[eyeball]

44 minutes ago, User said:

They could have chose to coexist with Isreal.

They chose not to so Israel chose to force their coexistence instead and here we are.

 

[User]

6 minutes ago, eyeball said:

They chose not to so Israel chose to force their coexistence instead and here we are.

They did not just chose not to, they went to war against Israel with the purpose of destroying them. 

Israel fought for their survival. You call that "forcing their coexistence" well duh. Just come out and say it, you wanted Israel to get wiped out in 1948 and all the Jews killed. Didn't you?