Gaétan Posted March 31 Report Posted March 31 (edited) Why God permit the evil: John 9 As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. 2 His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?” 3 “Neither this man nor his parents sinned,” said Jesus, “but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him. 4 As long as it is day, we must do the works of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work. 5 While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.” There is no salvation without sacrifice, the easy way is not the right one. Mt 713 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. Edited 6 minutes ago by Gaétan Edited March 31 by Gaétan Quote
French Patriot Posted April 2 Report Posted April 2 On 3/31/2024 at 4:49 PM, Gaétan said: Why God permit the evil: Yahweh created evil for his pleasure, say the scriptures. God not only permits evil and sin, Christians applaud it as you go singing of Adam's sin as a happy fault and necessary to God's plan. Do you not mean what you say and sing? Quote
CrakHoBarbie Posted April 2 Report Posted April 2 It's impossible to "do" anything when one doest exist. Quote
Gaétan Posted April 2 Author Report Posted April 2 5 hours ago, French Patriot said: Yahweh created evil for his pleasure, say the scriptures. God not only permits evil and sin, Christians applaud it as you go singing of Adam's sin as a happy fault and necessary to God's plan. Do you not mean what you say and sing? Whatever happens to you is a choice that your subconscious makes for you, but you can change it through your thoughts, and using certain methods, God allows evil for you, your ancestors, and your people to use for God's work to manifest in you. Quote
French Patriot Posted April 3 Report Posted April 3 18 hours ago, Gaétan said: Whatever happens to you is a choice that your subconscious makes for you, but you can change it through your thoughts, and using certain methods, God allows evil for you, your ancestors, and your people to use for God's work to manifest in you. You are a liar and do not have a clue about God, and you have run from too many moral issues to be worth anyone's time. Moral Cowards are proof of Christianity's worthlessness and harm to decent thinking. Quote
Gaétan Posted April 4 Author Report Posted April 4 10 hours ago, French Patriot said: You are a liar and do not have a clue about God, and you have run from too many moral issues to be worth anyone's time. Moral Cowards are proof of Christianity's worthlessness and harm to decent thinking. You are a troll Quote
French Patriot Posted April 4 Report Posted April 4 14 hours ago, Gaétan said: You are a troll Not true, but better than being a Moral Coward. Quote
TreeBeard Posted September 11 Report Posted September 11 On 3/31/2024 at 1:49 PM, Gaétan said: There is no salvation without sacrifice, the easy way is not the right one. Who made it thus? Could God have done it differently? 1 Quote
User Posted September 11 Report Posted September 11 On 4/3/2024 at 8:37 AM, French Patriot said: Moral Cowards are proof of Christianity's worthlessness and harm to decent thinking. Moral cowards exist across all demographics... Quote LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE."
French Patriot Posted September 14 Report Posted September 14 On 9/11/2024 at 2:00 PM, User said: Moral cowards exist across all demographics... Shame on the Creator of such trash. What else can one expect from a really incompetent God. All while Christian praise his perfection in creation. Even the poor half formed self aborting babies in the wombs. Quote
User Posted September 14 Report Posted September 14 1 hour ago, French Patriot said: Shame on the Creator of such trash. What else can one expect from a really incompetent God. All while Christian praise his perfection in creation. Even the poor half formed self aborting babies in the wombs. Apparently, you don't grasp the concept of free choice. Quote LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE."
French Patriot Posted September 15 Report Posted September 15 21 hours ago, User said: Apparently, you don't grasp the concept of free choice. Learn of your genocidal God hero as he denies free will. Quotes and all for the stupid like you who cannot do decent apologetics. Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design? Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byHYeHN4ZUQ Those quotes seem to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us. The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures. If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith? Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm? Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please? I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed. Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did. What is your choice of those two options? Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars. I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians. What do you think is the truth? Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe? Quote
User Posted September 15 Report Posted September 15 24 minutes ago, French Patriot said: If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith? I always love this paradox folks like you put yourselves in. You attack the Bible, you attack Christianity, you don't believe any of it... but then you just got done trying to tell me what the Bible says. So... now you believe in God and that he didn't give us free will or you are just finding stuff to try to argue about? Note: I don't argue against linking to other people's videos. Feel free to cite whatever scripture you want and your position on it here, and I will respond to that. 48 minutes ago, French Patriot said: If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith? I am not here trying to convince you to believe anything. You are clearly someone hostile to Christianity with no sincere interest in learning anything about it. 49 minutes ago, French Patriot said: Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm? No. 49 minutes ago, French Patriot said: Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please? He does not. 50 minutes ago, French Patriot said: Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did. Cite whatever scripture you are sourcing here to base this argument on. 50 minutes ago, French Patriot said: What is your choice of those two options? I reject your unproven and unsupported assertion. 51 minutes ago, French Patriot said: What do you think is the truth? That you have no clue what you are talking about. 1 Quote LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE."
Yakuda Posted September 17 Report Posted September 17 On 4/2/2024 at 2:34 PM, CrakHoBarbie said: It's impossible to "do" anything when one doest exist. The expert at doing nothing. ^^^^^^ Quote
Yakuda Posted September 17 Report Posted September 17 On 3/31/2024 at 4:49 PM, Gaétan said: Why God permit the evil: John 9 As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. 2 His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?” 3 “Neither this man nor his parents sinned,” said Jesus, “but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him. 4 As long as it is day, we must do the works of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work. 5 While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.” There is no salvation without sacrifice, the easy way is not the right one. Mt 713 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. Edited 6 minutes ago by Gaétan Evil doesn't really exist its just the name we give to the complete absence of God. It's akin to the term cold. Cold doesnt really exist it's just the name we give to the absence of heat. Temperature is a measure of the amount of heat. Cold can not be measured because it doesnt exist. We see the effects of less heat in ice. The effect of less God is evil. 1 Quote
slady61 Posted September 17 Report Posted September 17 6 hours ago, Yakuda said: Evil doesn't really exist its just the name we give to the complete absence of God. It's akin to the term cold. Cold doesnt really exist it's just the name we give to the absence of heat. Temperature is a measure of the amount of heat. Cold can not be measured because it doesnt exist. We see the effects of less heat in ice. The effect of less God is evil. Well, for a religious person, maybe that definition of evil makes sense, but for atheists, evil is just going against the moral codes we’ve created throughout our history. Plus, if the absence of God is considered evil, why is He absent? If He loves us so much, why is He absent and allowing evil into our lives? I know we have free will and all that, but it sounds hypocritical to say that God loves us so much while leaving us to live in this evil world 1 Quote
Yakuda Posted September 18 Report Posted September 18 (edited) 17 hours ago, slady61 said: Well, for a religious person, maybe that definition of evil makes sense, but for atheists, evil is just going against the moral codes we’ve created throughout our history. Plus, if the absence of God is considered evil, why is He absent? If He loves us so much, why is He absent and allowing evil into our lives? I know we have free will and all that, but it sounds hypocritical to say that God loves us so much while leaving us to live in this evil world You clearly don't know what it means to have free will if you say, "I know we have free will and all that, but...", but nothing. You have free will period. If someone asked you, "What is 1+1"? and you answer, "2 but...", it makes no sense. Btw God isnt absent people make themselves absent from him by use of their free will. God will never force himself on anyone because that isnt love. You either grasp that or you don't. Would you call forcing yourself onto someone else love? That's exactly what atheist thinks God should have done. Edited September 18 by Yakuda 1 1 Quote
SkyHigh Posted September 18 Report Posted September 18 On 9/15/2024 at 4:31 PM, User said: I always love this paradox folks like you put yourselves in. You attack the Bible, you attack Christianity, you don't believe any of it... but then you just got done trying to tell me what the Bible says. It's called an internal critique. One does not have to believe in their interlocutors meta physics to show the logical fallacies there in. Using the bible( or any holy book someone believes in) to show the ignorance of the belief system is a completely valid form of argumentation. I can call out L Ron Hubbard on his bull without getting audited. 1 1 Quote
User Posted September 18 Report Posted September 18 1 hour ago, SkyHigh said: It's called an internal critique. One does not have to believe in their interlocutors meta physics to show the logical fallacies there in. Using the bible( or any holy book someone believes in) to show the ignorance of the belief system is a completely valid form of argumentation. I can call out L Ron Hubbard on his bull without getting audited. That is fair, I think I will amend my statement to be more clear on thinking it is odd that someone who thinks so little of The Bible and Christianity and is quite clearly very ignorant of both, thinks they are now capable of having complex and nuanced discussions on what The Bible actually says to the point as to proclaim what I should and should not be believing. 1 1 Quote LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE."
SkyHigh Posted September 18 Report Posted September 18 5 minutes ago, User said: That is fair, I think I will amend my statement to be more clear on thinking it is odd that someone who thinks so little of The Bible and Christianity and is quite clearly very ignorant of both, thinks they are now capable of having complex and nuanced discussions on what The Bible actually says to the point as to proclaim what I should and should not be believing. Unfortunately it's often the professed christians that lack knowledge of the Bible and Christianity. So when one of the many glaring contradictions are pointed out they're forced to hide behind silly statements like "they use the bible when they don't believe the bible" or "they just don't understand the "true" meaning or the context of the Bible" These are simply tactics used to officiate in order to not respond directly to things in the Bible that go against the reality we all (christians, atheists, muslims, hindu, etc ..) share. 1 Quote
blackbird Posted September 18 Report Posted September 18 On 9/17/2024 at 7:08 AM, Yakuda said: Evil doesn't really exist its just the name we give to the complete absence of God. quote What does the Bible say about good versus evil? Answer Among the most universal beliefs across all humanity is the concept of “good versus evil.” Every culture in every era has held to some version of this struggle. The definitions of the terms good and evil vary wildly, as do opinions on how they interact. Still, belief in some difference between that which is “good” and that which is “evil” pervades all of mankind. When all options and ideas are compared, only the Bible provides a perspective on good and evil that is fully coherent and fully livable (Psalm 25:6–15). According to the Bible, “good versus evil” is not a matter of opinion. Nor is it an evenly matched struggle between two beings or forces. Scripture does not indicate that the boundaries of good and evil change. Nor does it claim the conflict between them will last forever. Of special importance is that the Bible does not suggest some people are good, while other people are evil. Rather, the Bible teaches that good and evil are defined in reference to a perfect and unchanging God. Every person must grapple individually with the presence and temptations of evil. Scripture notes that all evil, without exception, will ultimately be punished and defeated. And it tells us there is an ultimate standard of goodness to which we should aspire—a standard grounded in a person, rather than a theory. Good and Evil Are Objectively Distinct According to the Bible, there is a real difference between good and evil. Some worldviews claim all moral distinctions are based purely on preference. Atheism, for instance, allows no objective basis for defining anything as “good” or “evil.” In a godless universe, there are only things a person prefers and things a person does not prefer. This is a key reason why philosophies embracing atheism always tend toward violence and tyranny: there is no sense of higher authority and no reason to moderate the whims of those in power. The idea that defining good and evil depends on preferences or situations is commonly called moral relativism. Scripture rejects this idea as false. The Bible defines some things as “good” and other things as “evil” (Isaiah 5:20; Romans 12:9). This dichotomy is reflected in the consistent use of themes such as light versus darkness (Isaiah 9:2; Matthew 4:16; John 1:5; Ephesians 5:8). The ultimate fate of all people depends on whether they are aligned with a good God or opposed to Him (1 Corinthians 6:9–11; Revelation 21:8). Discerning between good and evil is possible only in reference to a single, unchanging standard: the perfect nature of God. God is not subject to morality, since He is the source and benchmark for it. Nor is morality subject to change, since God’s perfect nature is eternal and unchanging. Counters such as Euthyphro’s dilemma fail, since they do not distinguish between an eternal, unchanging God and the fickle deities of ancient Greek religion. Good and Evil Are Not Balanced A frequent component of fiction and fantasy is the idea that good and evil are equally balanced, evenly matched forces. According to this view, neither is ultimately in control. Either may eventually win. This is the concept of dualism, which suggests a perpetual balance between the forces of good and evil. In some cases, dualism implies that opposing beings, such as God and Satan, are deadlocked in a struggle for control and power. Some worldviews teach that all good and evil will eventually be balanced. This is related to Eastern ideas such as karma, which implies that good and evil are inherently imbalanced but will one day be evened out. Scripture rejects dualism as false. The Bible indicates that God is absolutely supreme and in no danger whatsoever of being defeated (Job 42:2; Psalm 89:8; Galatians 6:7). What Satan does, he is “allowed” to do, but he cannot act to overpower God (Job 1:12; Revelation 9:1; 20:7). Biblically, evil is destined only for defeat and destruction. Not one single act of evil will escape judgment; every sin will either be paid for by Christ on the cross (2 Corinthians 5:21) or by those who reject Christ (John 3:36) as they experience an eternity in hell (Revelation 20:11–15). unquote For the full article go to: What does the Bible say about good versus evil? | GotQuestions.org I find search engines and these articles extremely useful. Where else would one learn this much in such a short time with minimal reading. One can also utilize the scripture references to dig deeper into the information. 1 Quote
User Posted September 18 Report Posted September 18 49 minutes ago, SkyHigh said: Unfortunately it's often the professed christians that lack knowledge of the Bible and Christianity. So when one of the many glaring contradictions are pointed out they're forced to hide behind silly statements like "they use the bible when they don't believe the bible" or "they just don't understand the "true" meaning or the context of the Bible" These are simply tactics used to officiate in order to not respond directly to things in the Bible that go against the reality we all (christians, atheists, muslims, hindu, etc ..) share. You don't have much of a leg to stand on here as you left our last discussion where you were absurdly trying to equate The Bible to Harry Potter. 1 1 Quote LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE."
Yakuda Posted September 18 Report Posted September 18 36 minutes ago, blackbird said: quote What does the Bible say about good versus evil? Answer Among the most universal beliefs across all humanity is the concept of “good versus evil.” Every culture in every era has held to some version of this struggle. The definitions of the terms good and evil vary wildly, as do opinions on how they interact. Still, belief in some difference between that which is “good” and that which is “evil” pervades all of mankind. When all options and ideas are compared, only the Bible provides a perspective on good and evil that is fully coherent and fully livable (Psalm 25:6–15). According to the Bible, “good versus evil” is not a matter of opinion. Nor is it an evenly matched struggle between two beings or forces. Scripture does not indicate that the boundaries of good and evil change. Nor does it claim the conflict between them will last forever. Of special importance is that the Bible does not suggest some people are good, while other people are evil. Rather, the Bible teaches that good and evil are defined in reference to a perfect and unchanging God. Every person must grapple individually with the presence and temptations of evil. Scripture notes that all evil, without exception, will ultimately be punished and defeated. And it tells us there is an ultimate standard of goodness to which we should aspire—a standard grounded in a person, rather than a theory. Good and Evil Are Objectively Distinct According to the Bible, there is a real difference between good and evil. Some worldviews claim all moral distinctions are based purely on preference. Atheism, for instance, allows no objective basis for defining anything as “good” or “evil.” In a godless universe, there are only things a person prefers and things a person does not prefer. This is a key reason why philosophies embracing atheism always tend toward violence and tyranny: there is no sense of higher authority and no reason to moderate the whims of those in power. The idea that defining good and evil depends on preferences or situations is commonly called moral relativism. Scripture rejects this idea as false. The Bible defines some things as “good” and other things as “evil” (Isaiah 5:20; Romans 12:9). This dichotomy is reflected in the consistent use of themes such as light versus darkness (Isaiah 9:2; Matthew 4:16; John 1:5; Ephesians 5:8). The ultimate fate of all people depends on whether they are aligned with a good God or opposed to Him (1 Corinthians 6:9–11; Revelation 21:8). Discerning between good and evil is possible only in reference to a single, unchanging standard: the perfect nature of God. God is not subject to morality, since He is the source and benchmark for it. Nor is morality subject to change, since God’s perfect nature is eternal and unchanging. Counters such as Euthyphro’s dilemma fail, since they do not distinguish between an eternal, unchanging God and the fickle deities of ancient Greek religion. Good and Evil Are Not Balanced A frequent component of fiction and fantasy is the idea that good and evil are equally balanced, evenly matched forces. According to this view, neither is ultimately in control. Either may eventually win. This is the concept of dualism, which suggests a perpetual balance between the forces of good and evil. In some cases, dualism implies that opposing beings, such as God and Satan, are deadlocked in a struggle for control and power. Some worldviews teach that all good and evil will eventually be balanced. This is related to Eastern ideas such as karma, which implies that good and evil are inherently imbalanced but will one day be evened out. Scripture rejects dualism as false. The Bible indicates that God is absolutely supreme and in no danger whatsoever of being defeated (Job 42:2; Psalm 89:8; Galatians 6:7). What Satan does, he is “allowed” to do, but he cannot act to overpower God (Job 1:12; Revelation 9:1; 20:7). Biblically, evil is destined only for defeat and destruction. Not one single act of evil will escape judgment; every sin will either be paid for by Christ on the cross (2 Corinthians 5:21) or by those who reject Christ (John 3:36) as they experience an eternity in hell (Revelation 20:11–15). unquote For the full article go to: What does the Bible say about good versus evil? | GotQuestions.org I find search engines and these articles extremely useful. Where else would one learn this much in such a short time with minimal reading. One can also utilize the scripture references to dig deeper into the information. And? Quote
SkyHigh Posted September 18 Report Posted September 18 8 minutes ago, User said: You don't have much of a leg to stand on here as you left our last discussion where you were absurdly trying to equate The Bible to Harry Potter. Straight to obfuscation because you can't actually respond to my points And you're lying, you said the Bible was non fiction I asked for support. What I said was that if you can't back up your assertion and can only say it's true because it says it's true, then by the exact same logic, I can say Voldemort is real because the book says it is, or better yet let's use Homer's odyssey, that predates the bible Quote
User Posted September 18 Report Posted September 18 6 minutes ago, SkyHigh said: Straight to obfuscation because you can't actually respond to my points And you're lying, you said the Bible was non fiction I asked for support. What I said was that if you can't back up your assertion and can only say it's true because it says it's true, then by the exact same logic, I can say Voldemort is real because the book says it is, or better yet let's use Homer's odyssey, that predates the bible You made no points other than to try to be deliberately insulting. Nothing to respond to. However, if there was something in particular you said that wasn't, and you were really hoping for a direct response to, feel free to point that out. No, you compared The Bible to Harry Potter first, I pointed out it was clearly non-fiction in response to that. I did back up my assertion... then you ran away. Quote LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE."
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