Ukraine Can't Win the War

[User]

16 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Yup.

What? You don't think peace would be a good thing?

You don't think peace is a good thing. You very narrowly think surrending to Russia is a good thing and support their war otherwise. 

We had peace before Russia started this war. We would have peace if Russia ended this war. 

And if peace comes through NATO throwing vastly more support behind Ukraine to force Russia to end this war, do you support that?

 

[Nationalist]

1 hour ago, User said:

You don't think peace is a good thing. You very narrowly think surrending to Russia is a good thing and support their war otherwise. 

We had peace before Russia started this war. We would have peace if Russia ended this war. 

And if peace comes through NATO throwing vastly more support behind Ukraine to force Russia to end this war, do you support that?

 

If it works...yes.

[Videospirit]

4 hours ago, User said:

Note: Putin did not invade Ukraine while Trump was President. 

I mean, Russia's war in the Donbass was in full swing during the Trump Presidency. Sure you can blame Obama for that mess, but Trump didn't break from Obama's policy in any significant way. They both gave the same amount of lethal aid to Ukraine, even if Trump expanded the variety a tiny bit. Trump wasn't any harsher on Putin than Obama was.

And Ukraine didn't outright ask to be allowed to join NATO immediately during Trump's Presidency either. Putin started military buildup for the invasion pretty much immediately after he learned about that. All signs point to Trump having nothing to do with it(Well, aside from the fact that Ukraine didn't trust Trump because, yeah, what kind of fool other than American voters trusts Trump?)

[User]

25 minutes ago, Videospirit said:

They both gave the same amount of lethal aid to Ukraine, even if Trump expanded the variety a tiny bit. Trump wasn't any harsher on Putin than Obama was.

No, the Javelin missiles were not a "tiny bit" of a difference. 

Even then... that isn't even the point. You tried to claim:

"All evidence shows Trump has no interest in resisting Russian Expansionism."

You were simply wrong. 

 

[Videospirit]

1 hour ago, User said:

No, the Javelin missiles were not a "tiny bit" of a difference. 

Even then... that isn't even the point. You tried to claim:

"All evidence shows Trump has no interest in resisting Russian Expansionism."

You were simply wrong. 

 

How so? What did Trump do to resist Russian Expansionism? He sold American weapons for profit to Ukraine, but he probably would have sold American weapons to Russia too if he'd been allowed so that doesn't count. Even the aid that congress tried to give to Ukraine pissed trump off and he tried to use it to bribe Ukraine to get some personal benefit from it. He certainly didn't go out of his way to make sure Ukraine was in a position to resist a Russian invasion, and he let Russia run all over Syria.

He does seem to not be a complete tool subservient to Russia, but his attitude in office has always been how to most profit immediately, without any consideration for long term stability, and no concern for Russian expansionism. He treats Americas allies the same way he treats their rivals.

Trump can't even comprehend the sense of giving military aid to Ukraine for free. He literally cannot imagine a single scenario where that would be a good idea.

[athos]

12 hours ago, Nationalist said:

If it works...yes.

 

American Patriots in Ukraine on the right side of history

 

Edited November 4, 2024 by athos

[Nationalist]

6 hours ago, athos said:

 

American Patriots in Ukraine on the right side of history

 

Huh...interesting. I don't agree with or even like what this guy claims to have done. It was none of his business and should have stayed out of it.

I do sense some hanky panty though. It all has a scent of CIA black op. For instance, what's the point of dragging his family in the US into this?

Edited November 4, 2024 by Nationalist

[User]

On 11/3/2024 at 12:28 PM, Nationalist said:

If it works...yes.

And your past comments where you have opposed NATO involvement and support or further aid? (or any aid at all?)

 

[User]

20 hours ago, Videospirit said:

How so?

What is this routine you are playing here?

I just told you. He authorized more lethal aid to Ukraine. He outright threatened Putin if he were to go after Ukraine. This was reported on and confirmed by sources. 

20 hours ago, Videospirit said:

and he let Russia run all over Syria.

He did not let them do anything. Syria was in a civil war, and Russia was there on the side of the Assad regime with their permission and invitation. It had nothing to do with us letting them do anything there or not, unless you are not advocating we go to war against Russia?

 

 

[Nationalist]

36 minutes ago, User said:

And your past comments where you have opposed NATO involvement and support or further aid? (or any aid at all?)

 

It's no secret I have little use for NATO.

And?

[User]

13 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

It's no secret I have little use for NATO.

And?

You are duplicitous as usual. You claimed "if it works" but oppose it. 

 

[Videospirit]

1 hour ago, User said:

I just told you. He authorized more lethal aid to Ukraine. He outright threatened Putin if he were to go after Ukraine. This was reported on and confirmed by sources. 

Citation Needed. The sources I investigated did not list a single instance of Donald Trump personally approving lethal aid to Ukraine that wasn't just him not vetoing aid that Congress passed. He did approve of Ukraine purchase requests for lethal weapons, but that isn't the same thing. 

As for the "Trump Threatened Putin." comment you speak of. Russia has not confirmed Trump ever threatened them. Trump has provided no transcripts from the American side that he threatened Putin. I'm skeptical of the truthfulness of this claim. Regardless, Trump doesn't value his promises and lies every other time he opens his mouth, so even if he had said that there's no guarantee he meant it. Actions speak louder than words regardless, and Trump's actions don't support him opposing Russia. Hell the conversation where he claimed to threaten Putin was started with Trump bragging about how close his relationship with Russia China and North Korea was and how much he respected their leaders. 

[Nationalist]

47 minutes ago, User said:

You are duplicitous as usual. You claimed "if it works" but oppose it. 

 

Bullshit.

Why is support for NATO even an issue? As if it's some sacred prerequisite.

[Army Guy]

Looks like Russia is getting even more support another 80,000 Chechnyians. All becasue Russian flew one of their own drones into their own Spec ops school...This conflict is getting crazier by the minute....How does NATO step over that land mine...What is it going to take for the west to wake up and do more, my guess is NATO is not going to do much...

Following North Korea, another country wants to help Putin with 80,000 soldiers

[User]

32 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Bullshit.

Why is support for NATO even an issue? As if it's some sacred prerequisite.

I did not ask if you merely supported NATO; I asked quite specifically about supporting NATO's aid to Ukraine and, even more specifically, the US's contribution to that aid. 

Do you support this now?

[User]

9 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Looks like Russia is getting even more support another 80,000 Chechnyians. All becasue Russian flew one of their own drones into their own Spec ops school...This conflict is getting crazier by the minute....How does NATO step over that land mine...What is it going to take for the west to wake up and do more, my guess is NATO is not going to do much...

Following North Korea, another country wants to help Putin with 80,000 soldiers

Sure thing, and they will consume the Ukrainians with fireballs from their eyes and bolts of lightning from their a$$es.

The Chechnyians have already been sending troops to fight this war. This is a hollow claim that doesn't hold up to any scrutiny if you look at their population. 

So, now all of a sudden 1/5 of all their adult male population is going to up and join this war?

Seriously man, you will go beyond all sanity, logic, and reason and just believe anything it seems at this point. 

[User]

55 minutes ago, Videospirit said:

The sources I investigated did not list a single instance of Donald Trump personally approving lethal aid to Ukraine

Personally approving?

It was his administration that authorized it. This level of Sea Lioning is so insufferable. 

https://www.dsca.mil/press-media/major-arms-sales/ukraine-javelin-missiles-and-command-launch-units

 

"U.S. President Donald Trump will seek at least another $250 million in security aid for Ukraine in his 2020 budget request to Congress, including lethal Javelin anti-tank weapons, according to a senior Pentagon official."

https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2019/12/04/trump-to-seek-250m-in-new-lethal-aid-to-ukraine/

57 minutes ago, Videospirit said:

Russia has not confirmed Trump ever threatened them.

Russia? So... you want Russia to confirm this now? Holy crap, you are not a serious person. I have repeatedly provided the sources for this here. 

"Vindman wouldn’t disclose if Trump and Putin spoke about a renewed Ukrainian invasion, saying that was privileged information. But he did assert that warning Russia against escalating the war “was a regular topic.” Trump canceled a meeting with Putin at the G20 in 2018 over Russia shooting at and capturing Ukrainian sailors in the Kerch Strait.

A former Trump administration official, granted anonymity to detail direct presidential-level discussions, said Trump in at least one call told Putin that Russia couldn’t wade deeper into Ukraine because he had approved the transfer of anti-tank missiles to Kyiv. “It was in the context of ‘you can’t do what you did with Obama,’” the official said, noting that the annexation of Crimea and the “little green men” in the Donbas happened on that administration’s watch."

https://www.politico.com/newsletters/national-security-daily/2023/05/11/trump-used-to-talk-about-ukraine-invasion-with-putin-00096394

[Army Guy]

18 minutes ago, User said:

Sure thing, and they will consume the Ukrainians with fireballs from their eyes and bolts of lightning from their a$$es.

The Chechnyians have already been sending troops to fight this war. This is a hollow claim that doesn't hold up to any scrutiny if you look at their population. 

So, now all of a sudden 1/5 of all their adult male population is going to up and join this war?

Seriously man, you will go beyond all sanity, logic, and reason and just believe anything it seems at this point. 

I don't think that was covered in the article, no mention of lightning bolts or fire balls tho....

Yes they have but not in these numbers....

It is just a news article, gear the f*ck down....thats what Chechnyians said they would provide....

will it become true or not we will have to see won't we....But to discount it all because it does not fit your narrative is just Dumb...But then again so are all your statements about this conflict...

[Nationalist]

46 minutes ago, User said:

I did not ask if you merely supported NATO; I asked quite specifically about supporting NATO's aid to Ukraine and, even more specifically, the US's contribution to that aid. 

Do you support this now?

No. I don't think NATO should have been involved at all. 

[User]

5 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

No. I don't think NATO should have been involved at all. 

So, like I said, your notion of "peace" is that Russia conquers Ukraine. 

[User]

26 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

will it become true or not we will have to see won't we....But to discount it all because it does not fit your narrative is just Dumb...But then again so are all your statements about this conflict...

I discounted it because it has no basis in reality. Its a hollow claim from someone not capable of delivering. He might as well claim he will shoot fire bolts from his arse... (its the line from Braveheart for crying out loud)

The fact that you can't figure that out is on you. 

[Nationalist]

18 minutes ago, User said:

So, like I said, your notion of "peace" is that Russia conquers Ukraine. 

No. That's not what I said.

[User]

2 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

No. That's not what I said.

So... what happens when Ukraine doesn't have the support of NATO?

 

 

[Nationalist]

1 minute ago, User said:

So... what happens when Ukraine doesn't have the support of NATO?

 

 

They fight their own battles.

[NAME REMOVED]

700,000 Russian casualties of war! 

 

1% of Russian men have been either killed or injured fighting in the war.

That number increases to 2-3% of all men 18-40.

Edited November 4, 2024 by DUI_Offender