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What is wrong with today's Conservatives?


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2 hours ago, myata said:

So from one end of the mouth you talk about "force" and the other, blocking all assistance to those who actually stand up to the thug?

I don't agree with assistance into perpetuity.

Eventually, they will need to negotiate. There is no way they win this war, and Ukraine knows it.

Fighting only buys them time. Negotiations buy them peace.

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24 minutes ago, herbie said:

In reality, he crushed them when everyone else was paralyzed with their thumbs up their arse. That's what leaders do, they act when someone must. They aren't obsequious panderers to every handful of malcontents.

He made no attempt to difuse the peaceful protest. He hid out and chirped insults . . . like the gutless dork he is.  Cut it any way you want herbie, Trudeau just doesn't have the depth to deal with anything other than photo op's and sparkle socks.

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On 2/19/2024 at 12:56 AM, myata said:

Putin jails his political opponents - and then, he kills them. This is Iran; North Korea. So why do some Conservatives tacitly admire him? ("genius": and the resounding silence). Why wouldn't they want to stand up to him?

Astounding. Perplexing. And shameful. There are no words that can explain and excuse this. Disgusting too.

The people that defend Putin have been manipulated by Trump and the pro-Trump media pundits to support him, even though he's been aggressively anti-West for decades. 

Trump likes him because Putin helped get him elected and they're both narcissistic domineering bullies.

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16 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

The people that defend Putin have been manipulated by Trump and the pro-Trump media pundits to support him, even though he's been aggressively anti-West for decades. 

Trump likes him because Putin helped get him elected and they're both narcissistic domineering bullies.

Completely unrelated but i noticed amazon has a great sale on tinfoil right now...  

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I lived across the ottawa river from Quebec. Our family dentist lived there. He and his wife were in the round up. Mainly English area at the time, but with pockets of French.

Edited by PIK
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23 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I think that you forgot about Pat King, listed as an organizer.  Several others who denigrated Islam...

You sure like to slant the truth...

They seemed to me to be a bunch of blue-collar guys, for the most part. 

Blue-collar guys have a lot of opinions that would offend those who work in offices and are used to an environment where all opinions and views are very, very heavily self-censored upon threat of the doom of HR coming down upon them. Their views are considered even more outrageous by university academics and those who have passed through their hands.

Nothing wrong with denigrating Islam. Would you consider it wrong to denigrate Christianity? Catholicism? 

20 hours ago, Nefarious Banana said:

Again, a real leader would have met with them, would have listened to their concerns and grievences, and tried to find a comprimise and solution.  Trudeau is not a leader, he hid out with his sudden case of 'convenient covid'  . . . the country and the world saw him as he really is . . . and the country is weary of him.  Very weary.

Given the insults and demands they'd made no leader would have met with them. There's no polite discourse possible with people who scream "F*ck Trudeau" on a daily basis.

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16 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

That's what it boils down to for me.

A leader understands he is of service to the people.

There's a humility that must come with the job.

Like Donald Trump?

16 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

To quote Obama, you must "be willing to be the dumbest person in the room".

Well, something Trump is good at.

16 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Surrounding yourself not by yes men, but by competent experts who will get the job done.

Like uh - *giggle* - Donald Trump?

All of which I write because you're a Trump supporter.

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24 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Wow that must have been a little intense.  I was alive but on the west coast

I was just a kid. I remember FLQ graffiti in the walls and chalked on the sidewalk in front of our English school, though. And watching TV showing soldiers downtown (where I was too young to ever go anyway). I asked my father if there were going to be any tanks on our street because I really wanted to climb up and look inside but alas there was no real action on the South Shore. My father was working at the base in Longueuil, though. The gates sprouted armed guards.

Edited by I am Groot
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24 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Given the insults and demands they'd made no leader would have met with them. There's no polite discourse possible with people who scream "F*ck Trudeau" on a daily basis.

Sure there is. You just have to put your big boy pants on and talk 

Leaders from all over the world have met with groups that hate them.  It's  the first step to working things out. You sit down and you start to talk.

But to be blunt - his time to talk with them was before the convoy even started to roll. He could have avoided the whole thing easy as hell.  Always remember - he told them to eff off before they started saying that to him.

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9 hours ago, I am Groot said:

1. They seemed to me to be a bunch of blue-collar guys, for the most part. 

2. Nothing wrong with denigrating Islam.

3. Would you consider it wrong to denigrate Christianity? Catholicism? 

4. Given the insults and demands they'd made no leader would have met with them. There's no polite discourse possible with people who scream "F*ck Trudeau" on a daily basis.

1. I don't believe this. I have a lot of working class friends, if I can assume your meaning, and none of them possess clearly considered racial theories, let alone would speak them, let alone would video themselves talking about them.

2. Ok, if you think so, but people could reasonably call someone a racist for doing that.  That's the point we were talking about, I think, Perspektiv saying that the charges were not well founded.

3. Of course.

4. The big problem was that their list of demands was looney tunes, and showed that they weren't able to be reasonable.

Edited by Michael Hardner
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1 minute ago, CdnFox said:

Leaders from all over the world have met with groups that hate them.  It's  the first step to working things out. You sit down and you start to talk.

With most/all Canada and a good portion of the US watching, Trudeau missed his chance to be a leader. All he had to do was meet with them, maybe multiple times, whatever it takes to difuse the situation and work things out.  It may be uncomfortable for a leader to do this, but he wouldn't be there all alone, and with the public watching him try to work things out . . . respect would grow.  He came off as weak and cowardly with the whole country watching.  No respect there and it sure shows in this day and age.  He is what he is . . . . a cowardly dork.

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1 hour ago, Moonlight Graham said:

It's a fact that Russian disinformation campaigns etc tried to sway people to vote Trump over Clinton and Biden.  You think that makes Trump upset?

I don't think he cared one way or another. They did very little. Now they're saying they prefer biden.

And whether he liked them or not there's about a million miles difference between that and showing he's some master strategist working on behalf of putin and russia in a secret alliance.  Yeash.

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9 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Negotiations buy them peace.

You can lie to yourself, but not to the objective reality. "Negotiate", with who? With Hitler, negotiate? How do you negotiate with Hitlers? With an aggressive bloodthirsty alien, in what language would you like to "negotiate" and on what shared conceptual basis? They're weaker I'll eat them after or during negotiations. They're stronger they'll kick my ass and drive me out to rot and decay. What "negotiations" where do you see them, in this simple picture? This is how it worked last time with Hitler, but you forgot?

No, one cannot be that naive. You're only lying. Trying to spit and glue together logical ends that just cannot stay, because they are the opposites.

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9 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

I don't agree with assistance into perpetuity.

Eventually, they will need to negotiate.

And you aren't answering the question, squeezing out of it: which one is it when you're facing a brutal, aggressive bully bent on destroying all that you stood for: the force; or "don't agree"? Because it's not just "them", if the bully doesn't go anywhere, it's you who will be facing him next time. Can one be that naive to not get it by now? No, little chance. Just lying.

Edited by myata
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On 2/19/2024 at 12:56 AM, myata said:

Putin jails his political opponents - and then, he kills them. This is Iran; North Korea. So why do some Conservatives tacitly admire him? ("genius": and the resounding silence). Why wouldn't they want to stand up to him?

Astounding. Perplexing. And shameful. There are no words that can explain and excuse this. Disgusting too.

It's not perplexing.  They're sheep.

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10 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

They're sheep.

It's still mindboggling that in this age, with all the information at their fingertips and with no overwhelming reason like the debilitating recession last century, seemingly intelligent folks choose to turn their brains off, consciously and deliberately, and follow dumb, patently deceptive preachings a bombastic lying buffoon against all the facts and evidence from the reality. How do they get to it? What's the benefit, in mindless jumping and cheering? And they used to praise themselves on being critical and independent. Astounding. Just wow.

Edited by myata
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48 minutes ago, myata said:

if the bully doesn't go anywhere, it's you who will be facing him next time.

That would be nuclear warfare if so.

Ukraine war should have never happened.

The US respects China's position on Taiwan. China also has a military powerful enough to inflict heavy handed damage to the US, and totally destroy Taiwan or grind their economy to a halt, in toying with them regarding their power.

China is the epitome of a bully. Where is the US denouncing this? 

It doesn't respect Russia, and as a result for this had Ukraine talking far too confidently thinking they would get heavy handed backup from the US.

Ukraine is paying a heavy price for this "standing up to a bully", which is nothing more than the US goal of defeating Russia via proxy war.

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On 2/19/2024 at 8:12 PM, Moonbox said:

It's not even a push to silence dissenting voices.  It was a push to move out nuisances.   Nobody from the Freedumb convoy was silenced. Tamara Lich is still yap yap yapping away.  Alexander Navalny is dead.  That you're even trying to draw the comparison is pathetic.  

The other controls the media, has near-absolute power, and murders and jails anyone who dissents.  In Canada, we have a dopey mop-head who has no idea what he's doing, and who goofed up spectacularly.  He doesn't have more control after the Emergencies Act.  He has less.  

Trudeau is not Putin.  He doesn't murder political opponents.  But Trudeau isn't an ethical politician, he did hardly anything against Chinese election interference that benefited his power until it went public and then he tried to block any investigation, his punishment of JWR's whistleblowing of his own corruption was abhorrent, the minor crimes the freedom convoy committed (illegally parking in the street, noise nuisances, blocking a bridge) does not legitimize his abuse of power by using the Emergencies Act.

Putin is much worse than Trudeau, but they're both power-hungry and controlling narcissists who punish dissent and don't respect democracy.  They lie constantly and don't want to be held accountable for anything.  People who generally support either of them are crappy people in my estimation.

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The proof:

You use all of the force available and necessary to stop an aggressive thug on a murderous rampage against your neighbor: because if not stopped, next he'll come for you, or yours. Obviously. The same one, whom "the man" seems to admire, including publicly. By the way.

Or, you are against assisting your neighbor to defend themselves, from the thug.

The two cannot be true at the same time. Which one? Lying and wiggling won't work here. Respect Hitler and then he wouldn't invade you (maybe)? A lie. This is already proven by history. No lies will change the verdict.

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1 hour ago, myata said:

How do you negotiate with Hitlers?

You don't. They respect power and consequences. 

Ukraine represent neither to them. They have gained significant land, and are still standing as an economy. 

They have even gained more land, and Ukraine is clearly out gunned in regaining on their losses.

What consequences?

Maybe Ukraine should have factored they would be facing Russia, and should have taken a more conciliatory tone with them and one of trying to avoid an invasion before it got out of hand.

This has nothing to do with facing a bully, or you would see the US firmly confronting China on Taiwan vs diplomatic ambiguity.

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6 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Ukraine is paying a heavy price for this "standing up to a bully", which is nothing more than the US goal of defeating Russia via proxy war.

"Respect" a murderous psycho for his bloody crimes, is this how you see it? All the bloody Russia propaganda points. Psycho on a shooting rampage because felt threatened by the shopping mall, just misunderstood.

With that kind of brain, it's no puzzle now. A natural attraction.

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