Zeitgeist Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 12 minutes ago, impartialobserver said: and if they were true fans of the sport.. they would follow the league or really just care about it any way prior to Jokic winning the MVP. I have been an NBA fan since 1986 and it matters not the race of the key players. Definitely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 (edited) 5 hours ago, impartialobserver said: They are simply not the default choice and so are not selected quite as often. I Saying whites are or were the 'default choice', especally for conservatives is not fair either. Racism will not go away, and may never, until we see beyond skin colour or race/ religion. But clearly that is hard for people to do. All people feel a kinship with those of the same race or culture. Even within a race, white Italians prefer to hire other Italians, etc. Same with muslims, or Chinese or what have you. One simple reason is language. My work currently has a group of chinamen in our employ. I think they're all nice people. They do however like to converse with one another in their own language, which some find annoying. It's not ideal because the rest of us would like to know what's going on. But there is little I can do. Overall, I see no harm in it. Today, I wished them 'Gung xe fa choi', and they were beaming in appreciation. It is what it is. 🤷♂️ Edited February 9 by OftenWrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impartialobserver Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 58 minutes ago, OftenWrong said: Saying whites are or were the 'default choice', especally for conservatives is not fair either. Racism will not go away, and may never, until we see beyond skin colour or race/ religion. But clearly that is hard for people to do. All people feel a kinship with those of the same race or culture. Even within a race, white Italians prefer to hire other Italians, etc. Same with muslims, or Chinese or what have you. One simple reason is language. My work currently has a group of chinamen in our employ. I think they're all nice people. They do however like to converse with one another in their own language, which some find annoying. It's not ideal because the rest of us would like to know what's going on. But there is little I can do. Overall, I see no harm in it. Today, I wished them 'Gung xe fa choi', and they were beaming in appreciation. It is what it is. 🤷♂️ Conservatives at their core want life to not change or stay the same. Well, in most cases, the past involves a higher number of whites. Browns or non-whites moving into their area is going to disrupt that. Even when it is inevitable. With better technology and more mobility.. folks are going to move to areas that were once sparsely populated such as Utah, Idaho, Nevada, Montana, or New Mexico. Growing up in Boise, Idaho.. Blacks and Asians were fairly rare. Hispanics were found in the farm country to the west of town. So the whites were the "default" choice because of numbers and for reasons that you give. There was no reason to change.. the consequences for hiring a less qualified but white candidate were nonexistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 No one wants to hire incompetent people or less effective people. Suppressing that critical condition of meritocracy destroys the meritocracy. Would you want a basketball player to rise up through the ranks for any other reason than playing basketball well? Of course not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 1 hour ago, OftenWrong said: chinamen I think I know why they won’t converse with you… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 3 minutes ago, TreeBeard said: I think I know why they won’t converse with you… I knew that little word would trigger someone. Turns out it was you. Who knew, eh? lol. If you read what I said in its entirety, they admire me very much. I am accommodating toward their cultural needs. Meanwhile a lot of 'liberals' at my workplace, people who think they are so understanding didn't even know it was Chinese New Year tonight, let alone how to even say it. But you carry on fella... give self a pat on the shoulder... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 38 minutes ago, impartialobserver said: Conservatives at their core want life to not change or stay the same. Well, in most cases, the past involves a higher number of whites. Browns or non-whites moving into their area is going to disrupt that. Even when it is inevitable. With better technology and more mobility.. folks are going to move to areas that were once sparsely populated such as Utah, Idaho, Nevada, Montana, or New Mexico. Growing up in Boise, Idaho.. Blacks and Asians were fairly rare. Hispanics were found in the farm country to the west of town. So the whites were the "default" choice because of numbers and for reasons that you give. There was no reason to change.. the consequences for hiring a less qualified but white candidate were nonexistent. There are in fact different kinds of people who identify as conservative you know, not just all heavy bible-thumpers. Fiscal conservatives, for example, or those who would conserve nature. I identify with them more than with bible thumpers, but I tolerate them all the same. I am a Canadian, was brought up through our system to learn to be tolerant. Yes, I do tend to be cautious about rushing to change things, but also know that change is needed sometimes. Most people are a spectrum of views. To polarize them is a mistake, and a form of bigotry. Snobbish ness. It is, in fact part of the same 'us or them' mentality that divides us. I take a liberal position on some things, conservative on others. Whatever you are, I don't care I just want you to be fair and rational. We had a former member of this forum move to the US some years ago. He wrote back that he was kinda shocked at how much race comes into the daily dialogue there. I understand what he means. Especially the black thing. More to the point, them Chinamen, or Muslims or what have you, all like to hire their own 'kind'. They all like to talk in their native language. Again I don't mind, just making an observation, this is not simply a 'whites' issue. It's also human nature. It has always been my impression that racism in the US is on a larger level in general compared to Canada, so I don't relate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 (edited) 55 minutes ago, OftenWrong said: I knew that little word would trigger someone. Turns out it was you. Who knew, eh? lol. If you read what I said in its entirety, they admire me very much. I am accommodating toward their cultural needs. Meanwhile a lot of 'liberals' at my workplace, people who think they are so understanding didn't even know it was Chinese New Year tonight, let alone how to even say it. But you carry on fella... give self a pat on the shoulder... You make a very important point actually: Being a language cop doesn’t make someone a good or friendly person. Actions always speak louder than words. You want to know how accepting someone is of people of different backgrounds? Look at how they actually get along. I know some very progressive sounding people who only hang out with white people. They’re big talkers but somewhat fake. What’s also interesting is that good people tend to find each other and they’re often from all different backgrounds Edited February 10 by Zeitgeist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 Just now, Zeitgeist said: You make a very important point actually: Being a language cop doesn’t make someone a good or friendly person. Actions always speak louder than words. You want to know how accepting someone is of people of different backgrounds? Look at how they actually get along. I know some very progressive sounding people who only associate with white people. They’re big talkers but somewhat fake. Yes, very true. Good observation. Reminds me of my coworker from Bangladesh. He was a very nice person. I was sad when his contract ended and they let him go. I would rather have a team of people I get along with well and who care about the work, even if they aren't the most brilliant technically, than the reverse. A team of brilliant but arrogant and difficult personality types. As I say to my boss when we are hiring, I can teach anyone technology, but not personality. Quote What’s also interesting is that good people tend to find each other and they’re often from all different backgrounds When I go out and see people in the street, such as a young man in a turban, I remind myself they are frequently very nice people. All you need to do is say a kind word and the smiles and good feelings come out. There is a common thread among all people around the world, we want to care about one another, we care about our families. We all love our moms. Tonight my Chinese friends are all having a wonderful meal at the church they go to. They might even have a drink of champagne or something else they like, who knows? It doesn't take much for them to get drunk, but hey, as long as they don't get too carried away! Love people. See past race, see past their sexual identity. We all struggle to find our place in this world. <Group Hugs....> 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 3 hours ago, OftenWrong said: I knew that little word would trigger someone. Turns out it was you. Who knew, eh? lol. If you read what I said in its entirety, they admire me very much. I am accommodating toward their cultural needs. Meanwhile a lot of 'liberals' at my workplace, people who think they are so understanding didn't even know it was Chinese New Year tonight, let alone how to even say it. But you carry on fella... give self a pat on the shoulder... Not triggered. I’m not Chinese, so why would I be triggered? You work with any niggers who admire you as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted February 10 Author Report Share Posted February 10 25 minutes ago, TreeBeard said: Not triggered. I’m not Chinese, so why would I be triggered? It's hardly uncommon for those on the left to be 'professionally offended' on behalf of some entirely other group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 (edited) 1 hour ago, TreeBeard said: Not triggered. I’m not Chinese, so why would I be triggered? You work with any niggers who admire you as well? What you fail to understand is that not only is everyone at least a little bigoted and biased, but there are people who sound or are a little bigoted who would do far more for the people who are objects of that mild bigotry than some of the self-righteous self-proclaimed progressives. I think most people instinctively know this. For example, I had great grandparents on one side of the family who said bigoted things by today’s standards who would do more for the minorities they referenced than many progressives today, including fighting wars and defeating fascism. It’s the difference between saying what sounds like the right things and doing the real, practical things that help people. As soon as I hear someone sound off about how righteous their views are, I start to think thou doth protest too much. Trudeau is an obvious example, but we’ve all seen these phoneys in various environments. You think people of colour can’t sniff out the phoniness? I’ve noticed a lot of tentativeness around such virtue signallers. It’s one of the reasons Trump has a lot of support among minorities, because despite all his obvious flaws, they sense that what they see is more or less what they get. I don’t say that to mean I’m a Trump fan, I’m saying that there’s a lot of fake rhetoric. The fact that you equated “Chinaman” with the “N” word and used that false equivalence to make Oftenwrong look bad actually makes you look dishonest. All people have biases. The issue isn’t whether someone sometimes says some off-colour things, it’s whether that slight inappropriateness or even real bias actually results in unfair treatment in the workplace, schools, etc. People shouldn’t be so fearful of saying something that isn’t exactly right, because speaking smoothly isn’t what’s really important. It’s how you treat people. First impressions aren’t always lasting ones. After a while of working with someone you figure out whether they’re conscientious, thoughtful, hardworking, etc, and it’s got nothing to do with race. Edited February 10 by Zeitgeist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 13 hours ago, OftenWrong said: When I go out and see people in the street, such as a young man in a turban, I remind myself they are frequently very nice people. Canada & India joined the Empire on the same day at signing the Treaty of Paris 1763 it was we Britons who incorporated the Punjabi Sikhs Punjabi Sikhs fought & died for the British Crown for near two hundred years and frankly, they are far more British than native born Canadians now an ultra conservative, devoutly religious, warrior caste the equal of any Scots Covenanter Ek Onkar 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 Thank you both for the defence. Rather than looking at themselves and trying to improve themselves, some people need to have a bogeyman that they can blame for our social problems. This doesn't faze me. I don't mind a few jokes sent my way but am not interested in engaging with those who are simply being miserable trolls. Mainly I feel sad for them. Oh well. "Each gives of his own store". 🤷♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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