Army Guy Posted February 8, 2024 Report Posted February 8, 2024 2 hours ago, TreeBeard said: So you don’t think the government should try and fix what took place in the past? Hypothetically, if there is still a 20% unbalance (too many white men) due to past discrimination, should they not try and rectify that? Not by firing those who benefitted from the discrimination but by hiring the ones who were discriminated against for jobs that open up. WTF does that mean, do we rip up the railroad then force white people to build it, treat them like shi*...do we allow African americans to own white slaves, treat them white pricks like things...How about awarding them some sort of compensation....lets go back say 400 years....Is this all about getting even...for past things whites have done...and what about when whites harmed whites like the vikings , english, french...how do we get even for all that crap... The government is the last organization i want to fix anything...most of our problems are made by the government. There is a already programs out there that are meant to do just that... today a lot minorities groups have access to special government programs such as education programs or business grants, these kinds of programs are to give them a slight hand up for those in depress areas, or groups... Hiring based on sex, race, or religion while excluding others is racist period...It is how we got here in the past, lets not learn anything from history lets just repeat it....we use to be smart as a people now i think Canadians are dumb as a post....there is no making it up for past transgressions...thats all about YOUR guilty conscious...It makes NO business sense at all to have a completely diverse work force, based on a chart on the wall, unless they are the best candidates for the job... All this is doing is diluting the work force... 1 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
TreeBeard Posted February 8, 2024 Report Posted February 8, 2024 10 minutes ago, Army Guy said: WTF does that mean It means what I said, not any of the extreme examples you listed. Quote
CdnFox Posted February 8, 2024 Author Report Posted February 8, 2024 5 minutes ago, TreeBeard said: It means what I said, not any of the extreme examples you listed. Ahh - so youre for more limited racism and only redressing SOME of history's wrongs provided it's the ones you approve of. Gotcha Quote
Zeitgeist Posted February 8, 2024 Report Posted February 8, 2024 (edited) 21 minutes ago, TreeBeard said: It means what I said, not any of the extreme examples you listed. It never occurred to you that the main reason more white people are in these jobs is because when they started in school and later began their careers the population was a lot whiter. It doesn’t automatically make people racist or discriminatory. I remember as a child in a small city close to Toronto, we had one black child and a couple of Chinese Canadians in my school. Most people were accepting towards them. I remember Roots was on television at the time and our teachers were quite conscious of racism and they talked about the tragedy of slavery, etc. There were also some racists, but they were also the goofs that most people couldn’t stand. As the population became more diverse people’s fears calmed down and most people embraced the variety. People began working together, helping each other as neighbours, intermarrying. It’s worked well. I actually think we had more harmony about 10 years ago than today. Something strange happened where we started seeing some people identify themselves first by their race or some other rather superficial quality as though it was the most important defining feature of their identity. I think we lost the plot. Clearly racism is bad in all forms and no acts of it or unfair rules should exist. Humans can’t seem to help but find new ways to exclude people. Edited February 8, 2024 by Zeitgeist Quote
TreeBeard Posted February 8, 2024 Report Posted February 8, 2024 25 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: It never occurred to you that the main reason more white people are in these jobs is because…[reasons] I think most people would acknowledge that systemic racism has played a part in it, even your fellow conservative poster a few posts above. Those who don’t are denying reality, in my opinion, like climate change deniers, flat earthers, etc. Quote
Zeitgeist Posted February 8, 2024 Report Posted February 8, 2024 (edited) 3 hours ago, TreeBeard said: Probably. It’s similar to any reconciliation of past wrongs. The current people are the ones to pay the restitution for past wrongs. No that’s called discrimination. The people alive today did nothing to deserve their merit being discredited. What’s more, most of the people who suffered serious discrimination are gone. In Canada we tend to adopt US narratives as though they applied to Canada in equal measure, but we had a much smaller percentage of our population as people of colour and we had a tiny percentage of our population who were slaves, and that was really only in Nova Scotia, mostly prior to the American Revolution. Canada was the promised land at the end of the Underground Railroad. Far more slaves were held by West Coast Indigenous. If you want to start compensating the people alive today for injustices against their forefathers, you will need to look also at the French who lost wars to the English but also to the English who were invaded by the French almost 1000 years ago. What about the Romans who invaded England? They should pay up. Didn’t the Danes invade northern England? What about the Huns who came through Europe? Half of our population is composed of immigrants or their children. What did these people do to deserve to pay for generations old injustices? Or should only the white immigrants pay and lose job opportunities? What do Canadians alive today owe? How do you decide who gets compensation? How do you measure victimhood? How do you discern cause and ascribe blame? It’s the Communist idea of redistribution, taking away property from people and giving it to those who don’t have it strictly on the basis of imposing equality of outcome, no matter what people earned or managed well or preserved. It’s a great way to breed contempt, make talented people flee the jurisdiction, and upset a lot of people who worked hard, demonstrated talent, and were passed over for discriminatory reasons. It’s just a new form of mistreatment. As a Catholic, can I make claims against the Anglicans who stole our churches 450 years ago? I do know this: If I’m a talented researcher today and a university is searching for an expert in my field, and I’m such an expert, but I’m passed over solely because of my race, that’s clear injustice against me. That’s harmful and must not be allowed. Edited February 8, 2024 by Zeitgeist Quote
TreeBeard Posted February 8, 2024 Report Posted February 8, 2024 26 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: The people alive today did nothing to deserve their merit being discredited. Neither did the women and visible minorities who were passed over for white males. 27 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Communist Bogeyman. 28 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: If I’m a talented researcher You’ll have no problem finding employment. Lots of white guys have jobs. 1 Quote
Moonlight Graham Posted February 8, 2024 Report Posted February 8, 2024 8 hours ago, TreeBeard said: You think it was an accident of chance that white males were favoured and there were never any systemic issues in Canada? You haven’t seen any evidence yet? I think the phenomenon of discrimination in Canadian workplaces has been well established, don’t you? Systemic racism against Caucasians, males, and straight/cis people etc is legally codified in the Charter of RIghts. A south asian business only hiring south asians is not. I'm a radical who thinks all discrimination is wrong. 1 Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
TreeBeard Posted February 8, 2024 Report Posted February 8, 2024 17 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said: I'm a radical who thinks all discrimination is wrong. If only there were more people like you in the past. Unfortunately, there weren’t and now the cure is almost as bad as the illness. Quote
Zeitgeist Posted February 8, 2024 Report Posted February 8, 2024 (edited) 6 hours ago, TreeBeard said: Neither did the women and visible minorities who were passed over for white males. Bogeyman. You’ll have no problem finding employment. Lots of white guys have jobs. I don’t think your sell job for discrimination is going to work anymore with most people, including minorities. What racism remains in Canada isn’t getting in the way of education and employment opportunities for minorities and women. In fact, more women are in universities and buying homes than men. It’s obvious why women wouldn’t be as dominant at the top of organizations, and it relates to time out of the workforce spent on maternity leaves or simply not participating in the workforce as much as men for longer periods. It’s highly arguable today that women are faring better than men. Many young men are lost and feel disenfranchised in our “feminist” modern society. Are people happier today? The push to raise up minorities and undo past injustices has reached a fever pitch wherein some minorities are being told they are victims, some of whom are very successful, and others are being told that they are privileged strictly on the basis of race. The US Supreme Court saw the blatant discrimination, systematic discrimination, happening in college admissions against white and Asian students and ended race based admissions policies. Nevertheless many universities and workplaces are maintaining discriminatory messaging in various equity training and hiring/admissions practices. In Canada they have continued uninterrupted, to the extent that there’s no attempt to hide the favouritism and discrimination. So no, most Canadians aren’t buying into these narratives anymore. It’s why Trudeau is on the ropes, because he uncritically spews divisive rhetoric and race baits constantly. I won’t even begin to discuss the mess made on the Indigenous file, which has been a dumpster fire of heated and false rhetoric that has painted Canada as a genocidal nightmare. Well enough people have bought that rhetoric unfortunately and the country has lost international stature and confidence. Only stupid people shoot themselves in the feet. The damage to morale and our meritocracy through surrendering to radical ideologies and special interests will be the legacy of this federal government and era in our history. The country has declined and most Canadians feel it. Edited February 8, 2024 by Zeitgeist Quote
Zeitgeist Posted February 8, 2024 Report Posted February 8, 2024 (edited) 5 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said: Systemic racism against Caucasians, males, and straight/cis people etc is legally codified in the Charter of RIghts. A south asian business only hiring south asians is not. I'm a radical who thinks all discrimination is wrong. Legally codified discrimination is exactly what systemic racism is. The Charter must therefore be revised. Personally I don’t see it happening. Canada has lost the plot, largely because the government has gotten away with intimidating and propagandizing the population through the media it funds and regulates in its image. People who question the narratives are cancelled. Most people simply don’t feel they can risk pushing back. In the end the government got away with the Emergencies Act without consequence. The only recourse left is the ballot box, so expect a lot of negative messaging about the Conservatives and an attempt to paint them as “alt right”, a play that’s worked in the past. Hope springs eternal that people see through the game this time. Edited February 8, 2024 by Zeitgeist Quote
Army Guy Posted February 8, 2024 Report Posted February 8, 2024 12 hours ago, TreeBeard said: I think most people would acknowledge that systemic racism has played a part in it, even your fellow conservative poster a few posts above. Those who don’t are denying reality, in my opinion, like climate change deniers, flat earthers, etc. The entire globe at one time or another has experienced systemic racism, every race, religion, creed, group has at one point of time been racist...So who do you untie all of that, and make amends...your solution seems to point to more racism , and the funny part is you think thats alright, becasue white people deserve that...and maybe we do, but all it is going to do is widen the racial gap we have already...more division seems to be the leftist way...when we should be talking about programs that unit all of us as one peoplekind.... In the military one thing that united all the men regardless of race, color or creed, was adversity...nobody cared if you were green with warts on your D....we were all facing the same thing at the same time and counted on each other to survive, todays adversity is all this leftist crap that is dividing us... this example of having a diverse workforce, with no regards to maintaining performance, or quality is an example of that...This is being directed at us from Government and our education systems, and other Leftist lobby groups. Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
TreeBeard Posted February 8, 2024 Report Posted February 8, 2024 4 minutes ago, Army Guy said: The entire globe Don’t care about the globe. Canada is my concern. We can set the example for others 6 minutes ago, Army Guy said: but all it is going to do is widen the racial gap we have already...more division seems to be the leftist way... Your conservative compatriots told me in previous posts that maybe Canada used to be racist, but it’s not (or maybe much less) racist now So, I guess if that’s the case, the “leftist way” seems to be working. 12 minutes ago, Army Guy said: In the military… There’s no racists in the military? Quote
Army Guy Posted February 8, 2024 Report Posted February 8, 2024 12 hours ago, TreeBeard said: Neither did the women and visible minorities who were passed over for white males. Bogeyman. You’ll have no problem finding employment. Lots of white guys have jobs. How far back do we have to go before your conscious is satisfied, 10, 50, 100 years where does this end...sounds like on the shores of NFLD when the first vikings landed on shore... Your opening up a can of worms here, there are plenty of jobs that white men have that are of no or little interest to women, like construction, iron workers, garbagemen, Infantry soldiers, do we now force them to take those jobs until the chart on the wall says it is equal...It seems like you have taken a very narrow section of jobs and come up with these people have been oppressed...and threw out the vast majority of jobs... The same could be said for visible minorities, like native guides for hunting up north do we force white people into this jobs...No we don't what we do though is restrict white males because of something that was done in the past... Lots of white guys have jobs, because there is lots of white guys... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
TreeBeard Posted February 8, 2024 Report Posted February 8, 2024 3 minutes ago, Army Guy said: How far back do we have to go before your conscious is satisfied, 10, 50, 100 years where does this end...sounds like on the shores of NFLD when the first vikings landed on shore... Your opening up a can of worms here, there are plenty of jobs that white men have that are of no or little interest to women, like construction, iron workers, garbagemen, Infantry soldiers, do we now force them to take those jobs until the chart on the wall says it is equal...It seems like you have taken a very narrow section of jobs and come up with these people have been oppressed...and threw out the vast majority of jobs... The same could be said for visible minorities, like native guides for hunting up north do we force white people into this jobs...No we don't what we do though is restrict white males because of something that was done in the past... Lots of white guys have jobs, because there is lots of white guys... You’re using a bunch of examples that simply aren’t happening. Let’s just deal with reality, ok? Quote
Army Guy Posted February 8, 2024 Report Posted February 8, 2024 3 minutes ago, TreeBeard said: Don’t care about the globe. Canada is my concern. We can set the example for others Your conservative compatriots told me in previous posts that maybe Canada used to be racist, but it’s not (or maybe much less) racist now So, I guess if that’s the case, the “leftist way” seems to be working. There’s no racists in the military? We set the example for what...how to cheap out on almost everything ....give us some examples of what we set the examples of... Current laws make being a racist that much more difficult, but lets not kid ourselves there are plenty of racist in Canada, and they come in all colors and creeds....I think what they are trying to say is they don't think our country has systemic racist problem. Oh yes, like the rest of the nation you'll find racist every where including in the military...but i will tell you this when the bullets start flying you'll even find the racist put that aside...Soldiers build a bond on that comradeship, a bond thats is or as good as being family...regardless of skin color or religion...not saying that is going to happen right across the country, but adverse conditions do make people pull together, take a look at ice storms, or massive snow storms or forest fires,give them a problem to solve together and it will draw people together... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted February 8, 2024 Report Posted February 8, 2024 5 minutes ago, TreeBeard said: You’re using a bunch of examples that simply aren’t happening. Let’s just deal with reality, ok? Sure it is easy to just wipe the board clean, but you did not address the other side of the problem...do we force people into other jobs to make your chart on the wall even...right now your talking about high profile jobs or nice office jobs because it fits your narrative, but what about all the other jobs ?...or do they not count..This is reality....because it is happening right now... And when is all of this diversity hiring going to stop, just when all the nice to have jobs are filled. Or like i have suggested when ALL the jobs have their charts on the walls equaled. Army has been trying to do this for over a decade now, trying to find more female infantry to fill out the ranks, which was quoted as 25 %, today you might find 5 % of young women in the Infantry and as soon as they meet up with a partner, and want to start a family then they get out...so they lose them faster than they can recruit them...and yet nobody has come out and said 25 % might be to high...Diversity hiring is a huge mistake and socail experiment gone wrong... White males are taking these jobs because they have a better chance of work, Take a look at government job listings, they say right in the add what they are looking for...what is absence is white male...only when they run out of candidates will they accept white male... Tell me that is not racist, tell me that is right...and why is it acceptable to do this...when we should be looking for the best qualified person...what is the whole point behind furthering education, getting different qualifications when the prime job quality they are looking for is skin color,gender,sex,religion, creed....and qualifications really don't play a major role... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
TreeBeard Posted February 8, 2024 Report Posted February 8, 2024 16 minutes ago, Army Guy said: do we force people into other jobs to make your chart on the wall even That’s not the goal. Try not to get caught up in “slippery slope” arguments that don’t happen. Quote
Army Guy Posted February 8, 2024 Report Posted February 8, 2024 2 hours ago, TreeBeard said: That’s not the goal. Try not to get caught up in “slippery slope” arguments that don’t happen. We know why they don't happen because those special interest groups don't want those jobs...they are quit happy with them being mostly white....so why would they complain... Of course not, why would we want all jobs to be diverse, that would just be crazy, and lead readers in another direction, that would be divisive....instead your only interested in the soft or most wanted jobs...like most leftist you only want to do half the job...I'm really hoping that PP makes all this diversity go away, and we get back to making sense, hiring people best qualified for the job...not because of the skin color, religion or creed... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
TreeBeard Posted February 8, 2024 Report Posted February 8, 2024 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Army Guy said: I'm really hoping that PP makes all this diversity go away “Diversity sucks! Bring back racism” Is that really a winning slogan? Edited February 8, 2024 by TreeBeard Quote
Dougie93 Posted February 8, 2024 Report Posted February 8, 2024 On 2/6/2024 at 7:48 PM, Zeitgeist said: Canada has become an unfair place to live and work. the question then becomes : how Hanoverian are you ? because it is only the Peace of the Canada's which bind we Hanoverians to you Jacobites if the Peace of Canada's is no more, then it comes down to whose Crown do you serve ? King George or King Cherrie ? this is a Jacobite anthem after all, Hielan Laddie . . . Wi’ a hundred pipers an’ a', an’ a’, Wi' a hundred pipers an’ a’, an’ a', We'll up an' gie them a blaw, Wi’ a hundred pipers an' a’, an’ a', Oh! It’s owre the Border awa', awa' It’s owre the Border awa', awa’ We'll on and we’ll march to Carlisle ha' Wi' its yetts, its castell, an' a’, an' a’ Wi' a hundredpipers an' a' an' a' Wi' a hundredpipers an' a' an' a' We'll up an'gie them a blaw, a blaw Wi' a hundredpipers an' a' an' a' Oh! our sodger lads looked braw, looked braw, Wi’ their tartans, kilts an’ a', an’ a', Wi’ their bonnets, an’ feathers, an’ glittering gear An' pilbrochs sounding sweet and clear Will they a’ return to their ain dear glen? Will they a' return, our heiland men? Second-sighted Sandy looked fu' wae And mothers grat when they marched away The esk was swollen, sae red and sae deep But shouther to shouther the brave lads keep Twa thousand swam owre to fell English ground An’ danced themselves dry to the pibroch’s sound Dumbfounder’d the English saw---they saw--- Dumbfounder'd they heard the blaw, the blaw Dumbfounder’d, they ran awa', awa' From the hundred pipers an a', an' a' 1 Quote
Zeitgeist Posted February 8, 2024 Report Posted February 8, 2024 So true that the union of the Canada’s was a great achievement. Quote
Dougie93 Posted February 8, 2024 Report Posted February 8, 2024 6 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: So true that the union of the Canada’s was a great achievement. I was a born a Hanoverian we Ulster Scots are Lowland Scots : the Sassanach while ye Papists are with the Hielan Scots : the Albanach Great Britain is a team of rivals, sworn enemies in fact the vast majority of the Canadian population believes that Canada is some sort of unified kumbaya republic but that is not and never was the case only the Peace of the Canada's allows for Confederation and only the monarchy could bind such contradictions together hence why Canada is not, never was, and never could be a republic God save the King is Confederation's only hope for survival Cuidich 'n Righ 1 Quote
Army Guy Posted February 8, 2024 Report Posted February 8, 2024 58 minutes ago, TreeBeard said: “Diversity sucks! Bring back racism” Is that really a winning slogan? Sounds much better than diversity rocks only with selective racism ...here is a plan lets not have any more racism regardless of what your color is...I or you can not control what our ancestors did in the past, nor should we be blame for it....but we can control what we do now and in the future.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Dougie93 Posted February 8, 2024 Report Posted February 8, 2024 28 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: So true that the union of the Canada’s was a great achievement. all that being said there was one sect of Lowland Scots whom did revolt against the Hanoverian Crown in the end and we call those Scots-Irish Protestants : The Americans in the beauty of the lilies, Christ was born across the sea . . . Quote
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