As Kids, They Thought They Were Trans. They No Longer Do. (or why it's ok for parents to question)

[Black Dog]

41 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Transgender tendencies are a very very strong indicator of it.  If your kid can't put weight on a leg, there's swelling and discoloration, and a lot of pain - we're not NECESSARILY talking about a broken leg but only the dumbest of the dumb would suggest that you shouldn't move forward and find out and that means talking to the parents and taking the next step.

Why would you even need to be told that.

It's funny you guys constantly invoke all these terrible and inaccurate analogies becaus eyou're incapable of addrssing the arguments on their own terms.

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Already provided you info on that but hey -

You're lying again.

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i notice you didn't give any sources to prove your contention that it's safer to lie to the parents, so how about you pony that up.

No one said anything about lying to parents, liar.

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Are you basing that on your years of medical expertise treating children with gender dysphoria?

I'm basing it on the DSM-5-TR definition of gender dysphoria.

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If not why not leave that up to a doctor, and that means letting the parents know so they can take the approprate next steps.

Because if the kid wants their parents to know they would tell them and not ask someone else to keep their confidence. duh.

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Well you just described how most pedophiles behave.  Teachers are not there to be the kid's 'best friend' or teach them to keep secrets.  

Maybe that's how you roll but most smart people can tell the difference between an adult saying "don't tell anyone this happened" and a kid asking someone to not say anything to their parents about something they might not accept.

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Hell we posted that story here of that teacher who told their whole class to be sure to remember to lie over summer break if they saw the kids' parents.

Yeah was that at the same school where the kids were identifying as cats and using litterboxes?

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It is not a matter of 'trusted confidence' to keep medical information from parents.

This isn't "Tommy isn't taking his insulin" or "Sally told me she has an eating disorder" and the fact you think of this issue in terms of harmful pathologies says a lot.

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The fact you attempt to dismiss fact and reason that way shows you know you're in the wrong.  You're like a chihuahua barking on the other side of a fence as the big dogs walk by,

You and facts and reason aren't acquainted in the slightest. NGMI.

Edited February 13, 2024 by Black Dog

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Black Dog said:

When it comes to kid's safety, I'd prefer they err on the side of caution if the student has expressed concerns.

When it comes down to safety, if their household is abusive, you withholding their gender change won't change what it is that they are facing. Has nothing to do with safety.

2 hours ago, Black Dog said:

But to take your analogy, you're saying kids shouldn't be allowed to experiment with being bi or goth.

Issue is this experiment with gender, is sterilizing youth and permanently maiming others. 

No issue with it, if an adult is making such decisions aware of the consequences, or even a teen simply using pronouns.

Becomes an issue when this type of thinking is pushed onto kids. Worse, without the parents knowledge. 

2 hours ago, Black Dog said:

If the extent of the school's involvement was respecting the kid's choice of name and pronouns

Then there are no issues. 

2 hours ago, Black Dog said:

What constitutes "reasonable" to you?

If you have to ask, it probably isn't. 

With that said, I appreciate the cite you provided, and while it does show a likelier level of abuse towards gender nonconforming teens, it leaves me with more questions than answers.

Am gender nonconforming. I knew I was different since very young.

I was whooped as a child, and am asexual, and gender nonconforming. What does this prove?

That being in abusive households makes one likely to develop mental health issues? (If so, was research really needed)

Beaten because they are trans? Conclusively told by those stats?  Or behavioral issues due to their mental health? 

I was whooped for misbehaving. But while the stats are nice to see, they are devoid of full context.

IE did these mental health issues start at childhood? 

Am a compulsive thinker.

When someone tells me "it just is, because", am already wanting to research a different way of doing things as I take those words as a challenge. 

There is zero doubt trans kids have it harder. They have to exist in a society that has yet to accept them, fully.

But where I draw the line, is at the suppression (or blurring) of parental rights.

I want to make that clear. I have zero issue with gender nonconforming people, considering am part of that group. In fact, I love people who defy gender norms. More people should.

Not so sold on kids being sold gender and woke ideology and then pointing the fingers at society and parents, for how f***ed up these kids become as teens.

Long story short. You don't fix social issues by dividing battle lines. You must be open to all sides of the issue. Currently only one has a megaphone.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

Woke ideology?

Yes. What is being taught at many colleges and schools. across north America along with education. 

Infiltrated itself into politics, making times today, about as divisive as I have seen them in my lifetime.

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

There's just no way anyone can be expected to think clearly when this is rattling around their noggins.

Which is why you haven't refuted it by any points that pick it apart. Should be effortless, if my point was as crazy as you said it was, no?

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

Stay in your lane?

Or leave parenting to parents. The prior was just shorter.

I don't see what is unreasonable about this.

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

No, squeezing people who insist on maintaining this nonsense

What nonsense. Be specific. What is nonsensical about what I said.

Running around name calling and laugh emojis, simply state you have nothing to bring to the debate, so you must dismiss it.

[eyeball]

9 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

What nonsense. Be specific. What is nonsensical about what I said.

That there's an organized ideology that goes by the name of woke and that's infiltrated everything. 

It's not just nonsensical it's loony. It would only be accurate to say its paranoid if it wasn't so funny.

[Legato]

3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

That there's an organized ideology that goes by the name of woke and that's infiltrated everything. 

It's not just nonsensical it's loony. It would only be accurate to say its paranoid if it wasn't so funny.

Just ask Anheuser-Busch they will explain, although I doubt they could penetrate your myopic view.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Black Dog said:

It's funny you guys constantly invoke all these terrible and inaccurate analogies becaus eyou're incapable of addrssing the arguments on their own terms.

You're lying again.

No one said anything about lying to parents, liar.

I'm basing it on the DSM-5-TR definition of gender dysphoria.

Because if the kid wants their parents to know they would tell them and not ask someone else to keep their confidence. duh.

Maybe that's how you roll but most smart people can tell the difference between an adult saying "don't tell anyone this happened" and a kid asking someone to not say anything to their parents about something they might not accept.

Yeah was that at the same school where the kids were identifying as cats and using litterboxes?

This isn't "Tommy isn't taking his insulin" or "Sally told me she has an eating disorder" and the fact you think of this issue in terms of harmful pathologies says a lot.

You and facts and reason aren't acquainted in the slightest. NGMI.

It's funny you say stupid things like 'its funny that' when you can't actually address the point. basically the old leftie tactic of 'accuse them of whatyou're doing'.   So you realized I was right and chose to attack the person instead of the argument. Typical.

And you are the only one who lies here but hey - prove me wrong and post your data.  Ohhhhh wait - that's right you can't. I DID post data and you tried and failed to argue against it but you know there's no data to prove YOUR point because you're making it up.

And yes - lying by omission is still a lie.  So once again you're full of shit.

And no- you're not in the slightest.  The definition is just that - a definition - and has nothing to do with diagnosis. And the fact you couldn't understand the difference proves you're utterly unqualified to even speak about it.

And i notice you got real silent about the fact teachers have been instructing their entire classes to lie if they run into the kids' parents. I take it you've realized how wrong this all is,

 

The kid probably doesn't want the parents to know about their bad grades, or that they broke the lamp in the living room - that doesn't change the fact the parents need to know.

And teaching kids to lie is teaching kids to lie.  And any intelligent person knows that.  It is WRONG TO TEACH KIDS TO LIE TO THEIR PARENTS EVEN BY OMISSION.  Like i said, you and hte pedophiles have a lot in common it would seem.

This is "your kid is exhibiting signs of a potentally very serious medical condition'.  You can't lie your way out of that.

 

Long story short - the left already slammed the door on any discussions.  And your dishonesty here shows the pointlessness of trying to reopen those discussions. Not ONCE did i see you even hint that maybe it's understandable the parents would want to know about a serious situation involving their children. All you say is "well if the parents know they might hurt them'. 

So now it's being done another way and there won't be discussion - and you know what? The polling is indicating that parents and the majority of Canadians have gotten to the point with the left that they're fine with that.

Maybe next time try starting off talking instead of starting off with hatred and bigotry and pretending that parents shouldn't have any rights with regards to their children.

[Black Dog]

49 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

When it comes down to safety, if their household is abusive, you withholding their gender change won't change what it is that they are facing. Has nothing to do with safety.

So you don't think there's any kids out there whose parents might abuse them if they find out they're trans but not otherwise?

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Issue is this experiment with gender, is sterilizing youth and permanently maiming others. 

This problem is vastly overstated and is not what we're talking about here, which is social transitioning at school.

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No issue with it, if an adult is making such decisions aware of the consequences, or even a teen simply using pronouns.

Becomes an issue when this type of thinking is pushed onto kids. Worse, without the parents knowledge. 

 

But that's all we've talking about! No one is saying teachers should buy kids hormones or anything like that. Also lot of right wing types think any instruction about sex of gender of any kind is brainwashing so I don't put a lot of stock in these "they're pushing gender" narratives.

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With that said, I appreciate the cite you provided, and while it does show a likelier level of abuse towards gender nonconforming teens, it leaves me with more questions than answers.

Am gender nonconforming. I knew I was different since very young.

I was whooped as a child, and am asexual, and gender nonconforming. What does this prove?

That being in abusive households makes one likely to develop mental health issues? (If so, was research really needed)

Beaten because they are trans? Conclusively told by those stats?  Or behavioral issues due to their mental health? 

I was whooped for misbehaving. But while the stats are nice to see, they are devoid of full context.

IE did these mental health issues start at childhood? 

Am a compulsive thinker.

When someone tells me "it just is, because", am already wanting to research a different way of doing things as I take those words as a challenge. 

There is zero doubt trans kids have it harder. They have to exist in a society that has yet to accept them, fully.

But where I draw the line, is at the suppression (or blurring) of parental rights.

 

I agree there needs to be more and better research on the relationship between gender questioning, other mental health issues and domestic abuse. But (see next point).

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I want to make that clear. I have zero issue with gender nonconforming people, considering am part of that group. In fact, I love people who defy gender norms. More people should.

Not so sold on kids being sold gender and woke ideology and then pointing the fingers at society and parents, for how f***ed up these kids become as teens.

 

What it boils down to for me is I don't think teachers should out kids to parents against their wishes whether the kid is gay, trans, ace, enby or whetever. 

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Long story short. You don't fix social issues by dividing battle lines. You must be open to all sides of the issue. Currently only one has a megaphone.

IDK, I only see one side using the coercive power of the state to enforce gender norms. 

[Black Dog]

9 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

It's funny you say stupid things like 'its funny that' when you can't actually address the point. basically the old leftie tactic of 'accuse them of whatyou're doing'.   So you realized I was right and chose to attack the person instead of the argument. Typical.

And you are the only one who lies here but hey - prove me wrong and post your data.  Ohhhhh wait - that's right you can't. I DID post data and you tried and failed to argue against it but you know there's no data to prove YOUR point because you're making it up.

And yes - lying by omission is still a lie.  So once again you're full of shit.

I was curious so I just went back over the last 6 pages of this thread and can confirm you didn't post any data at all. No cites, no links, nothing.The only links you've provided this whole time were the links to the Edmonton CARRT website. That's it. So yeah: that's the crack pipe talking to you.

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And no- you're not in the slightest.  The definition is just that - a definition - and has nothing to do with diagnosis. And the fact you couldn't understand the difference proves you're utterly unqualified to even speak about it.

 

LOL, get rekt.

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And i notice you got real silent about the fact teachers have been instructing their entire classes to lie if they run into the kids' parents. I take it you've realized how wrong this all is,

Nah, I don't believe you. Because you lie.

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The kid probably doesn't want the parents to know about their bad grades, or that they broke the lamp in the living room - that doesn't change the fact the parents need to know.

And teaching kids to lie is teaching kids to lie.  And any intelligent person knows that.  It is WRONG TO TEACH KIDS TO LIE TO THEIR PARENTS EVEN BY OMISSION.  Like i said, you and hte pedophiles have a lot in common it would seem.

This is "your kid is exhibiting signs of a potentally very serious medical condition'.  You can't lie your way out of that.

 

Oh so now you expect teachers to make clinical diagnoses as part of their jobs?

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Long story short - the left already slammed the door on any discussions.  And your dishonesty here shows the pointlessness of trying to reopen those discussions.

I don't think a pathological liar like you should be talking about dishonesty.

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Not ONCE did i see you even hint that maybe it's understandable the parents would want to know about a serious situation involving their children. All you say is "well if the parents know they might hurt them'. 

This just once again proves how tenuous your grasp on the arguments are and why you should stfu. My assumption is most parents whose kids are going through some sort of gender questioning will probably know what's up, especially if those kids have acute gender dysphoria. The only cases I'm talking about is when a kid explicitly asks their parents not be informed because of a fear of abuse, which any responsible adult should take seriously. But you want teachers to out students whether they consent to it or not. Shameful.

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So now it's being done another way and there won't be discussion - and you know what? The polling is indicating that parents and the majority of Canadians have gotten to the point with the left that they're fine with that.

Maybe next time try starting off talking instead of starting off with hatred and bigotry and pretending that parents shouldn't have any rights with regards to their children.

 

The victim/persecution complex you have is really something given that you're an aggressive a$$hole.

Edited February 13, 2024 by Black Dog

[Michael Hardner]

4 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Common sense needs to be applied.

...

You're asking teachers to make medical decisions on the lives of children based on potential ideological thinking, vs medical expertise. Same thing, in my opinion. 

 

You call for common sense, then you make a semantic twist like that.  It's inconsistent at best.

[Michael Hardner]

35 minutes ago, eyeball said:

That there's an organized ideology that goes by the name of woke and that's infiltrated everything. 

We already went down this path a few weeks ago.

I asked for a definition of woke and or transgender ideology.  I believe that we got a lot of rhetoric but didn't get a workable definition.

  

[CdnFox]

12 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

I was curious so I went back over the last 6 pages of this thread and can confirm you didn't post any data.

 

You literally argued with me about data i posted for about 10 posts.

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The only links you've provided this whole time were the links to the Edmonton CARRT website. That's it. Zero other stats or info so yeah: that's the crack pipe talking.

And bc's and the associated websites and links therein.  Including their stats.  Of which there's a lot.

Sorry little boy - you're either stupid or lying and either way you're not really impressing anyone.

But hey - that's sure more than you've done - where's that quote you promised me but coudln't deliver? Oh right - you lied about that.

So how about some stats showing that there ARE lots of kids being kicked out of home while still underage for being trans?

Oh right. That really doesn't happen.  And if it did there are resources for such kids where they can get good and supportive care.

Maybe they can go live with the teacher given the teachers think they're the best at raising kids instead of the parents.

 

 

[Black Dog]

48 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

You literally argued with me about data i posted for about 10 posts.

Again: the only "data" you posted was two links from the EPS CARRT program website. 

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And bc's and the associated websites and links therein.  Including their stats.  Of which there's a lot.

Sorry little boy - you're either stupid or lying and either way you're not really impressing anyone.

Nope.

This is the only post you've included links in the last like 6 pages:

On 2/10/2024 at 12:02 PM, CdnFox said:

Oooo - time for everyone's favorite game show - "Is Black Dog correct? or is he a steaming pile of crap?"

So blackdog says "NO EVIDENCE THAT POLICE OR SOCIAL WORKERS WILL RESPOND BEFORE THERE'S VIOLENCE".  I said that they'll respond to children at risk, not just voilence - Black dog says no, that i have NO evidence for that.

Answer is:  ding ding ding!  - the police and social workers have entire teams dedicated to just that and have for decades!!!

https://www.edmontonpolice.ca/News/SuccessStories/CARRT20Ann

OHHHH NOOOO - Looks like black dog scored "is a pile of crap" again!!!!

LOL -  my god you're stupid    Everyone knows about this and there's similar stuff in every province.  Here's edmontons

https://www.edmontonpolice.ca/CommunityPolicing/FamilyProtection/ChildProtection/CARRT

Sure they did. That's the whole point. You've said something fairly similar yourself.

 And i see from the rest you're out of ideas so are just lying about me saying things so you'll have something you could actually argue.  ROFL - what a piece of crap you are.

I've scanned the whole thread from page one in case there was something you posted before I entered the thread and in dozens of posts, you've posted exactly three links: one in the OP to NYT editorial and two to the EPS website above.

At this point, I'm not sure if you believe your own lies or if you're too dumb to keep track of what you've posted, but it's pretty easy to go back and see what you did and did not post.  So I'll just add that to the ever-growing pile of horseshit you've claimed and not backed up.

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But hey - that's sure more than you've done - where's that quote you promised me but coudln't deliver? Oh right - you lied about that.

I never promised you any quotes.

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So how about some stats showing that there ARE lots of kids being kicked out of home while still underage for being trans?

Oh right. That really doesn't happen.  And if it did there are resources for such kids where they can get good and supportive care.

Maybe they can go live with the teacher given the teachers think they're the best at raising kids instead of the parents.

You made the claim that the number was "next to zero", you back it up dipshit.

Edited February 13, 2024 by Black Dog

[Guest]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

That there's an organized ideology that goes by the name of woke and that's infiltrated everything. 

Woke ideology today, has woke lawmakers feeling a born male, appendages and all, should be housed with born women in prison.

Should shower with children at swimming pools, because they feel like a woman. Their comfort takes precedence over the horror of others.

After a history of being two genders, as of 2013, all of a sudden, there are infinite genders. Questioning this, brings forward a violent rebuke, but little in the name of concrete evidence. 

That America is racist, even though there are no racist policies. The patriarchy is why women don't make as much as men, even though this is statistically refuted.

This is woke garbage.

It is a way of thinking where victimhood supercedes merit. Institutions like the police, are seen as a threat, stealing from a store as a minority is seen as taking what society has somehow stolen from you.

Past slights, must be seen via current standards. 

Holding people back, vs unleashing their potential.

It discards logic for emotion. 

Histrionic fits, vs dialogue.

And has created divisions and extremism in response. 

That very dumpster fire that is current US politics. Blaming Republicans is the lazy way of looking at this.

Again, you scoff and dismiss but bring nothing to the debate.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Black Dog said:

Again: the only "data" you posted was two links from the EPS CARRT program website. 

Nope.

This is the only post you've included links in the last like 6 pages:

I've scanned the whole thread from page one in case there was something you posted before I entered the thread and in dozens of posts, you've posted exactly three links: one in the OP to NYT editorial and two to the EPS website above.

At this point, I'm not sure if you believe your own lies or if you're too dumb to keep track of what you've posted, but it's pretty easy to go back and see what you did and did not post.  So I'll just add that to the ever-growing pile of horseshit you've claimed and not backed up.

I never promised you any quotes.

You made the claim that the number was "next to zero", you back it up dipshit.

Again you're full of shit. Now it's TWO sources instead of your claim of one last time and again you pretend that there's no links or data inside those sources. 

So your argument is " YOU DIDN"T PROVIDE ANY DATA!!! JUST THAT ONE LINK!!! AND ALL THE ASSOCIATED LINKS AND DATA!!!! PLUS THAT  OTHER LINK!!! PLUS THE DATA WITH THAT AS WELL!!!!!  ONLY THOSE DOZENS OF PAGES OF INFORMATION!!

You're a complete joke. 

Where's the quote you promised me? Ohhh -still can't find it. How odd seeing as you just reviewed the thread. Were you lying about me saying it then? Yeah - thought so.

And still no cite for the data you provided. amazing.

And why would you put up this cheezy act?  Simple - you know you're wrong and you're trying to deflect.

 

Why it's almost as tho you don't give a shit about kids or trans at all. Imagine.

[Black Dog]

15 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Again you're full of shit. Now it's TWO sources instead of your claim of one last time and again you pretend that there's no links or data inside those sources. 

So your argument is " YOU DIDN"T PROVIDE ANY DATA!!! JUST THAT ONE LINK!!! AND ALL THE ASSOCIATED LINKS AND DATA!!!! PLUS THAT  OTHER LINK!!! PLUS THE DATA WITH THAT AS WELL!!!!!  ONLY THOSE DOZENS OF PAGES OF INFORMATION!!

You're a complete joke. 

It was one source in the last 6 pages, a grand total of two sources overall including the OP. And no, there's no stats or links in those links to the CARRT program (one of which was a link to a story about the program from 2015). No links to "bc's and the associated websites and links therein." Nothing.

You're busted, you're cooked, give up.

Edited February 13, 2024 by Black Dog

[CdnFox]

Just now, Black Dog said:

It was one source in the last 6 pages, a grand total of two sources overall including the OP. And no, there's no stats or links in those links to the CARRT program. No links to "And bc's and the associated websites and links therein." Nothing.

You're busted, you're cooked, give up.

So now we're including the OP which actually makes it THREE sources not two, the two police sources previously mentioned and the op, and links included in those to dozens of other pages.

You're like the monty python spanish inquisition skit.

Our chief weapon is that one link, that one link and the other one ... our TWO cheif weapons are the two links! Plus the OP  Our THREE .... look i'll come in again....  

So - we can agree cites and links are provided

And none from you.

So there you go.

[Black Dog]

2 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

So now we're including the OP which actually makes it THREE sources not two, the two police sources previously mentioned and the op,

Two of those links were to the same website you dummy, you're counting the same website twice. unreal.

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and links included in those to dozens of other pages.

So now you're counting any link on another web page, relevant or not, as a cite? lol you're so cooked.

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So - we can agree cites and links are provided

Cites and links that don't actually support any of the myriad insane claims you made.

Just give up man, this is getting pathetic.

Edited February 13, 2024 by Black Dog

[CdnFox]

25 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

Two of those links were to the same website you dummy, you're counting the same website twice. unreal.

So now you're counting any link on another web page, relevant or not, as a cite? lol you're so cooked.

Cites and links that don't actually support any of the myriad insane claims you made.

Just give up man, this is getting pathetic.

No, they go to different websites.  If you learn how to use the internet you'll learn how to "click" on things and find out

They're different links.  But - in fairness i DID actually mean for the first one to be the BC version, which is kind of obvious from my post and the second one to be from edmonton, must have just copied the wrong link. 

But yeah - different websites, not the same website.

And yes they in fact do support the claims precisely.  But that's very leftist of you to pretend otherwise in the face of clear evidence.

As they prove, if a child is thought to be in crisis or danger the police and councillors WILL respond even if there's been no violence. Something you claimed was not true.

 

And it's hilarious but predictable that you're begging me to stop proving you wrong

How about you prove ME wrong - where's that data to support your claims?

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Again, you scoff and dismiss but bring nothing to the debate.

I'm bringing ridicule to the debate to counter the hooey about Nazis, the MSM and Marxist left-lib woke this, that and the next thing that's dumped into the mix.

[CdnFox]

12 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I'm bringing ridicule to the debate to counter the hooey about Nazis, the MSM and Marxist left-lib woke this, that and the next thing that's dumped into the mix.

A small child peeing on himself is not 'ridicule'. 

[eyeball]

3 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

A small child peeing on himself is not 'ridicule'. 

Certainly not compared to 'adults' smearing their hooey all over everything. 

[CdnFox]

8 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Certainly not compared to 'adults' smearing their hooey all over everything. 

I agree you've improved from that but still....     

(oh come on, you totally walked into that one )

[eyeball]

2 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

I agree you've improved from that but still....     

(oh come on, you totally walked into that one )

Completely around it you meant to say.

In any case, when you pepper your opinions with the aforementioned ridiculous albeit serious references to things like Nazis the MSM and such, everyone knows you're almost entirely informed by little more than 'Yer dumb-ass feels'.

[CdnFox]

3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Completely around it you meant to say.

In any case, when you pepper your opinions with the aforementioned ridiculous albeit serious references to things like Nazis the MSM and such, everyone knows you're almost entirely informed by little more than 'Yer dumb-ass feels'.

Or like if you make rediculous suggestions like mp's should wear body cams all the time  

Or refuse to address the fact we don't do anything with the transparancy we already have

Sure - sometimes we all get a little over the top in our hyperbole, it's the internet and that's what it's for. But - i don't think it's worth dismissing people or their entire arguments over a little hyperbole.

[eyeball]

4 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Or like if you make rediculous suggestions like mp's should wear body cams all the time.

Only if they choose to. I'd leave it up to those who don't to explain why they think it's better to keep the public out of the public's business.

6 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Or refuse to address the fact we don't do anything with the transparancy we already have

What transparency would that be exactly?

8 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Sure - sometimes we all get a little over the top in our hyperbole, it's the internet and that's what it's for. But - i don't think it's worth dismissing people or their entire arguments over a little hyperbole.

Its a lot more than just hyperbole when you actually believe your hooey.