Study Finds ‘COVID-19 Vaccination is Strongly Associated w/ a Serious Adverse Safety Signal of Myocarditis, Particularly in Children and Young Adults Resulting in Hospitalization and Death

eyeball · February 5, 2024

19 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Do you still believe it when the gov't says "EVRY Sientist in the werld says that....".

I never did.

SpankyMcFarland · February 5, 2024

9 hours ago, CdnFox said:

If as you say the medical professionals cannot be relied on in such crisis for political and practical reasons, then those who claim we should are wrong.

Which is kind of the point - people should have been all lowed to review the data and make their own decisions.

Individual practitioners are unreliable as a guide to best practice at the time but obviously those with expertise are better placed to understand the data in its full medical context. If I’m looking for answers to a medical question, give me a scientist over a politician any day of the week. The best sources of advice come from large studies that review as much reliable data as possible.

Edited February 5, 2024 by SpankyMcFarland

CdnFox · February 5, 2024

56 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

It still is. Ignoring all of the other dangers, side-effects and symptoms, COVID-19 infection is even more strongly associated with myocarditis than getting vaccinated, and at nearly double the rate.

"Myocarditis risk depends on the age and sex of the vaccine recipient. It is most common in younger males—adolescents or young adults. The highest risk group is males between 12 and 17 years of age. And in that highest risk group, the myocarditis risk after the second dose, which is the highest, is 35.9 per 100,000 people. In comparison, the risk post-infection in that same group is 64.9 per 100,000."

https://medicine.yale.edu/news-article/qanda-what-causes-rare-instances-of-myocarditis-after-mrna-covid-19-vaccines/

But the vaccine did not prevent you from getting covid after the first variant (and not completely then). For delta it wasn't very effective at preventing covid at all, far less than for the first variant and for omicron it was pretty much zero. What the vaccine did do is keep your symptoms more mild so you didn't wind up in the hospital or dead. But you still got it.

So for a 30 year old male for example if you got vaccinated you would still have all the dangers of the vaccine PLUS you'd have all the dangers of covid except for lower chance of severe illness, but 30 year olds didnt' get severely ill as a rule anyway. So you've got all the risks of both and none of the rewards.

I don't know how any reasonable person would say that was the "Safe" decision for that person to make. This latest research shows they would have had more risk and no reward.

Moonbox · February 5, 2024

11 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

But the vaccine did not prevent you from getting covid after the first variant (and not completely then). For delta it wasn't very effective at preventing covid at all, far less than for the first variant and for omicron it was pretty much zero. What the vaccine did do is keep your symptoms more mild so you didn't wind up in the hospital or dead. But you still got it.

A study of Omicron infections in England found that VE against symptomatic illness was similar between those who received 2 doses of either ChAdOx1 or BNT162b2 followed by a booster dose of BNT162b2, specifically 62.4% and 67.2% given 2–4 weeks after the booster, falling to 39.6% and 45.7%, respectively, after >10 weeks

11 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

So for a 30 year old male for example if you got vaccinated you would still have all the dangers of the vaccine PLUS you'd have all the dangers of covid except for lower chance of severe illness, but 30 year olds didnt' get severely ill as a rule anyway. So you've got all the risks of both and none of the rewards.

"As a rule" doesn't mean much, in this case. 7000+ people died of COVID in the 18-29 range in the USA. 92 people died total of myocarditis post-vaccination, according to your posted study. If 7000 deaths means no severe illness "as a rule", then we can similarly say that the vaccines had no dangerous side effects...as a rule.

11 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

I don't know how any reasonable person would say that was the "Safe" decision for that person to make. This latest research shows they would have had more risk and no reward.

It does not.

The study's actual conclusion was:

Further investigation into the underlying mechanisms of COVID-19 vaccine-induced myocarditis is imperative to create effective mitigation strategies and ensure the safety of COVID-19 vaccination programs across populations.

eyeball · February 5, 2024

22 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Than after the above, we were all supposed to believe that Trudeau did everything perfectly when we can all see, plain as day, that Trudeau f'd up royally.

I doubt there's anyone who didn't make mistakes. In hindsight the much higher rates of death, disease and hospitalizations make it plain as day that Trump and America f'd things up far worse than we did.

eyeball · February 5, 2024

16 hours ago, CdnFox said:

However - funny thing, he absolutely will not comment on the fact that we CAUGHT justin trudeau a NUMBER of times doing corrupt things without cameras, and left wing supporters like Eyeball kept him in power ANYWAY! So i'm not sure what the cameras are supposed to do?

LMAO!

We never caught anything. It was only due to whistleblowing by then Minister of Justice and Attorney General Jody Wilson-Raybould that we learned about the SNC Lavalin Affair. Stephen Harper's Accountability and Transparency Act did absolutely nothing to catch, prevent or punish Trudeau.

eyeball · February 5, 2024

12 hours ago, CdnFox said:

They haven't talked to them either. And - may i remind you that any doctor who spoke out with concerns was punished and often dismissed.

So how exactly can you trust them if they're being threatened and forced by the gov't to say what they say?

Well, the first thing I did was dismiss the ridiculous notion that the government was threatening or forcing them to do anything.

You people on the other hand were gaslit beyond hope to believe this claptrap long before COVID ever hit. COVID's most effective favourite vector was always right wing craziness.

CdnFox · February 5, 2024

42 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

A study of Omicron infections in England found that VE against symptomatic illness was similar between those who received 2 doses of either ChAdOx1 or BNT162b2 followed by a booster dose of BNT162b2, specifically 62.4% and 67.2% given 2–4 weeks after the booster, falling to 39.6% and 45.7%, respectively, after >10 weeks

Yeah- you could still get it and in fact that was likely. And there's no indication in any research i'm aware of that it needs to be symptomatic (not all covid cases are) to create the damages mentioned previously.

And that mirrors what we saw - omicron has run rampant with most people having had covid at least once now. So - they've still got the dangers of the vaccines AND - they probably still have had covid.

Sorry but that means more danger not less no matter how you slice it. There is still an excellent chance you'll have had covid AND the dangers of the booster.

Moonbox · February 5, 2024

27 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Yeah- you could still get it and in fact that was likely. And there's no indication in any research i'm aware of that it needs to be symptomatic (not all covid cases are) to create the damages mentioned previously.

Well even 40% VE is more than none, which is what you were saying. Also, when you got it, your symptoms were minor, if anything.

As far as the myocarditis is concerned, the research is suggesting that it's most likely from immuno-response related inflammation (thus not likely asymptomatic COVID).

27 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

And that mirrors what we saw - omicron has run rampant with most people having had covid at least once now. So - they've still got the dangers of the vaccines AND - they probably still have had covid.

Had COVID, barely felt a thing, didn't miss any work.

27 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Sorry but that means more danger not less no matter how you slice it. There is still an excellent chance you'll have had covid AND the dangers of the booster.

No, because the overwhelming majority of COVID deaths were amongst the unvaccinated. In the highest risk-group for vaccine side effects, and the lowest risk for death by COVID, COVID was still a bigger risk than myocarditis by a factor of 60-70x.

CdnFox · February 5, 2024

21 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

Well even 40% VE is more than none, which is what you were saying. Also, when you got it, your symptoms were minor, if anything.

Well not quite what i said but i think you're confusing what VE is. It's not the 'guarantee you'll never get it'.' If you are exposed more than the test then your chances go up, AND it drops to below 8 percent within 5 months i beileve and then falls off the map.

So for a short time it helps but in reality in a given year if you're exposed you're still likely to get it. IT's zero after enough time passes.

So no matter what they're still likely to get covid at some point. People are still getting it today.

Based on the latest research that means they're very likely to have both risks - meanwhile the number of 30 year old healthy males who die from covid is unbelievably low.

So it is an increase in risk with no likely benefit. No matter how you slice it .

2 hours ago, Moonbox said:

As a rule" doesn't mean much, in this case.

It means everything, Obviously. We're talking about an invidiual assessing their own risk.

2 hours ago, Moonbox said:

7000+ people died of COVID in the 18-29 range in the USA.

Died WITH covid, not necessarily OF covid. There's a difference. Also people within that age range aren't all healthy. What percent of those had diabeties for example which would increase risk? You'd also have to look at the difference of male female and such And while you're looking at deaths only many will have permanent damage as well which you're not accounting for as if that's not an issue. It is.

So that number by itself isn't useful. The risk of injury or death for health males about 30 years old

Quote

It does not.

It does -your quote isn't remotely relevant.

Based on what the research today a reasonable person can determine that the risk is higher for healthy 30 year old males for example taking the vaccine than their likely risk of dying from covid or even suffering from covid.

Now - this is usually where you have your hissy fit and focus on one point that's not relevant repetitively. Lets avoid that. I get you were trying to suggest otherwise because you would like it to be that way, but it's just not. A person who takes the vaccine has all the dangers of the vaccine and is very likely to get covid anyway and have both dangers to their long term health.

Moonbox · February 5, 2024

36 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Well not quite what i said but i think you're confusing what VE is. It's not the 'guarantee you'll never get it'.' If you are exposed more than the test then your chances go up, AND it drops to below 8 percent within 5 months i beileve and then falls off the map.

So for a short time it helps but in reality in a given year if you're exposed you're still likely to get it. IT's zero after enough time passes.

Yes, which is why the boosters are recommended. The various health ministries aren't telling anyone a single dose grants permanent immunity, are they?

36 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

- meanwhile the number of 30 year old healthy males who die from covid is unbelievably low.

...as is the number of them who died from myocarditis, though it's nearly twice as high from getting a COVID-19 infection than getting the vaccine.

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

Died WITH covid, not necessarily OF covid. There's a difference. Also people within that age range aren't all healthy.

The same goes for myocarditis. The study you posted wasn't restricted to only healthy males, was it?

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

Based on what the research today a reasonable person can determine that the risk is higher for healthy 30 year old males for example taking the vaccine than their likely risk of dying from covid or even suffering from covid.

Where does the report you posted say anything of the sort? Let's see who has a 'hissy fit' now? 🤣

CdnFox · February 6, 2024

2 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Yes, which is why the boosters are recommended. The various health ministries aren't telling anyone a single dose grants permanent immunity, are they? ...

So in other words the vaccine doesn't do the job for long and the person is still at risk unless they take it forever

So i was correct. Thanks,

Quote

as is the number of them who died from myocarditis, though it's nearly twice as high from getting a COVID-19 infection than getting the vaccine.

You don't actually have evidence of that at all. That does not appear to be accurate.

Quote

The same goes for myocarditis. The study you posted wasn't restricted to only healthy males, was it?

It noted they were the highest risk.

Quote

Where does the report you posted say anything of the sort? Let's see who has a 'hissy fit' now? 🤣

Looks like it's going to be you, as usual

I never claimed the report said that. Once again thats you fabricating things to try to prop up a weak position. I said the evidence we have. Lets review

So far it would appear that the vaccines will not prevent a healthy 30 year old male from getting covid over time. They start weak and the protection nosedives very fast.

The chances of a 30 year old dying from covid is Tiny. In fact your numbers are inaccurate - it was only about 900 deaths from 2022 and 2023. for men 30 and younger. that covers the timeline when they all would have had access to the vaccine. It also does not include those who had pre existing conditions that contributed substantially. So healthy men would have been much lower.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm

Statistica is great but not really appropriate here. That link is better

So again - a young healthy male would still have had far less risk of serious medical condition or death if they had not taken the vaccine vs having taken it given the facts we know to date. Assuming this study is accurate and we have no reason to believe it isn't.

So lets stop playing and pretending that somehow that's not the case and address the meat of the issue. We pressured and coerced young men like crazy to take that drug - and it turns out we put them in harms way doing so. Is it OK for a society to demand someone risk their lives and/or be forced to undergo medical treatment to protect others?

Is it ok some of these young people died or suffered permanent physical damage against their wishes for the benefit of someone else? If so - where do we draw that line? Were we in the right as a society to strip the japanese of their rights in ww2 for the greater good? How about coerced sterlization of native women whom the medical experts thought were bad parents?

It's an important discussion. Where does 'greater good' trump 'individual human right'?

Moonbox · February 6, 2024

12 hours ago, CdnFox said:

So in other words the vaccine doesn't do the job for long and the person is still at risk unless they take it forever

Like the flu shot?

12 hours ago, CdnFox said:

You don't actually have evidence of that at all. That does not appear to be accurate.

Except I do. When I make a specific claim, I actually have a direct quote on-deck to support it. You should try it.

According to the CDC, among males aged 12 to 17, about 22 to 36 per 100,000 experienced myocarditis within 21 days after receiving a second vaccine dose. Among unvaccinated males in this age group, the incidence of myocarditis was 50.1 to 64.9 cases per 100,000 after infection with the COVID-19 virus.

https://news.yale.edu/2023/05/05/yale-study-reveals-insights-post-vaccine-heart-inflammation-cases

Whoops.

GroundskeeperWillie · February 6, 2024

On 1/31/2024 at 12:06 AM, eyeball said:

No. It just is what it was. We still had to do something and given how high the death toll would've been without vaccine I think we did the right thing using it.

Covid "vaccines" don't prevent death or transmission. It merely manages symptoms if one does catch covid.

Btw, it is because of this, that covid vaccines aren't real vaccines.

myata · February 6, 2024

2 hours ago, Moonbox said:

22 to 36 per 100,000 experienced myocarditis within 21 days after receiving a second vaccine dose. Among unvaccinated males in this age group, the incidence of myocarditis was 50.1 to 64.9 cases per 100,000 after infection with the COVID-19 virus.

It is not the full story and so, no whoops. The so called vaccines do not prevent an infection, as is the common knowledge. They can reduce the severity of the symptoms in the more vulnerable groups but the thing is, in this age group they are so minor that many European jurisdictions did not recommend so called vaccines for it.

As a result:

In the vaccinated group, "the revved up" fraction could get the reaction after the vaccination (remember "the 21 days after") as well as the infection; unless further studies clarify this particular point; that would be an additional effect around 50%, on top of the unvaccinated group. Could it be the reason, along with the minimal positive effect that they were not recommended for this group in more responsible jurisdictions?

CdnFox · February 6, 2024

2 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Like the flu shot?

Exactly like the flu shot. Except that a) the flu shot is not mandatory and we DO let people choose if they want it or not and b) the flu shot doesn't make your heart explode.

So... a few key differences there

Quote

Except I do. When I make a specific claim, I actually have a direct quote on-deck to support it. You should try it.

Except you don't.

Quote

According to the CDC, among males aged 12 to 17, about 22 to 36 per 100,000 experienced myocarditis within 21 days after receiving a second vaccine dose. Among unvaccinated males in this age group, the incidence of myocarditis was 50.1 to 64.9 cases per 100,000 after infection with the COVID-19 virus.

https://news.yale.edu/2023/05/05/yale-study-reveals-insights-post-vaccine-heart-inflammation-cases

Whoops.

Ohhh sorry kiddo. First off that's older data and the report i posted would be newer than that. But - did you see your big mistake? Look again.... c'mon little guy you can do it....... No????

You didn't show the incidents of miycocarditis in vaccinaed males who got covid. Which as we previously noted, was common. Here's a little proof btw,

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/omicron-immunity-canada-covid-19-infection-vaccines-1.6581745

70-80% of younger Canadians estimated to have been infected as of this summer, new data shows

So how can you compare the effect of catching covid with or without the vaccine if you only have the 'without' number?!?!?

WHOOOOOOPS!!! LOLOLOL

So they get the shot - they catch covid anyway - they now have the dangers of heart problems from the shot AND the dangers of covid.

AND - the shot wears off but the heart damage doesn't so it's reasonable to suppose that after 4 or 5 months the damage from catching covid would be identical to the unvaccinated.

Holy shit kid - who taught you to think ? you absolutely suck at it

Well i do always appreciate you giving me the chance to prove you're no where near as smart as i am Which is a little sad when you think about it, if I"M the bar you can't reach

LOL -- so i guess you're going with hissy fit mode. Can't answer the questions i asked i guess? Just so butt hurt over looking stupid for the what, 10th time in a row? 11th? that you just can't be bothered to actually discuss something? Is that where you're at?

LOL well carry on, i'm sure your overheated little brain isn't ready to let it go yet

eyeball · February 6, 2024

2 hours ago, GroundskeeperWillie said:

Btw, it is because of this, that covid vaccines aren't real vaccines.

Whatever you want to call them there was far less death and illness amongst people who took them seriously than those who didn't.

Vaccine hesitancy, COVID conspiracies led to thousands of deaths, high cost for health care system, report finds

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-report-the-high-human-cost-of-misinformation/

CdnFox · February 6, 2024

4 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Whatever you want to call them there was far less death and illness amongst people who took them seriously than those who didn't.

Vaccine hesitancy, COVID conspiracies led to thousands of deaths, high cost for health care system, report finds

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-report-the-high-human-cost-of-misinformation/

It's clear you didn't read the article, especially because it's behind a paywall. So you found a headline that you thought made the point and then just posed it as "proof".

The report included a lot more than just vaccinations. It included hospitalizations from people attempting home treatments with dangerous products etc etc etc.

In fact - it's been kind of panned as being a bit of a bias attempt to blame anyone who doesn't believe in the vaccines for every single thing that happened including the poor state of the medical system at the time of covid.

But you wouldn't know. You didn't read it.

Bottom line is swing and a miss as usual.

eyeball · February 6, 2024

12 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

The report included a lot more than just vaccinations. It included hospitalizations from dingbats attempting home treatments with dangerous products etc etc etc.

Mmm hmmm I noticed that as well. Probably also too stupid to navigate their way around paywalls I guess.

Like I said stupid was always COVID's favourite vector.

CdnFox · February 6, 2024

10 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Mmm hmmm I noticed that as well.

You never even read it LOL you liar

Quote

Probably also too stupid to navigate their way around paywalls I guess.

Well then that would be something you have in common Or are you claiming you looked and realized there was a paywall, and then posted the paywall version despite having access to the non paywall version. Like this:

https://archive.ph/S168Y

Snicker you're totally busted kiddo. Next time dont' just google for a headline you like.

GroundskeeperWillie · February 6, 2024

49 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Whatever you want to call them there was far less death and illness amongst people who took them seriously than those who didn't.

Vaccine hesitancy, COVID conspiracies led to thousands of deaths, high cost for health care system, report finds

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-report-the-high-human-cost-of-misinformation/

Are you conceding that covid "vaccines" aren't real vaccines?

Further, if the authorities lied about covid shots being real vaccines, why should we believe anything else they say?

Edited February 6, 2024 by GroundskeeperWillie

Moonbox · February 6, 2024

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

Except you don't.

and yet the quote is still there with the link provided...which I apparently didn't provide?

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

You didn't show the incidents of miycocarditis in vaccinaed males who got covid. Which as we previously noted, was common. Here's a little proof btw,

I don't have to. They took myocarditis cases and broke them down by whether there'd been:

A ) A recent unvaccinated COVID cases

B ) A recent second-dose vaccine administered

The folks in column "B" would include the presumably small number who got COVID shortly after a booster vaccination.

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

LOL -- so i guess you're going with hissy fit mode.

I can keep my posts succinct and on-topic. You can't. Who's having a hissy-fit here? 🤣

eyeball · February 6, 2024

9 minutes ago, GroundskeeperWillie said:

Are you conceding that covid "vaccines" aren't real vaccines?

Nope and even if health authorities decided to call them treatments instead it still wouldn't have changed anything or given any reason to not avail yourself of them.

10 minutes ago, GroundskeeperWillie said:

Further, if the authorities lied about covid shots being real vaccines, why should we believe anything else they say?

There's nothing wrong with being skeptical of governments, there is however something wrong with subscribing to hooey, or that believing a couple of quotation marks changes anything.

CdnFox · February 6, 2024

12 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

and yet the quote is still there with the link provided..

And once again you have an english problem.

The quote did not say what you claim. it's not actually evidence of what we were discussing and i explained why.

Don't make me post the indygo post again

Quote

I don't have to. They took myocarditis cases and broke them down by whether there'd been:

A ) A recent unvaccinated COVID cases

B ) A recent second-dose vaccine administered

And i explained why you got that wrong, and you DO have to. Nice and slow. They don't review the data they'd need to.

ANd i'd hardly call 80 percent a' small number.

Your quote utterly fails to back up your post, sorry.

Quote

I can keep my posts succinct and on-topic. You can't. Who's having a hissy-fit here? 🤣

You are. It takes longer to eplain the truth than it does to invent bullshit And you're right back to your usual game of pretending english doesnt' mean what it does

The data you posted doesnt' demonstrate what you claimed. it's as simple as that.

As i've demonstrated over time males of certain age groups are more at risk from taking the shot.

And you're doing this because you're afraid to address the questions you're avoiding Which strongly suggests you believe the anti vaxxers were correct about their rights and you don't want to admit it.

eyeball · February 6, 2024

On 1/29/2024 at 11:16 PM, CdnFox said:

At the risk of getting some of our resident posters a little worked up....

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/epub/10.1177/20420986241226566

From the study...

What do the findings mean? The researchers found a strong link between COVID-19 vaccination and myocarditis, especially in kids and young adults. This can lead to hospital stays and, in some cases, death. We need to study more about how the COVID-19 vaccine might cause heart inflammation to find ways to prevent it and make sure the vaccine is safe for continued use in all age groups.

I note the authors didn't say we need to stop listening to woke left-lib Vax-Nazis.

Another swing and a miss kiddo.