Is Hate Speech Free Speech?

[Yakuda]

1 minute ago, impartialobserver said:

To view your son being gay as a success or failure infers that Strickland has ultimate control over that. Second, it says that he would view his son is a lesser light.. that is wrong IMO. Being gay is not immoral. 

You may be right on the first point but you're making an assumption on then second. 

 Correct, being gay isn't immoral. 

[Hodad]

13 minutes ago, Yakuda said:

No it's not.

So it's a truly awful horrible thing to say because it might hurt people's feelings? 

Yes, not solely because it hurts people's feelings, but also because it is purely negative. There is no upside. It's not meant to be a helpful hard truth. It's cruel for the sake of being cruel about an attribute which cannot even be controlled or changed. Much like denigrating people because of skin color.

 

[Yakuda]

11 minutes ago, Hodad said:

Yes, not solely because it hurts people's feelings, but also because it is purely negative. There is no upside. It's not meant to be a helpful hard truth. It's cruel for the sake of being cruel about an attribute which cannot even be controlled or changed. Much like denigrating people because of skin color.

 

So you've assigned motive to what he said. No one asked him what he meant by what he said. The reporter certainly didn't. It does t seem like you're very interested in what he may have meant either. 

[Hodad]

39 minutes ago, Yakuda said:

So you've assigned motive to what he said. No one asked him what he meant by what he said. The reporter certainly didn't. It does t seem like you're very interested in what he may have meant either. 

Lol. I don't think there's any mystery there. This is not secretly sophisticated speech which much be teased out and un-puzzled. It's exactly what it appears to be. 

[Yakuda]

17 minutes ago, Hodad said:

Lol. I don't think there's any mystery there. This is not secretly sophisticated speech which much be teased out and un-puzzled. It's exactly what it appears to be. 

Based on your assigned motivation, I would agree. 

[Hodad]

36 minutes ago, Yakuda said:

Based on your assigned motivation, I would agree. 

Great, so we can dispense with any pretense that this is anything other than what it is--a jackass publicly saying awful things--and return to the topic as desired. 

So this particular jackass is engaging in hate speech, yet is also free to speak, yet is also not free from social consequences--positive or negative.

Put a bow on it.

[Yakuda]

Just now, Hodad said:

Great, so we can dispense with any pretense that this is anything other than what it is--a jackass publicly saying awful things--and return to the topic as desired. 

So this particular jackass is engaging in hate speech, yet is also free to speak, yet is also not free from social consequences--positive or negative.

Put a bow on it.

Again assigning motive doesn't make it so. It hurt your feelings. Now youre angry. It doesn't appear as though Strickland ist too concerned with the "social consequences". LMBO 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Hodad said:

Shaming is good. It's how a society enforces decent behavior.

-So if I date a woman, and find out her body count is 170 men, and am disgusted. Is that disgust justified?

Plot twist. Her fetish is men fertilizing the field, so to speak. She reassures me she is on the pill, at seeing my horrified look. The look is more at her being a walking petri dish, and thankful we didn't kiss.

She accuses me of slut shaming her.

-An airline charges a 450lb woman two tickets as she can't fit in her seat. She posts online, as is  social influencer, telling kids the benefits of obesity and how beautiful it now is. People tell her to lose weight. She accuses them of fat shaming her.

-A trans woman who is 56 wants to shower at her niece's swimming pool.

In the shower are women and children. She disrobes, exposing a penis and testicles, along with a hairy and quite masculine, chest. She isn't passable.

Several women file a formal complaint. She accuses them of being transphobic, and tries to get them doxxed and humiliated.

Who sets the standard?

How are any of the above situations decent? 

Because someone was offended? 

So how can one state this is about decency for someone vs the suppression of something?

3 hours ago, Hodad said:

Free speech is in relationship to the government. It doesn't mean speech free of social consequence.

Correct, but if the consequences come from the government because someone said something offensive, is this setting a bad precedent?

I see it like making a transphobic joke and being arrested and having my passport revoked.

How is a fear of speaking freely, freedom?

3 hours ago, Hodad said:

I have no idea who Sean Strickland is outside the context of this conversation, but saying that having a gay son is failing as a man is a truly, awful, horrible thing to say.

You have never said something horrible in your life? Politically incorrect?

I joked about hiring a hit man would have been cheaper than divorce with my ex wife to my current one. I knew she was marriage material, when she countered with something darker.

Horrible thing to say. Okay, and? My ex wife was a horrible person. Put me through hell. I can't joke about putting poison in her food and burrying her lifeless body next to my dog in the backyard? Using popsicle sticks to make a cross as its cheaper?

Is my ex wife still alive? So what's the issue? I don't have a dog.

It's a joke. It was in the context of joking. If you don't approve the joke, marry her for 2 years and come tell me you don't have a hitman or two on speed dial. 

People could shame me all they want. It won't affect me any, nor would affect Strickland am sure.

Sorry, but brittle feelings being hurt, is a pretty low standard to set.

[CdnFox]

9 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

-So if I date a woman, and find out her body count is 170 men, and am disgusted. Is that disgust justified?

Plot twist. Her fetish is men fertilizing the field, so to speak. She reassures me she is on the pill, at seeing my horrified look. The look is more at her being a walking petri dish, and thankful we didn't kiss.

What the hell bars have you been going to??

[Guest]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

What the hell bars have you been going to??

Heh, was giving an example of a woman I had chatted with on a dating website after months of convincing from friends.

She wanted to video chat prior to meeting to make sure I looked like my pictures.

She then follows it up by telling me her body count, and how much she likes wearing thin leggings with no underwear while using the stationary bikes at the gym. Just the most horndog like person I had ever met.

I should have been enjoying the convo, but I didn't realize the judgmental look I was giving her, happy we hadn't spent time in the flesh.

I told my friends dating websites weren't for me o_O

I have met freaky girls at bars, but nothing that nasty.

She got angry for my slut shaming look.

Sorry, but if my wife wore leggings with deliberate camel toe, I would leave her where she stood.

That is not sexy. If I wanted a ratchet hoe, I would have given that girl my number.

[Hodad]

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

-So if I date a woman, and find out her body count is 170 men, and am disgusted. Is that disgust justified?

Plot twist. Her fetish is men fertilizing the field, so to speak. She reassures me she is on the pill, at seeing my horrified look. The look is more at her being a walking petri dish, and thankful we didn't kiss.

She accuses me of slut shaming her.

-An airline charges a 450lb woman two tickets as she can't fit in her seat. She posts online, as is  social influencer, telling kids the benefits of obesity and how beautiful it now is. People tell her to lose weight. She accuses them of fat shaming her.

-A trans woman who is 56 wants to shower at her niece's swimming pool.

In the shower are women and children. She disrobes, exposing a penis and testicles, along with a hairy and quite masculine, chest. She isn't passable.

Several women file a formal complaint. She accuses them of being transphobic, and tries to get them doxxed and humiliated.

Who sets the standard?

How are any of the above situations decent? 

Because someone was offended? 

So how can one state this is about decency for someone vs the suppression of something?

Correct, but if the consequences come from the government because someone said something offensive, is this setting a bad precedent?

I see it like making a transphobic joke and being arrested and having my passport revoked.

How is a fear of speaking freely, freedom?

You have never said something horrible in your life? Politically incorrect?

I joked about hiring a hit man would have been cheaper than divorce with my ex wife to my current one. I knew she was marriage material, when she countered with something darker.

Horrible thing to say. Okay, and? My ex wife was a horrible person. Put me through hell. I can't joke about putting poison in her food and burrying her lifeless body next to my dog in the backyard? Using popsicle sticks to make a cross as its cheaper?

Is my ex wife still alive? So what's the issue? I don't have a dog.

It's a joke. It was in the context of joking. If you don't approve the joke, marry her for 2 years and come tell me you don't have a hitman or two on speed dial. 

People could shame me all they want. It won't affect me any, nor would affect Strickland am sure.

Sorry, but brittle feelings being hurt, is a pretty low standard to set.

1. Social standards change all the time. There is no bright line. Shame is the mechanism of enforcement. If you take up two seats, pay for two tickets. Fair is fair. And there are plenty of emotionally healthy ways to opt out of your relationship with another person for any number of reasons, including the number of partners.

2. Some speech may merit legal action (government) but most does not. Again, you can think of obvious examples that constitute threats or incitement of violence.

3. Hating the individual who is your ex-wife is just that. It's not hate speech to hate the person who has done things to you. It's personal dynamics. You're not terrorizing a marginalized group. 

I can think of a few horrible-ish things I said as a kid. I grew up. I was a pretty good kid with decent parents who didn't preach hate, so nothing truly awful, but some things I'm ashamed of in retrospect and wouldn't want publicized now. But that's the difference, isn't it. I grew up. I learned right and wrong. I learned the power of words and I learned that casually hurting people is not smart or funny or hip or cool. It's just cruel. Strickland should hear the criticism and grow from it. Chances are, at his age, it's not a lack of knowledge, but a deliberate choice. And in that case people who look up to him should get the message that he's flawed and wrong and perhaps not worthy of their admiration. That's the purpose of shaming.

[Hodad]

2 hours ago, Yakuda said:

Again assigning motive doesn't make it so. It hurt your feelings. Now youre angry. It doesn't appear as though Strickland ist too concerned with the "social consequences". LMBO 

And you pretending the plain language is layered, nuanced or otherwise deserving of deep exploration doesn't make it so. It's just sophistry, meant to defend the indefensible. 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Hodad said:

I learned the power of words

I learned talk is cheap, which is why I am more about my actions towards others.

6 minutes ago, Hodad said:

he's flawed

You're perfect?

People look up to him because he came from an extremely abusive past, and made something of himself. Not because he is perfect.

8 minutes ago, Hodad said:

That's the purpose of shaming.

It's asserting control over behavior. 

If wanting to eradicate dissenting views, or social dissent its a very good tool as a result.

10 minutes ago, Hodad said:

some things I'm ashamed of in retrospect and wouldn't want publicized now.

I have no shame. If I say it, I meant it. Probably why its hurtful to people who know me, as they know I don't mince my words when annoyed.

10 minutes ago, Hodad said:

Hating the individual who is your ex-wife is just that.

I don't hate her. You're missing the point. It was said as a joke. I forgave my ex, and our divorce was peaceful. We could bump into each other and hug and talk.

I don't hate anyone. That's allowing someone to live rent free inside my mind. I forgive and move on.

12 minutes ago, Hodad said:

If you take up two seats, pay for two tickets

What if the current standard finds this as being fat shaming?

Shaming is highly ineffective.

Shaming is all about the PR of not getting caught.

You only grow from accepting you were wrong. 

This cannot be done by force.

You're misconstruing bullying with personal growth.

[CdnFox]

39 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Heh, was giving an example of a woman I had chatted with on a dating website after months of convincing from friends.

She wanted to video chat prior to meeting to make sure I looked like my pictures.

She then follows it up by telling me her body count, and how much she likes wearing thin leggings with no underwear while using the stationary bikes at the gym. Just the most horndog like person I had ever met.

I should have been enjoying the convo, but I didn't realize the judgmental look I was giving her, happy we hadn't spent time in the flesh.

I told my friends dating websites weren't for me o_O

I have met freaky girls at bars, but nothing that nasty.

She got angry for my slut shaming look.

Sorry, but if my wife wore leggings with deliberate camel toe, I would leave her where she stood.

That is not sexy. If I wanted a ratchet hoe, I would have given that girl my number.

Single life is tough these days

[QuebecOverCanada]

23 hours ago, Hodad said:

I mostly feel insulted by your lazy trolling. Even dumb people understand that one can earnestly and actively support causes without wanting to live them, or without it even being practical to live them.

"You support Doctors Without Borders? Where's your medical license and why aren't you practicing orthopedics in Uganda? Hyuk hyuk."

Yet you persist in repeating your trite line. It isn't clever. No one thinks it's clever. You, yourself, can't possibly imagine it's clever, incisive or illuminating. You just repeat it to be a jackass. 

It's frustrating that people aren't smarter, and more frustrating when those who could be treasure more pleasure in playing dumb.

 

There is a big difference.

You may go to Ukraine and die for your ideals there, enroll now if you mean what you believe in. On the other hand, you are not qualified to be a doctor and will never be.

In every war, there is a war mongerer like you, at the comfort of its mother's basement, calling for war... that others will fight for, while you're on your couch. You are an armchair general, a keyboard warrior, a chickenhawk. You would never, ever fight in real life, let it be in a war you so desire.

I dare you to fight the same way and sacrifice your own life as much as you want others to do so in Ukraine for "freedom" as you said.

[Hodad]

33 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

There is a big difference.

You may go to Ukraine and die for your ideals there, enroll now if you mean what you believe in. On the other hand, you are not qualified to be a doctor and will never be.

In every war, there is a war mongerer like you, at the comfort of its mother's basement, calling for war... that others will fight for, while you're on your couch. You are an armchair general, a keyboard warrior, a chickenhawk. You would never, ever fight in real life, let it be in a war you so desire.

I dare you to fight the same way and sacrifice your own life as much as you want others to do so in Ukraine for "freedom" as you said.

Well, you've been corrected multiple times. At this point, you're just blatantly lying.

I have never called for war. If the Ukrainians didn't want to fight for their freedom, that would be fine with me. But they do, and anyone fighting for their freedom has my support.

Enjoy giant dildo.

Edited January 23, 2024 by Hodad

[Hodad]

3 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

I learned talk is cheap, which is why I am more about my actions towards others.

You're perfect?

People look up to him because he came from an extremely abusive past, and made something of himself. Not because he is perfect.

It's asserting control over behavior. 

If wanting to eradicate dissenting views, or social dissent its a very good tool as a result.

I have no shame. If I say it, I meant it. Probably why its hurtful to people who know me, as they know I don't mince my words when annoyed.

I don't hate her. You're missing the point. It was said as a joke. I forgave my ex, and our divorce was peaceful. We could bump into each other and hug and talk.

I don't hate anyone. That's allowing someone to live rent free inside my mind. I forgive and move on.

What if the current standard finds this as being fat shaming?

Shaming is highly ineffective.

Shaming is all about the PR of not getting caught.

You only grow from accepting you were wrong. 

This cannot be done by force.

You're misconstruing bullying with personal growth.

^^This is just a sort of stream of consciousness. 

Bullying is not personal growth, and the primary way in which lessons are learned is through corrective feedback.

I really don't care about some meathead who gets paid to fight people, like we live in ancient Rome. If he learns, great. If he refuses to learn and gets cancelled, great. Either way a bad behavior loses it's platform. Go shame, go

[Yakuda]

3 hours ago, Hodad said:

And you pretending the plain language is layered, nuanced or otherwise deserving of deep exploration doesn't make it so. It's just sophistry, meant to defend the indefensible. 

No just explain how you know what his motivation is. If you haven't asked them you're just assigning motivation. Sorry but I trust the accuracy of that about as much as I do Biden's ability  to utter a coherent sentence. That is to say, not at all. 

[QuebecOverCanada]

1 hour ago, Hodad said:

Well, you've been corrected multiple times. At this point, you're just blatantly lying.

I have never called for war. If the Ukrainians didn't want to fight for their freedom, that would be fine with me. But they do, and anyone fighting for their freedom has my support.

Enjoy giant dildo.

Enjoy practising what you preach.

I really wish you that for the war in Ukraine.

[Hodad]

8 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

Enjoy practising what you preach.

I really wish you that for the war in Ukraine.

And I hope you enjoy your life as a useless troll. If you haven't got anything else going for you, at least you have that. Now go fark off 

[Hodad]

13 minutes ago, Yakuda said:

No just explain how you know what his motivation is. If you haven't asked them you're just assigning motivation. Sorry but I trust the accuracy of that about as much as I do Biden's ability  to utter a coherent sentence. That is to say, not at all. 

What if I were to say to you that you're a useless piece of of human garbage, a mistake of nature, and the world would be better off had your mother's attempted coat hanger abortion been fully successful rather than simply causing brain damage? 

In that hypothetical, am I giving you valuable constructive criticism? Is there any hidden motivation? Or is it just a shitty, mean thing to say about someone?

How about if I say that your skin color is an abomination that makes you sub-human? 

The game you're playing right now is a dumb game. Sophistry is lazy and boring. If you think there is some hidden motive beyond the blatantly obvious plain reading, show it. 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Hodad said:

Bullying is not personal growth, and the primary way in which lessons are learned is through corrective feedback.

You're missing a key ingredient.

Self-awareness. Without it, feedback is nothing more than a personal attack. Useless.

Learning from bullying, is personal growth. 

Main reason why drug rehab requires a party that knows they have an issue. More importantly, knowing that they need to change, thus opening their mind to it.

8 hours ago, Hodad said:

I really don't care about some meathead who gets paid to fight people, like we live in ancient Rome.

Well, considering the UFC is a multi billion dollar corporation, we have millions of people who appreciate ancient Rome?

Or, there is an insanely high skill level on display, considering the multiple disciplines one must master.

Probably why so many UFC fighters have university and college education.

8 hours ago, Hodad said:

If he learns, great. 

Learns what? That a male who wears a dress is now a woman? Highly doubt anyone with common sense would ever believe in any more than two genders.

Only lesson there, is that being gay isn't weakness. There were two gay women who fought before his fight that put a chess match on display.

He also clarified his point. He loves gay people. He hates trans ideology.

8 hours ago, Hodad said:

If he refuses to learn and gets cancelled, great.

Arena was sold out chanting f*** Trudeau. So much for cancelation.

8 hours ago, Hodad said:

Either way a bad behavior loses it's platform. 

No. Behavior that goes against the current ideology. Tons of bad behavior that goes unpunished.

21 Savage can shoot ops in videos, and refer to women as to the cavities he thinks they are. Plug drug dealing and killing people you don't like. Good.

But if he made a transphobic comment. WTF. Too far!

Its precisely people like you, who are responsible for the social decay in the west. 

Being a stand up man is no longer in vogue.

 

[Yakuda]

7 hours ago, Hodad said:

What if I were to say to you that you're a useless piece of of human garbage, a mistake of nature, and the world would be better off had your mother's attempted coat hanger abortion been fully successful rather than simply causing brain damage? 

In that hypothetical, am I giving you valuable constructive criticism? Is there any hidden motivation? Or is it just a shitty, mean thing to say about someone?

How about if I say that your skin color is an abomination that makes you sub-human? 

The game you're playing right now is a dumb game. Sophistry is lazy and boring. If you think there is some hidden motive beyond the blatantly obvious plain reading, show it. 

What about it? 

I don't know because I wouldn't know your motivation.

But your opinion doesn't determine if I am subhuman or not. I'm not offended by people's opinions if me. 

You're the only to one playing a game. There usually is hidden behind words but unlike you I won't assume the motivation I would ask but only if I care what you think. 

Why do you care what Strickland thinks? Because you're offended? Thats childish 

[Nationalist]

8 hours ago, Hodad said:

What if I were to say to you that you're a useless piece of of human garbage, a mistake of nature, 

How about if I say that your skin color is an abomination that makes you sub-human? 

"co-founder of the Toronto Black Lives Matter chapter, Yusra Khogali, asserted that “white people are a genetic defect of blackness.” She claims that “whiteness is not humxness” and that “white skin is sub-humxn,” citing white people as “recessive genetic defects."

I understand you support BLM?

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Nationalist said:

white skin is sub-humxn

This is why the media gets ridiculed, and why so many no longer trust them with information. 

If you call her out, they point to the issues facing black communities.

She's just bringing attention to it, and is "punching up".

But if you raise the issue about topics that are "unnacceptable views" then you are silenced and canceled. How is hate speech and violence unnacceptable, but fine if they do it?

I mean, she literally posted about struggling not to kill white people.

Nobody within her movement or many in the media bat an eyelid. Same people feel shaming sets "good" standards.

Reverse racism is still racism.

Bullying by "punching up", is like calling a bun a "man bun" like that makes it any more masculine. Its no different than Bullying and racism.