A Catastrophic Climate ‘Tipping Point’ Is Imminent

[Rebound]

2 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Who foots the tab?

I am not denying there is climate change. What am saying, is telling us how urgent it is, won't make any if us able to afford the rectifying technologies overnight.

Excellent question!

Tell us what costs the most:

1. A gallon of gas
2. A gust of wind
3. A ray of sunshine
4. A burst of volcanic steam

So, yes, you must build a plant. Whether that plant is gas, coal, solar or wind, you have a large capital cost to build it, and you must maintain it. But the fuel costs of geothermal, solar and wind are zero. Further, solar and wind can be added in much smaller increments than any other form.  One panel or one windmill at a time.  That’s a far less capital intensive method that building massive new coal or gas turbines.  

[Michael Hardner]

You really shouldn't feed the trolls folks.  If you're bored, come up with a new interesting topic for people on here who argue in good faith.

And use the IGNORE feature.

[Deluge]

16 minutes ago, Rebound said:

“Climate” is not “the weather.”
Climate “change” can mean severe temperature swings in both directions and more severe storms, which we have clearly witnessed.  

Great, so let's start with severe temperature swings. 

Talk about "severe temperature swings" here in the US. Are we all experiencing it? 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Rebound said:

has rapidly transitioned to electric motorbikes and scooters

Have you been to New Delhi lately?

Its considered among the most or one of the most polluted cities in the world.

You're essentially glossing over notes, ignoring the reality of life there.

IE in cooler regions and seasons, how do you expect the poor to stay warm, other than lighting fires with whatever burning materials they can find?

With poor regulation on existing vehicles, "belching" diesel vehicles is the norm.

I have countless been to some of these countries, finding myself with migraines and coughing out black soot if I didn't wear a mask during congestion.

Your electric vehicles don't remotely begin to put a dent on their pollution.

If you've been to a poorer Asian country, you will also know, farmers often will burn off excess crops, along with the poorest burning their waste due to the lack of sanitation services.

This goes without mentioning the massive garbage dumps that sit in the hot sun, causing fires on a regular basis.

Again. Who foots the monumental bill go overhaul not only waste removal, but down to manufacturing, and existing ICE regulations, to truly put a dent on the astronomically high pollution levels India produces?

EVs don't change the air and water pollution produced here. 

2 hours ago, Rebound said:

cleans the air.. 

Sorry, but you clearly haven't ever stepped foot in India, let alone their largest city.

33 minutes ago, robosmith said:

The solutions are available and growing, and you're claiming there are people who can't afford them.

Invest in them. What am saying, is that panic won't help anyone and it will take decades to fully start reaching set targets for many of the countries setting them.

Am being realistic and pragmatic. This isn't an overnight fix. 

35 minutes ago, robosmith said:

OTC, we can't afford to NOT implement them.

Tell that to a third world country with little to no funding.

Global warming doesn't remotely factor into the conversation there. I know as a fact its a western issue (boggles my mind you don't see the privilege behind it), because in the poorest countries I have been to, not starving to death, tops the list for a significant portion of the population.

40 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Poor countries citizens don't use nearly as much fossil fuels as the US, China and India.

Have you been to one, lately? Its not just the use, but how dirty that it exhausts.

We have emissions regulations.

The poorest countries do not. "Belching" diesel cars and trucks as a result, is the norm.

Very hard to implement EV busses, when one costs nearly a million. You could easily buy a cheap bus for pennies, in comparison and have a fleet of 5 - 10 at the same rate.

It makes absolutely no sense.

One needs to be pragmatic. What is available in infrastructure and cash and what can be done within that.

Observe the climate, before pitching wind turbines, or similar, especially if you're monsoon and earthquake prone.

Unreliable electricity is the norm. Fix that first.

[robosmith]

36 minutes ago, Deluge said:

No, I'm paying a big bill for your stoopid a$$ pipe dream, and that needs to stop. 

There is no climate change. 

Too bad you're too ignorant to understand the science, let alone know whether the effect is real.

I mean you keep pretending cause YOU can't "see" it, it doesn't exist; when you're not paying attention, nor know what to look for.

[Deluge]

2 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Too bad you're too ignorant to understand the science, let alone know whether the effect is real.

I mean you keep pretending cause YOU can't "see" it, it doesn't exist; when you're not paying attention, nor know what to look for.

Well tell me what I should be looking for, professor. I'm anxious to learn. 

[Deluge]

26 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

You really shouldn't feed the trolls folks.  If you're bored, come up with a new interesting topic for people on here who argue in good faith.

And use the IGNORE feature.

You'd better do as you're told, lemmings. Fuhrer Hardner prefers to have his opinions (and your opinions) go unchallenged.

[robosmith]

23 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Have you been to one, lately? Its not just the use, but how dirty that it exhausts.

Yes, I visited Kathmandu earlier this year. Seems most people walk or ride bikes or motorcycles there.

Soon those motorcycles will be electric.

23 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

We have emissions regulations.

The poorest countries do not. "Belching" diesel cars and trucks as a result, is the norm.

When I first visited Paris in the 1980s, their air was much dirtier than ours. I could smell it. By this year they've cleaned it up dramatically.

23 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Very hard to implement EV busses, when one costs nearly a million. You could easily buy a cheap bus for pennies, in comparison and have a fleet of 5 - 10 at the same rate.

Only ONE bus line in Kathmandu for a city of 4M. Try google maps. The only hint of a bus line is the stops lining up on the map. AKA no schedule at all.

23 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

It makes absolutely no sense.

One needs to be pragmatic. What is available in infrastructure and cash and what can be done within that.

Observe the climate, before pitching wind turbines, or similar, especially if you're monsoon and earthquake prone.

Unreliable electricity is the norm. Fix that first.

 

If US, China and India adopt renewables, that'll go a long way toward fixing the problems and making it cheaper for poorer countries.

Edited December 15, 2023 by robosmith

[robosmith]

14 minutes ago, Deluge said:

Well tell me what I should be looking for, professor. I'm anxious to learn. 

Watch Nature on PBS. They often mention the impact of climate change on wildlife.

Read Scientific American. Of course there is a lot there you will have difficulty understanding.

Just listen to the EXPERTS explain it to you like the article in the OP.

But I suspect you're really NOT INTERESTED like you said before.

[Deluge]

7 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Watch Nature on PBS.

No. I hear it from you or any other nature head on this forum, or I don't hear it at all. 

Tell me what I should be looking for. 

[WestCanMan]

The problem with the global warming craze is that it comes from the people who lie bout everything.

"There were some mostly peaceful protests last night, and global warming is an existential threat."

"If you are vaccinated you don't need to worry about covid, but unvaccinated people can give you covid that might kill you. Global warming is a huge issue."

"G Floyd was killed because of racism. We're keeping exculpatory video footage from the public while riots are destroying the country. Global warming is an issue."

"Trayvon was just a cute little black kid out buying Skittles when he was killed because of his skin colour. Global warming is an issue."

"BLM peace activists gave the police detachment in Seattle some time off for what's being called "The Summer of Love". Everyone in the area thinks it's beautiful. Global warming is going to kill everyone."

"We think it's awesome that the president said that protests at SCJ's homes are just fine. Global warming will kill you."

"Trudeau handled covid perfectly. It made sense to allow people to fly in from Wuhan without masks or quarantines and just let them wander around malls, ride transit, etc, and then to shut down outdoor parks one week later. It made sense to give away all our PPE to China. It's ok that he forgot to order vaccines from the US, so we were last in line, and we had to poach our first 1.9M vaccines from the 3rd world charity pool. Global warming will kill you."

"The Afghan withdrawal was a smashing success. Global warming will kill you."

"Trump shouldn't have killed Suleimani - he was a beloved father figure to the Iranian people. Global warming will kill you."

 

Honestly, my biggest reason for not believing in global warming is that the people who do the most crying about global warming are either 1) the biggest liars on earth, like CNN, or 2) they have the private jets and yachts and they have the same carbon footprint as a large town.

Do you think I'm gonna believe these guys?

https://www.cnn.com/videos/weather/2018/09/15/weatherman-criticized-for-being-overdramatic-hurricane-florence-lc-orig.cnn

How many times can CNN lie to people before you lose faith in them? It's way past bizarre now.

[Rebound]

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

Have you been to New Delhi lately?

Its considered among the most or one of the most polluted cities in the world.

You're essentially glossing over notes, ignoring the reality of life there.

IE in cooler regions and seasons, how do you expect the poor to stay warm, other than lighting fires with whatever burning materials they can find?

With poor regulation on existing vehicles, "belching" diesel vehicles is the norm.

I have countless been to some of these countries, finding myself with migraines and coughing out black soot if I didn't wear a mask during congestion.

Your electric vehicles don't remotely begin to put a dent on their pollution.

If you've been to a poorer Asian country, you will also know, farmers often will burn off excess crops, along with the poorest burning their waste due to the lack of sanitation services.

This goes without mentioning the massive garbage dumps that sit in the hot sun, causing fires on a regular basis.

Again. Who foots the monumental bill go overhaul not only waste removal, but down to manufacturing, and existing ICE regulations, to truly put a dent on the astronomically high pollution levels India produces?

EVs don't change the air and water pollution produced here. 

Sorry, but you clearly haven't ever stepped foot in India, let alone their largest city.

Invest in them. What am saying, is that panic won't help anyone and it will take decades to fully start reaching set targets for many of the countries setting them.

Am being realistic and pragmatic. This isn't an overnight fix. 

Tell that to a third world country with little to no funding.

Global warming doesn't remotely factor into the conversation there. I know as a fact its a western issue (boggles my mind you don't see the privilege behind it), because in the poorest countries I have been to, not starving to death, tops the list for a significant portion of the population.

Have you been to one, lately? Its not just the use, but how dirty that it exhausts.

We have emissions regulations.

The poorest countries do not. "Belching" diesel cars and trucks as a result, is the norm.

Very hard to implement EV busses, when one costs nearly a million. You could easily buy a cheap bus for pennies, in comparison and have a fleet of 5 - 10 at the same rate.

It makes absolutely no sense.

One needs to be pragmatic. What is available in infrastructure and cash and what can be done within that.

Observe the climate, before pitching wind turbines, or similar, especially if you're monsoon and earthquake prone.

Unreliable electricity is the norm. Fix that first.

Or… their habitat is destroyed and they die in massive numbers.  Cause India can’t get any friggin hotter, I’ll tell you that.  
not alarmist, just telling the truth. 

[robosmith]

40 minutes ago, Deluge said:

No. I hear it from you or any other nature head on this forum, or I don't hear it at all. 

Tell me what I should be looking for. 

Why would you trust random internet posters more than EXPERTS with PhDs on documentaries?

You should be looking for explanations from EXPERTS WITH CREDENTIALS.

[Deluge]

8 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Why would you trust random internet posters more than EXPERTS with PhDs on documentaries?

You should be looking for explanations from EXPERTS WITH CREDENTIALS.

Because you're accessible and I plan to shoot holes in everything you post.

[robosmith]

31 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Do you think I'm gonna believe these guys?

https://www.cnn.com/videos/weather/2018/09/15/weatherman-criticized-for-being-overdramatic-hurricane-florence-lc-orig.cnn

How many times can CNN lie to people before you lose faith in them? It's way past bizarre now.

Do you not see the irony of using a link to CNN to claim CNN is lying to you?

Instead you still believe Tucker Carlson and FOS LIES after it was proven they lied extensively and had to pay an $800M penalty for LYING.

Just now, Deluge said:

Because you're accessible and I plan to shoot holes in everything you post.

I already posted dozens of reports from Scientific American. 

Shoot holes in those IF YOU CAN. But you cannot.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, robosmith said:

Yes, I visited Kathmandu earlier this year. Seems most people walk or ride bikes or motorcycles there.

If you had visited Manila, New Delhi or places like Dhaka, you would know why I asked.

They are incredibly polluted cities. Their transportation systems are well behind in terms of western standards, and their population densities are among the highest on planet earth.

ICE vehicles also, are king. Most running on dirty emissions, due to lack of enforcement on culprits.

Where we agree, is on trikes, motorcycles being in high numbers, but more due to that very congestion of cars, trucks and buses that make cars impractical, if you want to move in such cities. Bicycles aren't practical in such large cities.

You can eliminate cars, but you need to provide better sanitation to eliminate the bigger issue. 

Trash burning from the poorest. Something I saw plenty of. 

People throwing waste and raw sewage in the ocean and rivers, because they don't have any form of means to dispose of such waste.

Massive manufacturing plants that pay bribes, to continue to pollute with high emissions. 

You're over-simplifying a very daunting task.

Shaming and pushing how dire this is, isn't how you solve these problems.

1 hour ago, robosmith said:

When I first visited Paris in the 1980s

Paris is not Bangladesh or India.

1 hour ago, robosmith said:

Only ONE bus line in Kathmandu for a city of 4M.

Soooo, nothing like New Delhi, or Manila, or any of the cities I was talking about.

 

 

[robosmith]

2 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Soooo, nothing like New Delhi, or Manila, or any of the cities I was talking about.

Right. Kathmandu is far more representative of most of the third world.

I visited Manila in early 90s. Too many cars and the drivers are crazy. A lot like Cairo in that regard.

Almost every car on the road has dents.

Hate those very loud Jitneys.

 

[Rebound]

2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

The problem with the global warming craze is that it comes from the people who lie bout everything.

"There were some mostly peaceful protests last night, and global warming is an existential threat."

"If you are vaccinated you don't need to worry about covid, but unvaccinated people can give you covid that might kill you. Global warming is a huge issue."

"G Floyd was killed because of racism. We're keeping exculpatory video footage from the public while riots are destroying the country. Global warming is an issue."

"Trayvon was just a cute little black kid out buying Skittles when he was killed because of his skin colour. Global warming is an issue."

"BLM peace activists gave the police detachment in Seattle some time off for what's being called "The Summer of Love". Everyone in the area thinks it's beautiful. Global warming is going to kill everyone."

"We think it's awesome that the president said that protests at SCJ's homes are just fine. Global warming will kill you."

"Trudeau handled covid perfectly. It made sense to allow people to fly in from Wuhan without masks or quarantines and just let them wander around malls, ride transit, etc, and then to shut down outdoor parks one week later. It made sense to give away all our PPE to China. It's ok that he forgot to order vaccines from the US, so we were last in line, and we had to poach our first 1.9M vaccines from the 3rd world charity pool. Global warming will kill you."

"The Afghan withdrawal was a smashing success. Global warming will kill you."

"Trump shouldn't have killed Suleimani - he was a beloved father figure to the Iranian people. Global warming will kill you."

 

Honestly, my biggest reason for not believing in global warming is that the people who do the most crying about global warming are either 1) the biggest liars on earth, like CNN, or 2) they have the private jets and yachts and they have the same carbon footprint as a large town.

Do you think I'm gonna believe these guys?

https://www.cnn.com/videos/weather/2018/09/15/weatherman-criticized-for-being-overdramatic-hurricane-florence-lc-orig.cnn

How many times can CNN lie to people before you lose faith in them? It's way past bizarre now.

Nothing you put in quotation marks is an actual quotation. But here’s an actual quotation: “Windmills cause cancer” — Donald Trump. Surely you don’t believe that.

Why is it that the right-wing is in denial about climate change? Is there any possibility that the oil companies like Koch and Exxon are funding the GOP for the purpose of denying climate change?

See the facts for yourself

https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/arctic-sea-ice/

Edited December 15, 2023 by Rebound

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, Rebound said:

Nothing you put in quotation marks is an actual quotation. But here’s an actual quotation: “Windmills cause cancer” — Donald Trump. Surely you don’t believe that.

Everything that I put in quotation marks is a perfect summary of the MSM's position on the topic at the beginning of the quote, and on global warming.

Quote

Why is it that the right-wing is in denial about climate change?

I just told you. The 3 main groups supporting the climate change drivel are all hypocrites and liars. 1)Dems/Libs, 2) people who fly in private planes, own multiple monster homes and cruise in yachts 3) The alt-left MSM

1 and 3 are the biggest liars on earth, and if billionaires cared about the environment then they'd cut back a LOT on their carbon footprint. 

Quote

Is there any possibility that the oil companies like Koch and Exxon are funding the GOP for the purpose of denying climate change?

Lobbyists are pushing a lot of agendas on gov'ts that aren't in our best interests.

Do you think that the Saudi oil companies, whose products have been sold in Trudeau family gas stations for several decades, don't have words with the Trudeaus?

Do you think that they are ecstatic about Canada's oil production or do they speak to the Trudeaus about curtailing our domestic oil production?

What have the Trudeaus traditionally done to the energy sector in Canada? 

Why did Alberta have to get rid of their 5 coal-fired plants to save the environment, and then just put that same coal onto rail cars, ship it to vancouver, ship it across the entire pacific ocean, load it back onto trains to travel another 1,000 km to be burned?

The price of electricity in Alberta is way up from before. The coal is still getting burned, there is just a massive amount of fossil fuels burned to get the coal to its final destination now. 

[robosmith]

16 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Everything that I put in quotation marks is a perfect summary of the MSM's position on the topic at the beginning of the quote, and on global warming.

Double quotes DO NOT mean YOUR IMAGINED "summary." and "the MSM" is NOT a monolithic block. Did you know that FOS LIES is mainstream due to their market share? Greater than CNN and MSNBC.

 

Quote

In total day viewership, FNC has 49% of the audience share and 45% in the 25-54 demo, again easily leading the cable news competition with CNN at 21% P2+ and 31% A25-54, and MSNBC at 30% P2+ and 24% A25-54.Nov 29, 2023

 

[Aristides]

6 hours ago, Deluge said:

Great, so let's start with severe temperature swings. 

Talk about "severe temperature swings" here in the US. Are we all experiencing it? 

90% of the increased heat is being stored in the oceans so you can start by building a 20ft dike around Florida and the Gulf states.

[Deluge]

19 hours ago, Aristides said:

90% of the increased heat is being stored in the oceans so you can start by building a 20ft dike around Florida and the Gulf states.

I can start building a dike? Why hasn't Florida and the Gulf states already been doing that? 

You think 90% of the increased heat is in the oceans, so where is the rise in the other 10%? 

 

[Deluge]

On 12/15/2023 at 2:06 PM, robosmith said:

I already posted dozens of reports from Scientific American. 

Shoot holes in those IF YOU CAN. But you cannot.

You've posted unsubstantiated bullshit. "Climate Change" is left-wing propaganda - an attempt to end fossil fuels and put everybody into some shithead's vision of utopia. The problem is, the only evidence of utopia that we've seen is in Portalnd, Tenderloin San Francisco, and Detroit. 

[Deluge]

On 12/15/2023 at 12:27 PM, Rebound said:

Excellent question!

Tell us what costs the most:

1. A gallon of gas
2. A gust of wind
3. A ray of sunshine
4. A burst of volcanic steam

So, yes, you must build a plant. Whether that plant is gas, coal, solar or wind, you have a large capital cost to build it, and you must maintain it. But the fuel costs of geothermal, solar and wind are zero. Further, solar and wind can be added in much smaller increments than any other form.  One panel or one windmill at a time.  That’s a far less capital intensive method that building massive new coal or gas turbines.  

Not enough power, and not consistent enough. Fossil fuels and nuclear power are the only reliable solutions for the First World. 

What you propose needs to be tested somewhere in the Third World. 

[Aristides]

35 minutes ago, Deluge said:

I can start building a dike? Why hasn't Florida and the Gulf states already been doing that? 

You think 90% of the increased heat is in the oceans, so where is the rise in the other 10%? 

 

I don’t know, have they? Storm surges from hurricanes shouldn’t be a problem then. Oh wait!

Do you think it stays in the oceans. Try putting your hand just over a boiling kettle. At least half of sea level rise is from thermal expansion of the oceans.