Why has the driving force on the right become hatred of gays and trans.

[Hodad]

1 hour ago, CrakHoBarbie said:

You cannot squeeze "being a good person" from a religious zealot that thinks your way of life is an abomination. 

Philosophically, you are absolutely correct and I fully agree with you. But, in actual application,  it's not going to be seen as a reasonable request by folks who simply don't give a fck.

That's really a different issue though. If people don't want to patronize a business because of the quality of service, that's fine. But businesses shouldn't be able to discriminate in the delivery of their service--that becomes a legal issue. If you can make a reasonable case that someone made you a shitty cake because you're gay (or whatever) there are legal and financial consequences. In the exact same way that if an employer is caught making gender or age discrimination decisions there are legal consequences. The cases can be hard to prove, but such is life.

We don't make laws to govern or regulate the quality of every personal interaction, but we do need to set a baseline, and that baseline is equal access.

 

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, CrakHoBarbie said:

And you are an insipid ignoramus with a brain the size of a walnut.

And yet strangely he makes more sense than you. When you can't outperform the walnut - that's pretty bad  

[CrakHoBarbie]

27 minutes ago, Hodad said:

That's really a different issue though. If people don't want to patronize a business because of the quality of service, that's fine. But businesses shouldn't be able to discriminate in the delivery of their service--that becomes a legal issue. If you can make a reasonable case that someone made you a shitty cake because you're gay (or whatever) there are legal and financial consequences. In the exact same way that if an employer is caught making gender or age discrimination decisions there are legal consequences. The cases can be hard to prove, but such is life.

We don't make laws to govern or regulate the quality of every personal interaction, but we do need to set a baseline, and that baseline is equal access.

 

I cannot abide by forcing someone to work for someone they do not want to work for. If a worker applies for a job and while doing so, finds out the company owner is a raging antisemite. Are you going to force the worker to take that job? Because forcing someone to work for someone they aren't comfortable working with is the same, regardless of which foot the shoe is on.

[Hodad]

49 minutes ago, CrakHoBarbie said:

I cannot abide by forcing someone to work for someone they do not want to work for. If a worker applies for a job and while doing so, finds out the company owner is a raging antisemite. Are you going to force the worker to take that job? Because forcing someone to work for someone they aren't comfortable working with is the same, regardless of which foot the shoe is on.

You've got the relationship backward again. No, the worker isn't forced to take the job, just like the customer isn't forced to buy from the bigoted baker. They need to have the option though. Neither public businesses nor employers can discriminate against protected classes.

There are conditions on operating a business. If you don't want to pay for a business license, don't open a business. If you don't want to meet safety standards and fire code, don't open a business. If you don't want to serve the whole public without discriminating, don't open a business. Nobody is forcing you to open a business, but if you want to, there are standards and rules and obligations. 

The argument you're making is the exact same, nearly word for word, that the Jim Crow southerners made. See the Heart of Atlanta case. They could not abide being forced to serve someone they considered so far beneath them. In a fit of irony, they equated the requirement for equal access to slavery. 

My point is not that you're a racist or something, but that the argument has been thoroughly tested and has failed as a matter of both logic and law. We simply can't have a country where "all men are created equal" and then say that if your skin is one color your 5-year old daughter might have to poop in the woods behind the gas station because "her kind" isn't allowed to use the restroom and the next stop is a hundred miles away. To be free and equal citizens, people have to be able to access places of public accommodation. There can be no second-class citizens. No lower caste. 

 

 

[CrakHoBarbie]

15 minutes ago, Hodad said:

You've got the relationship backward again. No, the worker isn't forced to take the job, just like the customer isn't forced to buy from the bigoted baker. They need to have the option though. Neither public businesses nor employers can discriminate against protected classes.

There are conditions on operating a business. If you don't want to pay for a business license, don't open a business. If you don't want to meet safety standards and fire code, don't open a business. If you don't want to serve the whole public without discriminating, don't open a business. Nobody is forcing you to open a business, but if you want to, there are standards and rules and obligations. 

The argument you're making is the exact same, nearly word for word, that the Jim Crow southerners made. See the Heart of Atlanta case. They could not abide being forced to serve someone they considered so far beneath them. In a fit of irony, they equated the requirement for equal access to slavery. 

My point is not that you're a racist or something, but that the argument has been thoroughly tested and has failed as a matter of both logic and law. We simply can't have a country where "all men are created equal" and then say that if your skin is one color your 5-year old daughter might have to poop in the woods behind the gas station because "her kind" isn't allowed to use the restroom and the next stop is a hundred miles away. To be free and equal citizens, people have to be able to access places of public accommodation. There can be no second-class citizens. No lower caste. 

 

 

So you are OK with forced labor as long as it's forcing the business owner to comply and not the actual workers. 

Got it.

[Hodad]

3 minutes ago, CrakHoBarbie said:

So you are OK with forced labor as long as it's forcing the business owner to comply and not the actual workers. 

Got it.

It's not forced labor. It's a condition of operating a business. If they don't want to meet that condition, they shouldn't run a business. No different than fire codes and licensure. You probably don't think it's slavery to "force" business owners to do the labor to meet fire code, right?

 

[CrakHoBarbie]

2 hours ago, Hodad said:

It's not forced labor. It's a condition of operating a business. If they don't want to meet that condition, they shouldn't run a business. No different than fire codes and licensure. You probably don't think it's slavery to "force" business owners to do the labor to meet fire code, right?

 

Well, according to the 1964 Civil rights act, it is illegal to refuse to serve someone based on a customer's national origin, sex, religion, color or race.

But....

Businesses can refuse to serve someone if doing so violates their religious beliefs.

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.axios.com/2023/06/30/supreme-court-lgbtq-wedding-website&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwjNoJzi8-eCAxXiO0QIHSBIAwYQFnoECAkQAg&usg=AOvVaw2Y-D6AGe_1Pk5bXoDzCKee

 

But, as I said... if a baker is forced to make a cake for someone they think is an abomination,  that customer is, more than likely,  going to end up with a belly full of excrement.

Edited November 29, 2023 by CrakHoBarbie

[Hodad]

2 hours ago, CrakHoBarbie said:

Well, according to the 1964 Civil rights act, it is illegal to refuse to serve someone based on a customer's national origin, sex, religion, color or race.

But....

Businesses can refuse to serve someone if doing so violates their religious beliefs.

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.axios.com/2023/06/30/supreme-court-lgbtq-wedding-website&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwjNoJzi8-eCAxXiO0QIHSBIAwYQFnoECAkQAg&usg=AOvVaw2Y-D6AGe_1Pk5bXoDzCKee

 

But, as I said... if a baker is forced to make a cake for someone they think is an abomination,  that customer is, more than likely,  going to end up with a belly full of excrement.

Sort of. That monstrosity is the result of our radical new court and was decided through the lens of a first amendment protection. 

That is to say if a business can make a case that the service rendered is sufficiently "artistic expression" they can discriminate under this ruling. Ultimately it's going to mean a lot of businesses going to court to try to rationalize that they make art. Not going to fly for most businesses.

That case was a literal sham, BTW. Almost nothing about it was factually true. If I remember right, the plaintiff made up the whole story. Literally lied her way to the supreme court. Go figure.

[CdnFox]

4 hours ago, CrakHoBarbie said:

So you are OK with forced labor as long as it's forcing the business owner to comply and not the actual workers. 

Got it.

I can't believe i'm saying this but....  that was actually a pretty good point.  one way or another ONE person in that relationship is being forced and or punished for their opinion. She's right about that.  How annoying.

Edited November 29, 2023 by CdnFox

[Rebound]

On 11/24/2023 at 3:27 PM, WestCanMan said:

Is it really time for a thread called: Why has the driving force of leftards become slander and hate mongering? 

How low is this forum going to be dragged by these trolls? 

Why don’t you answer the question:  Why is the right so obsessed with people’s sex lives?  
 

Our nation faces problems: Economic, Energy, Environmental, Crime… So why is the right wasting so much time fussing over people’s sex lives, which has nothing to do with any important problem we are facing? The reason is to distract.  

[CrakHoBarbie]

11 hours ago, CdnFox said:

 How annoying.

This warms my heart ❤️ 

[WestCanMan]

3 hours ago, Rebound said:

Why don’t you answer the question:  Why is the right so obsessed with people’s sex lives?  

Because it's a stupid question? Your first hint should have been the fact that it came out of your mouth. 

FYI conservatives aren't concerned about what consenting adults do in their bedrooms at all: we're concerned with adults who are forcing their own sexual beliefs on other people's children, and adults who dress up in sexual costumes to hang out with other people's kids. 

I don't know how many gay and trans people would want their kids to go to dominatrix story hour, but conservatives are against that too. As well as prostitute story hour and stripper story hour. For some reason, we all feel like sexualizing other people's little children is wrong. 

Go ahead and call us extremists if you want, I really don't give a shit what you think about anything. 

Edited November 29, 2023 by WestCanMan

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, Rebound said:

Why don’t you answer the question:  Why is the right so obsessed with people’s sex lives?  
 

 

Because those people with those sex lives INSIST that we should be.

If they just went about their business we wouldn't' care. Conservatives absolutely do not give a damn what consenting adults do in the privacy of their bedrooms and in canada a large percent of conservatives support gay rights and even gay marriage.  Have since about 2005. That's why when harper got into power the promised 'vote on gay marriage' became 'should we bother having that vote' and got shot down day one and never brought up again   He got told at the convention.

BUT - now, our children HAVE to celebrate being gay and trans or face suspension in schools.  We have to have flags and such and you will be questioned on your support if you don't wear the appropriate paraphenalia.  What the HELL is that?  And if we dont' send our children to 'trans story time' then we're terrible people and face censure.  AND if we dare... DAAAARREEE...  suggest we should know what's happening with our kids in school then we're evil bigots who hate all trans people and should be banished by law.  And if we suggest actual porn books showing sex acts are inappropriate for elementary school libraries,  then we're nazi book banners.

So the REAL question is -  why the hell is the left DEMANDING we be obsessed with people's sex lives.

[robosmith]

On 11/25/2023 at 5:12 PM, Perspektiv said:

Cite?

Is your google broken? It's not like it's an obscure quote:

 

On 11/25/2023 at 5:12 PM, Perspektiv said:

He was quite specific:

"Picking the right wing" does NOT imply the "entire right wing" has a particular characteristic.

No one "picks the entire right wing," they pick LEADERS at the election. 

On 11/25/2023 at 5:12 PM, Perspektiv said:

Ditto. 

I didn't complain like you did. I suggested instead of mocking, you should DO BETTER.

On 11/25/2023 at 5:12 PM, Perspektiv said:

Thats like bragging about still being in the ghetto makes you real.

Those in the ghetto ARE REAL.

Edited November 29, 2023 by robosmith

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, robosmith said:

Is your google broken? It's not like it's an obscure quote:

 

Oh i think everyone knows she said it

Quote

"Picking the right wing" does NOT imply the "entire right wing" has a particular characteristic.

She was very clear that's what she meant.

Quote

No one "picks the entire right wing," they pick LEADERS at the election. 

Not Hillary  

 

[robosmith]

On 11/26/2023 at 7:39 AM, Nationalist said:

They live on hatred my good man. Have done for about 7 years now. These Tweenkies will say and do anything to oppose Orangemanbad. It's like a religion to them. A cult of pure hatred.

^Only because you're either IGNORANT or IN DENIAL about the REASONS Trump is REALLY BAD.

That is YOUR cognitive dissonance which prevents you from seeing the truth about Trump.

Those of us in the US who have been paying attention knew the FACTS long before you knew about Trump.

Know who "John Barron" was? He was a figment of Trump's imagination way back then. LMAO

[robosmith]

On 11/27/2023 at 8:13 PM, WestCanMan said:

Holy insipid vitriol Batman, you're spazzing so hard that you can't even speak properly. 

^Reminds me of YOUR childish posts.

[robosmith]

On 11/28/2023 at 8:45 AM, reason10 said:

You're such a whiny little bittch when you lose an argument. The HATE you spew here on a daily basis would make Hitler look like the PEACE CORPS.

Crawl back under your rock, goose stepper.

 

We can always tell when you LOST the debate by when your response includes "you lose an argument."

You ARE NOT the judge of your opponent's win/loss. That would be the rest of us on lookers.

[robosmith]

4 hours ago, Rebound said:

Why don’t you answer the question:  Why is the right so obsessed with people’s sex lives?  
 

Our nation faces problems: Economic, Energy, Environmental, Crime… So why is the right wasting so much time fussing over people’s sex lives, which has nothing to do with any important problem we are facing? The reason is to distract.  

Distraction and appeal to emotion to get their voter base riled up and keep/gain power.

[robosmith]

49 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Because it's a stupid question? Your first hint should have been the fact that it came out of your mouth. 

FYI conservatives aren't concerned about what consenting adults do in their bedrooms at all: we're concerned with adults who are forcing their own sexual beliefs on other people's children, and adults who dress up in sexual costumes to hang out with other people's kids. 

I don't know how many gay and trans people would want their kids to go to dominatrix story hour, but conservatives are against that too. As well as prostitute story hour and stripper story hour. For some reason, we all feel like sexualizing other people's little children is wrong. 

Go ahead and call us extremists if you want, I really don't give a shit what you think about anything. 

NO ONE FORCES parents to bring their kids "to dominatrix story hour." Duh

[Deluge]

On 11/26/2023 at 11:03 AM, CrakHoBarbie said:

Only 24% of Americans are stupid enough to trust Donald.

100% of the Left trusts Biden, so you have zero room to speak.

[Nationalist]

33 minutes ago, robosmith said:

^Only because you're either IGNORANT or IN DENIAL about the REASONS Trump is REALLY BAD.

That is YOUR cognitive dissonance which prevents you from seeing the truth about Trump.

Those of us in the US who have been paying attention knew the FACTS long before you knew about Trump.

Know who "John Barron" was? He was a figment of Trump's imagination way back then. LMAO

Lol...such panic.

[reason10]

42 minutes ago, robosmith said:

We can always tell when you LOST the debate by when your response includes "you lose an argument."

You ARE NOT the judge of your opponent's win/loss. That would be the rest of us on lookers.

The only "rest of you" consists of equally ignorant kindergarten dropouts. You don't represent anyone with an education.

You lose arguments because you don't have facts and you're too stupid and lazy to look for facts.

[reason10]

23 hours ago, CrakHoBarbie said:

And you are an insipid ignoramus with a brain the size of a walnut.

And your welfare checks are paid for by my taxes, you more on.

I have more brains than you and all the other left wing Hitler youth here combined. That ain't saying much because you all are a bunch of uneducated cretins.

 

[CrakHoBarbie]

36 minutes ago, Deluge said:

100% of the Left trusts Biden, so you have zero room to speak.

Another stupid statement you cannot support with a citation.

Have you always been such a weak and inconsequential person?