Israel Invites Media to Inspect Hamas' Terror Equipment

[Guest]

14 hours ago, Hodad said:

That simply is not the same as a protest in support of Hamas.

What if some of the loudest and most prominent voices, are echoing chants that translate to the erasure of Israel and the Jewish state that we currently know?

What if there have been a lot of antisemitic crimes (from assaults, to vandalism), and very few supporting Palestinians decrying it?

x

Tons of people on one side supporting, and even calling for the genocide of Jewish people. I don't see anyone decrying this, coming from that side. Why is this?

Also, why has there been very little outrage, from other middle eastern countries, where thousands of innocents were slaughtered by terrorists for no reason? Why is it outrageous only when Jewish people do it, in self-defense?

[Hodad]

56 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

What if some of the loudest and most prominent voices, are echoing chants that translate to the erasure of Israel and the Jewish state that we currently know?

What if there have been a lot of antisemitic crimes (from assaults, to vandalism), and very few supporting Palestinians decrying it?

x

Tons of people on one side supporting, and even calling for the genocide of Jewish people. I don't see anyone decrying this, coming from that side. Why is this?

Also, why has there been very little outrage, from other middle eastern countries, where thousands of innocents were slaughtered by terrorists for no reason? Why is it outrageous only when Jewish people do it, in self-defense?

^^ This is wildly disingenuous and I think you know it. Hence why you did not link anything. I've never heard of either of these people, so I had to look them up. 

Turns out neither is of them are Americans, let alone Democrats. The first is a Palestinian journalist who worked for the BBC, WHO POSTED THAT IN 2014 and was promptly fired following an outcry after the old tweet was discovered.

The other is a Pakistani actress who is a reality TV star in India.

Really. These are our "most prominent voices"? People in other countries that hardly anyone here has even heard of? Okay, consider those statements thoroughly condemned. Now knock it off.

There's a thread on this forum right now started by a poster sympathetic to the Palestinian people (not Hamas) condemning Elon Musk for his anti-semitic posts. If you actually care, you're welcome to join in. Let's decry anti-semitism together. (Now that's a prominent voice.)

Or you might mention the actual farking Nazis showing up at Trump rallies. Or Trump cozying up to white nationalists--stand back and stand by, boys. Or inviting well known anti-semites to dinner.

How do you honestly think American Nazis vote? They used to not be welcome anywhere, but Trump extended the tent so far to the right that they are part of the base now. 

This tangent you're on is completely absurd. One does not have to be pro-Hamas or anti-semitic to call for Israel to stop blowing up families, to stop dropping bombs on children. One simply has to be human. 

I fully understand that it's very difficult to prosecute a war against terrorists that mingle among and hide behind civilians. That's a despicable tactic. I understand some collateral damage is inevitable. But if they use similarly indiscriminate tactics--or insufficiently discriminate they any better today than the terrorists? Instead we have a very uncivilized conflict, with both sides committing atrocities. 

I recognize that things suck for the Palestinians. They have some legit beef. But I have always supported Israel. I married into a Jewish family--some are even Israeli--but my support isn't unconditional. They are going too far. They are surrendering the high road and allowing Hamas to drag them down to that level. The slaughter of Innocents will not make them safer, it will not make them better loved., and it will not bring them peace. For every dead child there are fathers, brothers, sisters cousins and more who will forever believe that Israel is exactly as evil as Hamas claims them to be. Israeli bombs are not seeds of peace. They are sowing seeds of further radicalization. The seeds of escalation and more bloodshed and more death. 

 

[Rebound]

16 hours ago, robosmith said:

The thing you'll never understand is that Israel CREATED HAMAS by their subjugation of Palestinians.

And every Palestinian orphan Israel creates, is another soldier for Hamas to exploit.

I disagree. The Palestinians had to move 35 or 40 miles.  Jews were forced to flee all of Europe and every Muslim nation. And not only Jews. Millions had their nations boundaries moved after WW II.  Germany was cut in half. Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, Poland, and most of Africa went through the same. India and Pakistan. And let’s not forget that everyone in the U.S. and Canada lives on stolen Indian land, GUILT FREE. 
 

But it is only the Jews who are ever spoken of as the evildoers in all of this. Only the Jews. Over and over and over, only the Jews. You refuse to admit it. 
 

Israel is a minuscule nation of seven million Jews and two million Palestinians. The Palestinian population inside Israel is greater than the number of Jews kicked out of Arab nations. 
 

Palestinians chose terrorism.  A Palestinian chose to murder Robert Kennedy. Jews didn’t make him do it. Palestinians chose to hijack airliners. Jews didn’t make them do it. Palestinians chose to murder athletes at the Munich Olympics. Jews didn’t make them do it. 
 

Seventy five years later, Palestinians still live in refugee camps.  These are the grandchildren and great-grandchildren of people who moved into the West Bank and Gaza. Israel didn’t make them live in refugee camps; they chose to. Israeli refugees built an entire nation. They don’t live in refugee camps seventy five years later.  

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Hodad said:

Hence why you did not link anything. I've never heard of either of these people, so I had to look them up.

I was showing a drop, in a large voice for those calling for the destruction of Israel in some of these protests. Some even sympathizing with Hitler. This isn't a rare opinion.

I presented two, as an example.

1 hour ago, Hodad said:

Turns out neither is of them are Americans, let alone Democrats.

Its not about where they are from, but the sobering message they and many others, are delivering. Political affiliations are irrelevant.

"Oh, at least they aren't Democrat, is the most insane manner to look at such an issue."

Nobody in the history of humanity has stated: "thank God it wasn't a woman" after a mass shooting. Like it being a male somehow made it comforting. What a unique way to look at the world o_O

Its also the blatant rise of crime and sentiment towards the Jewish community which is blatantly made obvious when looking at statistics.

1 hour ago, Hodad said:

Okay, consider those statements thoroughly condemned.

My statement is why there hasn't been an outcry condemning those with such voices.

1 hour ago, Hodad said:

Let's decry anti-semitism together.

Online? Why aren't any public figures strongly condemning it? Those in support of Palestinians in a leadership position?

Silence from that level is deafening.

1 hour ago, Hodad said:

One simply has to be human. 

What about the attacks from Hamas? You know, what started the war.

Why are so many petrified to publicly denounce Hamas' behavior? Or is it not wanting to? Why is only one side getting thoroughly denounced? Hamas is defending itself? Then what is what Israel doing? Genocide?

They can kill with impunity, kidnap then negotiate lopsided deals, that just perpetuate the status quo. 

I like peace, but also respect a country's right to defend itself. You can't just denounce one. War is bloody.

What should Israel get to ensure its safety?  Nothing? Forgive?

If Hamas genuinely wanted this to stop, they would drop their weapons, and would release the hostages and get to the negotiating table.

You talk about being human, but won't denounce a group that has blatantly shown a total disregard for human life. 

Being human is putting hostilities aside, and negotiating in good faith.

Sorry, but freeing 50 kidnapped Israel citizens for approximately 150 Hamas prisoners is not in good faith.

2 hours ago, Hodad said:

They are sowing seeds of further radicalization. 

We are in full agreement here. Israel needs to revise its border security and look inward at how they could have allowed such a large attack to make it past its borders.

The more you bomb them, regardless if you can prove the underground bunkers and everything you have been stating, seeing kids being carted off lifeless by the thousands, only plays into the hands of Hamas.

To exterminate Hamas, would be a human cost I don't even think the US would want to stand idly and stomach. 

Israel knows their time is limited, before the international pressure reaches a fever pitch.

[Nationalist]

19 hours ago, Hodad said:

You're insane. There was worldwide outrage over what happened to the Israelis in October. They had near-universal support.

That empathy, sympathy and support does get eroded quickly as the retaliation blows up civilians day after day. What we're actually observing is an example of recency bias. We can all look at what Hamas did in October and say that was wrong. But what the Israelis are currently doing is active and ongoing--they are killing civilians day after day--so of course the emotional support shifts very quickly to STOP THE KILLING. So of course we see protests supporting a cease fire. That simply is not the same as a protest in support of Hamas. It's stupid and/or deeply dishonest to say that it does.

As for the rest of your nonsense and my "allegiance," just go fark yourself with something sharp.

AND...

13 hours ago, robosmith said:

You're the one spouting evidence free OPINIONS ^here. You got BUPKIS to refute the EVIDENCE CITED. Duh

Oh no you don't. You have spent years calling anyone who wanted peace in Ukraine, a "Putin Puppet" and more.

NOW you hypocritical dweebs think you can openly support terrorists and figure nobody will notice?

You are nothing more than common hypocrites. Representatives of the Libbie death-cult. Intellectual refuse.

[robosmith]

4 hours ago, Nationalist said:

AND...

Oh no you don't. You have spent years calling anyone who wanted peace in Ukraine, a "Putin Puppet" and more.

Nope. I have spent years NOTING that ONLY PUTIN can deliver "peace in Ukraine."

Ukrainians can ONLY SURRENDER to PUTIN'S AGGRESSION. Duh

4 hours ago, Nationalist said:

NOW you hypocritical dweebs think you can openly support terrorists and figure nobody will notice?

Israel pushed Palestinians out of their homes with TERRORISM in order to cement the Jewish majority in Israel and make room for ZIONISTS. They are STILL doing that today in the West Bank.

4 hours ago, Nationalist said:

You are nothing more than common hypocrites. Representatives of the Libbie death-cult. Intellectual refuse.

^This would be YOU. But ignoramus rather than hypocrite.

[Hodad]

5 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

I was showing a drop, in a large voice for those calling for the destruction of Israel in some of these protests. Some even sympathizing with Hitler. This isn't a rare opinion.

I presented two, as an example.

Its not about where they are from, but the sobering message they and many others, are delivering. Political affiliations are irrelevant.

"Oh, at least they aren't Democrat, is the most insane manner to look at such an issue."

Nobody in the history of humanity has stated: "thank God it wasn't a woman" after a mass shooting. Like it being a male somehow made it comforting. What a unique way to look at the world o_O

Its also the blatant rise of crime and sentiment towards the Jewish community which is blatantly made obvious when looking at statistics.

My statement is why there hasn't been an outcry condemning those with such voices.

Online? Why aren't any public figures strongly condemning it? Those in support of Palestinians in a leadership position?

Silence from that level is deafening.

What about the attacks from Hamas? You know, what started the war.

Why are so many petrified to publicly denounce Hamas' behavior? Or is it not wanting to? Why is only one side getting thoroughly denounced? Hamas is defending itself? Then what is what Israel doing? Genocide?

They can kill with impunity, kidnap then negotiate lopsided deals, that just perpetuate the status quo. 

I like peace, but also respect a country's right to defend itself. You can't just denounce one. War is bloody.

What should Israel get to ensure its safety?  Nothing? Forgive?

If Hamas genuinely wanted this to stop, they would drop their weapons, and would release the hostages and get to the negotiating table.

You talk about being human, but won't denounce a group that has blatantly shown a total disregard for human life. 

Being human is putting hostilities aside, and negotiating in good faith.

Sorry, but freeing 50 kidnapped Israel citizens for approximately 150 Hamas prisoners is not in good faith.

We are in full agreement here. Israel needs to revise its border security and look inward at how they could have allowed such a large attack to make it past its borders.

The more you bomb them, regardless if you can prove the underground bunkers and everything you have been stating, seeing kids being carted off lifeless by the thousands, only plays into the hands of Hamas.

To exterminate Hamas, would be a human cost I don't even think the US would want to stand idly and stomach. 

Israel knows their time is limited, before the international pressure reaches a fever pitch.

The accusations in this thread are specifically that American liberals are anti-semitic supporters of Hamas. You come in with examples of "our most prominent voices" that are:

A. Not American liberals

B. Not prominent voices -- I suspect most people here have never heard of them at all

C. They were broadly condemned, even fired

So I have to wonder what your point is. What is it? It's it that some people in the world are anti-semitic? Yeah, of course they are. Just like some are islamaphobic, Christophobic and whatever else. That goes without saying.

And it is utterly baffling that you are acting like people didn't condemn Hamas. That's lunacy. Condemnation of Hamas and vivid descriptions of the evil atrocities was front page of every media outlet in the Western world for days and days. Wall -to-wall coverage of the murder and terror wrought upon civilians--just people trying to live their lives. 

Israel had everyone's sympathy and support. Then, as they ramped up their response we saw Israel raining down death and terror upon different civilians who were also just trying to live their lives. For a while support remained strong--collateral damage is part of war. Accidents happen. But as that kept happening and kept happening and kept happening it starts to look like they aren't accidents, or that the retaliation was being prosecuted with a level of carelessness tantamount to intentionality. Many of the same people who were appalled at the actions of Hamas against civilians grew increasingly appalled at Israel for the ongoing operation and the suffering of civilians.

Suddenly there are protests not in support of Hamas (that is a perverse accusation) but in support of a cease fire. The message is that what Israel is doing isn't conscionable or effective. This tactic isn't advertising. Find another way forward. 

Edited November 23, 2023 by Hodad

[Hodad]

5 hours ago, Nationalist said:

AND...

Oh no you don't. You have spent years calling anyone who wanted peace in Ukraine, a "Putin Puppet" and more.

NOW you hypocritical dweebs think you can openly support terrorists and figure nobody will notice?

You are nothing more than common hypocrites. Representatives of the Libbie death-cult. Intellectual refuse.

Wildly different scenarios and a false equivalency so absurd it's hard to imagine you're serious. 

[Nationalist]

2 minutes ago, Hodad said:

Wildly different scenarios and a false equivalency so absurd it's hard to imagine you're serious. 

Says the hypocrite...

[Guest]

57 minutes ago, Hodad said:

The accusations in this thread are specifically that American liberals are anti-semitic

I never made such comments. I pointed to a growing trend in that direction. It would be silly to point to a political ideology. This is tribal thinking at best, to see the world this way.

Think about it. You disagree with me, and your only concern is if am conservative or liberal? Like if I said something you hated, this would change anything. 

"He says he hates black people, but at least he's liberal" "as a conservative, it's racist". It makes no sense. 

Thats not going to stop anyone who wants to do so.

Voting for Biden or Trump won't make a difference. Its the hate being spewed that would.

Its shrinking your world view. Deliberately, no less.

1 hour ago, Hodad said:

A. Not American liberals

I wasn't eluding to liberals, but rather a growing sentiment that is palpable. I couldn't care less of the political alignment. Shouldn't the hate be of concern? 

You're literally seeing a person get hit by a car, and wondering if it's a Volvo or not. These are some of the safest vehicles on the road, regarding technology.

The fact someone was hit, is second. 

1 hour ago, Hodad said:

Not prominent voices

Do I truly have to spell things out for you? I was eluding to the message. Not the people. The people showcased an example of the disturbing message that was quite prominent, in varying levels of disturbing.

1 hour ago, Hodad said:

And it is utterly baffling that you are acting like people didn't condemn Hamas.

Accusing Israel of genocide and condemning Hamas is akin of forgiving a drunk driver because he wasn't speeding excessively. The other one however was, so is sickening. 

 

[Hodad]

2 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

I never made such comments. I pointed to a growing trend in that direction. It would be silly to point to a political ideology. This is tribal thinking at best, to see the world this way.

Think about it. You disagree with me, and your only concern is if am conservative or liberal? Like if I said something you hated, this would change anything. 

"He says he hates black people, but at least he's liberal" "as a conservative, it's racist". It makes no sense. 

Thats not going to stop anyone who wants to do so.

Voting for Biden or Trump won't make a difference. Its the hate being spewed that would.

Its shrinking your world view. Deliberately, no less.

I wasn't eluding to liberals, but rather a growing sentiment that is palpable. I couldn't care less of the political alignment. Shouldn't the hate be of concern? 

You're literally seeing a person get hit by a car, and wondering if it's a Volvo or not. These are some of the safest vehicles on the road, regarding technology.

The fact someone was hit, is second. 

Do I truly have to spell things out for you? I was eluding to the message. Not the people. The people showcased an example of the disturbing message that was quite prominent, in varying levels of disturbing.

Accusing Israel of genocide and condemning Hamas is akin of forgiving a drunk driver because he wasn't speeding excessively. The other one however was, so is sickening. 

 

You show up in a thread chock full of context and reply to a post with very specific context and expect people to understand that you want to talk about something completely different? Good luck with that.

You claim prominent voices saying terrible things and use as examples people we've never heard of, and you expect us to understand that you just chose obscure people for some reason? Were there no prominent examples as your claimed? Wouldn't those have been better examples?

What we have is a big communication problem.

If you want to talk about a perceived global increase in anti-semitism, great, make that case, but people accusing Israel of genocide is not anti-semitic. It's a (so far) exaggeration, but it's a criticism of the policy of the nation of Israel, not an attack on semitic people. 

Hamas is not powerful. Regardless of their feelings, they did not attempt--nor could they attempt-- to destroy Israel. They can only antagonize and provoke. The power asymmetry is vast. Of course no one sane thinks Hamas is committing genocide. They just aren't capable.

Israel, on the other hand could entirely eliminate the Palestinians without breaking a sweat. They must exercise restraint, and must do so visibly. The world is now telling them it's too much, too casual and too careless. Thousands of dead children, and more bodies piling up every day, no longer looks like justice. It looks like a long, slow path toward extinction. If they continue so wantonly, they will lose our support. They will look to the rest of the world like the villains Hamas accuses them of being.

 

Edited November 23, 2023 by Hodad

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Hodad said:

but people accusing Israel of genocide is not anti-semitic

The double standard, is.

4 hours ago, Hodad said:

Hamas is not powerful. Regardless of their feelings, they did not attempt--nor could they attempt-- to destroy Israel.

Irrelevant. They can still attack and cause mass casualties.

Thats the whole point. It can't continue to happen, if peace (or them wanting to stop getting bombed) is the true intent. It clearly isn't.

10 hours ago, Hodad said:

Israel, on the other hand could entirely eliminate the Palestinians without breaking a sweat.

Yet, they haven't. 

10 hours ago, Hodad said:

The world is now telling them it's too much

They have a time limit, but they can't end this war like the others, with an intact Hamas. Hamas only respects consequences. Unfortunately, they hide amongst one of the globe's most densely populated regions.

A heavy death toll is literally impossible to avoid, regardless of how surgically accurate that you are.

10 hours ago, Hodad said:

Thousands of dead children, and more bodies piling up every day, no longer looks like justice. 

Its not about justice. Its about disabling the threat as much as possible, or expect the same type of attacks as soon as Hamas can regroup.

Its about fortifying their borders. Being aware this threat will never go away in full. One must better protect oneself from it.

10 hours ago, Hodad said:

they will lose our support. 

Speak for yourself. I support their right to self defense.

They bombed a hospital, but clearly proved that Hamas had tunnels running into it. Leeching electricity from it, communication lines, etc.

Unfathomable to do so in war, but fully legal, as long as it can clearly be demonstrated that the place was housing Hamas terrorists, weapons, and or hostages. They were able to prove all three.

They are literally straddling the legal line as tightly as possible. 

Don't like seeing dead babies, put pressure on Hamas to drop the weapons. 

Otherwise, I see it as an unfortunate and unintended byproduct of war. One Israel is entitled to fight.

[Deluge]

21 hours ago, Hodad said:

The accusations in this thread are specifically that American liberals are anti-semitic supporters of Hamas. You come in with examples of "our most prominent voices" that are:

A. Not American liberals

B. Not prominent voices -- I suspect most people here have never heard of them at all

C. They were broadly condemned, even fired

So I have to wonder what your point is. What is it? It's it that some people in the world are anti-semitic? Yeah, of course they are. Just like some are islamaphobic, Christophobic and whatever else. That goes without saying.

And it is utterly baffling that you are acting like people didn't condemn Hamas. That's lunacy. Condemnation of Hamas and vivid descriptions of the evil atrocities was front page of every media outlet in the Western world for days and days. Wall -to-wall coverage of the murder and terror wrought upon civilians--just people trying to live their lives. 

Israel had everyone's sympathy and support. Then, as they ramped up their response we saw Israel raining down death and terror upon different civilians who were also just trying to live their lives. For a while support remained strong--collateral damage is part of war. Accidents happen. But as that kept happening and kept happening and kept happening it starts to look like they aren't accidents, or that the retaliation was being prosecuted with a level of carelessness tantamount to intentionality. Many of the same people who were appalled at the actions of Hamas against civilians grew increasingly appalled at Israel for the ongoing operation and the suffering of civilians.

Suddenly there are protests not in support of Hamas (that is a perverse accusation) but in support of a cease fire. The message is that what Israel is doing isn't conscionable or effective. This tactic isn't advertising. Find another way forward. 

"Israel had everyone's sympathy and support. Then, as they ramped up their response we saw Israel raining down death and terror upon different civilians who were also just trying to live their lives. For a while support remained strong--collateral damage is part of war. Accidents happen. But as that kept happening and kept happening and kept happening it starts to look like they aren't accidents, or that the retaliation was being prosecuted with a level of carelessness tantamount to intentionality. Many of the same people who were appalled at the actions of Hamas against civilians grew increasingly appalled at Israel for the ongoing operation and the suffering of civilians."

Now, point out where you shared the same kind of passion as above right after Hamas slaughtered the Israelis last month. 

[WestCanMan]

On 11/22/2023 at 6:54 AM, Hodad said:

I think you're absolutely full of it. Links to anyone in the DNC (or US liberal in general) supporting Hamas?

As mentioned many times before, there is a huge difference between sympathizing with the terrible plight of the Palestinian people and support for Hamas.

That you would conflate the two is just a cynical exploitation of human suffering for cheap political taking points. Pretty gross. Do better.

Do you honestly need links to acknowledge that Rashida Tlaib is a Hamas supporter?

At 3:55 you can see her say "It is not ok to bomb a hospital!" Then she tried to et everyone to cry with her.

Problem is, that was 12 hrs after it was known that the hospital wasn't even hit. It was also known that it wasn't an Israeli rocket that hit the parking lot behind the hospital. 

Israel's story was that a Palestinian rocket misfired, Al Jazeera's story was that an Iron Dome missile intercepted a Hamas rocket, sending it off course.

Nobody on earth was saying that the Israelis targeted and blew up a hospital at that point, aside from Rashida Tlaib.

She was parroting Hamas propaganda long after it was completely debunked.

How is that not "supporting Hamas"?

In case you've forgotten: As soon as that incident occurred, Hamas went public saying that the Israelis attacked a hospital, killing 500 people. Then when they found out it was a Palestinian rocket that was knocked off course by an Israeli rocket it went down to 30 people killed. AFAIK, the death toll from that rocket went down to zero when they finally determined that it was just a misfire. 

She held a rally and told despicable lies in support of HAMAS.

[CdnFox]

9 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Don't like seeing dead babies, put pressure on Hamas to drop the weapons

this is my big problem. All these people who are supposedly all torn up over the deaths and such never mention hamas putting down it's weapons. it's always the jews - where's the cries for the hamas terrorists who started the war to turn themselves in? Or to even stop firing rockets at israel and turn over the hostages?

their complaints ring hollow as long as they're cheering on hamas while crying about the israelis

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

this is my big problem. All these people who are supposedly all torn up over the deaths and such never mention hamas putting down it's weapons. it's always the jews - where's the cries for the hamas terrorists who started the war to turn themselves in? Or to even stop firing rockets at israel and turn over the hostages?

their complaints ring hollow as long as they're cheering on hamas while crying about the israelis

This is where the double standard comes to light.

If ISIS slaughters 20, 000 civilians, literally no protests. No outrage. No moral posturing.

They start bombing oil reserves, and the US responds, to "help protect these poor people". 

You name the middle eastern country where terrorist groups are slaughtering innocent civilians.

Crickets.

Like its accepted that these people are like this. 

Israel gets 5 000 missiles lobbed over its airspace. Again. 5 000. 

Not enough. They get their borders breached and women get raped, kids get incinerated alive. 

Crickets. In fact, many celebrated.

Israel responds?

"Dude, WTF. This is genocide!"

Don't get it twisted. Israel have been dicks to these people.

Took some land arbitrarily. They were better at implementing laws and legalese. Better weapons. Better economy. 

But it doesn't justify what Hamas is doing. 

Imagine the aboriginal community doing this in Canada.

How far do you honestly think our government would allow them to get?

I get it. Both sides.

I just don't understand the double standard.

Mutilating any innocent civilian should be heavily condemned. 

[WestCanMan]

On 11/23/2023 at 12:47 AM, Perspektiv said:

What if some of the loudest and most prominent voices, are echoing chants that translate to the erasure of Israel and the Jewish state that we currently know?

What if there have been a lot of antisemitic crimes (from assaults, to vandalism), and very few supporting Palestinians decrying it?

x

Tons of people on one side supporting, and even calling for the genocide of Jewish people. I don't see anyone decrying this, coming from that side. Why is this?

It's religious bigotry.

There's this myth that "back in the day, before Britain got involved, everyone sang Kumbaya together and life was grand in the ME", but life was only grand for muslims. For everyone else it sucked. There was codified religious bigotry for all 600 years of the Ottoman empire, so Muslims were first-class citizens and could hold any position in the land, everyone else was 2nd-4th class, paid an extra tax, and weren't allowed to advance to higher offices or hold positions where muslims worked below them. 

Then there were the occasional genocides, pogroms, public executions, riots targeting Jews, etc that we know about because they were significant enough to be recorded as historical events.

Plus there were the day-to-day instances of violence between citizens which would always favour the muslims. Things like "Oh, your kid got beat up by 3 other kids. That's too bad. Tell him to walk home on a different street next time", or the police saying "She only got raped because she wasn't wearing a hijab, it's her own fault."

The muslims cannot live with a Jewish state in the Holy Land. It keeps them up at night. That's all there is to it.

They don't give a shit about the 108 people who were killed at Deir Yassin, they only care that 108 muslims were killed at Deir Yassin. If there were 3 million Hindus murdered there, or right in downtown Tehran, Tel Aviv or Riyadh, the Iranians and Palestinians wouldn't give a crap. Well, they wouldn't care if those people were murdered by muslims, but if the Jews killed them, that would be a completely different story. 

 

In every instance where they talk about this story, they have a BS start date, like for example eyeball's theory that "DEIR YASSIN STARTED IT ALL!", or it was the day after the Jews successfully defended their territory from a bunch of muslim countries intent on wiping them out, and annexed a bit of Palestine land. 

The muslims never started anything there. Nothing. At least according to them. The Palestinians can sit there plotting, building bombs, etc, and that's no cause at all for the Israelis to do the occasional raid - according to Iran, etc. 

 

What you're seeing is islamic religious bigotry out in the open, plus some naive SJW wannabes who got sucked into The Greatest Smollett-Style Victim Story Ever Told. 

[Hodad]

10 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Do you honestly need links to acknowledge that Rashida Tlaib is a Hamas supporter?

At 3:55 you can see her say "It is not ok to bomb a hospital!" Then she tried to et everyone to cry with her.

Problem is, that was 12 hrs after it was known that the hospital wasn't even hit. It was also known that it wasn't an Israeli rocket that hit the parking lot behind the hospital. 

Israel's story was that a Palestinian rocket misfired, Al Jazeera's story was that an Iron Dome missile intercepted a Hamas rocket, sending it off course.

Nobody on earth was saying that the Israelis targeted and blew up a hospital at that point, aside from Rashida Tlaib.

She was parroting Hamas propaganda long after it was completely debunked.

How is that not "supporting Hamas"?

In case you've forgotten: As soon as that incident occurred, Hamas went public saying that the Israelis attacked a hospital, killing 500 people. Then when they found out it was a Palestinian rocket that was knocked off course by an Israeli rocket it went down to 30 people killed. AFAIK, the death toll from that rocket went down to zero when they finally determined that it was just a misfire. 

She held a rally and told despicable lies in support of HAMAS.

A. Supporting a cease fire is NOT supporting Hamas. It simply isn't. That is one of the dumbest, shallowest arguments the conservative infobubble has produced in a long time.

B. Are you lying or wildly misinformed about the revised death toll for the hospital explosion? It wasn't revised TO thirty, it was revised BY thirty. Which is reasonable and normal, and a pretty good indicator that the numbers are in good faith. Go look up that factoid. Whether you are man enough to admit you've spamming misinformation will reveal the answer to the first question.

C. Tlaib is Palestinian American. She has very vocally called for peace and peaceful coexistence many times, but I don't suppose you can point to her ever supporting terrorism, can you? Just be real for a moment. Her entire life is defined by her parent's escape from what is, at a minimum, an oppressive existence, if not outright apartheid. She has family there still. Her perspective on the situation is never going to be the same as yours. She will never be an Israel cheerleader. But we don't need Israelis and Palestinians to be each other's biggest fans. We just need two peoples willing to peacefully coexist.

Oh, and your timeline is bogus. "It was known 12 hours before..." The hospital explosion was on October 17. Tlaib spoke on the 18th. The "high confidence" US intelligence assessment wasn't issued until the 24th. Somebody may have proposed the misfired rocket theory on the 18th but it certainly wasn't "known." Hell, the AP revisited their assessment two days ago and ruled out the video that was the original basis for that theory--though ultimately decided that other evidence was still compelling.

You want to make Tlaib out to be a liar, but you have to be lie to do it? That's called irony. Or around here, par.

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Hodad said:

A. Supporting a cease fire is NOT supporting Hamas. It simply isn't.

Of course it is.  Hamas could end this tomorrow. stretching this out just supports hamas.

They will use a cease fire to reorganize their forces and prepare to resist.  The food and supplies will mostly go to them. And they'll still be using the people as human shields.

Hamas is starting to buckle, right now they can't move their forces around safely and their supplies are being destroyed. The cease  fire is what Hamas wants and will benefit from, and that will just mean more dead civilians. 

[Nationalist]

On 11/22/2023 at 1:07 PM, robosmith said:

The thing you'll never understand is that Israel CREATED HAMAS by their subjugation of Palestinians.

And every Palestinian orphan Israel creates, is another soldier for Hamas to exploit.

Tell me...by this reasoning, the Ukraine created the conflict in the eastern provinces. Do you also understand that?

[Rebound]

On 11/22/2023 at 12:57 PM, Hodad said:

You're insane. There was worldwide outrage over what happened to the Israelis in October. They had near-universal support.

That empathy, sympathy and support does get eroded quickly as the retaliation blows up civilians day after day. What we're actually observing is an example of recency bias. We can all look at what Hamas did in October and say that was wrong. But what the Israelis are currently doing is active and ongoing--they are killing civilians day after day--so of course the emotional support shifts very quickly to STOP THE KILLING. So of course we see protests supporting a cease fire. That simply is not the same as a protest in support of Hamas. It's stupid and/or deeply dishonest to say that it does.

As for the rest of your nonsense and my "allegiance," just go fark yourself with something sharp.

Palestinian civilians are dying in Gaza because Hamas refuses to evacuate their own civilians from a combat zone. Israel gave warnings over and over. 
 

Hamas put their command center underneath a hospital. A hospital. Try, try to let that sink in.  Those mother-fers deliberately put a military command center underneath a civilian hospital… so that people could wring their hands about the Israelis destroying the hospital. It was deliberate! How else do you get the enemy? 

Edited November 25, 2023 by Rebound

[robosmith]

6 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Tell me...by this reasoning, the Ukraine created the conflict in the eastern provinces. Do you also understand that?

No. Putin clearly had a huge part in it; esp sending in anonymous Russian troops known as "green men."

The part Ukraine played was resisting the invasion of Russian troops and trying to quash a rebellion incited by Putin.

Do you understand why Ukrainians rebelled against Yanukovych at Maidan and voted him OUT? 

Do you know how many protesters were killed at Maidan by the Berkut at Yanukovych's orders?

[Hodad]

5 hours ago, Rebound said:

Palestinian civilians are dying in Gaza because Hamas refuses to evacuate their own civilians from a combat zone. Israel gave warnings over and over. 
 

Hamas put their command center underneath a hospital. A hospital. Try, try to let that sink in.  Those mother-fers deliberately put a military command center underneath a civilian hospital… so that people could wring their hands about the Israelis destroying the hospital. It was deliberate! How else do you get the enemy? 

 

I don't know how else one "gets" the enemy. I recognize the difficulty. I just know this current operation is a disaster, both humanitarian and strategic. Israel may very well destroy Hamas, but an achievement built on a foundation of dead children will bear perverse fruit.

Israel is fighting Hamas, but they are surrending the high road. They are surrendering moral authority in exchange for moral ambiguity. They are creating martyrs and victims and enemies.

A new generation of Palestinians (or two) have now been radicalized. We're watching it happen. Whether they join Hamas or Hamas is destroyed and they join the next incarnation with a different name, the effect will be the same. 

And what will the rest of the world think? Where will their sympathies lie the next time Hamas 2.0 perpetrates some act of terror? When Hamas 2.0 posts their videos on YouTube rationalizing renewed brutality? When they say "Israel killed my children, my brothers, my sisters, my cousins. They were only children. Israel is a bully, brutal and and oppressive. We have no choice but to fight for our freedom." It becomes very difficult to say that they don't have a point. We will have watched all of it happen. An eye for an eye...

Edited November 25, 2023 by Hodad

[CdnFox]

22 minutes ago, Hodad said:

 

I don't know how else one "gets" the enemy. I recognize the difficulty. I just know this current operation is a disaster, both humanitarian and strategic. Israel may very well destroy Hamas, but an achievement built on a foundation of dead children will bear perverse fruit.

Israel has tried the high road before. Didn't work.

If letting hamas live and leaving gaza intact didn't work before - trying it the other way seems to make sense.

[Nationalist]

1 hour ago, robosmith said:

No. Putin clearly had a huge part in it; esp sending in anonymous Russian troops known as "green men."

The part Ukraine played was resisting the invasion of Russian troops and trying to quash a rebellion incited by Putin.

Do you understand why Ukrainians rebelled against Yanukovych at Maidan and voted him OUT? 

Do you know how many protesters were killed at Maidan by the Berkut at Yanukovych's orders?

Do you know how many Ukrainians have died for your bloodlust?