Death of democracy by boredom

[myata]

About two millennia back, Romans were first to discover how a virtue of democracy is degraded and decayed by the routine; apathy and boredom. Nothing else to expect; no will or desire to think; just give me everything I want or I'll push the red button. Or, I'll push it anyways if only out of spite and boredom. After that they had Commodus, Caligula and Neron suffered and cried many times over. But it was so long ago.. and looks like it's here again.

A dictator unleashed a brutal war. Terrorists started another. Economy unstable and volatile. No, you have to fix it magically. If not, here, the red button!

Populists promise miraculous gifts and solutions out of an empty finger (takes only a minute to check, but why - no, I'd rather press this button - because I can, right?). What if some sweet and pleasant surprises can be sucked out of there? Never happened? But what if we try again!

"Bread and circuses" effect. Names and parties aren't even that important. Because when an average citizen is prepared to hang the responsibility and reason at the front door, no mysteries or feats will be able to rescue the democracy. Democracy is not a paper, declarations not even the institutions. It is a habitat of free, intelligent and responsible citizens. In a vacuum of thought and responsibility, nothing is left to keep it alive. There will be no miracles here. After a period of relative prosperity - a bit shorter than Roman, the world appears to be ready to embrace a new age of chaos. No, we cannot learn.

[Nationalist]

42 minutes ago, myata said:

About two millennia back, Romans were first to discover how a virtue of democracy is degraded and decayed by the routine; apathy and boredom. Nothing else to expect; no will or desire to think; just give me everything I want or I'll push the red button. Or, I'll push it anyways if only out of spite and boredom. After that they had Commodus, Caligula and Neron suffered and cried many times over. But it was so long ago.. and looks like it's here again.

A dictator unleashed a brutal war. Terrorists started another. Economy unstable and volatile. No, you have to fix it magically. If not, here, the red button!

Populists promise miraculous gifts and solutions out of an empty finger (takes only a minute to check, but why - no, I'd rather press this button - because I can, right?). What if some sweet and pleasant surprises can be sucked out of there? Never happened? But what if we try again!

"Bread and circuses" effect. Names and parties aren't even that important. Because when an average citizen is prepared to hang the responsibility and reason at the front door, no mysteries or feats will be able to rescue the democracy. Democracy is not a paper, declarations not even the institutions. It is a habitat of free, intelligent and responsible citizens. In a vacuum of thought and responsibility, nothing is left to keep it alive. There will be no miracles here. After a period of relative prosperity - a bit shorter than Roman, the world appears to be ready to embrace a new age of chaos. No, we cannot learn.

Humans have a compassion that overrides logic. Thus, there is always an inexorable journey toward liberal ideas. Unfortunately, liberalism does not know when to stop. Thus it pushes past any reasonable stage toward complete centralized leadership. We call it "Globalism". But "Globalism" is only really taking hold in the more liberal parts of our world...namely the west. Some others take advantage of our liberal ideas but do not participate. Others completely reject the idea.

To further complicate things, our "Globalist" ideas push us to meddle in the affairs of other nations, and then we allow these people to immigrate to our western liberal world. This is dumb beyond all reason. Meddle in a nation's affairs...p1ss the populace off...then allow them to waltz into your nation. They should all be given a T-Shirt that says..."I'm here to kill Stupid" with a finger pointing out right at America and Europe.

Liberalism needs to be leashed right now. It'll take strong leadership and the ability to say "NO" to stupidity that only harms our part of the world. If this does not happen...The West is doomed.

IMHO of course...

[Deluge]

1 hour ago, myata said:

About two millennia back, Romans were first to discover how a virtue of democracy is degraded and decayed by the routine; apathy and boredom. Nothing else to expect; no will or desire to think; just give me everything I want or I'll push the red button. Or, I'll push it anyways if only out of spite and boredom. After that they had Commodus, Caligula and Neron suffered and cried many times over. But it was so long ago.. and looks like it's here again.

A dictator unleashed a brutal war. Terrorists started another. Economy unstable and volatile. No, you have to fix it magically. If not, here, the red button!

Populists promise miraculous gifts and solutions out of an empty finger (takes only a minute to check, but why - no, I'd rather press this button - because I can, right?). What if some sweet and pleasant surprises can be sucked out of there? Never happened? But what if we try again!

"Bread and circuses" effect. Names and parties aren't even that important. Because when an average citizen is prepared to hang the responsibility and reason at the front door, no mysteries or feats will be able to rescue the democracy. Democracy is not a paper, declarations not even the institutions. It is a habitat of free, intelligent and responsible citizens. In a vacuum of thought and responsibility, nothing is left to keep it alive. There will be no miracles here. After a period of relative prosperity - a bit shorter than Roman, the world appears to be ready to embrace a new age of chaos. No, we cannot learn.

I think today's wokeness movement has been doing a pretty good job of shocking us back into productivity.

After we purge the country of woke filth, we'll be able to recapture the true spirit of what this country is about. 

[Michael Hardner]

There's a thing called the Public Sphere.  People don't understand it, any more than a fish understands water.

You have to manage it, prime it, or it causes problems.

Read Amusing Ourselves to Death by Neil Postman.

[robosmith]

2 hours ago, Deluge said:

I think today's wokeness movement has been doing a pretty good job of shocking us back into productivity.

Agreed. Waking, recognizing, and disposal of prior OPPRESSION has caused the blossoming of productivity among the previously oppressed. 

2 hours ago, Deluge said:

After we purge the country of woke filth, we'll be able to recapture the true spirit of what this country is about. 

Thanks for admitting that you want to descend back to the FF vision of racist slavery, misogyny, and persecution of LGTBQ minorities.

Sorry to disappoint you, but that ain't gonna happen.

[Deluge]

14 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Agreed. Waking, recognizing, and disposal of prior OPPRESSION has caused the blossoming of productivity among the previously oppressed. 

Thanks for admitting that you want to descend back to the FF vision of racist slavery, misogyny, and persecution of LGTBQ minorities.

Sorry to disappoint you, but that ain't gonna happen.

No it hasn't. It has spawned woke bullshit like ESG which destroys businesses and wrecks the economy. 

The persecution comes from the democrat party. Leftists are a cancer to society and they need to be banished to the Middle East. 

[WestCanMan]

5 hours ago, myata said:

 just give me everything I want or I'll push the red button. Or, I'll push it anyways if only out of spite and boredom.

That made sense in a world where, on a day-to-day basis, voters had no reliable insights into what was really happening, what their politicians were saying, etc. 

In 2023, literally everyone should know that the FBI lied and committed crimes to help the Dems. They should know that the FBI lied about the Hunter laptop in order to get that info banned from social media in 2020.

Americans should actually know that a lot of actual crimes by the FBI and Dems require serious attention - they wanna see if the Trumps overestimated the value of their real estate portfolio a few years ago when they applied for a loan lol. 

Granted, those people are so stupid that they deserve to end up being ruled by autocrats, it's just a pity that they got to choose the autocrat that's ruling us all. 

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, robosmith said:

Thanks for admitting that you want to descend back to the FF vision of racist slavery, misogyny, and persecution of LGTBQ minorities.

You are wrong, this person didn't say that.

If they were descending then that's a passive verb, referring to a direction being taken - in a general sense.  It could be driven by democratic processes.

They clearly referred to a purge, which means removal of woke people presumably by taking away their rights or their lives.

[robosmith]

4 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

You are wrong, this person didn't say that.

If they were descending then that's a passive verb, referring to a direction being taken - in a general sense.  It could be driven by democratic processes.

They clearly referred to a purge, which means removal of woke people presumably by taking away their rights or their lives.

Quote

After we purge the country of woke filth, we'll be able to recapture the true spirit of what this country is about. 

Purging (woke people) enables "recapture the true spirit."

I added "descend" because that is FF vision from which we've PROGRESSED.

[impartialobserver]

I read an academic journal article about 4 years ago and it showed that the amount of folks who are apolitical was both understated and growing. The apathy of the typical voter is growing. With no common enemy like Japan or Hitler to unite the masses.. most are only concerned with themselves and their smaller sphere of influence. I mostly fit that... complaining about Mitch McConnell or Nancy Pelosi does not make my paycheck grow nor does it put food on the table. 

[Michael Hardner]

57 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Purging (woke people) enables "recapture the true spirit."

I added "descend" because that is FF vision from which we've PROGRESSED.

I think that their call for our deaths is worse, but I'm biased because I like my life somewhat.

[Hodad]

7 hours ago, myata said:

 

A dictator unleashed a brutal war. Terrorists started another. Economy unstable and volatile. No, you have to fix it magically. If not, here, the red button!

Populists promise miraculous gifts and solutions out of an empty finger (takes only a minute to check, but why - no, I'd rather press this button - because I can, right?).

 

This is a good post with valid criticism. Weirdly though, it was particularly well liked by an unexpected handful of people as it sailed overhead.

 

[myata]

8 hours ago, impartialobserver said:

complaining about Mitch McConnell or Nancy Pelosi does not make my paycheck grow nor does it put food on the table. 

That's it. Between "me" and that thing called democracy there's no meaningful connection. It does not do anything for me, just sits there - and guaranteed and assured to be there no matter what I do. Apathy and boredom. We may just be heading into another cycle where we will discover that nothing is guaranteed and assured here. It would only take a few minutes to think and remember. Why though?

[myata]

13 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

You have to manage it, prime it

"You" who? Entitled and detached but benevolent bureaucracy? It may be much simpler: the entropy took its course. The populace doesn't care and the elites, don't want to see. What's coming.

[myata]

The problem is this. Once in a while the status quo runs into a period, phase of stagnation. New directions, will, ideals are needed but we created our relationship with the system in such a way that 1) we cannot create new solutions - only consume those produced by the system; we aren't really the stakeholders and owners (as in the claim) but in reality, only consumers. And of course, 2) the system we made is programmed for meaningless incremental change and above all, reproduction of the status quo and itself.

This is well known and trodden dead end, stalemate of democracy. Joe feels it, the dead end, suffocation of the paths forward and renewal no need for complicated analyses and this why s/he begins looking for surprises and adventures that invariably bring them chaos, suffering and big bad problems. But we just cannot do it, renew and escape an evolutionary dead alley other way but messing things up and going through a period of chaos, struggle and hard-earned enlightenment,  if only for a couple of generations. And all over, and again. Nope, no other way for us as it seems.

[Michael Hardner]

5 hours ago, myata said:

1. "You" who?

2. Entitled and detached but benevolent bureaucracy?

3. It may be much simpler: the entropy took its course.

4. The populace doesn't care and the elites, don't want to see. What's coming.

1. I meant "one" as in "one has to".  But really it's "we".

2. If it works, I suppose.

3. If you think that, then what comes next?  Another cycle of ruling class that assumes divine right?

4. What IS coming?

[myata]

18 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

4. What IS coming?

Just one above

[Michael Hardner]

5 minutes ago, myata said:

Just one above

Ok, well... I am interested in having an assessment of the democratic reforms since western democracy arrived to see if your post is applicable or if it overstates things.

Was universal suffrage not a new solution?  The social safety net or the New Deal?

If not then you have to imagine a new solution being a top to bottom redesign of our political economic sphere, or a Mad Max scale collapse.

If I had to guess, I'd bet that something more familiar emerges.

Keep in mind that everything looks so strange right now because our media itself is populist.  So it's difficult to assess what is true.

[myata]

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Was universal suffrage not a new solution? 

It wasn't meant ever, or at all of course. Representative democracy achieved many good things, many too obvious to list. But, now at this time the perception is: it is stagnating. It has run its good course and there isn't many new and exciting opportunities ahead. Especially it relates to the countries with binary political systems; they are either in a stagnation mode, or if still doing reasonably well, in a autopilot running mode with more disconnected population at every cycle. We need solutions to involve citizens in democracy directly and seriously not baby sleigh ride style. But the system will reject all and any such attempts. It doesn't need citizens really. It has grown smug and comfy being just by itself. Just leave your taxes at the door, you duty. To us.

Edited November 7, 2023 by myata

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, myata said:

It wasn't meant ever, or at all of course. Representative democracy achieved many good things, many too obvious to list. But, now at this time the perception is: it is stagnating. It has run its good course and there isn't many new and exciting opportunities ahead. Especially it relates to the countries with binary political systems; they are either in a stagnation mode, or if still doing reasonably well, in a autopilot running mode with more disconnected population at every cycle. We need solutions to involve citizens in democracy directly and seriously not baby sleigh ride style. But the system will reject all and any such attempts. It doesn't need citizens really. It has grown smug and comfy being just by itself. Just leave your taxes at the door, you duty. To us.

I don't dispute the perception, and to add: my take on it is that democracy as a framework depends on the public sphere, which exists in all systems, and is as such dependent on public media.  

I also agree generally with your call for solutions and more engagement - very much so.

I don't think that we can say for sure that the system will fall, or the aforementioned chaos will consume it since it IS dependent on the public sphere and that sphere persists.

There are other examples of new media formenting chaos... the results eventually balanced themselves on the new media.  JFK, for example, was considered by some to have won his televised debate with Nixon because of imagery, which in turn was seen as a bad thing.   

Edited November 7, 2023 by Michael Hardner