Should mental Health Professionals Be Culpable For Failures Like The Maine Shooting?

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, BeaverFever said:

Where did I or anyone else on this say anything about confiscating all guns or gun owners are bad?  Stop lying

Most of the posts actually. We've already had "gun onwers love their guns more than their children" -  you saying that makes them GOOD people?

You're the liar here - and don't even have the balls to stand by what's been said. Pathetic.

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Remember you’re someone who likes to employ absurdly overly-literal attacks like “you said PP calls people Marxist but sometimes he calls them communist you’re such a liar!” 

Ahhh no - that was you kiddo    You said PP "cries marxist" constantly and when i challenged you on it and you coulnd't back it up - then you tried to say 'marxist" means socialist or 'woke'   LOLOL

The problem is you say shit you later regrent - and then demand it's my fault if i point it out.

 

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Any person with common sense understands that severely mentally ill people with homicidal tendencies should not   blah blah rant rant whine whine

Nope. Not you. You believe the gun is the problem, not the crazy person. If you REALLY belieed that your position should be 'We should do something about crazy people" - guns wouldn't really come  into it. Crazy homicidal people should be treated because they can use ANYTHNIG to kill people.

 

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The only reason Republicans oppose that idea is because their party is owned by the notoriously corrupt and scandal-plagued NRA.

the nra puts very little money into the republican party. It's a myth the left loves to put out there but it's stupid. It 'owns' nothing. 

Most gun owners support the republicans but that's sort of a self fulfilling thing - they CANT support the dems because the dems hate them and think they're scum. So they support republicans and republicans take steps to keep that support.

If the dems were sane then it wouldn't matter. But they're not.

[CdnFox]

9 minutes ago, NYLefty said:

Hmmm, let's see. Do I Care? Nope?

Unlike you Reichwing Nuts I could care less about who reads or likes my posts.

Here's a clue kiddo - people who REALLY don't care also don't bother taking the time to tell people they don't care

 

So thanks for caring   LOL 

[Guest]

On 10/27/2023 at 1:34 PM, WestCanMan said:

The fact that he was such a blatant risk and was let out so quickly is the main issue here. 

Exactly, but blaming guns is far more convenient, as is a hot button topic that gets you votes.

Harder to discuss the professionals who didn't flag the living daylight out of this guy.

[WestCanMan]

2 hours ago, NYLefty said:

Hmmm, let's see. Do I Care? Nope?

Believe me, I know that you don't care how stupid your old posts are. You've become accustomed to it by now. 

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

Exactly, but blaming guns is far more convenient, as is a hot button topic that gets you votes.

Harder to discuss the professionals who didn't flag the living daylight out of this guy.

I wonder how many times they let people like that out and just 1 or two people are killed, so we never hear about it, or how many people are brutally assaulted by guys like that, how many families live in fear of a psychopath, etc. 

For every guy like him there are probably 50 killers, 5,000 violent criminals, 50,000 abused families, etc...

He's like the tip of the iceberg, only if the iceberg was upside down and made of crap. 

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

I wonder how many times they let people like that out and just 1 or two people are killed, so we never hear about it, or how many people are brutally assaulted by guys like that, how many families live in fear of a psychopath, etc. 

For every guy like him there are probably 50 killers, 5,000 violent criminals, 50,000 abused families, etc...

He's like the tip of the iceberg, only if the iceberg was upside down and made of crap. 

Well there's no doubt. Violence and mental health issues go hand in hand and treatment is very poor in the states,

Hell - look at the problems we've got here in canada with that right now since trudeau relaxed the laws.  turns out if you let violent nutbars back out into the public, they act violent and nutbarish.

But hey as long as they don't use a gun no big deal amirite?

[Caswell Thomas]

On 10/27/2023 at 2:44 PM, CdnFox said:

Or  suing a gun manufacturer for the actions of a crazy person?  LOLOL

 in any case for sure it's a legislative issue.  But - there's little chance of their being a change when the democrats act like psychopaths towards any gun or gun owner and the republicans are petrified of giving them a milimeter.

If the dems would settle down and just accept that gun ownership is a right in the us and lawful people are going to own one and that does NOT mean they hate their children, then i think headway could be made. Reasonable reporting laws for the background checks, reasonable laws compelling treatment of dangerous mental illnesess, etc.

We already have plenty of laws about responsible selling and use of firearms, we also have plenty in f psychological treatment laws, and skilled psyche as well, the problem has been that if a person wants to shoot someone or many its very hard to detect in advance. The problems with psychosis is that it is a disease and it affects people both in some similar but also dissimilar ways as well so it can be unpredictable sometimes. Having purchased several firearms in the past I have had a few background checks done on me but after one gun show I actually had to ask the seller if he had done one because they have to send you a disclosure form and he hadn't.  His response was " well, if you really want all that nonsense".  A friend mine ran a trace on the rifle, thankfully it was ok., the seller though had a history of non-profit compliance and they suspended his permit.  How many more sellers are out there though who.look the other way?

Just now, Caswell Thomas said:

We already have plenty of laws about responsible selling and use of firearms, we also have plenty in f psychological treatment laws, and skilled psyche as well, the problem has been that if a person wants to shoot someone or many its very hard to detect in advance. The problems with psychosis is that it is a disease and it affects people both in some similar but also dissimilar ways as well so it can be unpredictable sometimes. Having purchased several firearms in the past I have had a few background checks done on me but after one gun show I actually had to ask the seller if he had done one because they have to send you a disclosure form and he hadn't.  His response was " well, if you really want all that nonsense".  A friend mine ran a trace on the rifle, thankfully it was ok., the seller though had a history of non-profit compliance and they suspended his permit.  How many more sellers are out there though who.look the other way?

Not " non-profit "..non-compliance. Dumb kindle editor. 

[CdnFox]

6 minutes ago, Caswell Thomas said:

we also have plenty in f psychological treatment laws, and skilled psyche as well,

No you don't.

6 minutes ago, Caswell Thomas said:

the problem has been that if a person wants to shoot someone or many its very hard to detect in advance

no it isn't. it's very easy.

6 minutes ago, Caswell Thomas said:

The problems with psychosis is that it is a disease and it affects people both in some similar but also dissimilar ways as well so it can be unpredictable sometimes.

This guy literally said he heard voices telling him to conduct violence.

Sorry but your post is simply wrong.  And in canada we've seen a number of attacks 'thwarted' by recognizing there was a problem with someone first.  ANd a number of attacks that happened where looking back they should have known but missed it.

Sure. Some will always slip through the cracks. But the simple fact is people don't just 'snap' , and there is a lot of research out there to help people detect when someone might have a very serious problem and what that would look like.

But there's VERY little in the way of treatment or help, and not much in the way of education either.  And no 'red flag' laws to help force treatment for those who are in seriously dangerous shape.

We can have a discussion about gun laws and people who break them of course - but at the end of the day crazy people regularly kill people in large numbers using tools other than guns.  The trick is to get the crazy person before they decide it's ok to kill people

[OftenWrong]

Perhaps he was on some interesting pharmaceuticals. Most Americans are whacked out on some kind of pills or another.

[Nationalist]

Libbies...raging against their own constitution. It's a fool's errand.

Should there be more stringently adhered to laws? IMO...yes. can the second amendment be "canceled"?

Not in this lifetime.

[Hodad]

2 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Libbies...raging against their own constitution. It's a fool's errand.

Should there be more stringently adhered to laws? IMO...yes. can the second amendment be "canceled"?

Not in this lifetime.

The 2nd amendment doesn't have to be cancelled. We have long had regulation of "arms" which can be owned and conditions under which certain arms may be owned. 

 

[CdnFox]

6 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Perhaps he was on some interesting pharmaceuticals. Most Americans are whacked out on some kind of pills or another.

I doubt they let him leave that hospital without prescribing something.  but after people are given pills they are rarely monitored and the pills can have all kinds of adverse effects especially if they're taking them intermittently instead of regularly.  Which happens a lot.

[CdnFox]

56 minutes ago, Hodad said:

The 2nd amendment doesn't have to be cancelled. We have long had regulation of "arms" which can be owned and conditions under which certain arms may be owned. 

 

The left intends to 'cancel' it by over regulation. We've seen it in canada.  And every time it's "just this one reasonable law", followed a short time later by more restrictions.

"hey  -  requiring safety training makes sense right? I mean - we all want to be safe. That's ALL we're talking about"  - uhh sure, we'll go for that

"hey - licensing makes sense right? I mean you're already taking the safety stuff.  That way if we feel someone should' t own guns for any reason we can deny them a license. And this is the very last thing"  well.. we have concerns but ..i suppose

"Hey - you don't mind if we register all your guns so if you're a danger we can know what to collect rigth? And of course if we ban a type of gun we'll know where they are so we can come get them by force"  No - we're not ok with that . "Well we're doing it anyway. Oh - we're also banning these guns."

Hey - you don't mind if we ban ALL semi autos and anything not strictly useful for hunting do you? BTW - any gun with a scope is a sniper rifle.

You guys used to hunt with single shots and muzzle loaders only back in the day right?

 

That's HAPPENED - so the states knows it can happen here and what the end goal is and they're fighting like hell to not give an inch because every inch they give is an inch closer to a gun ban.

In canada we're looking at trying to win back some of our rights and we've learned our lesson about "just one more law'.

[Nationalist]

1 hour ago, Hodad said:

The 2nd amendment doesn't have to be cancelled. We have long had regulation of "arms" which can be owned and conditions under which certain arms may be owned. 

 

Sure and alot of good it does. We have gun issues too and Canada has even more regulation on guns. You want to clamp down on gun violence...enforce the laws. The police know who's dealing the illegal arms to criminals. Let them do their jobs. Quit electing these wet noodle DAs. Take back the cities. Instead of emptying prisons...build more. More psycho sanitoriums with drug treatment as well. Direct society away from glorified crime and towards respect honor and family.

These ideas work. I know it and so do you. Society doesn't just need order, it craves it. Without order, society loses cohesiveness and you get angry people.

[Hodad]

3 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Sure and alot of good it does. We have gun issues too and Canada has even more regulation on guns. You want to clamp down on gun violence...enforce the laws. The police know who's dealing the illegal arms to criminals. Let them do their jobs. Quit electing these wet noodle DAs. Take back the cities. Instead of emptying prisons...build more. More psycho sanitoriums with drug treatment as well. Direct society away from glorified crime and towards respect honor and family.

These ideas work. I know it and so do you. Society doesn't just need order, it craves it. Without order, society loses cohesiveness and you get angry people.

We have the highest incarceration rate in the world--and the most gun violence and mass shootings. 

If that's your idea of policy that "works" I'd prefer a broken system.?‍♀️

Edited October 29, 2023 by Hodad

[CdnFox]

56 minutes ago, Hodad said:

We have the highest incarceration rate in the world--and the most fun violence and mass shootings. 

 

And?

Your crime rate went down with higher incarceration rates.

 

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I f that's your idea of policy that "works" I'd prefer a broken system.?‍♀️ 

would you? Because when you had a more broken one crime was higher, murder and violence was higher..  how was that better?

Meanwhile Canada recently passed laws to reduce incarceration and violent crime has shot through the roof

Soooooo  yeah.

[Caswell Thomas]

4 hours ago, CdnFox said:

I doubt they let him leave that hospital without prescribing something.  but after people are given pills they are rarely monitored and the pills can have all kinds of adverse effects especially if they're taking them intermittently instead of regularly.  Which happens a lot.

Most Americans are NOT "whacked out on one drug or another".  State your sources or retract this . 

[Aristides]

On 10/27/2023 at 11:39 AM, Rebound said:

Should mental health workers be able to prohibit mentally unstable people from purchasing or owning guns? I think so!!!

But they aren't so it is a bogus position to maintain that they are responsible for what this guy did.

[Aristides]

On 10/28/2023 at 2:41 PM, Perspektiv said:

Exactly, but blaming guns is far more convenient, as is a hot button topic that gets you votes.

Harder to discuss the professionals who didn't flag the living daylight out of this guy.

Guns themselves aren't to blame, it's a society that allows anyone access to military grade firearms. 

[Aristides]

On 10/27/2023 at 10:18 AM, robosmith said:

Where is the legal authority for medical professionals to prohibit gun ownership/access?

The culpability is with the legislators and the gun manufacturers who bought them, who have failed to grant that authority to anyone.

Your hero Trump revoked a law which prohibited mentally ill patients from acquiring arms.

Trump ended rule to block mentally ill from getting guns

 

Figures.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

Guns themselves aren't to blame, it's a society that allows anyone access to military grade firearms. 

So handguns being used for the majority of deadly mass shootings, is okay? 

At least there weren't 50 killed. Thank God it was only 5? Or 9, in the case of the link I provided, where people were singing the praises of the fact that the shooter could only get their hands on a Glock.

Your logic baffles me. 

Same logic as those okay with shootings nearly daily in the Southside of cities like Chicago. Part of the way of life.

But lord forbid those killings make their way closer to white neighborhoods. 

Then you get the classic interview response:

"Shootings like that don't belong in a neighborhood like this"

An acknowledgment that there is a time and place for these atrocities. 

Kind of like your logic, that mass shootings should only be performed via handguns.

Military grade weapons have no business being used on civilians. They should be killed by handguns, like in those black neighborhoods o_O

[Aristides]

53 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

So handguns being used for the majority of deadly mass shootings, is okay? 

At least there weren't 50 killed. Thank God it was only 5? Or 9, in the case of the link I provided, where people were singing the praises of the fact that the shooter could only get their hands on a Glock.

Your logic baffles me. 

Same logic as those okay with shootings nearly daily in the Southside of cities like Chicago. Part of the way of life.

But lord forbid those killings make their way closer to white neighborhoods. 

Then you get the classic interview response:

"Shootings like that don't belong in a neighborhood like this"

An acknowledgment that there is a time and place for these atrocities. 

Kind of like your logic, that mass shootings should only be performed via handguns.

Military grade weapons have no business being used on civilians. They should be killed by handguns, like in those black neighborhoods o_O

Who said that? What are you trying to say? Why do they have mass shootings at all? They are extremely rare in other developed countries, they are only an epidemic in the US where handguns and military grade rifles are available to just about anyone. 

 

US gun controls are a bad joke. Federal background checks are just a data  base check based on data provided by  states, they only apply to dealers and if they aren't processed in 48 hours the gun gets sold anyway. A person can buy a gun privately with no checks at all. It would be laughable if it wasn't such a cruel joke.

Edited October 30, 2023 by Aristides

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, Caswell Thomas said:

Most Americans are NOT "whacked out on one drug or another".  State your sources or retract this . 

I never said that.  WHat kind of utter 1diot demands someone state their sources after misquoting them?  If you're done with your self-colonoscopy then please pull your head out of your ass.

3 hours ago, Aristides said:

Guns themselves aren't to blame, it's a society that allows anyone access to military grade firearms. 

You don't even know what a 'military grade firearm' is.  And this is why the gun owners are afraid to trust the left on the issue - dumb statements like that.

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

They are extremely rare in other developed countries

Maybe why so many lonely men are as angry as they are in the US, is a good starting point. 

What caused the loneliness? The anger?

The guns are only part of the issue. If this wasn't cultural, the issue would have remained consistent, and not exploded in and around 2010, onwards.

[Aristides]

3 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Maybe why so many lonely men are as angry as they are in the US, is a good starting point. 

What caused the loneliness? The anger?

The guns are only part of the issue. If this wasn't cultural, the issue would have remained consistent, and not exploded in and around 2010, onwards.

How does that make the US different from any other country? The US obsession with guns is certainly cultural and what sets it apart from other developed countries.