Abolishing money would make us happy

[Aristides]

11 hours ago, cougar said:

Why do you think my ability to post is one of my paramount needs?

I do not need to communicate with lost souls in a lost civilization over an internet.

All I want is for those lost souls to stop f-ing up my world.

 

So you can't use cards and you can't use cash because you have no way of doing it yourself or building the system that allows you to use them. Good luck trading that chicken for a tank of gas. Oh wait, who is going to develop the resources and infrastructure to provide that gas or build that car.

Edited November 22, 2023 by Aristides

[Gaétan]

On 11/22/2023 at 2:49 PM, Aristides said:

So you can't use cards and you can't use cash because you have no way of doing it yourself or building the system that allows you to use them. Good luck trading that chicken for a tank of gas. Oh wait, who is going to develop the resources and infrastructure to provide that gas or build that car.

When money is abolished we don't trade chikens for hydrogen gaz, you bring chikens to market and take what you need what ever it is.

Edited November 23, 2023 by Gaétan

[Aristides]

27 minutes ago, Gaétan said:

When money is abolished we don't trade chikens for hydrogen gaz, you bring chikens to market and take what you need what ever it is.

Who do you think will provide you with what you need? Maybe they don't want chickens. What about all the manufactured things you use?

Money and credit are what makes our society possible.

[Gaétan]

10 hours ago, Aristides said:

Who do you think will provide you with what you need? Maybe they don't want chickens. What about all the manufactured things you use?

Money and credit are what makes our society possible.

Workers will provide every thing people need. Working is driven by the need to live in comfort

[cougar]

On 11/22/2023 at 11:49 AM, Aristides said:

So you can't use cards and you can't use cash because you have no way of doing it yourself or building the system that allows you to use them. Good luck trading that chicken for a tank of gas. Oh wait, who is going to develop the resources and infrastructure to provide that gas or build that car.

Again, wrong assumptions.  I will not need a car, neither gas.

[Aristides]

59 minutes ago, cougar said:

Again, wrong assumptions.  I will not need a car, neither gas.

How are the things you need going to be made and get to you? What are you going to offer in return?

Edited November 27, 2023 by Aristides

[Michael Hardner]

Humans have never rolled back a technological revolution.

But the OP signifies a general sense that a large change is needed.

Those of you who are advocating for this change, perhaps you might step back a bit and imagine a next step..

[Gaétan]

10 hours ago, Aristides said:

How are the things you need going to be made and get to you? What are you going to offer in return?

Money provides nothing it is work that provides every things and you don't need to be paid or to pay. In exchange of your work you get what others produced by working. For exemple, you produce potatoes, you bring it to maket with truck and gaz others produced by working and you take what you need produced by others workers, there is no need to count anything.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Humans have never rolled back a technological revolution.

But the OP signifies a general sense that a large change is needed.

Those of you who are advocating for this change, perhaps you might step back a bit and imagine a next step..

Potatoes!  That's your next step right there.

9 minutes ago, Gaétan said:

Money provides nothing it is work that provides every things and you don't need to be paid or to pay. In exchange of your work you get what others produced by working. For exemple, you produce potatoes, you bring it to maket with truck and gaz others produced by working and you take what you need produced by others workers, there is no need to count anything.

And then, when you need a bigger truck, you move up to turnips.

Of course, there will still be billionaires controlling everyone.  They will be the ones with the clean water.

[Michael Hardner]

40 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

1. Potatoes!  That's your next step right there.

1. Potatoes are old technology, which is not to say it's not a PROVEN technology.  Also yummy, esp in fried form.
 
We could make this forum famous if we had the wearwithal to collectively imagine practical replacements for money.  I suggested that a type of money with an expiry date on it be produced digitally, so that it can be assured that it is spent and not hoarded.  @eyeball liked it.   The date would refresh every time it was spent.  Obviously the poor and those living cheque to cheque would be ok with it.

You'd also allow a target amount to be actually SAVED, as this is what the government wants also, to a point, and tries to achieve it with the more arms-length mechanism of interest rate adjustments.

Another idea might be open and monitored money transactions mandatory for certain stakeholders/groups.  @eyeball is on this for lobbyists and MPs... 

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Potatoes are old technology, which is not to say it's not a PROVEN technology.  Also yummy, esp in fried form.

Romanoff and Colcannon come to mind...

[Michael Hardner]

Just now, bcsapper said:

Romanoff and Colcannon come to mind...

Vichysois?  Is that how you spell it?

[Michael Hardner]

People don't think much about "money".  It began as etchings in clay tablets in a public store wherein you would check in products and check out goods.

Bring in a cow, you get a ton of grain, textiles and goods banked.

I'm going to point out that hoarding was impossible, but the benefits of reduced specialization and reduced waste lifted the entire society up in material wealth.

When I see economists puzzling over whether Amazon can be taxed or not, I wonder why they don't have any imagination.

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Vichysois?  Is that how you spell it?

I spell it leek and potato soup.

[Aristides]

5 hours ago, Gaétan said:

Money provides nothing it is work that provides every things and you don't need to be paid or to pay. In exchange of your work you get what others produced by working. For exemple, you produce potatoes, you bring it to maket with truck and gaz others produced by working and you take what you need produced by others workers, there is no need to count anything.

Of course you need to count something. How  many potatoes do you need to get that truck and gas? How do those people produce that truck and gas, by growing it in their back yard?

[Gaétan]

17 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Of course you need to count something. How  many potatoes do you need to get that truck and gas? How do those people produce that truck and gas, by growing it in their back yard?

Why would you need to count anything? You are scared to not get a fair reward for your work? You just take more than you need and put the rest in garbage if you are a fool.

[Michael Hardner]

23 minutes ago, Gaétan said:

Why would you need to count anything? You are scared to not get a fair reward for your work? You just take more than you need and put the rest in garbage if you are a fool.

Civilization made the great leap forward by counting... are you actually against math ?

For what you seem to actually be addressing - people are also concerned with fairness and that's utterly normal.

[Aristides]

39 minutes ago, Gaétan said:

Why would you need to count anything? You are scared to not get a fair reward for your work? You just take more than you need and put the rest in garbage if you are a fool.

How are you rewarding the people who supply what you need? Your potatoes will not build a factory, refinery, powerplant or anything else you depend on.

[Gaétan]

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

How are you rewarding the people who supply what you need? Your potatoes will not build a factory, refinery, powerplant or anything else you depend on.

People who supply what i need are rewarded by me and others who work. I supply John with patatoes, Jonh supply Henry with tomatoes, Henry supply Jeanne with oignons, Jeanne supply Mary with coffee, Mary supply me with blueberry. For my work done for John finally i am rewarded by Mary.

[Aristides]

14 minutes ago, Gaétan said:

People who supply what i need are rewarded by me and others who work. I supply John with patatoes, Jonh supply Henry with tomatoes, Henry supply Jeanne with oignons, Jeanne supply Mary with coffee, Mary supply me with blueberry. For my work done for John finally i am rewarded by Mary.

What if no one wants your potatoes, should you be able to take anything you want anyway? What if everyone brought potatoes and nothing else? What will you do for the eight months of the year you can't grow potatoes? Your potatoes will eventually rot if they aren't used. Money doesn't rot and can be invested to generate more money. It also allows you to buy whatever you want, when you want, anywhere you want and can be used by others the same way. Your potatoes can't do that. 

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, Gaétan said:

People who supply what i need are rewarded by me and others who work. I supply John with patatoes, Jonh supply Henry with tomatoes, Henry supply Jeanne with oignons, Jeanne supply Mary with coffee, Mary supply me with blueberry. For my work done for John finally i am rewarded by Mary.

So you're living in the open on raw potatoes and blueberries.  You don't have a house, or a stove, or even anywhere to put a house or a stove, because you don't have enough potatoes to afford those.  Not if you want to keep getting blueberries from Mary.

And where does Jeanne get her coffee?

[Aristides]

18 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

 

And where does Jeanne get her coffee?

I guess she gives the grower in South America or Africa, the company that shipped them and the roaster some of Gaetan's potatoes. 

[cougar]

22 hours ago, Aristides said:

How are the things you need going to be made and get to you? What are you going to offer in return?

What "things" would I be needing?  If my wooden cabin is built and I have enough food , clothes and wood for heating, there will be very few "things" I might need.

In general we are looking at A*B=C, where we want to reduce C to survive.   I was so far looking at reducing or bringing B down to zero, but we can also bring A down without making changes to B, if you know what I mean.  (which I know you do)

[Gaétan]

4 hours ago, Aristides said:

What if no one wants your potatoes, should you be able to take anything you want anyway? 

Yes, if nobody wants patatoes what i doubt you just take what you need anyway. It is just an exemple, if you need a tv instead of blueberries you take it, if you don't need anything you don't take anything, you just bring your patatoes in the grocery and leave it there, you take what you need another day when ever you need something.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Gaétan

[Aristides]

34 minutes ago, Gaétan said:

Yes, if nobody wants patatoes what i doubt you just take what you need anyway. It is just an exemple, if you need a tv instead of blueberries you take it, if you don't need anything you don't take anything, you just bring your patatoes in the grocery and leave it there, you take what you need another day when ever you need something.

 

Who makes the TV? How does it get there? Who makes all the components that go into it? Why do you think you are entitled to take what you need in exchange for what ever piece of crap you want to exchange for it? You just want something for nothing and expect others to provide it for you.