First Nations in northern Ontario seek over $100B to honour treaty promise

[Army Guy]

24 minutes ago, herbie said:

Let's drag our feet on treaties for another hundred years so it can get to $1 Trillion.

 

Do you know the value of all the land claims by all the indigenous/ Inuit people in Canada. one trillion is not going to cover it... but hey, we could raise carbon taxes, 50.00 a liter, they get their money and we would be better of in regards to climate change...

Are you sure you don't work for the finance minister.

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, Nexii said:

Should Canada be bound to treaties signed before we were even a nation? I'm not so sure.

Exactly.

It also becomes impossible to logistically track someone from something done generations ago. 

As a country, one should refuse to pay anyone who isn't a direct survivor of these atrocities. 

IE a living victim, or the direct heir. 

Hand outs have literally destroyed that community. They feel entitled to money so much, they don't want to pull their own community out from the rubble.

Sooner or later, enough should be enough. 

No Canadian born here, should have to face any shame for what was done to these people. 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, herbie said:

Why should "I" have to pay?

That is a fair question. Why should I have to pay for descendants of those who have faced atrocities?

Canada should only be on the hook for direct survivors or their immediate heirs.

Having "stolen their land" before Canada was even formed, is hogwash.

It's forced victimhood and shaming, that will never be satisfied.

[herbie]

Or maybe we could apply the same rules you're promoting and say that Alberta has no right to the resources on their territory. Or Ontario has no basis to refuse a permit to a pipeline? Issue fishing licenses for Nfld cod only to people from Regina as only they have the proper WHMS and Res Seal qualifications?

Shaddup and get to the table. Enough is enough already.

[Army Guy]

2 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Exactly.

It also becomes impossible to logistically track someone from something done generations ago. 

As a country, one should refuse to pay anyone who isn't a direct survivor of these atrocities. 

IE a living victim, or the direct heir. 

Hand outs have literally destroyed that community. They feel entitled to money so much, they don't want to pull their own community out from the rubble.

Sooner or later, enough should be enough. 

No Canadian born here, should have to face any shame for what was done to these people. 

I agree with most of what you say when it comes to treaties. 

But we have our own sins to atone for when looking at indigenous people but lets not forget the last residential school closed in 1989...

List of Indian residential schools in Canada - Wikipedia

maybe it is time to abolish our reserve system, along with these treaties and welcome them as ordinary Canadians.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Nexii said:

It's a shame no party has the spine to end the system.

Thankfully we and especially the First Nations have the SCC to keep it going until the need for negotiations or rulings finally passes. Something I doubt very much will happen in our lifetimes but it will happen.

For the time being it's good that we have an institution that, amongst other things, is dedicated to impartiality to settle issues other institutions are responsible for. This way there's no axe to grind that's laden with personalities or feeling. Just wheels within wheels.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Nexii said:

Fun fact: apartheid in South Africa was inspired by Canada's system

So is Israel's system, something Amnesty International regards as being an oppressive cruel system of domination.

Maybe someday Canada's system of acknowledgement and reconciliation will inspire people.

We used to have that kind of faith in ourselves.

[Nexii]

Just now, eyeball said:

So is Israel's system, something Amnesty International regards as being an oppressive cruel system of domination.

Maybe someday Canada's system of acknowledgement and reconciliation will inspire people.

We used to have that kind of faith in ourselves.

It would have to start with re-writing the Constitution. We might be coming due in the next decade or two, a lot's changed since the last Constitution.

You can't have multiple 'classes' of people and also proclaim to be a democracy that uploads civil rights and liberties for all. 

[ExFlyer]

16 hours ago, eyeball said:

No, it's more like they're trying to collect the rent from tenants who are refusing to pay.

You're looking at the situation backwards.

Nope, not at all. They lost.

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Nope, not at all. They lost.

You have formal declarations of war and documentation of their surrender?

[blackbird]

On 9/22/2023 at 10:18 AM, Michael Hardner said:

I would like someone to acknowledge that indeed they lost a lot. 

Where have you been.  There have been apologies issued repeatedly.  Billions of dollars has been paid out under various programs.  Compensations even to FNs for the so-called "60s scoop", which was actually provincial social services taking neglected FN kids and abused kids into foster care.  But now Canada has been ordered to pay billions for that one.  Not to mention the present compensation being paid to FNs who attended day school.  Payouts for housing, water systems, and millions for signing treaties and land compensations.  The list would be endless.  Yet you say nobody has acknowledge anything?  Again, where have you been? 

Turtle Island was created for the use of mankind, not just one race or ethnic group who happened to land here first and occupied only small parts of the land but now claim ownership of it all and demand endless compensation for colonizing by white man.

Edited September 24, 2023 by blackbird

[eyeball]

33 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Turtle Island was created for the use of mankind, not just one race or ethnic group who happened to land here first

Can you prove that in court?

[blackbird]

4 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Can you prove that in court?

The evidence is there.  Everyone has to decide themselves what to believe.

1.  The evidence of history proves all countries were settled by people migrating to them from other places.  That is the story of how mankind settled the earth.  Sometimes one group settled first in one country or region and then a different group moved in and became the dominant people.  Nobody had anything to prove they had perpetual ownership.  That is an invention by some who are trying to make claims for compensation.

2.  God's written revelation makes it clear man was to subdue and occupy the whole earth.  The only people that were given perpetual ownership of a land were the Jews in the case of Israel because of the fact God chose them for a special purpose in history.  Jesus Christ, the Savior of mankind, was a Jew.  Nobody else was given the same kind of ownership of land.

"1  And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth."  Genesis 9:1 KJV     Noah and his sons are the ancestors of everyone alive on earth now.  So the whole earth was given to mankind.  Aboriginals have no special or perpetual claim on the vast lands they are scattered on.  

So yes, it can be shown in court that their claim is bogus.

[eyeball]

5 minutes ago, blackbird said:

The evidence is there.  Everyone has to decide themselves what to believe.

No, that's not how the supreme court works 

 

6 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Yes, it can be shown in court that their claim is bogus

On the basis you're offering? Good luck with that.

 

[ExFlyer]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

You have formal declarations of war and documentation of their surrender?

Nope but when they got run over, they were done. They capitulated to what was upon them.

No resistance or overtaken without much resistance means you lost your rights.

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Can you prove that in court?

Can they prove anything in court except that they gave up?

Lets be realistic, any group in society that has contributed nothing to the society for the past several hundred years, deserves nothing in return.

Edited September 24, 2023 by ExFlyer

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

They capitulated...

You got that in writing?

[ExFlyer]

24 minutes ago, eyeball said:

You got that in writing?

Writing???  The indigenous do not write, they orally tell their stories so their is posuive way of verifying or validating anything coming u of them.

Open our eyes and look where they live. Certainly not with the majority of Canadians that re working, earning a living, paying for their services, paying taxes etc etc etc.

Not living on reserves for free, taking everything for free and getting someone else to maintain their infrastructure and making their life bearable for free..

Those are a peoples that have capitulated.

[eyeball]

35 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Those are a peoples that have capitulated.

Well, if you're on the government's legal team first Nations will have it made in the shade.?

[ExFlyer]

11 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Well, if you're on the government's legal team first Nations will have it made in the shade.?

I am not on  anyones legal team. I am an observer and have observed .

Clearly you live in a gated community and never leave LOL   Find a reserve and smell the filth.

Go to the Ministery of Indigenous Services and look at their books to see how that one department alone spend your money on the indigenous. Then realize that every department in government that also to give to them.

You seem to be a do-gooder with no clue of what is really happening.

[blackbird]

4 hours ago, eyeball said:

On the basis you're offering? Good luck with that.

I just gave you a couple of basics.  I am sure there are massive amounts of evidence from past cases and negotiations to show this particular claim is bogus.  A 100 billion for what?  How about if they start supporting themselves and demonstrate they are productive citizens for a change.

Edited September 24, 2023 by blackbird

[eyeball]

50 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Clearly you live in a gated community and never leave LOL   Find a reserve and smell the filth.

I've lived next door to a First Nation's village for half a century now. I was a volunteer on their fire dept for several years.  

51 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

You seem to be a do-gooder with no clue of what is really happening.

And you sound immensely full of yourself.

The wishful memes you keep throwing at acknowledgment, reconciliation and treaties didn't stick any better 50 years ago than they do now.

57 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

I am an observer and have observed .

From my perspective your head is up your ass which probably explains the filth you mentioned.

[Michael Hardner]

4 minutes ago, eyeball said:

 

The wishful memes you keep throwing at acknowledgment, reconciliation and treaties didn't stick any better 50 years ago than they do now.

It's weird because people seem to know about how bad the federal government is at getting things done.  But they also don't seem to empathize with folks who have to depend on them.

[eyeball]

56 minutes ago, blackbird said:

I just gave you a couple of basics.  I am sure there are massive amounts of evidence from past cases and negotiations to show this particular claim is bogus.

If it's evidence that's based on the same fairy tales you keep throwing at this issue it will carry zero weight in a court of law.

Your case has less of a chance than a snowball in hell does. It's even worse than the case ExFlyers trying to make.

[eyeball]

11 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

It's weird because people seem to know about how bad the federal government is at getting things done.  But they also don't seem to empathize with folks who have to depend on them.

It's not as weird as their belief they have it all figured out. As I've said before with things like climate change and COVID, these people should be submitting their observations and evidence to the proper authorities and save everyone an enormous amount of time, effort and money trying to figure it out themselves.

As always they should expect nothing less than being buried under a pile of panties and having schools named in their honour if they're right.

[blackbird]

48 minutes ago, eyeball said:

If it's evidence that's based on the same fairy tales you keep throwing at this issue it will carry zero weight in a court of law.

Your case has less of a chance than a snowball in hell does. It's even worse than the case ExFlyers trying to make.

No, my points are completely valid.  Our system of justice historically evolved from Judeo-Christianity and many of our laws are based on that.  Your feeling of closeness to ExFlyer is obviously because you are liberal who bows and bends the knee to liberal ideology.  It means you constantly pander and think Canadians are guilty of everything that happened in past generations and think we should pay and pay for it forever.  Well, if you want to pay, go ahead and pay them yourself.  But stay away from everyone else' hard-earned money and property.