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Is Trudeau going to drive up the price of food further or cause shortages?


blackbird

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Trudeau and his government are planning to meet with the major food chain representatives next week and pressure them to reduce or hold prices with the threat of taxes or other actions.  This completely ignores that the food prices are determined by many factor in the supply chain such as the farmers, wholesalers, transportation companies, etc.  It is not as simple as the Liberals seem to be trying to make it out to be.  I am concerned that their meddling with the major retail chains could trigger serious damage to the whole food supply system.

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If the five largest grocery chains — Loblaw, Metro, Empire, Walmart and Costco — don’t come up with a plan to get prices under control by Thanksgiving, the government “will take further action,” Trudeau threatened. “We are not ruling anything out, including tax measures.”

It is notable that these threats are not being levied at businesses further down the supply chain, such as truck drivers, food processors and farmers, all of which are experiencing higher costs of doing business, and in turn passing those costs on down the line. The grocery stores are obviously the most visible. Singling them out as the cause of inflation is performative in the typical Liberal way."

Carson Jerema: Here come the Trudeau food shortages (msn.com)

Liberals have cozied with the Socialist NDP which of course are all in favour of controlling big companies.  This may be affecting their thinking.   Yet it is government policies, taxation, carbon taxes, etc. that have helped drive the price of food up.  They are starting to think like Communists within a Capitalist system.  Government cannot mix Communism or state control of food prices within a Capitalist system without dangerous consequences that are presently unforeseen such as food shortages on the shelves.  Major grocery chains hold a lot of power and may not take kindly to government intervention in how they run their business which is very complicated and involves many other companies within the supply chain.  I think we should be very concerned when politicians start serious meddling with the Capitalist system that brought the west its prosperity to begin with.  We could end up like Cuba with serious shortages of all kinds of things.

 

 

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Just now, blackbird said:

“will take further action,”

Probably shaming, and taxes. Fear mongering to the masses, if they push back. Calling them terrorists, if they question his leadership. 

2 minutes ago, blackbird said:

It is notable that these threats are not being levied at businesses further down the supply chain, such as truck drivers

He's learned his lesson.

Best to pick on those at the top, that make for better press, and who have a lot more to lose.

Pick on a farmer, and they'll probably blockade the parliament, and rain cow manure down on buildings with some of their agricultural machines.

I remember a delivery driver I know who turned out in front of the wrong farm. A man walked up and loaded his shot gun, before asking him what he was doing there.

They're a different breed.

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4 hours ago, herbie said:

That you believe Trudeau actually can do either sure shows....

That that was the best rebuttal you could come up with sure shows.... you're an !diot as always :) 

Trudeau absolutely can and has driven up the price of food, and it would be no effort to do so again,

and shortages of specific foods would be quite easy.

And that's probably what's going to come of this.  The stores will do something to appease him, shut down less profitable locations and reduce stock to more profitable items, and if he taxes them raise prices again. It's predictable

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On 9/16/2023 at 3:28 AM, CdnFox said:

That that was the best rebuttal you could come up with sure shows.... you're an !diot as always :) 

Trudeau absolutely can and has driven up the price of food, and it would be no effort to do so again,

and shortages of specific foods would be quite easy.

And that's probably what's going to come of this.  The stores will do something to appease him, shut down less profitable locations and reduce stock to more profitable items, and if he taxes them raise prices again. It's predictable

Lets be realistic. Grocery chains are a profit making business. They earn for their shareholders.

Things like carbon taxes are a significant reason prices are higher as the carbon taxes affect every little thing along the supply chain from buying seeds to harvesting the crops to delivery of the products.

Not sure where Trudeau thinks the high prices are originating but if he thinks buying Canadian is the answer, he is very wrong. Canadian produce and products are exponentially higher cost than imported products. Go to "farmers markets" and buy things, you will pay 20, 30 or. more % higher than in grocery stores.

If you are asking grocery store chains to reduce costs and profits, dream on.

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2 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Lets be realistic. Grocery chains are a profit making business. They earn for their shareholders.

For sure - and here's the thing:  trudeau has had his people studying this all year, and all his people agree that the grocery stores are telling the absolute truth - their markup is between 3 and 4 percent on groceries.  That's it.  Some of them are doing much better on their clothing and makeup, like the 'joe fresh' line of clothes that superstore sells which has a huge mark up thanks to slave labour which we're not talking about  ( :) )   but actual groceries are a thin margin.

 

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Things like carbon taxes are a significant reason prices are higher as the carbon taxes affect every little thing along the supply chain from buying seeds to harvesting the crops to delivery of the products.

Sure. It's a cumulative or stacking tax - which means it gets built into people's mark up.  So the farmer pays it THEN charges mark up on it to the next guy who pays it And the mark up AND then marks all that up for the next guy and so on. It's a significant cost factor (but not the only one of course)


 

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Not sure where Trudeau thinks the high prices are originating but if he thinks buying Canadian is the answer, he is very wrong. Canadian produce and products are exponentially higher cost than imported products. Go to "farmers markets" and buy things, you will pay 20, 30 or. more % higher than in grocery stores.

If you are asking grocery store chains to reduce costs and profits, dream on.

 

Well they can't. There is not much mark up on food at the grocery store level.  Most of it happens before then and much of it is just the costs involved.

 

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20 hours ago, CdnFox said:

For sure - and here's the thing:  trudeau has had his people studying this all year, and all his people agree that the grocery stores are telling the absolute truth - their markup is between 3 and 4 percent on groceries.  That's it.  Some of them are doing much better on their clothing and makeup, like the 'joe fresh' line of clothes that superstore sells which has a huge mark up thanks to slave labour which we're not talking about  ( :) )   but actual groceries are a thin margin.

 

Sure. It's a cumulative or stacking tax - which means it gets built into people's mark up.  So the farmer pays it THEN charges mark up on it to the next guy who pays it And the mark up AND then marks all that up for the next guy and so on. It's a significant cost factor (but not the only one of course)


 

Well they can't. There is not much mark up on food at the grocery store level.  Most of it happens before then and much of it is just the costs involved.

 

They did prove they are making money... as you say, form things other than groceries.

The cumulative carbon tax issue drives up prices too as every step from seed to on the shelf add to the cost. Thing is though, those costs are business expenses. We, the consumer do not get to write off the taxes...oh wait, we get a couple hundred back every summer LOL.

Lastly, what folks forget is we do not grow or supply a lot in Canada. I would hazard a guess and say over the course of a year, we import 80% of our food from across the world. Production and processing costs have gone up astronomically there too (olive oil is up 150%) and add our carbon taxes to that.

So, to say, food costs are not a government or grocery store problem, they are a world problem

 

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3 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

They did prove they are making money... as you say, form things other than groceries.

The cumulative carbon tax issue drives up prices too as every step from seed to on the shelf add to the cost. Thing is though, those costs are business expenses. We, the consumer do not get to write off the taxes...oh wait, we get a couple hundred back every summer LOL.

 

Snicker :) 
 

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Lastly, what folks forget is we do not grow or supply a lot in Canada. I would hazard a guess and say over the course of a year, we import 80% of our food from across the world. Production and processing costs have gone up astronomically there too (olive oil is up 150%) and add our carbon taxes to that.

So, to say, food costs are not a government or grocery store problem, they are a world problem

 

I was curious about that after you said it, but it turned out to be a little more difficult than i thought to get a clear picture of that.

First off - we DO produce a LOT.  But it would seem that we tend to sell it to other places, and we do so in it's raw form rather than as value added goods.

Looking at some of these numbers i would say your guess of 80 percent is high, but there's no doubt that the actual percent is going to be substantial.

https://www.fcc-fac.ca/en/knowledge/economics/2022-food-industry-report.html

So, at the end of the day it's still a gov't problem and certainly affected by global forces - even where we do grow enough of our own food we tend to sell it to the highest bidder outside of canada and then buy products from others

Interestingly - the grocery items that are going up the fastest are ones we tend to make here. Beef, chicken etc

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1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

Snicker :) 
 

I was curious about that after you said it, but it turned out to be a little more difficult than i thought to get a clear picture of that.

First off - we DO produce a LOT.  But it would seem that we tend to sell it to other places, and we do so in it's raw form rather than as value added goods.

Looking at some of these numbers i would say your guess of 80 percent is high, but there's no doubt that the actual percent is going to be substantial.

https://www.fcc-fac.ca/en/knowledge/economics/2022-food-industry-report.html

So, at the end of the day it's still a gov't problem and certainly affected by global forces - even where we do grow enough of our own food we tend to sell it to the highest bidder outside of canada and then buy products from others

Interestingly - the grocery items that are going up the fastest are ones we tend to make here. Beef, chicken etc

In my experience, I see local produce (and meats) much higher priced than imported and do they sell to the highest bidder at lower prices they sell to us because they want to keep the export market open?

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41 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

In my experience, I see local produce (and meats) much higher priced than imported and do they sell to the highest bidder at lower prices they sell to us because they want to keep the export market open?

I honestly don't know the answer to that.  Which is odd considering i know everything as everyone is aware (nyuck nyuck nyuck).   It's a curious question I'll have to read up on that more.

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