What would the USA look like if the American Revolution never happened

[Queenmandy85]

I've been reading Tories: Fighting For the King in America's First Civil War, by Thomas B. Allen. It got me wondering what would America be like if the Whigs managed to negotiate with the Government in England and avoid war.

My thought is the the War of 1812 in America would not have occured, avoiding the American colonies first military defeat. Lord Durham's report would have dealt with lingering issues between London and the Americans and the Statute of Westminster would have recognized the US independence, just as it did for Australia, Canada and New Zealand. At that point, if they so desired, the Americans would have become a republic, complete with the Constitution and Bill of Rights. In other words, the USA would be the same as it is now. They would have avoided the trama of the Civil War and its 800,000 deaths, since slavery would have been effectively abolished 25 years earlier.

The upheaval of the American Revolution had no positive impact on how things turned out.

Canada, on the other hand, would have been quite different without the flood of American Conservatives fleeing the terrorism levied upon them by the gangs of Sons of Liberty roaming the colonies burning and pillaging.

[NYLefty]

Might have been better?

[Moonlight Graham]

They would have taken it in the rear-end from a foreign Parliament for hundreds of more years like we did.

[robosmith]

2 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

I've been reading Tories: Fighting For the King in America's First Civil War, by Thomas B. Allen. It got me wondering what would America be like if the Whigs managed to negotiate with the Government in England and avoid war.

My thought is the the War of 1812 in America would not have occured, avoiding the American colonies first military defeat. Lord Durham's report would have dealt with lingering issues between London and the Americans and the Statute of Westminster would have recognized the US independence, just as it did for Australia, Canada and New Zealand. At that point, if they so desired, the Americans would have become a republic, complete with the Constitution and Bill of Rights. In other words, the USA would be the same as it is now. They would have avoided the trama of the Civil War and its 800,000 deaths, since slavery would have been effectively abolished 25 years earlier.

The upheaval of the American Revolution had no positive impact on how things turned out.

Canada, on the other hand, would have been quite different without the flood of American Conservatives fleeing the terrorism levied upon them by the gangs of Sons of Liberty roaming the colonies burning and pillaging.

No reason to believe that the Southern states would have taken abolition any better from the British than from the US government. Maybe they would have fought Britain to keep slavery instead of fellow colonies.

[Aristides]

 

Probably a peaceful transition to independence and a parliamentary government.

But maybe a bunch of independent states rather than a single country.

Edited September 11, 2023 by Aristides

[Rebound]

4 hours ago, robosmith said:

No reason to believe that the Southern states would have taken abolition any better from the British than from the US government. Maybe they would have fought Britain to keep slavery instead of fellow colonies.

Maybe slavery is the reason why the southern colonies supported the Revolutionary War.  I don’t know if any historian has ever considered this. 

[Hodad]

Ugh. We'd be speaking proper English!

[Deluge]

20 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

I've been reading Tories: Fighting For the King in America's First Civil War, by Thomas B. Allen. It got me wondering what would America be like if the Whigs managed to negotiate with the Government in England and avoid war.

We would've been just another commonwealth of England.

My question is, would England have had enough in it to fight off the enemies of WWI and WWII? 

[Rebound]

9 minutes ago, Deluge said:

We would've been just another commonwealth of England.

My question is, would England have had enough in it to fight off the enemies of WWI and WWII? 

England didn’t wait for America in either war.  

[Deluge]

5 minutes ago, Rebound said:

England didn’t wait for America in either war.  

England wouldn't have HAD America in either war - not in the same capacity. The US would've been an equivalent to Canada or Australia in both wars. 

Are you trying to tell me that England with just its commonwealth countries would've added enough to win both world wars?  

Edited September 12, 2023 by Deluge

[Rebound]

45 minutes ago, Deluge said:

England wouldn't have HAD America in either war - not in the same capacity. The US would've been an equivalent to Canada or Australia in both wars. 

Are you trying to tell me that England with just its commonwealth countries would've added enough to win both world wars?  

Who can possibly imagine? 
For instance, President Jefferson bought the Louisiana Territory from France, which King Louis used to finance war against England. So that wouldn’t have happened, obviously. 
 

England banned slavery in the 1830’s. The slaveholding states would not have tolerated this and history shows it would have lead to war. Impossible to say where that would have lead.  

[Deluge]

14 minutes ago, Rebound said:

Who can possibly imagine?

I can.

Imagine either world war where the US looks like Australia. REMEMBER: The US is a commonwealth of GB, so it is like Canada or Australia.

1st Question: who had greater impact on the world wars, the US (as it actually is) or Australia? 

2nd Question: Could the allies have won either world war without Australia? 

3rd Question: Could the allies have won either world war WITHOUT the US (as it actually is)? 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Deluge

[Hodad]

I actually think the legal implications are probably the least important aspect. I think the cultural impact would have been far greater. England was very much at the time (and in some ways is still) locked into a kind of caste or class system. There was little encouragement or opportunity for one to rise above the station of one's birth. There was something radical and inspirational about the American ideal that all people were created equal and entitled to pursue life, liberty, property and happiness. 

That cultural shift, rather than the legal separation, is what built America into a superpower. Wide open spaces and ample natural resources didn't hurt, but the lure of a classless society and open opportunity was the fuel of westward expansion, industrialization and innovation. Suddenly, we had a blank slate and people made the most of their opportunity to leave a mark.

That change alone may have shifted the outcomes of world wars, economic and cultural hegemony, etc.

[Deluge]

18 hours ago, Aristides said:

 

Probably a peaceful transition to independence and a parliamentary government.

But maybe a bunch of independent states rather than a single country.

It would've been a commonwealth akin to Canada or Australia. 

 

[Deluge]

1 minute ago, Hodad said:

I actually think the legal implications are probably the least important aspect. I think the cultural impact would have been far greater. England was very much at the time (and in some ways is still) locked into a kind of caste or class system. There was little encouragement or opportunity for one to rise above the station of one's birth. There was something radical and inspirational about the American ideal that all people were created equal and entitled to pursue life, liberty, property and happiness. 

That cultural shift, rather than the legal separation, is what built America into a superpower. Wide open spaces and ample natural resources didn't hurt, but the lure of a classless society and open opportunity was the fuel of westward expansion, industrialization and innovation. Suddenly, we had a blank slate and people made the most of their opportunity to leave a mark.

That change alone may have shifted the outcomes of world wars, economic and cultural hegemony, etc.

This is the most rational thought from you that I've seen. 

Nicely put. 

[Aristides]

8 minutes ago, Deluge said:

I can.

Imagine either world war where the US looks like Australia. REMEMBER: The US is a commonwealth of GB, so it is like Canada or Australia.

1st Question: who had greater impact on the world wars, the US (as it actually is) or Australia? 

2nd Question: Could the allies have won either world war without Australia? 

3rd Question: Could the allies have won either world war WITHOUT the US (as it actually is)? 

WW1 would have likely ended in stalemate and a negotiated peace, not a Versailles treaty that guaranteed WW2.

Churchill maintained that US entering WW1 was a big negative because of that.

[Rebound]

29 minutes ago, Deluge said:

I can.

Imagine either world war where the US looks like Australia. REMEMBER: The US is a commonwealth of GB, so it is like Canada or Australia.

1st Question: who had greater impact on the world wars, the US or Australia? 

2nd Question: Could the allies have won either world war without Australia? 

3rd Question: Could the allies have won either world war WITHOUT the US? 

There is a massive butterfly effect in the scenario of America never fighting the Revolutionary War. You can’t isolate one single thing and pretend no other events. 
 

Roosevelt brought US victory over Japan and a Germany faster than Bush’s Iraq and Afghan Wars. Faster than the Vietnam War.  He was launching a new warship every week.  So there was more to victory than US entry alone.  I think if we had a guy like Coolidge or Hoover, WW II would have been a decade-plus war of attrition.  We never had a President like Roosevelt, before or since.  
 

WW I was a very different story.  The US entered very late and didn’t have nearly the impact.  The Allies probably would have won without the US.  

[Deluge]

22 minutes ago, Rebound said:

There is a massive butterfly effect in the scenario of America never fighting the Revolutionary War. You can’t isolate one single thing and pretend no other events. 

What sparked my interest in the first place is one of you cultists suggesting that the US would've been better off WITHOUT the Revolutionary War. 

This, of course, is pacifistic bullshit, as America would never have become the leading world power and chief influencer of our time without the Revolutionary War. I get that you defeatists hate being associated with stuff like that as you long for the US to become the newest banana republic.

Tyrants and dictators are what you want, and true Americans aren't having any of it.  

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Deluge

[Rebound]

8 minutes ago, Deluge said:

What sparked my interest in the first place is one of you cultists suggesting that the US would've been better off WITHOUT the Revolutionary War. 

This, of course, is pacifistic bullshit, as America would never have become the leading world power and chief influencer of our time without the Revolutionary War. I get that you defeatists hate being associated with stuff like that as you long for the US to become the newest banana republic.

Tyrants and dictators are what you want, and true Americans aren't having any of it.  

 

I thank the Good Lord that true Americans are not like you.  
 

You want a “strong America” that gives you the freedom and liberty to discriminate against others.  You believe in democracy only if you get your way.  Other people’s opinions don’t matter to you. What you really want is freedom for yourself at the expense of others, because you are selfish and un-Christian. It’s sociopathic.  

Edited September 12, 2023 by Rebound

[Deluge]

4 minutes ago, Rebound said:

I thank the Good Lord that true Americans are not like you.  

You're a communist in American's clothing.

And the Good Lord has nothing to do with your side - ever. 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Deluge

[Deluge]

16 minutes ago, Rebound said:

1. You want a “strong America” that gives you the freedom and liberty to discriminate against others.  

2. You believe in democracy only if you get your way.  

3. Other people’s opinions don’t matter to you. What you really want is freedom for yourself at the expense of others, because you are selfish and un-Christian. It’s sociopathic.  

1. You want a weak America that lets weaklings like you put words in strong patriots mouths, like me. The only discrimination this country is seeing now is against white male conservatives. 

2. "Democracy" is two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner. I believe in a Constitutional Republic. THAT is what gives us ALL the SAME rights. 

3. That's YOUR side. All you really want is for your pet special interest groups to get everything they want FIRST; then, and ONLY then, can the rest of the nation talk about their own rights. 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Deluge

[robosmith]

1 hour ago, Deluge said:

What sparked my interest in the first place is one of you cultists suggesting that the US would've been better off WITHOUT the Revolutionary War. 

This, of course, is pacifistic bullshit, as America would never have become the leading world power and chief influencer of our time without the Revolutionary War. I get that you defeatists hate being associated with stuff like that as you long for the US to become the newest banana republic.

Tyrants and dictators are what you want, and true Americans aren't having any of it.  

 

Tyrants and dictators is what the MAGA CULT wants.

Prima facie evidence is them and you backing Trump's attempt to overthrow the election results. ?

And your DENIAL is never going to change those FACTS which will be presented IN COURT.

And already were presented before the Select Jan 6th Congressional hearings as SWORN TESTIMONY.

[robosmith]

1 hour ago, Deluge said:

You're a communist in American's clothing.

And the Good Lord has nothing to do with your side - ever. 

Your "good lord" is YOUR IMAGINATION, nothing more.

And you prove that by your completely uncivil behavior HERE.

[Deluge]

8 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Tyrants and dictators is what the MAGA CULT wants.

Prima facie evidence is them and you backing Trump's attempt to overthrow the election results. ?

And your DENIAL is never going to change those FACTS which will be presented IN COURT.

And already were presented before the Select Jan 6th Congressional hearings as SWORN TESTIMONY.

There is no MAGA cult. There's just me rubbing freedom in your communist face.

The election was rigged, and proof is starting to come out. 

Presented in banana court, which doesn't count. Once Trump gets back into office he'll set your swamp on fire and we'll have a bbq to celebrate.

Already presented as sworn bullshit. You woketards are about finished, and we can thank God for that. 

[Deluge]

12 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Your "good lord" is YOUR IMAGINATION, nothing more.

And you prove that by your completely uncivil behavior HERE.

The good Lord is the reason you climate whores are in such angst. I'd repent if I were you.

Leftist's don't deserve civility. You deserve hostility and ONLY hostility all day every day for the rest of your godforsaken lives.