Proud Boy Enrique Tarrio Gets 22 Years

[WestCanMan]

5 minutes ago, Rebound said:

True, the actual attacking is rebellion or insurrection. US Federal Law states that the people who attacked the US Capitol on January 6 were “insurrectionists.”  
 

I suppose that’s why the crime of sedition is called “seditious conspiracy,” and it carries a longer prison sentence than insurrection or rebellion.  

And that's why mobs aren't inherently "seditious". No one with any idea of the difference between sedition and insurrection would ever look at a mob and say "That's a seditious mob". 

On CNN they were aware that they were supposed to use a shiny new word and they just used it incorrectly, thereby tipping their hand. 

Do you believe:

- (like Robo) that there was never going to be an attack on the capitol until Trump said it, or

- was it pre-planned, and the OK's and PB's were aware of it, but somehow the FBI/CIA/Homeland Security/NSA, etc were completely unaware of it? 

In the first instance, Tarrio didn't really commit sedition because there was no plan, in the second, the alphabet cops are literally the biggest failure in the world because knuckle-dragging trolls were able to outsmart them to the extent that "they almost toppled America's democracy" ?

Forgive me pointing out that the narratives contradict each other to a ridiculous extent. 

[WestCanMan]

7 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Not going to address any of ^this until you provide PROOF for your ^gish gallop of unsubstantiated CLAIMS.

Claims?

Are you honestly still calling the things I wrote above 'claims'?

Everything that I wrote above is very easily proven.

FYI referring to those things as 'claims' is an acknowledgement that you were unaware of them, which means that the whole time you've been here opining on this topic you didn't even have the foggiest clue of what happened. Nothing that I wrote was insignificant to the point where you shouldn't have been aware of it this late in the game. 

Which of the above things would you like clarification on, dummy?

[Hodad]

2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

No one ever said that people can't be guilty of more than one thing on the same day, that's just your own intellectual failing/straw-man argument.

For the purpose of combining those words into a single 'term' though, they actually are mutually exclusive because it's a silly combination, like judicious mob or adaptive mob. You can look at a mob of people and say that they're angry, drunk, violent, etc, but an actual mob never really looks 'seditious'. If they are acting seditiously it means that their main intent is to coax other people into doing something, not really attacking. Do you get it? They'd basically be cheerleaders at that point, not a dangerous, violent mob that's in the act of attacking a gov't building.

In order for a serious case of sedition to be made against Trump then ideally that would result in an attack of some sort, so CNN should have described them as "a violent mob", and then the case would later be made that "they were acting out violently against the gov't because of.... [the president's seditious words and deeds]".  

They actually tipped their hand on CNN when they said "seditious mobs" because they pretended to see something that is never evident to the eye. If it was then they would have described the mobs that attacked the WH while Trump was president as "seditious", and they steered well clear of that. 

 

Yeah, I get it, sedition is the shiny, new word of the day for leftards and you feel cool when you say it, but you're using it incorrectly. 

I'm not here to change the definition of the word 'sedition' like you guys did with 'vaccine', I'm just the messenger. You guys instantly out yourselves as f-tards when you say "I saw a seditious mob".

I've never seen a mob that wasn't trying to recruit new members. This particular mob was full of people egging one another on to insurrection. This mob was full of people who were demonstrably engaged in sedition, on the streets, on social media, on videos taken that day. It was full of people shouting about 1776, and taking back the country and killing Mike Pence and Nancy Pelosi.

Not all mobs are seditious, but because the target was the US legislature, this one surely was.

Sorry, you still can't manage to catch on. Enjoy obsessing about this phrase for several more years and spam posting it here.

[WestCanMan]

On 9/6/2023 at 10:25 AM, West said:

It's totally irrational this guy was convicted and is just more propaganda bullshit from the leftist crazies

Leftards here are saying that "There was no plan to attack the capitol until Trump "DEMANDED IT" during his speech, but at the same time they're saying that the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers all had a big plot, weapons caches, etc.

Leftards (including one really stupid judge) are also saying that the US gov't was "almost overthrown". 

It's impossible for the first two to both to be true, so they're obviously lying about something, and if it's the second one, that makes the FBI/CIA/NSA, etc completely useless, because two small groups of unarmed trolls should never have been able to "almost overthrow the gov't". 

[WestCanMan]

5 minutes ago, Hodad said:

I've never seen a mob that wasn't trying to recruit new members. This particular mob was full of people egging one another on to insurrection. This mob was full of people who were demonstrably engaged in sedition,

Wrong.

"Demonstrably involved in sedition" means that you caught them plotting, instructing, planning details, encouraging, etc. Full stop. 

If there was a video of Tarrio and his 'captains' conspiring to do this, and telling their adherents what to do and when to do it, that would be "demonstrably seditious". 

People with weapons running up to a gov't building to attack it are not "demonstrably involved in sedition". They are "demonstrably involved in an insurrection/rebellion/etc". If they engaged in sedition it would have happened before they attacked. 

BLMers who attacked federal buildings and a Seattle police station were insurrectionists. If it was pre-planned, the act of planning it and getting other people to carry out the plan was sedition. 

Quote

§2384. Seditious conspiracy

If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

 

[CdnFox]

4 hours ago, robosmith said:

I KNEW you COULD NOT POINT TO IT, LIAR!

Still .... posting... on....the.. wrong.... thread.

It's posted on the right thread - go look and stop derailing this thread. You're really not coming across as very smart if you can't even tell what thread you're posting in  

[Hodad]

13 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Wrong.

"Demonstrably involved in sedition" means that you caught them plotting, instructing, planning details, encouraging, etc. Full stop. 

If there was a video of Tarrio and his 'captains' conspiring to do this, and telling their adherents what to do and when to do it, that would be "demonstrably seditious". 

People with weapons running up to a gov't building to attack it are not "demonstrably involved in sedition". They are "demonstrably involved in an insurrection/rebellion/etc". If they engaged in sedition it would have happened before they attacked. 

BLMers who attacked federal buildings and a Seattle police station were insurrectionists. If it was pre-planned, the act of planning it and getting other people to carry out the plan was sedition. 

 

Notice how you posted a definition of "seditious conspiracy" rather than "sedition" or "seditious"?

Go look up the latter and get back to me. (This will no doubt result in you searching dictionary after dictionary for some way to salvage your argument.)

Someone goading his neighbor toward overthrowing the government is indeed seditious.

Edited September 8, 2023 by Hodad

[robosmith]

7 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

And that's why mobs aren't inherently "seditious". No one with any idea of the difference between sedition and insurrection would ever look at a mob and say "That's a seditious mob". 

On CNN they were aware that they were supposed to use a shiny new word and they just used it incorrectly, thereby tipping their hand. 

Do you believe:

- (like Robo) that there was never going to be an attack on the capitol until Trump said it, or

- was it pre-planned, and the OK's and PB's were aware of it, but somehow the FBI/CIA/Homeland Security/NSA, etc were completely unaware of it? 

In the first instance, Tarrio didn't really commit sedition because there was no plan, in the second, the alphabet cops are literally the biggest failure in the world because knuckle-dragging trolls were able to outsmart them to the extent that "they almost toppled America's democracy" ?

Forgive me pointing out that the narratives contradict each other to a ridiculous extent. 

It was PREPLANNED by Trump and HIS CRONIES.

Planning was done by PB AND OK, but it was Trump who GAVE THEM THE SIGNAL to DO IT. Duh

The two are NOT mutually exclusive. Preparation was CONTINGENT, like the ELECTION they were ILLEGALLY trying to FORCE. 

[WestCanMan]

16 hours ago, Hodad said:

Notice how you posted a definition of "seditious conspiracy" rather than "sedition" or "seditious"?

Go look up the latter and get back to me. (This will no doubt result in you searching dictionary after dictionary for some way to salvage your argument.)

Are you trying to say that "seditious conspiracy" and sedition are entirely different things now? Sorry, but you're just stupid. 

1) Planning an attack on the capitol and convincing people to aid in it is an example of sedition.

1A) He was involved in a seditious conspiracy - he planned an attack on the capitol and convincing people to aid in it. 

1B) Planning an attack on the capitol and convincing people to aid in it is the epitome of seditious behaviour. 

Where's the glaring difference, Hodad? 

Quote

Someone goading his neighbor toward overthrowing the government is indeed seditious.

Now you're talking about people miles away from the act, convincing other people to aid in it - you finally got one right.

FYI when 3 groups of people are all attacking a building together, yelling back and forth to each other, it's not sedition at all, because they're all already attacking. It's all just part of the act of insurrection. 

If there was a group of people at the protest who weren't interested in rioting to begin with, and a hostile group managed to get them to tag along, that would be 'sedition', but that's a really weak case which requires proof that you'll likely never get, so it's not worth arguing when you already have a slam dunk on an insurrection charge. 

Ray Epps is the only glaring example of someone committing sedition at DC.

He was the guy who was 1) telling people that they needed to gain entry into the capitol, 2) where and when to do it 3) he brought people to the place where they needed to attack and then 4) gave them instructions when they were there at the barricades (in the photo below). Then he effed off and didn't engage in any hostilities.

FYI he'd still be guilty of sedition if he engaged in the hostilities himself, but that would be in addition to his new charges for attacking the building (insurrection/rebellion). 

The easiest charge to get on someone (like Epps) at the almost entirely peaceful and joyous celebration of democracy was insurrection because there's video of them in this case, so going after a sedition charge is definitely a remote Plan B for the vast majority of them. Epps is the main exception because he overtly engaged in sedition and then stayed well away from the actual attack. The only thing they could get him on is sedition, which he is plainly guilty of. 

Leaders of gangs who were there were also worth going after for sedition, because it's a hefty charge, and in their case can likely be proven. 

[Rebound]

21 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Leftards here are saying that "There was no plan to attack the capitol until Trump "DEMANDED IT" during his speech, but at the same time they're saying that the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers all had a big plot, weapons caches, etc.

Leftards (including one really stupid judge) are also saying that the US gov't was "almost overthrown". 

It's impossible for the first two to both to be true, so they're obviously lying about something, and if it's the second one, that makes the FBI/CIA/NSA, etc completely useless, because two small groups of unarmed trolls should never have been able to "almost overthrow the gov't". 

I do not believe anyone on the left has suggested that the January 6 insurrection was spontaneous. In fact, there is a mountain of evidence that it was planned, and the January 6 Committee presented it. 
 

Trump organized the Stop the Steal Rally.  He told his followers to come and he told other groups which were planning January 20 events to move their date to January 6.  
 

In this case of Tarrio, there was documented evidence that he repeatedly stated that he organized his people to the the “tip of the spear” of the attack on he Capitol and they would goad others to join them.  
 

The fake electors scheme has been documented and is the subject of three separate legal prosecutions.  The conspiracy was to assign these electors for Trump and have Pence and the Congress do one of two things: First, accept the Trump electors instead of the Biden electors and Second, send the results from Michigan, Georgia, PA and Arizona back to those states with instructions for their Legislatures to choose between the two sets of electors.  Part of the scheme also revolved on the notion that Federal Law requires a decision only on January 6, and so by disrupting this event until January 7, a Constitutional crisis would have ensured.  
 

And here’s the thing about Ray Epps: He’s one of you MAGA people. So if you want to toss one of your own under the bus and eat your young, that’s on you.  What do we care?  Sad that you treat your own people that way, and sadder still that you think this one guy somehow by himself cajoled that enormous attack, but whatever. Maybe it will be you next time. Wouldn’t that be hilarious? 

Edited September 8, 2023 by Rebound

[WestCanMan]

13 hours ago, robosmith said:

It was PREPLANNED by Trump and HIS CRONIES.

Or was it a case of:  

Quote

the mob only headed to the Capitol and invaded it AFTER Trump demanded that they do that on Jan 6th

as you claimed previously?

Quote

Planning was done by PB AND OK, but it was Trump who GAVE THEM THE SIGNAL to DO IT. Duh

Now it was "on Trump's signal" and not "because he demanded it on Jan 6th". Got it.

Is that your final answer, you weaselly little turd, or are you going to backtrack again? 

Quote

The two are NOT mutually exclusive. Preparation was CONTINGENT, like the ELECTION they were ILLEGALLY trying to FORCE. 

I guess time will tell if the FBI can alter enough emails to get a conviction on Trump... ?

[CdnFox]

13 hours ago, robosmith said:

It was PREPLANNED by Trump and HIS CRONIES.

No proof of that.

Quote

Planning was done by PB AND OK, but it was Trump who GAVE THEM THE SIGNAL to DO IT. Duh

NO proof of that

Quote

The two are NOT mutually exclusive.

Sure they are.

 

SWISH! - you lose!  

[impartialobserver]

From what I have read about this... It does seem like the punishment does not fit the crime. 

[Hodad]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

Are you trying to say that "seditious conspiracy" and sedition are entirely different things now? Sorry, but you're just stupid. 

OFFS, yes, you twit. Of course they are two different things. That's why "sedition" is one word and "seditious conspiracy" is two words. The latter has a noun (conspiracy) that is described by an adjective (seditious). You seem to think that sedition REQUIRES a conspiracy. That's simply not the case. Sedition exists on its own as a noun just fine. Someone can be engaged in sedition. It could be used an adjective to describe many nouns. Seditious rant. Seditious literature. Seditious conspiracy. Seditious mob. 

This is how the English language works. Save yourself further embarrassment and look up the definition of sedition. (The speaking or writing of words that are likely to incite ordinary people to public disorder or insurrection.) Then decide whether you really want to keep arguing that the mob wasn't seditious. (You shouldn't. It's an asinine argument.)

[Rebound]

1 hour ago, impartialobserver said:

From what I have read about this... It does seem like the punishment does not fit the crime. 

Wow, that’s genius!

”From what I have read…”. Which is what???

The part where he planned the attack with the members of his group? The part where they planned to the the “tip of the spear” on Jan 6? The part where he said on Jan 7 that “this was all us” and “we need to start planning the next one.”?  Or the part where he was an absolute jackass throughout his entire trial, insulting the judge, the law, the government, and basically thumbing his nose at the whole thing until he showed up with his tail between his legs begging the judge for mercy at his sentencing hearing?  

[Rebound]

1 hour ago, impartialobserver said:

From what I have read about this... It does seem like the punishment does not fit the crime. 

Wow, that’s genius!

”From what I have read…”. Which is what???

The part where he planned the attack with the members of his group? The part where they planned to the the “tip of the spear” on Jan 6? The part where he said on Jan 7 that “this was all us” and “we need to start planning the next one.”?  Or the part where he was an absolute jackass throughout his entire trial, insulting the judge, the law, the government, and basically thumbing his nose at the whole thing until he showed up with his tail between his legs begging the judge for mercy at his sentencing hearing?  

[Rebound]

1 hour ago, impartialobserver said:

From what I have read about this... It does seem like the punishment does not fit the crime. 

”From what I have read…”. Which is what???

The part where he planned the attack with the members of his group? The part where they planned to the the “tip of the spear” on Jan 6? The part where he said on Jan 7 that “this was all us” and “we need to start planning the next one.”?  Or the part where he was an absolute jackass throughout his entire trial, insulting the judge, the law, the government, and basically thumbing his nose at the whole thing until he showed up with his tail between his legs begging the judge for mercy at his sentencing hearing?  

[Michael Hardner]

53 minutes ago, Rebound said:

The part where he planned the attack with the members of his group?  

They came close to plunging the US into a constitutional crisis, the judge said... if they don't take this seriously, it will happen again...

[WestCanMan]

3 hours ago, Rebound said:

I do not believe anyone on the left has suggested that the January 6 insurrection was spontaneous. In fact, there is a mountain of evidence that it was planned, and the January 6 Committee presented it. 

1) Read Robo's posts. If he was a conservative here he'd be like the retarded cousin, but he fits right in with you lot. He seems to think that the teensy portion of the crowd that got unruly at the almost entirely peaceful and joyous celebration of democracy only did so because Trump demanded it. 

2) Like I said before, if there was a mountain of evidence that it was pre-planned then:

-why didn't the CIA/FBI/NSA figure this out in advance? Were they all outsmarted by the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers? The FBI has been investigating those guys since the Russian collusion farce. 

-how did those bumpkins "come very close to overthrowing the gov't"? 

-why wasn't there sufficient protection at the capitol to prevent them from getting in? Does this look like the best that the USA can muster?

Daaaanng. We might have enough posters here to overthrow the US Gov't. 

Quote

And here’s the thing about Ray Epps: He’s one of you MAGA people.

Simmer down you God-damned racist. You're not allowed to say "you people" anymore.

Don't blame me, you people set that standard.

Quote

So if you want to toss one of your own under the bus and eat your young, that’s on you.  

Epps is an FBI plant. It's ridiculous to believe otherwise. 

Quote

sadder still that you think this one guy somehow by himself cajoled that enormous attack,

You really are stupid if you think that Ray Epps is solely responsible for all of the unruliness at the almost entirely peaceful and joyous celebration of democracy.

I have no idea where you got that idea from, CNN certainly didn't tell you that. Are you even allowed to think that? 

[Guest]

On 9/5/2023 at 7:28 PM, Rebound said:

“I ask you that you not take my 40s from me.”

Tell me you have absolutely no remorse for your actions, without saying you have no remorse for your actions....

They literally should have thrown the book at him, then sentenced him to 22 years.

[Hodad]

6 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Tell me you have absolutely no remorse for your actions, without saying you have no remorse for your actions....

They literally should have thrown the book at him, then sentenced him to 22 years.

He (and many others) was contrite in the day of sentencing, but no other day. Can't blame a guy for trying though?

[Rebound]

2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

1) Read Robo's posts. If he was a conservative here he'd be like the retarded cousin, but he fits right in with you lot. He seems to think that the teensy portion of the crowd that got unruly at the almost entirely peaceful and joyous celebration of democracy only did so because Trump demanded it. 

2) Like I said before, if there was a mountain of evidence that it was pre-planned then:

-why didn't the CIA/FBI/NSA figure this out in advance? Were they all outsmarted by the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers? The FBI has been investigating those guys since the Russian collusion farce. 

-how did those bumpkins "come very close to overthrowing the gov't"? 

-why wasn't there sufficient protection at the capitol to prevent them from getting in? Does this look like the best that the USA can muster?

Daaaanng. We might have enough posters here to overthrow the US Gov't. 

Simmer down you God-damned racist. You're not allowed to say "you people" anymore.

Don't blame me, you people set that standard.

Epps is an FBI plant. It's ridiculous to believe otherwise. 

You really are stupid if you think that Ray Epps is solely responsible for all of the unruliness at the almost entirely peaceful and joyous celebration of democracy.

I have no idea where you got that idea from, CNN certainly didn't tell you that. Are you even allowed to think that? 

What drug are you addicted to that warps your thinking like that?  

[CdnFox]

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

They came close to plunging the US into a constitutional crisis, the judge said... if they don't take this seriously, it will happen again...

They never came even remotely close to anything of the kind. There was no way that ended in anything other than biden as president.

I know those on the left have tried to paint it as ' the day democracy almost died" - because a very small group of unarmed people entered a building - but it simply is complete fantasy.

There was never going to be a crisis, there was no chance of trump remaining president, this was at best going to be a protest.  Nobody seriously expects to overthrow a major country unarmed with a handful of people.

[WestCanMan]

2 hours ago, Rebound said:

What drug are you addicted to that warps your thinking like that?  

Reality. You should try it. 

[Caswell Thomas]

"... 22 years...".  Well, you get what you are...A racketeer, a violent criminal who needs to be in federal.prison, just like his pal Trump and his criminal organization, who deserve the same. One hopes the associates of this long time career criminal, who will say anything, do anything to stay out of prison until he can find a way to skip town and flee the country with as much money as he can grift from foolish people who still believe that the Pyramids were built by Aliens from another world because they are so small minded and uneducated as to believe that no humans have, on this planet, ever in history  achieved the education equivalent to conceive, plan, and build such imposing structures from their own minds, but must have all been just as stupid as they are as people by choice and therefore could not have done it.  These are the same people who insist that they must have the ability to buy automatic rifles " to hunt" for food when any sane hunter knows that if you can't hit a duck at 100 yards with a couple of shots from a single shot rifle firing into a flock of ducks, then you don't belong out there, because you are too dangerous to be allowed to buy anything that fires more rounds than that in a single burst muchless keep an arsenal of them with enough ammo to man a war time pill box by yourself.  These are the kind of people Trump hires by his promises of pardons for any who support him....think about it, do really want these people holding any office? Deciding things for your safety and your family, your children?