Canada can build more homes without 'getting rid of Greenbelts', Poilievre says

[CdnFox]

https://beta.ctvnews.ca/local/ottawa/2023/8/24/1_6532895.html

And he's right -  if we do it correctly.

So what can we do? He's touched on some of it.

When you look at why we are not building enough homes right now it boils down to essentially two issues: it is too lengthy and expensive a process to get through the development permits and red tape and our financial infrastructure is such that it actually discourages developers from building homes as fast as we need them. It is much less expensive to build homes after we need them.

Pierre addresses the first problem nicely, giving strong incentives to cities and municipalities and provinces to cut the red tape and make things happen faster. So that will address that problem.

The second problem is going to take a little bit more work but is easy to solve. Example we already have a program to sell 6000 government buildings that are no longer necessary and convert them to housing. There is no incentive for developers to buy those Buildings. They might as well build anywhere else and if they do buy the building there's no incentive for them to start converting it to day.

Now imagine if APP led government were to tell developers you can commit to purchasing it today, build in it and sell it, and then give us the money after the fact provided that the building starts immediately. Now they have real incentive to **** that property up and build they're not paying their own money or borrowing from the bank to buy the property so it is much less discouraging for them to build ahead of need. And because they don't have to pay for the property until the home sells they don't need to worry about whether or not all of the units are sold upon completion.

 

It's tiny differences like that which will make all the difference between whether or not we get enough homes or we don't. And Trudeau just doesn't understand this

[Zeitgeist]

It’s so easy to solve the housing crisis that the government should be sued for its neglect.

If all industrial and commercial lands, abandoned or dormant, were allowed to be zoned residential, with a very simple environmental assessment and plan for septic, water, and electricity, hundreds of thousands of homes could be built overnight.  Mini and modular homes range in price from $50,000 to $300,000.  A studio condo in Toronto starts at around $450,000.  If unused land was serviced by cities and paid for by users through a lease, not unlike a condo or trailer park fee, the housing supply would skyrocket.

I also think that all levels of government should focus on building transportation links to settlements far away from major centres and support settlement and business development in these areas where land is a quarter of the price of our largest cities.  This is all so obvious that governments should be sued for their incompetence.

[Moonbox]

Part of the problem is also that it’s been very lucrative to own housing for investment.  I have clients who are worth millions in liquid assets now but never had more than $100k of income between the two of them on account of how much easy money they made in the last decade in real estate.  He’s an electrician and she was a laundry worker.  
 

Booming real estate helped homeowners and they were a big demographic.  Now that Gen Z and the millennials are a bigger part of the electorate and can’t afford housing, it’s suddenly a priority for Trudeau.  
 

I strangely agree with Zeitgeist on this one.  It’s almost criminal how badly our governments have handled housing.  

[I am Groot]

Or here's an idea. Let's radically cut back on temporary foreign workers except in the agricultural industry. Let's radically cut back foreign students, and let's cut immigration. Suddenly, we'd have well over a million fewer people here and all those cheap apartments could be used by Canadians.

[Dougie93]

Monsieur Poiilevre continues to speak on my behalf

there is no cause to pave the greenbelts

many cities could become as dense as Manhattan before one tree need be felled, one farmers field plowed

fully detached homes will remain at a premium in any case

prices are not going to drop on those, no matter how many McMansions are built

quite the opposite, the fully detached McMansions are the most expensive options of all

[I am Groot]

Just now, Dougie93 said:

Monsieur Poiilevre continues to speak on my behalf

there is no cause to pave the greenbelts

Trudeau wants to almost triple our population. The Century Initiative plan he has adopted will put over 33 million people into the GTA, where the population is currently about 8 million. Ottawa's 1 million population is to grow to 4 million. If we're going to put all those people into our cities those cities have to grow out, not just up.

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, I am Groot said:

Trudeau wants to almost triple our population. The Century Initiative plan he has adopted will put over 33 million people into the GTA, where the population is currently about 8 million. Ottawa's 1 million population is to grow to 4 million. If we're going to put all those people into our cities those cities have to grow out, not just up.

but Canada is so expensive that the young can no longer afford to marry

and even if married, cannot afford to replace the population

as the population contracts, the economy contracts

so we are trapped

the immigrants are being imported to prop up growth

otherwise the debt based economy will implode into a depression

[Dougie93]

14 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Or here's an idea. Let's radically cut back on temporary foreign workers except in the agricultural industry. Let's radically cut back foreign students, and let's cut immigration. Suddenly, we'd have well over a million fewer people here and all those cheap apartments could be used by Canadians.

but Canadians are not going to work in the fields for the wages paid to foreign workers

so all you would do by cutting that off is incite is a supply chain crisis in agriculture

because none of these Canadian farms could stay in business trying to compete with Canadian corporate wages

Canadians are too highly educated to be farm hands,

there's literally no Canadians who could afford to even work that job

you could get paid twice as much just to drive a forklift

Edited August 26, 2023 by Dougie93

[I am Groot]

12 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Trudeau wants to almost triple our population. The Century Initiative plan he has adopted will put over 33 million people into the GTA, where the population is currently about 8 million. Ottawa's 1 million population is to grow to 4 million. If we're going to put all those people into our cities those cities have to grow out, not just up.

Let me suggest an alternative. Slash temporary workers, foreign students and immigrants. Presto, housing prices plummet! The Bank of Canada no longer has to keep raising rates but can lower them instead, spurring more investment and profits for business! Businesses that can no longer count on cheap foreign labour have to raise their wages and benefits! With the fall in housing prices and increased wages more young people can afford a proper place to live and then have kids.

2 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

but Canadians are not going to work in the fields for the wages paid to foreign workers

so all you would do by cutting that off is incite is a supply chain crisis in agriculture

"Or here's an idea. Let's radically cut back on temporary foreign workers except in the agricultural industry." 

You missed this part...

Edited August 26, 2023 by I am Groot

[Dougie93]

2 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Let me suggest an alternative. Slash temporary workers, foreign students and immigrants. Presto, housing prices plummet! The Bank of Canada no longer has to keep raising rates but can lower them instead, spurring more investment and profits for business! Businesses that can no longer count on cheap foreign labour have to raise their wages and benefits! With the fall in housing prices and increased wages more young people can afford a proper place to live and then have kids.

"Or here's an idea. Let's radically cut back on temporary foreign workers except in the agricultural industry." 

You missed this part...

I honestly would turn all decisions over to the likes of you

I honestly would not quarrel with you

my role is to defend HM The King

so that you have the leeway to impose your agenda

because frankly, I am doing very well, I own the dream home on the dream property

I made it to the promised land, so I turn to other concerns

[I am Groot]

10 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

I honestly would turn all decisions over to the likes of you

I honestly would not quarrel with you

my role is to defend HM The King

so that you have the leeway to impose your agenda

Perhaps you could call Charles up and tell him to put me in charge here, and perhaps loan me the use of the Grenadier Guards to enforce my will.

[myata]

In a real democracy there would be a party supporting a simple law: government cannot bring in more immigration than there's infrastructure to support the population, current and projection for the year. A law. No cannot, whatever golf buddies who build their empires on cheap labor and absence of competition whisper. Then, the citizens would vote and votes would be counted accurately. I a real one, somewhere.

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, I am Groot said:

Perhaps you could call Charles up and tell him to put me in charge here, and perhaps loan me the use of the Grenadier Guards to enforce my will.

I simply defend the British Crown, Westminster Parliamentary Supremacy

the Supremacy of God and the rule of law therein, by the Constitution Act 1982

but I would surmise that 1st Battalion, Grenadier Guards;  is your people

if you walked into the Mess at Lille Barracks, Aldershot, Hampshire

quite sure you would receive a warm reception

Honi soit qui mal y pense

 

[Zeitgeist]

50 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Trudeau wants to almost triple our population. The Century Initiative plan he has adopted will put over 33 million people into the GTA, where the population is currently about 8 million. Ottawa's 1 million population is to grow to 4 million. If we're going to put all those people into our cities those cities have to grow out, not just up.

The levels of government need to radically deregulate housing development on brownfields.  There’s room for a million new residents in the Port Lands of Toronto.  This land shouldn’t simply be turned over to developers to sell more overpriced condos to rich new immigrants from Asia.  Stuffing 33 million people into the GTA will destroy Canadian quality of life.  Canada doesn’t exist for the sole purpose of providing resettlement for UN initiatives.

The smarter move is to focus development in smaller cities and towns beyond the GTA.  Rampant immigration is driving up housing costs, adding congestion, and since everyone in Canada is crammed into the south, we’re losing out best farmland and future food supply.

Canada for Canadians. 

[Zeitgeist]

57 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

but Canada is so expensive that the young can no longer afford to marry

and even if married, cannot afford to replace the population

as the population contracts, the economy contracts

so we are trapped

the immigrants are being imported to prop up growth

otherwise the debt based economy will implode into a depression

Policy should focus on making life more affordable for young people so Canadians can afford kids and those kids can replace retiring workers.

 The habitable part of Canada is relatively small if we want to sustain the Canadian Dream where home ownership and enough property for a garden and kids to play is possible.  I don’t know the magic number, but my bet is no more than about 80 million.

[Dougie93]

3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Policy should focus on making life more affordable for young people so Canadians can afford kids and those kids can replace retiring workers.

 The habitable part of Canada is relatively small if we want to sustain the Canadian Dream where home ownership and enough property for a garden and kids to play is possible.  I don’t know the magic number, but my bet is no more than about 80 million.

I leave policy to you

as I say, I am living the dream in real time, like a rapture

thoughtful men like you should make policy

as my attention is drawn away to the Saviour

the Nazarene comes to me now,  inviting me to put my affairs in order

it is all collapsing down to the local level with me

honour thy wife, honour thy neighbour, get right with the Lord

ignominious politics falls away in the face of the light over Damascus

Family, Faith, Freedom

God, King, Colours

I literally want for nothing, the stormy waters are parted in my path

but I trust your instincts, I know your righteousness, thus I defer to you in all concerns politic

[PIK]

Time to clean up our social net. I drive by a food bank with young able-bodied people in line ,when jobs are available. One factory has billboards up. Jobs starting at $21.80/hr with benefits. 

[Zeitgeist]

22 minutes ago, PIK said:

Time to clean up our social net. I drive by a food bank with young able-bodied people in line ,when jobs are available. One factory has billboards up. Jobs starting at $21.80/hr with benefits. 

Culturally we need to promote the capitalist worker/entrepreneur hero.  I always think of the Atlas Shrugged hero John Galt.  Kids need strong male and female role models who illustrate the importance of hard work, creativity, and self-determination.  Canada has been promoting the weak, state-dependent depressive under Trudeau.  The current assumption by our government about young people is that they’re caught somewhere between drug addiction and assisted suicide, waiting for the next rebate from the government, rewarding poverty.  Poverty of spirit always leads to actual poverty   Society must promote great fitness and health.  However, if hard work isn’t rewarded and pretty good money can’t even buy you a house, then it’s harder to find motivation.

 

 

[Dougie93]

24 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

  Poverty of spirit always leads to actual poverty  

here again is why I follow you

this is the most important thing

the road to Calvary is a power unto itself

feel good, do good, good tings happen, miraculous things

a Mountain at your back, a calming hand upon your shoulder

a guiding light to prosperity, property, the promised land

a dream girl, a dream home on a dream property

the God of the Hebrews is a vengeance Lord in the face of Pharaoh

but nothing will stop you on the banks of the Red Sea;  the waters do part for the righteous

salvation is not by acts, but by faith alone

[I am Groot]

3 hours ago, myata said:

In a real democracy there would be a party supporting a simple law: government cannot bring in more immigration than there's infrastructure to support the population, current and projection for the year. A law. No cannot, whatever golf buddies who build their empires on cheap labor and absence of competition whisper. Then, the citizens would vote and votes would be counted accurately. I a real one, somewhere.

If we had referendums on government policy initiatives how many would ever get passed? We don't get to vote on these things. We vote on a basket of stuff which is topped with gooey whipped cream and chocolate that is meant to convey how caring and understanding an individual party is. The Liberals have been good at the topping, and people have been herded into scooping it up out of fear the evil conservatives will take it away.

[I am Groot]

1 hour ago, PIK said:

Time to clean up our social net. I drive by a food bank with young able-bodied people in line ,when jobs are available. One factory has billboards up. Jobs starting at $21.80/hr with benefits. 

From what I hear of the food banks in this town very few of the people who go there are white. That's not a commentary on white supremacy or any garbage like that. But aside from natives few non-white people were born in Canada. How many of the people who go there are temporary foreign workers, foreign students, asylum seekers, or immigrants, all of whom have found a way to get free stuff?

[CdnFox]

5 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

It’s so easy to solve the housing crisis that the government should be sued for its neglect.

If all industrial and commercial lands, abandoned or dormant, were allowed to be zoned residential, with a very simple environmental assessment and plan for septic, water, and electricity, hundreds of thousands of homes could be built overnight.  Mini and modular homes range in price from $50,000 to $300,000.  A studio condo in Toronto starts at around $450,000.  If unused land was serviced by cities and paid for by users through a lease, not unlike a condo or trailer park fee, the housing supply would skyrocket.

I also think that all levels of government should focus on building transportation links to settlements far away from major centres and support settlement and business development in these areas where land is a quarter of the price of our largest cities.  This is all so obvious that governments should be sued for their incompetence.

Truth.  You would still need to incentivize the builders to build ahead of need but you'd solve a large hunk of the problem.

But - you touch on another thing that's huge - encouraging businesses and individuals to strongly support remote working opens up a HUGE amount of currenly low density areas that are far cheaper, and every family that moves out there  leaves another home available for rent or purchase in the city which takes a lot of pressure off.  That's something the CPC should be majorly gunning for.  It's environmentally friendly, it's lifestyle friendly, its' infrastructure friendly, it's expansion friendly - a win win win.

[CdnFox]

5 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Part of the problem is also that it’s been very lucrative to own housing for investment.  I have clients who are worth millions in liquid assets now but never had more than $100k of income between the two of them on account of how much easy money they made in the last decade in real estate.  He’s an electrician and she was a laundry worker.  
 

Booming real estate helped homeowners and they were a big demographic.  Now that Gen Z and the millennials are a bigger part of the electorate and can’t afford housing, it’s suddenly a priority for Trudeau.  
 

I strangely agree with Zeitgeist on this one.  It’s almost criminal how badly our governments have handled housing.  

You're on the right track with it being lucritive,  but there's a missing component.

The pricing increases are mainly driven by the developers in the sense that they control how much product is on the market.

Right now - it is ONLY lucritive for them at all if they build homes AFTER the need for those homes has risen.  In other words,  if we need 100 homes this year, they'll start building them at the end of the year and complete the next year - but by then we need ANOTHER 150 homes.  Which we won't get till the year after and so on and so on.

And the reason for this involves how banks finance, and how municipalities charge taxes on properties.

Until that changes - until there's incentive for a developer to build based on next year's 150 and start building ahead of need then nothing we do will fix this (other than start to have a reduction in population which would be bad)