Support for Meta, Google etc on news charges dispute

[myata]

For unknown years or centuries, news industry in the world worked this way: you ask for a permission to reprint a news item or article; or you refer to the news from another source, citing it and no cash involved.

Then, Trudeau's Liberals in their supreme and all-encompassing wisdom decided to change that. Like making everybody pay everybody would be a total nonsensical mess and they would be a laughing stock of the world. But, they figured, they could go after the big fish.

Maybe their buddies in the great Canadian quasi- pseudo- "independent"" media - as seen live in the past couple of years, inspired them for the courageous act? And now look who's screaming foul.

There cannot be not a slightest doubt that Meta, Instagram, Google etc are producers of media content on a scale greatly superior to the traditional media. Traditional media, if they seek attention of the consumers should promote their content in the social media platforms, not antagonize them. I have zero interest and tolerance to Liberal know better than yourself highhanded policies. It looks and smells more and more as clueless to the point of dumb; counterproductive; and self-serving way to govern. Good luck with the election campaign by the way. Hope Meta and Google will take note and give it a deserving thought.

[Michael Hardner]

Protectionism is something that I have seen supported on here, when framed as "protecting Canadian jobs", and media has been rightly regarded as needing special attention since the Massey Commission in the 1940s.

To my opinion, protection of borders means culture, jobs, and security.

[myata]

46 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

To my opinion, protection of borders means culture, jobs, and security.

How, effectiveness, intelligence, thinking and common sense matter too. Or should. Or you may end up not knowing what that is, whose pocket you were protecting.

Edited August 22, 2023 by myata

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, myata said:

How, effectiveness, intelligence, thinking and common sense matter too. Or should.  

Yes, that's fair.  There are many reasons the approach is not practical.

I wonder if Poilievre would do anything at all, likely not.

[herbie]

So let's have a couple billionaires tell the whole country what to do and when to do it.
I was on the fence until the scumbag blocked wildfire information sourced by anything other than gossip. It would've blocked legitimate Covid information too if tis appened 3 years ago.

F*ck them. If the CRTC saya support Canadian content on radio and TV we can do so on the Net too.

[myata]

30 minutes ago, herbie said:

If the CRTC saya support Canadian content on radio and TV we can do so on the Net too.

Yep. Go ahead and make you own 100% Canadian Beaverbook (that was free, enjoy) with Justine and others the main celebs. China does that why not.

30 minutes ago, herbie said:

So let's have a couple billionaires tell

Only it was kinda the other way around. Our great King in their supreme and unmatchable wisdom decided to assign some cute little dues and levies just because they felt right to do that. No thinking not required why? Guess what someone had the balls to say, nope (wow, it can happen?!). Not your luck today, prettysocks. What?

Edited August 22, 2023 by myata

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, myata said:

1. Go ahead and make you own 100% Canadian Beaverbook (that was free, enjoy) with Justine and others the main celebs. China does that why not.

2.  No thinking not required why?  

1. Ask yourself who the Americans allow to own media.  It's Americans.  
 

Quote

Murdoch, whose media operations frequently rail against immigration, became an American citizen in 1985, which allowed him to circumvent a law barring foreign nationals from owning more than 20% of a U.S. broadcasting license.

2.  Actually it was to get revenues back from the US Tech companies who decimated Canadian journalism I think.  I already posted on that and nobody has mustered a cogent reply yet, that I have seen anyway.

[CdnFox]

For sure it will be the end of Canadian culture if Canadians are able to post Canadian news on social media platforms without compensation.

Can you IMAGINE how fast we would implode if there was a way for Canadians to access copywrite material at NO CHARGE? Who would even CONSIDER something like that?

 

 

[ExFlyer]

3 hours ago, herbie said:

So let's have a couple billionaires tell the whole country what to do and when to do it.
I was on the fence until the scumbag blocked wildfire information sourced by anything other than gossip. It would've blocked legitimate Covid information too if tis appened 3 years ago.

F*ck them. If the CRTC saya support Canadian content on radio and TV we can do so on the Net too.

Meta and the others have been telling the government if they encact the legislation and make them pay if "news" is on their pages, this would happen. Now that they kept their word the governemtn is pissed.

Bottom line is this, Meta and the others are open social media. If you post a news link, it is not Metas fault, it is yours. Even the news outlets themselves had pages on social media. Now the government want social media to pay for what you post? Or what the news media itself posts? What BS is that??

The government is already supporting Canadian content, to the tune of at least $800 million just last year. I think that they should put a special tax on everyone in the country to support Canadian content, like the carbon tax. They can call it Media Tax.

What about making all foreign owned companies paying a special Canadian tax because they are selling their stuff to us here??

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Ask yourself who the Americans allow to own media.  It's Americans.  
 

2.  Actually it was to get revenues back from the US Tech companies who decimated Canadian journalism I think.  I already posted on that and nobody has mustered a cogent reply yet, that I have seen anyway.

C'mon Michael. We Canadians have sold our selves away for decades. This is not new.

The US tech companies are not the ones using and posting on Facebock, xxx , twit, or other social media. That is Canadians and Canadian Media. Why not bar Canadians form using social media???

[herbie]

For years Google has paid me a penny a click for links on my site that lead to theirs. Yet you seem to begrudge Meta and Google for a penny contribution to Cdn media.

F*ck them and your anti-Canadian attitudes. Lapdogs of American corporate interests.

[Aristides]

Whatever did we do for news before META? Oh ya. 

[Dougie93]

I haven't noticed

since I don't read the news

I only find out what is going on from this forum

[CdnFox]

49 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

C'mon Michael. We Canadians have sold our selves away for decades. This is not new.

The US tech companies are not the ones using and posting on Facebock, xxx , twit, or other social media. That is Canadians and Canadian Media. Why not bar Canadians form using social media???

And honestly that's not going to stop one way or another - the canadian (AND US) news sources need to adapt their model better to deal with the realities of the new media world.  It's like the town criers demanding that the guy who invented the printing press owes reparations for infringing on thier job prospects.  Tempora mutantur, nos et mutamur in illis.  We all have to change with the times

[Dougie93]

10 hours ago, myata said:

For unknown years or centuries, news industry in the world worked this way: you ask for a permission to reprint a news item or article; or you refer to the news from another source, citing it and no cash involved.

Then, Trudeau's Liberals in their supreme and all-encompassing wisdom decided to change that. Like making everybody pay everybody would be a total nonsensical mess and they would be a laughing stock of the world. But, they figured, they could go after the big fish.

Maybe their buddies in the great Canadian quasi- pseudo- "independent"" media - as seen live in the past couple of years, inspired them for the courageous act? And now look who's screaming foul.

the imbecilic Canadian government immiserates the Canadian population

then tries to play the victim of its own immiseration

[myata]

2 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

What BS is that??

Who needs to think here? Just do it! Yes we can!

[myata]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Actually it was to get revenues back from the US Tech companies who decimated Canadian journalism I think.

That's quite an arch of a logical connection.. how exactly did it work? CBC doesn't have to keep sites on Meta and Instagram. But if it chooses too, would someone have to pay them for the privilege? That's not exactly how the sane world works.

Edited August 23, 2023 by myata

[Michael Hardner]

11 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

1. C'mon Michael. We Canadians have sold our selves away for decades. This is not new.

2. The US tech companies are not the ones using and posting on Facebock, xxx , twit, or other social media. That is Canadians and Canadian Media. Why not bar Canadians form using social media???

1. What does that mean ?  Selling ourselves isn't the same as consuming American things.
2. They ARE those companies.  

This is about protecting Canadian media as was done by Mulroney in the FTA, as I said.

[Michael Hardner]

12 hours ago, CdnFox said:

 Can you IMAGINE how fast we would implode if there was a way for Canadians to access copywrite material at NO CHARGE? 

Yeah, but there is a charge... the ad money goes to Facebook and Canadian advertising companies and media outlets lose out.  

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. What does that mean ?  Selling ourselves isn't the same as consuming American things.
2. They ARE those companies.  

This is about protecting Canadian media as was done by Mulroney in the FTA, as I said.

Michael, Canadian media cannot save itself so, you think Meta and social media should pay to save the same media that are using social media??

Michael please, makes no sense. Making the platform pay government for something you freely use.

What if the government wanted re-politics to pay for every link and article you post?? Is that OK? You are saving the Canadian news media.

[Michael Hardner]

Just now, ExFlyer said:

1. Michael, Canadian media cannot save itself so, you think Meta and social media should pay to save the same media that are using social media??

2. Michael please, makes no sense. Making the platform pay government for something you freely use.

3. What if the government wanted re-politics to pay for every link and article you post?? Is that OK? You are saving the Canadian news media.

1. Assuming the net result being to keep $ in Canada and to keep sovereignty over our media ?  Yes.  Unfortunately that isn't how it's going to work out in all likelihood.   So I support the goal but not the means.

2. The government is paying the media though right ?  You know that our dominant conservative media channels are funded by the government right ?

3. If rePolitics is American, and poaching Canadian media $ through monopoly, not paying taxes etc. then you can see the impact of letting them waltz in and take over.

Here's an OP in the Globe and Mail about how American tech firms pay relatively nothing in Canada while onshore companies pay millions.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rob-commentary/what-facebook-and-google-dont-get-about-canadas-digital-tax-proposal/article34166694/

And if someone has a better way to protect Canadian media, jobs and revenues then I am not surprised but I DO want to hear it. Mr. Poilievre ?

 People seem to be put off when factory jobs go to China but when media and advertising jobs disappear and those jobs go to Facebook, Meta, Google, Twitter there's a kind of shrug...

[ExFlyer]

6 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Assuming the net result being to keep $ in Canada and to keep sovereignty over our media ?  Yes.  Unfortunately that isn't how it's going to work out in all likelihood.   So I support the goal but not the means.

2. The government is paying the media though right ?  You know that our dominant conservative media channels are funded by the government right ?

3. If rePolitics is American, and poaching Canadian media $ through monopoly, not paying taxes etc. then you can see the impact of letting them waltz in and take over.

Here's an OP in the Globe and Mail about how American tech firms pay relatively nothing in Canada while onshore companies pay millions.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rob-commentary/what-facebook-and-google-dont-get-about-canadas-digital-tax-proposal/article34166694/

And if someone has a better way to protect Canadian media, jobs and revenues then I am not surprised but I DO want to hear it. Mr. Poilievre ?

 People seem to be put off when factory jobs go to China but when media and advertising jobs disappear and those jobs go to Facebook, Meta, Google, Twitter there's a kind of shrug...

Bottom line Michael, we are not going to agree. I do not think social media should have to pay for what you post in it and never will.

If Canadian media cannot survive, I have no sympathy. TV media is owned by 2 (?) companies, newspapers are owned by 2(?) companies. If they had a product that people wanted, they would survive but clearly, the people of Canada do not like what is being offered. Why is social media made to pay for their failure? (on top of $800+ million already dumped on them by government).

My local news used to be local news , now it is 15 minutes of the hour on local and the rest is Toronto produced stuff. I cannot support them anymore and it ain't my fault.

[Michael Hardner]

30 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

 

1. If Canadian media cannot survive, I have no sympathy. TV media is owned by 2 (?) companies, newspapers are owned by 2(?) companies. If they had a product that people wanted, they would survive but clearly, the people of Canada do not like what is being offered. Why is social media made to pay for their failure? (on top of $800+ million already dumped on them by government).

My local news used to be local news , now it is 15 minutes of the hour on local and the rest is Toronto produced stuff. I cannot support them anymore and it ain't my fault.

1. All fair.  

Protectionism isn't your thing.  Got it.

I would appreciate it if you acknowledged that media isn't a commodity like any other.

[ExFlyer]

15 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. All fair.  

Protectionism isn't your thing.  Got it.

I would appreciate it if you acknowledged that media isn't a commodity like any other.

I agree, media may not be a commodity but, it is being sold and bought.

I do believe in protectionism but, it does not as far as making companies pay government for something the users do with the company product. Social media is not illegal.

[myata]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Yeah, but there is a charge... the ad money goes to Facebook and Canadian advertising companies and media outlets lose out.

OK, let's use an analogy:

You brought your stall and a poster to a free market place. Next, through your government buddies, we had seen how it works live, you make the market organizers to pay you for just being there? They didn't ask you to come, they have many, unlimited number of those who are happy to be there for free.. what does it look like? Spell Venezuela? Who cares what pretext you want to use, it just doesn't make any common sense.