Leftist brethren, if you would've known "sunny ways" would've meant struggling to make your mortgage payment, or purchase groceries due to Trudeau's policy, would you have voted for him still?

[ExFlyer]

13 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

the Canadian chain of command ordered them to do it

the Airborne Regiment was ordered to torture prisoners by their own commanders

 

2 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

none of that absolves the regime of its crimes

Nuremberg does not say ; only the Corporals are guilty

Exactly, and defending them and making excuses for them, as you did and are still doing,  is fruitless and wrong.

2 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

but the troops were illegally administered an experimental drug by the Government of Canada

which was known to cause hyper paranoia and hyper aggression

 

They tortured and murdered, and you are making excuses again. All soldiers were given the drug and only 2 became murderers.

Poor excuse.

2 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

I simply seek an explanation

as to why an elite formation of professional soldiers would all descend into madness at the same time

No one owes you an explanation for anything but there is a report somewhere and it identifies and blames the soldiers for their actions.

Also, it was only 2 soldiers, not an entire "elite formation of professional soldiers".

[Army Guy]

13 hours ago, eyeball said:

I get what you're saying, I'm just glad we keep our funding down so much we can't afford to send people into circumstances that could turn them into torturers and murderers.

We have troops in many hostile locations all though out the world...just becasue you don't hear about it in the media does not mean we don't have troops in combat...Our politicians like to send our troops into danger, they just don't like paying for the equipment they need...it is easier to bury Canadians than it is to equip them...

[Nexii]

Sunny ways Trudeau was likeable. But that ended around 2017 or so. He became increasingly narcissistic and preachy to the common voter. The trucker protest was just the culmination of all that. Listening to Trudeau these days is like being negged by someone into you

[Army Guy]

6 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

 

I get what you are saying.

The thing is though, the law is a the law.

The 2 individuals did wrong, very wrong and the constant defence and hero worship of them is equally as wrong, especially if claiming to be a christian.

The law is the law, when we are sitting down here discussing it.... In combat killing as many of the bad guys is the only objective, the rules governing this killing are all over the place I'm allow to kill them by any means nessicary, bullet, fire, chemicals, etc... but not beat or mistreat them once they surrender or become incapacitated... now do it long enough and things like beating a POW seems like a minor infraction.

One would have to ask this question in this situation , this beating and screaming went on for hours, and could be heard across most of the camp... many have already testified to that fact, why did not one person stop it....where was the SNR NCO corp, or the officer corp...They may have or did not give the order to have this kid beaten, , but the fact remains it happened , and not one member stopped it. it does not really matter if the order was given or not...any one hearing the screaming and chose to do nothing about it is guilty of condoning it...and should have been charged and released...

I wish it was as clear as we see it now, in combat those fine lines disappear until they are non existent...I'm sure every soldier that has been in prolonged combat has seen a war crime being committed, or sure as hell bent some rules themselves...

your survival depends on letting go all those things that you have been taught in the civilized world...like thou shall not kill, treat people with respect, etc.....unless sanctioned by our government then it is ok to shoot a Taliban with a 25mm canon, leaving behind shin bones and rubber sandals as his only remains, the rest turned to a pink mist......

99.9 % of the soldiers i knew that came back were not the same people as they were when they left.... each dealt with the horrors of war differently, for a fair percentage the troops could not deal with any of it and took their own lives, those that did mange to deal with it required some or a lot of head shrinking...Imigine these kids on a battle field, with the power of small gods to take life at will, and we want them to make reasonable decisions all the time... 

 

 

[CdnFox]

35 minutes ago, Nexii said:

Sunny ways Trudeau was likeable. But that ended around 2017 or so. He became increasingly narcissistic and preachy to the common voter. The trucker protest was just the culmination of all that. Listening to Trudeau these days is like being negged by someone into you

There's no doubt he's lost a lot of his charm. A bloodbath with women as much as men these days in the polls. But I think more than anything it's that his policies are leaving people hungry and broke and desperate and hopeless. And when people look at him they see a hopeless future and empty cupboards

[ExFlyer]

19 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

The law is the law, when we are sitting down here discussing it.... In combat killing as many of the bad guys is the only objective, the rules governing this killing are all over the place I'm allow to kill them by any means nessicary, bullet, fire, chemicals, etc... but not beat or mistreat them once they surrender or become incapacitated... now do it long enough and things like beating a POW seems like a minor infraction.

One would have to ask this question in this situation , this beating and screaming went on for hours, and could be heard across most of the camp... many have already testified to that fact, why did not one person stop it....where was the SNR NCO corp, or the officer corp...They may have or did not give the order to have this kid beaten, , but the fact remains it happened , and not one member stopped it. it does not really matter if the order was given or not...any one hearing the screaming and chose to do nothing about it is guilty of condoning it...and should have been charged and released...

I wish it was as clear as we see it now, in combat those fine lines disappear until they are non existent...I'm sure every soldier that has been in prolonged combat has seen a war crime being committed, or sure as hell bent some rules themselves...

your survival depends on letting go all those things that you have been taught in the civilized world...like thou shall not kill, treat people with respect, etc.....unless sanctioned by our government then it is ok to shoot a Taliban with a 25mm canon, leaving behind shin bones and rubber sandals as his only remains, the rest turned to a pink mist......

99.9 % of the soldiers i knew that came back were not the same people as they were when they left.... each dealt with the horrors of war differently, for a fair percentage the troops could not deal with any of it and took their own lives, those that did mange to deal with it required some or a lot of head shrinking...Imigine these kids on a battle field, with the power of small gods to take life at will, and we want them to make reasonable decisions all the time... 

 

 

Again, I get what you are saying.

My issue with this is not so much that is happened but that a self proclaimed converted christian deflect and defends and pretty well worships these two individuals.

99.9% of the soldiers went through the horrors of war and cam e back, and yes, some with issues, but none of those did what the 2 did.  They did not shoot the guy from a distance but brought him to their quarters and tortured and murdered.  Not sure how many think Matchee and Brown are heros and casualties of war.

Lets let dougie wallow in his mire and get back on topic.

Edited August 25, 2023 by ExFlyer

[eyeball]

15 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

I wish it was as clear as we see it now, in combat those fine lines disappear until they are non existent

And because this directly reflects on Canada you will never ever have my support for money, sympathy or pity.

 

[ExFlyer]

11 minutes ago, eyeball said:

And because this directly reflects on Canada you will never ever have my support for money, sympathy or pity.

 

Well, OK but, the good they do in aid to civil to civil power, like the support in evacuations as a result of wildfires, support in fighting the fire right now, every year supporting the flooded areas of the country and search and rescue and on and on and on???

Every case has a rotten apple and there were 2 in that case. All the others were honourable and served with dignity and made Canada proud.

 

[Army Guy]

12 minutes ago, eyeball said:

And because this directly reflects on Canada you will never ever have my support for money, sympathy or pity.

 

And yet you support the federal government in one form or another through your vote..., THEY are the ones that are responsible for sending our troops all across the globe...Your answer is so typically Canadian...lets just shoot the messager...and not look at the cause, or who is responsible ... Kind of like blaming the fishermen for the lack of fish and the turmoil that industry is in...

[eyeball]

6 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Well, OK but, the good they do in aid to civil to civil power, like the support in evacuations as a result of wildfires, support in fighting the fire right now, every year supporting the flooded areas of the country and search and rescue and on and on and on???

I'm all for having a dedicated full time well equipped service that can deal with emergencies. Sending it abroad to fight however is off the table.

As for deterring our invasion I have a long record of supporting the construction of a couple humongous dirty cobalt bombs.

Last man standing sets them off.

No one will ever invade us - other countries wouldn't stand for it.

[eyeball]

12 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

And yet you support the federal government in one form or another through your vote...,

Not when I vote none of the above. I don't want it's decisions on my conscience.

Edited August 25, 2023 by eyeball

[Dougie93]

3 hours ago, Army Guy said:

One would have to ask this question in this situation , this beating and screaming went on for hours, and could be heard across most of the camp... many have already testified to that fact, why did not one person stop it....where was the SNR NCO corp, or the officer corp...They may have or did not give the order to have this kid beaten, , but the fact remains it happened , and not one member stopped it. it does not really matter if the order was given or not...any one hearing the screaming and chose to do nothing about it is guilty of condoning it...and should have been charged and released...

they were all suffering the side effects of the Mefloquine to varying degrees

the decision making of the chain of command was totally irrational

why did they think they could get away with this ?

unlawful order to " to shoot between the skirts & flip flops " ; Hague Convention violation

unlawful order to " rough the prisoners up " ; Geneva Convention violation

then the activities are going on for weeks, with two homicides, Ahmed Aruush, then Shinane Arone

then they try to cover it all up by dumping the body at the aid station without reporting the murder ?

everybody knew you could end up doing hard time in Edmonton for any number of these unlawful activities

and nobody in the chain of command steps in and puts a stop to any of this ?

nobody was thinking straight

they were all hyper paranoid and hyper aggressive, exactly as the side effects of Mefloquine are described

I had a buddy with 2 Commando,

we both joined together at 17, we were on recruit, basic, infantry and ISCC together

so I knew him very well

he came back from Belet Huen on block leave, just days after the Shindane Arone murder

and he was not himself, he was acting as if he was drugged somehow

we took him out on the town in Toronto, out to the clubs

and he was hyper paranoid & hyper aggressive

we get into a taxi with a Somali cab driver, and my buddy just goes off right there

he starts talking to the cabbie in Somali, insulting him, threatening him

then he jumps out of the cab, gets lined up to drag the cabbie out of the car into the street

we had to intervene, pull him out of there, three of us dragging him away

we were all like ; wtf is wrong with him ? 

and he is telling us that shit is weird at Belet Huen,

something bad was going down,

but he wouldn't say what it was

they were living out of trenches in the desert eating IMP's for the first 90 days

they were basically abandoned out there, because DND lacked the logistics to support them

it has an humanitarian operation, yet they were on a hair trigger, expecting an attack at any moment

when the local Somali's started breaking into the camp to steal whatever they could get their hands on

like they were stealing Sony Walkman's and shit like that, personal effects

and they tried to steal diesel from the fuel bladder, and ended up puncturing it

the Commando starts to vastly overreact to this, treating it as if it is all out war

when in fact it was just local unarmed Somali's who posed little to no threat

certainly not a threat warranting military force to be employed against them

but actually deciding to start kidnapping local Somali's and torturing them as a mission ?

that decision was literally crazy, totally irrational

the chain of command itself was exhibiting hyper paranoid hyper aggressive behaviour

Shidane Arone was certainly the victim of a heinous crime

but it all starts with the crime committed by the government against the Airborne Regiment

using them as guinea pigs for the French pharmaceutical company Roche

testing Mefloquine on them, when it was not certified for use on humans

because it was known to cause psychosis ; hyper paranoia and hyper aggression

like what would I have done at Belet Huen ?

would I have stood up and bucked 2 Commando in the field on operations ?

at that age, just a Corporal ?

I don't think I would have

I would have been hiding in my rack, keeping my head down, just like everybody else was

if the CO, RSM, OC & CSM are all allowing this to happen ?

whom am I to take a stand against them ?

at the point where I was ordered to torture a prisoner

I would have said "nah, I ain't doing that, I'm out of here,  I don't even want to know what you are doing"

but I never would have taken that any further, I wouldn't have invoked the Geneva Convention

the rules were pretty simply in the JR's ; don't blade buddy, don't get caught, don't be a rat

doesn't matter what Nuremberg says

for a Corporal to defy the entire chain of command in the field on operations ?

that's not realistically going to happen

there are no bad soldiers, only bad leaders

ducimus

Edited August 25, 2023 by Dougie93

[Nefarious Banana]

Justin Trudeau was adored by the younger crowd and women . . .  now, eight years later, that younger crowd has come to realize that very many of them will never have a piece of the pie . . . never have a home, never get the good jobs, not afford to raise a family, pay larger and larger taxes. Boy, that's some bright future!  "Sunny ways my friend" has turned into a quagmire for them.  Maybe that's why those once young voters are looking around for a better deal . . .

Justin Trudeau's time has come, the damage to our country has been done . . . 

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

Not when I vote none of the above. I

Sure you do.  All you're doing there is abstaining - and abstaining still is a vote in our electoral and parliamentary system.  By choosing not to vote you are essentially giving all of them a vote, and saying I'll accept the decisions of others as being my own.

That's why abstaining is generally frowned upon.

Sorry kiddo - the gov't is still your responsibility.  It's just like if you see someone falling off a cliff and take no action amd let them fall you're just as guilty as if you pushed them.

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, Dougie93 said:

they were ...

at the point where I was ordered to torture a prisoner

I

What blather.

You are a phony...as a christian and as a soldier.

Stop before you dig your hole any deeper.

Edited August 25, 2023 by ExFlyer
spelling

[ExFlyer]

18 minutes ago, Nefarious Banana said:

Justin Trudeau was adored by the younger crowd and women . . .  now, eight years later, that younger crowd has come to realize that very many of them will never have a piece of the pie . . . never have a home, never get the good jobs, not afford to raise a family, pay larger and larger taxes. Boy, that's some bright future!  "Sunny ways my friend" has turned into a quagmire for them.  Maybe that's why those once young voters are looking around for a better deal . . .

Justin Trudeau's time has come, the damage to our country has been done . . . 

What is it with some of you???

No government has ever promised you can buy a house.. There is no entitlement to owning a house.

A good job is up to you, not the government. No government ever promised you a good job and no one ever said you are entitled to one.

You are what you are and you work for what you have or want to have.

Justin is not any more to blame for your situation than Harper, or any other liberal or conservative leader.

 

Edited August 25, 2023 by ExFlyer

[Dougie93]

28 minutes ago, Nefarious Banana said:

 the damage to our country has been done . . . 

it will never be the same

the young don't even know what it is was like to live free

[Dougie93]

20 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

What blather.

You are a phony...as a christian and as a soldier.

Stop before you dig your hole any deeper.

if anybody ever wants to come off the internet and take it up with me face to face

I welcome the opportunity

[CdnFox]

6 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

if anybody ever wants to come off the internet and take it up with me face to face

I welcome the opportunity

FIne - post your address then  

[Dougie93]

4 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

FIne - post your address then  

why don't we just meet at a bar ?

I'm not going to try to find out where you live,  I'm not trying to menace anybody

if you want to talk to me face to face, we can meet down in Toronto somewhere

 

[CdnFox]

2 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

why don't we just meet at a bar ?

I'm not going to try to find out where you live,  I'm not trying to menace anybody

if you want to talk to me face to face, we can meet down in Toronto somewhere

 

Then you don't show up.   Yeah - thought maybe you might be being a little bit of an 'internet tough guy' there.

I mean - you can't win a fight here, what chance would you have in the real world?

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, CdnFox said:

Then you don't show up.   Yeah - thought maybe you might be being a little bit of an 'internet tough guy' there.

I mean - you can't win a fight here, what chance would you have in the real world?

who said anything about a fight ?

I said if you wanted to meet me face to face

who would want to fight me over some posts on an internet forum ?

[CdnFox]

Just now, Dougie93 said:

who said anything about a fight ?

I did. Just now.  I said you can't win a fight here - what chance would you have in person.  I mean at least here you have time to think before you reply (whether you do or you don't) and you still come across looking like a bit of an !diot.
 

Quote

 

I said if you wanted to meet me face to face

who would want to fight me over some posts on an internet forum ?

 

oh... did you think i meant a physical fight?  Sorry, thought i was clear.  I certainly didn't mean to scare you like that.  Nobody would pick on you physically i'm sure. I may be a bit of a jerk but i'm no bully.

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, CdnFox said:

I did. Just now.  I said you can't win a fight here - what chance would you have in person. 

I don't come here to fight

that's actually prohibited by the rules of the forum

[CdnFox]

3 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

I don't come here to fight

that's actually prohibited by the rules of the forum

Sure kid.