The election prospects

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said:

So lets take one issue, housing, that PP has promised to fix and fix it now. How does he plan to do that? He says housing has doubled in price under the current government. How does he plan to correct that?

Wait - i thought you said you were worried about his plan. THen you said his plan is exactly the same as trudeau, we wouldn't see a difference.  Now you're saying you don't even know what his plan is?

So basically you've just been making shit up as you go.  Well.. you ARE a liberal after all. I guess it's your nature.

As to his plan we're not going to hear the details till the election. Why would you give justin a free blueprint to fix the problem?

But - he's been pretty clear that his approach will be to reduce demand temporarily, cut red tape and barriers to building, incentivize and pressure the provinces and municipalities to build much more quickly.  He can also incentivize developers in several ways.

And that will work if it's done correctly.   Which is far better than trudeau's plan since he promised to fix it in 2015 which has been nothing

 

Here's the thing. You're so used to the politicians you LIKE lying and ignoring problems that they promise to fix that you think EVERYONE is like that. But they're not.

THe housing crisis wouldn't go away entirely overnight - but there are real things that can be done to make it much better now and eliminate it over time. But they require work and logic - and justin has neither.

[Nefarious Banana]

Does anyone honestly believe that Canada can sustain yet another term of a Justin Trudeau Liberal government?

[myata]

32 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

the adults will handle this

Like two year old "adults" in little baby politics? Those same ones for whom counting above two is an impossible challenge? Keep it coming, funny.

[CdnFox]

43 minutes ago, myata said:

Like two year old "adults" in little baby politics?

Sure kid. Go get your cookie and your nap.

[myata]

4 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

get your cookie and your nap.

Turned on your election"" lullaby? Sounds so sweet, yes?

[CdnFox]

12 minutes ago, myata said:

Turned on your election"" lullaby? Sounds so sweet, yes?

Sure kid. Here's your blankie.

[myata]

3 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Here's your blankie.

Our good boy. And just think, never grows up!

[CdnFox]

2 minutes ago, myata said:

Our good boy. And just think, never grows up!

Oh look - your parents got access to your account Because they can!!!

Edited August 24, 2023 by CdnFox

[Queenmandy85]

Having been in cabinet previously, Mr. Poilievre understands that what he is demanding of the Prime Minister is unrealistic. He will come into office and sit down with his senior civil servants and run his plan by them. They will have been through all this before and know what actually works and what doesn't. They will point out that "red tape" is actually the regulations that protect the consumer from having their new home falling down around their ears due to shoddy workmanship. (Remember the leaky condos?)

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

But - he's been pretty clear that his approach will be to reduce demand temporarily, cut red tape and barriers to building, incentivize and pressure the provinces and municipalities to build much more quickly.  He can also incentivize developers in several ways.

We are short about 1.5 million homes. We are short thousands of trades peope to construct these homes. Overcoming that deficit will take decades and a trillion dollars. Consumers do not have that kind of money. The fact is, the government does not have a plan and, if Mr. Poilievre does, he is not sharing it. You say he is going to keep it a secret for the next two years while tens of thousands of people are living on the streets.

Does Mr. Poilievre not wonder why his ideas haven't been tried before? When my dad was a newly graduated engineer from UBC in 1929, he was hired by CM&S (Tek Cominco) in Trail. They sat him down and told him that they realized he knew more than they did, but they liked doing things their way. So, when you see something we are doing wrong, tell us, BUT DON'T TOUCH ANYTHING! 

My brother was hired by Cominco in 1968 and they gave him the same speech. Then, I was hired as a summer student in 1972, I got it too. It must be supremely frustrating for thenior civil servants that when all these new ministers come in knowing a lot more than the people who have been doing it for years, they can't give the same speech to them.

There are some issues that are very complex. Any action you take to solve a problem carries a lot of unforseen negative consequences. 

 

 

 

[ExFlyer]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Well don't worry - the adults will handle this and we'll tell you when it's safe for you to come out again.

Geez, the adults handled it for the past 3 elections LOL

[ExFlyer]

33 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Having been in cabinet previously, Mr. Poilievre understands that what he is demanding of the Prime Minister is unrealistic. He will come into office and sit down with his senior civil servants and run his plan by them. They will have been through all this before and know what actually works and what doesn't. They will point out that "red tape" is actually the regulations that protect the consumer from having their new home falling down around their ears due to shoddy workmanship. (Remember the leaky condos?)

We are short about 1.5 million homes. We are short thousands of trades peope to construct these homes. Overcoming that deficit will take decades and a trillion dollars. Consumers do not have that kind of money. The fact is, the government does not have a plan and, if Mr. Poilievre does, he is not sharing it. You say he is going to keep it a secret for the next two years while tens of thousands of people are living on the streets.

Does Mr. Poilievre not wonder why his ideas haven't been tried before? ......

There are some issues that are very complex. Any action you take to solve a problem carries a lot of unforseen negative consequences. 

 

 

 

I recently spent several weeks in Vancouver area.  Housing construction is going on everywhere. Thing is, houses are very expensive but, I figured out why. Almost all houses east of Vancouver proper is about 4000 or more sq feet. They are huge. they are within 6 inches of the lot lines front back and side to side. Many, if not most houses are 5+ bedrooms.

I think, to drive down housing prices, someone should incentivize building smaller homes. I raised my family in a 1500 sq ft home just nicely. And, now that we are empty nesters, we are thinking of downsizing.

PP should talk about that and how that may drive prices down and make housing affordable again.

The government (if you are talking about public servants) do not and will never have a plan. They are subservient to the elected officials and only do what they are told to do by the elected feds, provincial or municipal.

The "government", if you are talking about elected people, can not and will never dictate what is to be built as they will always favour the open market situation. If folks want to buy 5000 sq ft homes, that will be what is built. In Vancouver area, that is what is built and that is what sells. (regardless of down payment requirements and interest rates).

Edited August 24, 2023 by ExFlyer

[Queenmandy85]

Some of what you say comes under provincial and municipal jurisdiction. Other than that, it’s food for thought.

I think you underestimate the value of the advice of the senior civil service. 
I still have to wonder, if Poilievre‘S plan is workable, why hasn’t it been implemented before now?
 

Edited August 24, 2023 by Queenmandy85

[ExFlyer]

8 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Some of what you say comes under provincial and municipal jurisdiction. Other than that, it’s food for thought.

I think you underestimate the value of the advice of the senior civil service. 
I still have to wonder, if Poilievre‘S plan is workable, why hasn’t it been implemented before now?
 

No, I do not underestimate the senior bureaucrat advice, it is that they are not in the policy or plan development phase. They are told what the plan is and to make it work within existing regulations and laws. if it cannot, then that senior bureaucrat tells them they cannot or they have to change the laws or acts....and that happens all the time LOL

As an aside, many of those senior bureaucrats are political appointees from the outgoing party or political favours.

[CdnFox]

41 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Having been in cabinet previously, Mr. Poilievre understands that what he is demanding of the Prime Minister is unrealistic.

It is entirely 100 percent realistic.  Worse - most of it is also something Trudeau promised to do but failed.
 

Quote

He will come into office and sit down with his senior civil servants and run his plan by them

He will come into office and pass legislation enabling his direction and make changes.

This is simple.  It can include things like reducing immigration substantially which will have an immediate effect on rents and housing costs.  Unfortunately that will be fairly temporary but will give him time to do the rest

He can make all kinds of tax changes, defund the CBC - all of this is easy.

All you're trying to do is lie about it in order to protect your beloved liberals and Justin trudeau.

As i said - you'll probably get the opportunity to see the difference in a few years.  I'm 100 percent certain that you'll have some species of excuse for why it's so much different under PP, but you can burn that bridge when you cross it   

[ExFlyer]

16 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

It is entirely 100 percent realistic.  Worse - most of it is also something Trudeau promised to do but failed.
 

He will come into office and pass legislation enabling his direction and make changes.

This is simple.  It can include things like reducing immigration substantially which will have an immediate effect on rents and housing costs.  Unfortunately that will be fairly temporary but will give him time to do the rest

He can make all kinds of tax changes, defund the CBC - all of this is easy.

All you're trying to do is lie about it in order to protect your beloved liberals and Justin trudeau.

As i said - you'll probably get the opportunity to see the difference in a few years.  I'm 100 percent certain that you'll have some species of excuse for why it's so much different under PP, but you can burn that bridge when you cross it   

I am paying pretty close attention and I have not heard PP say any of the things you allude.

He has not said he will curb immigration, let alone lessen acceptance of refugees.

He has not mentioned tax cuts.

He has not said anything about defunding CBC.

If he has, please point me in the direction and to where he said those things.

Not going to get into a pissing contest, only would like to read about those "promises". It will help me make reasonable choices.

 

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by ExFlyer

[myata]

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

the adults handled it for the past 3 elections LOL

The reality always knocks back ? 

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said:

They will point out that "red tape" is actually the regulations that protect the consumer from having their new home falling down around their ears due to shoddy workmanship.

That's not the red tape that's preventing homes from being built. The regulations that need to be addressed are the ones that protect nimby's from density and new neighbours.

[myata]

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

Not going to get into a pissing contest, only would like to read about those "promises". It will help me make reasonable choices.

It's a terrible secret, shhhh. See, not for nothing we have those "parties" (wink wink). You may have no idea what they stand for, but you just know the good one, right?

Edited August 24, 2023 by myata

[Army Guy]

On 8/23/2023 at 6:32 PM, Queenmandy85 said:

If PP doesn't follow the same policies, he will run into problems. By the next election, inflation should be back under control, but that is in the Bank of Canada's jurisdiction. I would hope that PP will curtail immigration drastically and start building dozens of nuclear power plants, but I've been in the rodeo enough that all the promises that are made are swept away by events. 

Spikes in inflation follow every calamitous plague and war. They are global in scope. It happened in the 1350's, and so on into the "roaring" twenties.

The housing crisis will take decades to resolve. We have more people than homes. That drives up the prices. We are running out of land in urban centres where people want to live. It is cheaper to pay people to leave the country than to spend a trillion dollars to build massive apartment buildings to house people. They are called projects. Dens of crime. But no government can get away with paying people to leave in order to drive down the population.

 

Yes inflation is the Bank of Canada's responsibility, but lets not bury Justins 700 plus bil spending spree under the bed and act like it did not contribute to inflation, that much is or has been said by experts in the financial fields..(.I know what do they know) 

I really hope more nuclear projects do get started, despite what the environmentalist say or do...It is like the Government has built a system that does not or will not be able to get things done...I don't know many conservatives that are hard core environmentalists that are against nuclear energy...which leaves who as the protagonists here...

We have more people than home becasue of what policies, increased immigration ? which once again ends up pointing back to the liberal party. People are already leaving, Canada is unaffordable for them...housing, food, and poor health care, 3 of the very building blocks all humans need to survive...Build new urban centers, this is Canada we have more land than we can use in million life times...Why is it the Saudis can build complete cities in the middle of the desert with no infra structure around them...it stretches' some 170 Km's...maybe all the smart people live in Saudi, and perhaps we need to import a few of them...  

[CdnFox]

10 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

I am paying pretty close attention and I have not heard PP say any of the things you allude.

He gives general statements, he's not going to give specifics. But if you listen to his talks and such you can see where his thinking is

Quote

He has not said he will curb immigration, let alone lessen acceptance of refugees.

H HAS said that immmigration must match canada's needs. He's not going to end immigration but he will reduce it and make it more 'dynamic', and reduce 'wait times' due to trying to bring so many in, he's against the 'century' plan, every thing he puts out there says he'll make reductions without actually saying it - becuase if he says he will reduce it at all the libs and dips will claim it means he's cancelling all immigration

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/john-ivison-as-immigration-doubts-grow-poilievre-keeps-the-faith

 

Quote

He has not mentioned tax cuts.

Really.  You haven't heard him discuss the carbon tax at all?  There's others but that should have been front and center in your mind, he promises to axe it regularly.

https://nationalpost.com/news/pierre-poilievre-plans-to-scrap-the-carbon-tax-but-will-he-unveil-a-climate-plan

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-cut-taxes-and-cut-spending-in-upcoming-budget-says-poilievre/

Quote

He has not said anything about defunding CBC.

Well....

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/pierre-poilievre-defund-cbc

It was a central point in his leadership race - he mentions it ALL the TIME.

 

Nobody gets into specifics this far from an election. (theoretically this far).

But he's been pretty clear as to his direction

- adjust immigration (but not kill it)

- reduce taxes and encourage business investment and growth,

- eliminate red tape (gatekeepers) whereever possible and make things happen faster

- build more homes by "encouraging" provinces and municipalites to reduce the process and have a plan (carrot and stick approach)

- Cut wasteful project spending such as the cbc. Maintain or improve core services.

A few other things. It's pretty easy to find him talking about all of this stuff.

[myata]

One can see here the definitive, principal reason between normal democratic parliamentary politics and Canadian facade pseudo politics right here. In plain words and plain sight.

Normal parliamentary parties want, aim and work for the people to know what they stand for and what they will do. It's no secret but the purpose and objective of them being there.

And politics in Canada is about two things: getting to the chair at the trough; and keeping the status quo going. That's it, achieving results comes in the end of the queue, nothing to guess here just observe. This is why their campaigns are always about some bobblehead and never real issues. They are empty. They don't have anything of substance to tell and wouldn't know how to tell it. That's the reason you're down observing some funny rituals maybe I know something, throw a few hints here and there but can't tell anything clear and certain noooooo! As opposed to asking questions, having them answered and making a mindful choice.

It looks like like a silly game, ritual dance. They thought there was a reason for these rituals but forgot long ago.

[ExFlyer]

6 hours ago, CdnFox said:

He gives general statements, he's not going to give specifics. But if you listen to his talks and such you can see where his thinking is

H HAS said that immmigration must match canada's needs. He's not going to end immigration but he will reduce it and make it more 'dynamic', and reduce 'wait times' due to trying to bring so many in, he's against the 'century' plan, every thing he puts out there says he'll make reductions without actually saying it - becuase if he says he will reduce it at all the libs and dips will claim it means he's cancelling all immigration

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/john-ivison-as-immigration-doubts-grow-poilievre-keeps-the-faith

 

Really.  You haven't heard him discuss the carbon tax at all?  There's others but that should have been front and center in your mind, he promises to axe it regularly.

https://nationalpost.com/news/pierre-poilievre-plans-to-scrap-the-carbon-tax-but-will-he-unveil-a-climate-plan

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-cut-taxes-and-cut-spending-in-upcoming-budget-says-poilievre/

Well....

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/pierre-poilievre-defund-cbc

It was a central point in his leadership race - he mentions it ALL the TIME.

 

Nobody gets into specifics this far from an election. (theoretically this far).

But he's been pretty clear as to his direction

- adjust immigration (but not kill it)

- reduce taxes and encourage business investment and growth,

- eliminate red tape (gatekeepers) whereever possible and make things happen faster

- build more homes by "encouraging" provinces and municipalites to reduce the process and have a plan (carrot and stick approach)

- Cut wasteful project spending such as the cbc. Maintain or improve core services.

A few other things. It's pretty easy to find him talking about all of this stuff.

Meeting Canadas demands does not mean cutting immigration. And he did not say anything about the refugees we accept. Also, form the article "The problem with Kwan’s claim is that there is no evidence to support it in anything Poilievre or his immigration critic, Tom Kmiec, has said publicly" so, it is hearsay, not fact .

Yeah, he said he will eliminate the carbon tax but, will the provinces agree with it? British Columbia, New Brunswick, the Northwest Territories and Quebec  have their own carbon tax, not from the feds. But that is all. he said "“A Poilievre government will get rid of the red-tape and the gatekeepers,” "but what does that mean?? he said "The Conservatives are calling for lower payroll taxes, financial incentives to spur housing construction, and an end to deficit-spending and carbon tax hikes in the coming federal budget." but that was in context to the spring budget by the liberals,not what he would do.

Is he threatening to de-fund the CBC because he thinks it is out to get him or a real de-funding of the CBC? “The overpaid CBC President has launched a full partisan campaign against me. Canadians cannot trust anything her CBC says about me, because it is motivated by her partisan campaign against Conservatives,” Sounds like sour grapes as opposed to a policy statement.

I think the list that you make are talking points. All things change when they sit on the throne

 

 

 

[myata]

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

think the list that you make are talking points. All things change when they sit on the throne

And that's the one and whole point of the ritual. I wonder who's still innocent or naive here?

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Meeting Canadas demands does not mean cutting immigration. And he did not say anything about the refugees we accept.

Sure. He's dancing around the issue a bit.  But he DID support quebec's rejection of the century project.  And his language is such that i's clear he intends to dial that back a bit.

And that is a tool that can help him with the housing and inflation fight for a short time, to give time for other things to work.

Quote

Also, form the article "The problem with Kwan’s claim is that there is no evidence to support it in anything Poilievre or his immigration critic, Tom Kmiec, has said publicly" so, it is hearsay, not fact .

And he explained why pierre can never come right out and say that he will   Lets put it another way - has he said anything anywhere that he would CONTINUE at current levels?

 

Quote

Yeah, he said he will eliminate the carbon tax but, will the provinces agree with it? British Columbia, New Brunswick, the Northwest Territories and Quebec  have their own carbon tax, not from the feds

.None of those provincial taxes were as high as trudeau's tax, never mind that trudeau's tax is going up.  And that will be up to the people of those provinces if they want to continue with that tax - those people can alwayhs vote for another option.  But the feds tax will be reduced and provinces that want to be competitive can reduce or eliminate their tax.

Quote

But that is all. he said "“A Poilievre government will get rid of the red-tape and the gatekeepers,” "but what does that mean?? he said "The Conservatives are calling for lower payroll taxes, financial incentives to spur housing construction, and an end to deficit-spending and carbon tax hikes in the coming federal budget." but that was in context to the spring budget by the liberals,not what he would do.

And?

As has been said about 1000 times - he's not going to give details till the election.  Period.  He is however providing insight into the thinking that will guide hi and to what his priorities are. He'll look to reduce tax. If you want specifics you'll have to wait till the election.

Quote

Is he threatening to de-fund the CBC because he thinks it is out to get him or a real de-funding of the CBC? “The overpaid CBC President has launched a full partisan campaign against me. Canadians cannot trust anything her CBC says about me, because it is motivated by her partisan campaign against Conservatives,” Sounds like sour grapes as opposed to a policy statement.

Your question appears to be "Is he getting rid of them because they are partisan hacks? Or is he getting rid of them because they are partisan hacks?" .  The CBC has become nothing but partisan hacks that suck up money and no longer fill their mandate. Therefore the funds that were spent on the CBC can be spent somewhere else and benefit Canadians better. It's really not complicated.

 

Quote

I think the list that you make are talking points. All things change when they sit on the throne

With the exception of income trusts they didn't for harper. He either delivered on each priomise or tried damn hard and there was a good reason he was unable to.

I think you're not a fan and prefer to think he won't be quite as successful as he might be    And fair enough .

 

But the facts are that he has the tools and he's ackonwledged them  used properly they can resolve a LOT of the worst issues we face.  Not all by a long shot  the damage Justin has done will be generational before it's gone. But a lot. And that's just what we need right now  The only shame is we're going to have to wait while justin does more damage ,

[Queenmandy85]

On 8/23/2023 at 2:10 PM, CdnFox said:

You must be insane to think that

 

On 8/23/2023 at 9:51 PM, CdnFox said:

you're a m0ron

 

On 8/23/2023 at 2:34 PM, CdnFox said:

that's a boldfaced lie

 

On 8/23/2023 at 9:51 PM, CdnFox said:

I mourn your low  IQ

While all this is very entertaining, you could benefit from a tutorial on how to conduct an argument. I give you the argument skit from Monty Python. All in good fun.

Have a good weekend, my friend. ?