Devon Archer Transcript proves Joe had the Ukrainian prosecutor fired to help end the investigation into his son's energy firm Burisma

[Hodad]

4 minutes ago, West said:

So your evidence of Shokin's "corruption" is a man whos son was making $1 million a year to sit on a board of an energy firm who was under investigation all over for corruption? 

That's why your claims are ridiculous.

And yes as has already been explained to you, the stakes for Burisma were high which is why they had multilayered approach in the US and in Europe. Archer alluded to this in his testimony. 

WTF? That's not my evidence at all. Not even remotely. You obviously didn't read that article or any of the many, many contemporaneous quotes that have been provided to you. Everyone wanted the corrupt Shokin fired except for his oligarch partners. His countrymen wanted him out, the international community, US Republicans--everyone. What don't you understand about that?

Seriously, the only thing you seem interested in learning is the rote lines required to parrot the conspiracy theory. 

I also notice that you didn't provide the requested citations for your claim. I'm shocked!

[West]

16 minutes ago, Hodad said:

WTF? That's not my evidence at all. Not even remotely. You obviously didn't read that article or any of the many, many contemporaneous quotes that have been provided to you. Everyone wanted the corrupt Shokin fired except for his oligarch partners. His countrymen wanted him out, the international community, US Republicans--everyone. What don't you understand about that?

Seriously, the only thing you seem interested in learning is the rote lines required to parrot the conspiracy theory. 

I also notice that you didn't provide the requested citations for your claim. I'm shocked!

... yet Hunter Biden WAS DOING BUSINESS WITH SAID OLIGARCHS ?.. thats a fact not a conspiracy theory

Edited August 30, 2023 by West

[Hodad]

3 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

OOPS...so now Devon Archer is a liar too?

This is silly. I don't know what this Shokin character is like, nor do I care. He and Hunter's own business partner and old buddy, say the same thing.

 

Holy farking shit. You are shameless.

Here is the whole damn transcript AGAIN. I defy you to produce any such quote. 

 

I have no idea if Devon Archer is a liar or not, but his sworn testimony says exactly the opposite of what you are trying to claim. He said, as has been quoted for you, that Burisma wanted to keep Shokin and place, that he was not aware of Joe Biden ever taking any action to benefit Hunter's business, and that, indeed, Hunter was transparent about not having any ability to influence his father.

[Rebound]

21 hours ago, West said:

 

Burisma was accused of illegally selling gas and Shokin had frozen their assets, the CEO fled the country.

On this point, your information is almost entirely incorrect.  Burisma’s assets were never frozen. The CEO of Burisma had $24 million of his assets frozen, but they were frozen by the British government, not by Shokin. And a British court subsequently ordered the assets unfrozen because Ukrainian prosector Shokin had not provided any evidence to Britain to substantiate the allegations. This CEO later fled to Russia, but it was after Shokin was fired.  

[Hodad]

21 minutes ago, West said:

... yet Hunter Biden WAS DOING BUSINESS WITH SAID OLIGARCHS ?.. thats a fact not a conspiracy theory

Yes, he was. That's not even in question. 

According to Archer, they got in with good intentions, not aware of how corrupt Burisma and Ukraine were, but there's no doubt that Hunter and Archer were working for a shady company.

What's your point?

Shokin was protecting Burisma. Bursima wanted to keep Shokin. Joe Biden still got him fired, contrary to the interests of Hunter's business relationship. -- Great. Good for Joe. That's a testament to his character.

[West]

3 minutes ago, Rebound said:

On this point, your information is almost entirely incorrect.  Burisma’s assets were never frozen. The CEO of Burisma had $24 million of his assets frozen, but they were frozen by the British government, not by Shokin. And a British court subsequently ordered the assets unfrozen because Ukrainian prosector Shokin had not provided any evidence to Britain to substantiate the allegations. This CEO later fled to Russia, but it was after Shokin was fired.  

No this is incorrect. Shokin had seized most of their assets in the Ukraine. 

From Devon Archer:

“He was a threat. He ended up seizing assets of [Burisma owner] Nikolai [Zlochevsky] — a house, some cars, a couple properties. And Nikolai actually never went back to Ukraine after Shokin seized all of his assets,” 

 

Edited August 30, 2023 by West

[West]

9 minutes ago, Hodad said:

Yes, he was. That's not even in question. 

According to Archer, they got in with good intentions, not aware of how corrupt Burisma and Ukraine were, but there's no doubt that Hunter and Archer were working for a shady company.

What's your point?

Shokin was protecting Burisma. Bursima wanted to keep Shokin. Joe Biden still got him fired, contrary to the interests of Hunter's business relationship. -- Great. Good for Joe. That's a testament to his character.

This is factually incorrect. 

Shokin had frozen a seized a bunch of assets from burisma executives. 

[Nationalist]

46 minutes ago, Hodad said:

Holy farking shit. You are shameless.

Here is the whole damn transcript AGAIN. I defy you to produce any such quote. 

 

I have no idea if Devon Archer is a liar or not, but his sworn testimony says exactly the opposite of what you are trying to claim. He said, as has been quoted for you, that Burisma wanted to keep Shokin and place, that he was not aware of Joe Biden ever taking any action to benefit Hunter's business, and that, indeed, Hunter was transparent about not having any ability to influence his father.

Hmmm...

From your transcript...

Quote

Q Are you aware that Vadym had told Blue Star that one of the 11 issues/pressures that he was facing was related to Shokin and the investigation into 12 Burisma? 13

A So -- yes. I was -- the narrative that was spun to me, quite frankly, just to 14 be -- and I remember this because, obviously, it's -- the narrative that was spun to me was 15 that Shokin was under control and that whoever the next person that was brought in 16 was -- you know, the fact that he was -- this is the total, this is the narrative spun to me, 17 that Shokin being fired was a -- was not good, because he was like under control as 18 relates to Mykola. 19 I have no way to verify that. And that was spun to me from various folks in D.C., 20 not Hunter specifically, but that was what I was led to believe. Whether it's true or not, 21 I cannot speculate.

So...US officials told Archer the "spin". Not anyone from Ukraine.

Gee...that doesn't sound very definitive to me. You sure you wanna hang your hat on US officials and their "spin"?

[Hodad]

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

Hmmm...

From your transcript...

So...US officials told Archer the "spin". Not anyone from Ukraine.

Gee...that doesn't sound very definitive to me. You sure you wanna hang your hat on US officials and their "spin"?

Not that you have the grace to acknowledge that you were incorrect, but I'm taking this pivot as a concession that you (finally) opened the transcript and DID NOT see anywhere that Hunter called Joe to get Shokin fired. It was a false claim. we can take that lie off the table.

You're factually incorrect again. Archer was not told that Burisma liked Shokin by US Officials. The "D.C. team" is referred to several time in the session and identified as Burisma/Rosemont people back in D.C. In other words, people on the Burisma side told Archer that keeping Shokin in place would be good for Burisma and firing him would be bad. Pg. 106
Mr. Archer. That was like -- that was a narrative that was -- that was told to me by various of the D.C. team, that the firing of Shokin was bad for Burisma because he was under control.

 

2 hours ago, West said:

This is factually incorrect. 

Shokin had frozen a seized a bunch of assets from burisma executives. 

Great, then you'll have no problem providing a citation for that claim.

[West]

9 minutes ago, Hodad said:

Not that you have the grace to acknowledge that you were incorrect, but I'm taking this pivot as a concession that you (finally) opened the transcript and DID NOT see anywhere that Hunter called Joe to get Shokin fired. It was a false claim. we can take that lie off the table.

You're factually incorrect again. Archer was not told that Burisma liked Shokin by US Officials. The "D.C. team" is referred to several time in the session and identified as Burisma/Rosemont people back in D.C. In other words, people on the Burisma side told Archer that keeping Shokin in place would be good for Burisma and firing him would be bad. Pg. 106
Mr. Archer. That was like -- that was a narrative that was -- that was told to me by various of the D.C. team, that the firing of Shokin was bad for Burisma because he was under control.

 

Great, then you'll have no problem providing a citation for that claim.

I've already provided you that. 

[Nationalist]

11 minutes ago, Hodad said:

Not that you have the grace to acknowledge that you were incorrect, but I'm taking this pivot as a concession that you (finally) opened the transcript and DID NOT see anywhere that Hunter called Joe to get Shokin fired. It was a false claim. we can take that lie off the table.

You're factually incorrect again. Archer was not told that Burisma liked Shokin by US Officials. The "D.C. team" is referred to several time in the session and identified as Burisma/Rosemont people back in D.C. In other words, people on the Burisma side told Archer that keeping Shokin in place would be good for Burisma and firing him would be bad. Pg. 106
Mr. Archer. That was like -- that was a narrative that was -- that was told to me by various of the D.C. team, that the firing of Shokin was bad for Burisma because he was under control.

 

Great, then you'll have no problem providing a citation for that claim.

Split that hair nicely. A blind man could see through this as long as he wasn't stupid too.

You must be both. My sympathies.

[Hodad]

52 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Split that hair nicely. A blind man could see through this as long as he wasn't stupid too.

You must be both. My sympathies.

 

53 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Split that hair nicely. A blind man could see through this as long as he wasn't stupid too.

You must be both. My sympathies.

It's not splitting hairs you kook. The US government--along with everyone else--was very public about Shokin being corrupt. That's well established.

You choose to believe a conspiracy instead, because crazies are gonna crazy.

But it is something entirely different for Archer to testify that his own team,  Burisma people, quietly told him the same thing: we want to keep Shokin.

You don't understand anything in this whole sordid scenario, do you? Sad.

 

[West]

23 minutes ago, Hodad said:

The US government--along with everyone else--was very public about Shokin being corrupt.

And by the US government you mean Joe Biden who's son was making millions in the Ukraine. 

[Nationalist]

1 hour ago, Hodad said:

 

It's not splitting hairs you kook. The US government--along with everyone else--was very public about Shokin being corrupt. That's well established.

You choose to believe a conspiracy instead, because crazies are gonna crazy.

But it is something entirely different for Archer to testify that his own team,  Burisma people, quietly told him the same thing: we want to keep Shokin.

You don't understand anything in this whole sordid scenario, do you? Sad.

 

A corrupt Ukrainian...go figure.

US OFFICIALS told him.

He doesn't know if it's true. 

[Hodad]

47 minutes ago, West said:

And by the US government you mean Joe Biden who's son was making millions in the Ukraine. 

No, as has been mentioned a dozen times, the whole administration and a bipartisan group of congresspeople. Plus our international allies.

How many times will it take?

[Hodad]

9 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

A corrupt Ukrainian...go figure.

US OFFICIALS told him.

He doesn't know if it's true. 

Jeebus, man. I quoted the transcript directly to you. It was not US officials. Why would Archer even be talking to US officials? 

You are just plain lying.

Of course he can't know if it's true. He can only report what he was told. But your conspiracy theory gets even stupider if you tack on Burisma lying to Archer for no discernable reason (other than that you had a crazy thought).

[West]

15 minutes ago, Hodad said:

No, as has been mentioned a dozen times, the whole administration and a bipartisan group of congresspeople. Plus our international allies.

How many times will it take?

Lol   

So basically people who were making money off the place are claiming they are "corrupt"

[Rebound]

5 hours ago, West said:

No this is incorrect. Shokin had seized most of their assets in the Ukraine. 

From Devon Archer:

“He was a threat. He ended up seizing assets of [Burisma owner] Nikolai [Zlochevsky] — a house, some cars, a couple properties. And Nikolai actually never went back to Ukraine after Shokin seized all of his assets,” 

 

The Ukraine government only seized his houses, a Rolls Royce Phantom, and a small private plane, but it was the British Government that took his cash.  
 

Zolovhevsky did return to Ukraine, in 2018, but left shortly thereafter:

https://uawire.org/media-ex-minister-of-ecology-from-the-yanukovych-administration-returned-to-ukraine#

 

But it’s this article from 2019 that explains things best:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/12/the-money-machine-how-a-high-profile-corruption-investigation-fell-apart

[Hodad]

26 minutes ago, West said:

Lol   

So basically people who were making money off the place are claiming they are "corrupt"

It's hard at this absurd point to even properly guess WTF you are on about. 

Has the conspiracy just eaten itself so that everyone in the world is corrupt EXCEPT Shokin?

[Hodad]

19 minutes ago, Rebound said:

The Ukraine government only seized his houses, a Rolls Royce Phantom, and a small private plane, but it was the British Government that took his cash.  
 

Zolovhevsky did return to Ukraine, in 2018, but left shortly thereafter:

https://uawire.org/media-ex-minister-of-ecology-from-the-yanukovych-administration-returned-to-ukraine#

 

But it’s this article from 2019 that explains things best:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/12/the-money-machine-how-a-high-profile-corruption-investigation-fell-apart

I've posted that more than once. No luck. I think there is a religious proscription against reading heretical materials that might undermine the gospel of the God-King.

It is an excellent article though.

Edited August 31, 2023 by Hodad

[West]

4 minutes ago, Hodad said:

It's hard at this absurd point to even properly guess WTF you are on about. 

Has the conspiracy just eaten itself so that everyone in the world is corrupt EXCEPT Shokin?

Your view seems to be because the Biden administration claimed that shokin was corrupt it must be true. 

It's a circular argument void of any facts

[Hodad]

1 minute ago, West said:

Your view seems to be because the Biden administration claimed that shokin was corrupt it must be true. 

It's a circular argument void of any facts

Don't you mean, the Obama administration, Democrats in Congress, Republicans in Congress, the UK, the EU, the IMF, Ukranian anti-corruption groups, the Ukranian people, the reformers in Shokin's department, AND the Burisma contingent in D.C.

This was not a Joe Biden project. It was literally international. 

Are you just flushing that info down your mind toilet because it's inconvenient?

You really think all of those entities were expending their resources and credibility to help Hunter make an unimpressive amount of money? Insane. GTFO!

[West]

3 minutes ago, Hodad said:

Don't you mean, the Obama administration, Democrats in Congress, Republicans in Congress, the UK, the EU, the IMF, Ukranian anti-corruption groups, the Ukranian people, the reformers in Shokin's department, AND the Burisma contingent in D.C.

This was not a Joe Biden project. It was literally international. 

Are you just flushing that info down your mind toilet because it's inconvenient?

You really think all of those entities were expending their resources and credibility to help Hunter make an unimpressive amount of money? Insane. GTFO!

It's a nonsensical argument.. 

The guy who's son making millions off Burisma claims the prosecutor who's investigating is corrupt therefore its true. 

And this corruption watch is probably backed by these corrupt companies. About as legitimate as the ACLU in the US or any of these other nutty far left activist groups

[Hodad]

20 minutes ago, West said:

It's a nonsensical argument.. 

The guy who's son making millions off Burisma claims the prosecutor who's investigating is corrupt therefore its true. 

And this corruption watch is probably backed by these corrupt companies. About as legitimate as the ACLU in the US or any of these other nutty far left activist groups

Dude, you're a bottom of the barrel zombie if you can read that list of entities and boil it  down to "Joe Biden says..."

You've been shown the evidence and analysis. You can read for yourself how Shokin sabotaged the UK investigation and got Zlochevskiy's money unfrozen. You can read the a Archer testimony that Burisma itself worked with Shokin.

He also wasn't investigating Burisma and hadn't been for some years. That info comes directly from the anti-corruption prosecutors in Shokin's department. He had shelved the investigation. Which aligns perfectly with Burisma saying they have him under control. 

You're just parroting the same debunked nonsense. You'd literally prefer to appear stupid than admit the conspiracy theory is nonsense.

That's your choice. N'joy!

Edited August 31, 2023 by Hodad

[West]

8 hours ago, Hodad said:

Dude, you're a bottom of the barrel zombie if you can read that list of entities and boil it  down to "Joe Biden says..."

You've been shown the evidence and analysis. You can read for yourself how Shokin sabotaged the UK investigation and got Zlochevskiy's money unfrozen. You can read the a Archer testimony that Burisma itself worked with Shokin.

He also wasn't investigating Burisma and hadn't been for some years. That info comes directly from the anti-corruption prosecutors in Shokin's department. He had shelved the investigation. Which aligns perfectly with Burisma saying they have him under control. 

You're just parroting the same debunked nonsense. You'd literally prefer to appear stupid than admit the conspiracy theory is nonsense.

That's your choice. N'joy!

Lol.. 

And you've been shown archers testimony which refutes your so called proof. 

Your argument would be more believable if burisma wasn't stacking their board with lobbyists and paying your guy's son millions of dollars to sit on their board. Character assassination is a common tactic among your side so forgive me if I don't believe you without concrete proof, not "Joe Biden said so therefore its true".

Your argument boils down to the pro burisma lobbyists claiming the guy was corrupt therefore he is. It's a circular argument

This is a classic example of a false authority fallacy. I'm supposed to take Joe Bidens word as some sort of gospel truth on ukraine affairs while his son bags a hefty sum of cash in the area lol.. ?

Edited August 31, 2023 by West