Army Guy Posted October 20, 2025 Report Posted October 20, 2025 On 10/19/2025 at 5:59 PM, eyeball said: Existing emergency and auxiliary services, especially in rural areas, often offer skills development training to attract volunteers. Offering this type of defense training is something we could easily do. We could maintain armouries in communities all across Canada in preparation and for ongoing training as well. I mean, we've all seen Red Dawn, commies could drop out of the sky anywhere. We can't even equip or train our regular forces, nor do we as a nation really care about doing so....just how do we equip and train communities? currently our government is trying to disarm the people now because they are scary looking.... you want to train them on military weapons.... This whole idea of Canadians becoming involved in a RED dawn scenario makes me laugh....Canadians are not going to get involved in any military operations in any large enough numbers to make it count... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
eyeball Posted October 20, 2025 Report Posted October 20, 2025 13 minutes ago, Army Guy said: We can't even equip or train our regular forces, nor do we as a nation really care about doing so....just how do we equip and train communities? The same way we do with other volunteer emergency services... it's like a ready made army that's probably already 3/4 filled with just the sort of gung ho people we need. There's thousands of them all across Canada as we speak. Instead of air-packs and fire hoses every Tuesday night I would have loved to go spend every 4th drill blowing shit up and shooting off machine guns. 1 Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Army Guy Posted October 20, 2025 Report Posted October 20, 2025 On 10/19/2025 at 12:49 PM, BeaverFever said: That’s why they only train for arctic warfare not arctic sovereignty and security. Basically they’re training to defend Norway. Canada’s arctic mandate at least for now is sovereignty and security of the Canadian arctic which is a different mission. CSOR does so we at least have a small nugget of excellence. I was thinking the way around this problem without the politically problematic issue of training the CAF to fight the USA would be to modify our NATO mission in Latvia/Eastern Europe to train for “defence in depth” of “total defence” warfare against a Russian invasion of Europe. The Scandinavian and Baltic states already employ these principles, which accept that they can’t realistically hold off a Russian invasion along a static front but instead will have to fight and operate in and amongst Russian forces with no real “front line”. I think of it like a cheese grater, which doesn’t stop the cheese from passing through it, but instead just shreds the cheese into more manageable pieces as it passes through. It’s not really “insurgency” or guerrilla warfare but more like dispersed operations with conventional forces but I think it’s something to work with. I think we might have just seen an example with Canadian CF-18s practicing operations from Estonian highways in a recent exercise this past week. Anyway it would be cool if the Canadian Army made practicing this type of defence and insurgency/guerrilla warfare in Europe an official part of its doctrine and purpose - you know, to help resist a “Russian” invasion of “Europe“ (making big air quotes) - for the true purpose of defending Canada from USA. It could be especially effective if we made sure to get lots of Reservists rotated through that training so they could bring that knowledge back to their local reserve regiments in communities across the country. That's not what the liberals plans are, they are planning to build forward operating bases in our artic to defend our artic and while it does contribute to our sovereignty, and security, those bases will be manned and equipped to be the nations trip wire for the artic, NATO has mentioned this many times that we, Canada has left the door open for anyone willing to kick it down...Hence why we are spending bils on updating our Radar stations, collaborating with the US on the golden dome which will include BMD missiles, setting up bases that have fighters on them , plus troops that can deploy and defend if necessary.. Not enough troops in those border countries to have defense in depth...They are a trip wire at best...much like the troops we had in Germany, which were told they had to hold for 72 hours long enough for troops from the US to be flown over and man equipment already stored...like Canada had in Norway, but no long has...but most of NATO has long ago cashed in those peace bonds and there is no more underground depots filled with equipment for fly over troops to man and fight with...yes troops and equipment would be coming as reinforcement but they would need to land in Europe's ports if they were not already taken... Today those troops in Latvia would be overrun or killed within the first 24 to 48 hours...with no one else from Canada going to come and rescue them...they are there so politicians can puff up there chests and tell the world look what we did...troops on the ground know they are expendable...i mean if Canada was serious about holding back the Russian hoards they could at least give them the equipment they need...new tanks, Tracked IFV, SPA, layered air defenses, Rocket arty, Attack helos, modern anti tank weapons, Various drones....at least give them a chance at doing their jobs....And while Carneys liberal has promised to do something....the reality on the ground right now is troops are holding on to their dicks with very little actual modern weapons to fight Russia attacks... It would be cool to see Canada get it's act together....but you'll have to excuse my skepticism i waited my entire 34 year career for these changes, my son has waited his 12 years for this to happen...I'm still hopeful, but not holding my breath...Canadians like to talk a good game...until it is time to go see the banker... pretending our military today or tomorrows, will be able to defend Canada from the US, is a pipe dream...It would be over before it started.....The real question would be WHY such an invasion would even be needed....when there is so many other options... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted October 20, 2025 Report Posted October 20, 2025 10 minutes ago, eyeball said: The same way we do with other volunteer emergency services... it's like a ready made army that's probably already 3/4 filled with just the sort of gung ho people we need. There's thousands of them all across Canada as we speak. Instead of air-packs and fire hoses every Tuesday night I would have loved to go spend every 4th drill blowing shit up and shooting off machine guns. You mean sell cookies, or baked goods, or the car wash is also a good idea...I'll ask again where is all this cash coming from when we can't even properly equip or train our regular force soldiers...Maybe they could buy their own weapons and bullets ... If it was that easy to fill out the numbers the forces we would not have a recruitment problem....Nobody wants to join a military that has gone woke...Military has some very acceptable wages...that could compete with most civilian jobs...Canadians don't want to be in the military.... Many people join to blow shit up it is what attracted me to join, back in the day when we did blow shit up regularly, today training funding is almost non existent, even Infantry only get out a couple of times a year to blow shit up, Sh1t they can't afford to buy spare parts for our equipment.... 1 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
eyeball Posted October 21, 2025 Report Posted October 21, 2025 52 minutes ago, Army Guy said: I'll ask again where is all this cash coming from when we can't even properly equip or train our regular force soldiers... From the money Carney announced he would spend on boosting our defence. There will never ever be enough money equipment or soldiers available to defend ourselves from a conventional attack. The best we can ever hope for is to repel an attack once it's happened. Of course I still think having a couple of Doomsday Bombs on hand would go a long way towards deterring an attack in the first place. 1 Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
herbie Posted October 21, 2025 Report Posted October 21, 2025 F*ck. They want more military spending all the while griping about spending the money. Whatever they order, it's not enough or not the right stuff. Defend against a conventional attack? FFS that could ONLY come from one direction, so maybe eyeball's doomsday device would be the only way poaaibe. No war, no history, no observations of modern warfare can change the imagination of these 1950 black & white invasion movies about the Red Chinese burrowing through the center of the Earth and coming out Billy's backyard sandbox. Or the fever dreams of 1980 propaganda about football teams driving off invaders. The days of huge D-Day invasion fleets and 1,000 plane heavy bomber strikes are long gone. Along with nuking unimportant targets. 1 Quote
BeaverFever Posted October 21, 2025 Author Report Posted October 21, 2025 (edited) 17 hours ago, Army Guy said: That's not what the liberals plans are, they are planning to build forward operating bases in our artic to defend our artic and while it does contribute to our sovereignty, and security, those bases will be manned and equipped to be the nations trip wire for the artic, NATO has mentioned this many times that we, Canada has left the door open for anyone willing to kick it down...Hence why we are spending bils on updating our Radar stations, collaborating with the US on the golden dome which will include BMD missiles, setting up bases that have fighters on them , plus troops that can deploy and defend if necessary.. Not enough troops in those border countries to have defense in depth...They are a trip wire at best...much like the troops we had in Germany, which were told they had to hold for 72 hours long enough for troops from the US to be flown over and man equipment already stored...like Canada had in Norway, but no long has...but most of NATO has long ago cashed in those peace bonds and there is no more underground depots filled with equipment for fly over troops to man and fight with...yes troops and equipment would be coming as reinforcement but they would need to land in Europe's ports if they were not already taken... Today those troops in Latvia would be overrun or killed within the first 24 to 48 hours...with no one else from Canada going to come and rescue them...they are there so politicians can puff up there chests and tell the world look what we did...troops on the ground know they are expendable...i mean if Canada was serious about holding back the Russian hoards they could at least give them the equipment they need...new tanks, Tracked IFV, SPA, layered air defenses, Rocket arty, Attack helos, modern anti tank weapons, Various drones....at least give them a chance at doing their jobs....And while Carneys liberal has promised to do something....the reality on the ground right now is troops are holding on to their dicks with very little actual modern weapons to fight Russia attacks... It would be cool to see Canada get it's act together....but you'll have to excuse my skepticism i waited my entire 34 year career for these changes, my son has waited his 12 years for this to happen...I'm still hopeful, but not holding my breath...Canadians like to talk a good game...until it is time to go see the banker... pretending our military today or tomorrows, will be able to defend Canada from the US, is a pipe dream...It would be over before it started.....The real question would be WHY such an invasion would even be needed....when there is so many other options... Yeah this is all just pretend talk we all know nobody is realistically ever going to invade Canada. If USA were to annex Canada it would be an inside job, prime minister Kevin O’Leary signing a treaty, something like that But if an invasion were to happen it would only happen from the south. Russia could theoretically nibble uninhabited islands in the arctic but the mainland is not threatened. Our arctic challenge is sovereignty and security not combat. But in the highly unlikely US invasion scenario I do believe there would be an armed resistance operating on both sides of the border which would have many US supporters and USA would not be able to adequately contain it given the vast geography involved Edited October 21, 2025 by BeaverFever 1 1 Quote
eyeball Posted October 21, 2025 Report Posted October 21, 2025 4 hours ago, Army Guy said: We can't even equip or train our regular forces, nor do we as a nation really care about doing so... What many of us don't care to see is our defence dollars being wasted on following our allies around the world trying to clean up all the dictatorships and shit they left behind. Of course don't get me wrong when it comes to defending our military interests abroad - I would have quite happily sent Ukraine a couple of our carrier battle groups and long range bomber squadrons within weeks of Putin's invasion. Better dead than that POS. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
eyeball Posted October 21, 2025 Report Posted October 21, 2025 On 10/19/2025 at 3:13 PM, BeaverFever said: It’s a totally reasonable and non-provocative thing to do. This is why I think involving/integrating existing emergency services would be a hugely acceptable and saleable means of showing we're actually serious about our defence. It's got Mom, apple pie and AGs community cookie sales baked in from day one. I can see the headlines now, "Poilievre objects to Carney's plan to spend new defence dollars at home". "Trump squirms" On 10/19/2025 at 3:13 PM, BeaverFever said: We should be boosting our reserves anyway, as a cost- effective way to grow our force size and to respond to the increasing number of natural disasters across the country. What we really need is a dedicated Environmental Works Department. Ready to respond to emergencies when they're not busy working to prevent them. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Venandi Posted October 21, 2025 Report Posted October 21, 2025 7 hours ago, eyeball said: I would have quite happily sent Ukraine a couple of our carrier battle groups and long range bomber squadrons.... Cool, and you could ship them in the same box as those .22 calibre semi-automatic assault style rifles" they so desperately need. Be sure to include the 5 round magazines. I think sending Frozen 7 hours ago, eyeball said: apple pie was a better idea.... but as always, I'm rooting for ya. 1 Quote
eyeball Posted October 21, 2025 Report Posted October 21, 2025 5 hours ago, Venandi said: Cool, and you could ship them in the same box as those .22 calibre semi-automatic assault style rifles" they so desperately need. Be sure to include the 5 round magazines. Shoot, I forgot the sarc/off again. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Venandi Posted October 21, 2025 Report Posted October 21, 2025 (edited) 3 hours ago, eyeball said: Shoot, I forgot the sarc/off again. Granted that was a bit sarcastic... but it's still not that far removed from reality when you consider the state of our (gasp) carrier battle groups. Here's the thing IMO, after 32 years and 10 foreign deployments you and yours don't trust me to even own a semi-automatic rifle, so I'm wondering... since you can't (or won't) train, equip and field a viable professional military, how do you plan to train and equip a viable (community based) force with enough teeth to bite a soft boiled egg? If Army Guy and I can't make the cut, what would your equity based recruiting standard look like? Edited October 21, 2025 by Venandi 1 Quote
eyeball Posted October 21, 2025 Report Posted October 21, 2025 10 minutes ago, Venandi said: Here's the thing IMO, after 32 years and 10 foreign deployments you and yours don't trust me to even own a semi-automatic rifle, so I'm wondering... since you can't (or won't) train, equip and field a viable professional military, how do you plan to train and equip a viable (community based) force with enough teeth to bite a soft boiled egg? It should be easy to motivate Canadians to get involved and support a local defence capacity given the threats of annexation we've been subjected to. 11 minutes ago, Venandi said: If Army Guy and I can't make the cut, It seems to me that Herb and Robo would take extreme exception to the inclusive nature of your recruiting standards. They might. I was suggesting a Coalition of the willing to rid the world of its warlords and dictators decades ago. We'd probably be closing in on the last holdouts by now. I think we'd find lots of recruitable people amongst the emergency services around the country. I've seen volunteers go on to become paid paramedics, firefighters and coast guard crew. Integrating training for community based defence with recruitment for conventional defence and offshore deployment should yield a similar result. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Army Guy Posted October 21, 2025 Report Posted October 21, 2025 23 hours ago, eyeball said: From the money Carney announced he would spend on boosting our defence. There will never ever be enough money equipment or soldiers available to defend ourselves from a conventional attack. The best we can ever hope for is to repel an attack once it's happened. Of course I still think having a couple of Doomsday Bombs on hand would go a long way towards deterring an attack in the first place. We have a conventional military to deter ANY attack from happening to begin with...your fantasy about running around your back yard with some cam paint on your face dressed in fatigues is just that.....one does not just buy a boat and expect to become a fishermen....one needs the right equipment , experience, and training...But if you still want there are many companies out there that will give you that Rambo training for bags of money.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted October 21, 2025 Report Posted October 21, 2025 22 hours ago, herbie said: F*ck. They want more military spending all the while griping about spending the money. Whatever they order, it's not enough or not the right stuff. Defend against a conventional attack? FFS that could ONLY come from one direction, so maybe eyeball's doomsday device would be the only way poaaibe. No war, no history, no observations of modern warfare can change the imagination of these 1950 black & white invasion movies about the Red Chinese burrowing through the center of the Earth and coming out Billy's backyard sandbox. Or the fever dreams of 1980 propaganda about football teams driving off invaders. The days of huge D-Day invasion fleets and 1,000 plane heavy bomber strikes are long gone. Along with nuking unimportant targets. I think they should at least get housing that was not built before the early 1950's, have drinkable water, and maybe a toilet you can actually use....we won't even start on the work place situations...and not having 1/2 the equipment you need to at least come home from deployment....I know to much to ask....You must be proud, It's people like you that make it harder to get recruits to join to defend a nation of such ungrateful sacks of Crap... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
eyeball Posted October 22, 2025 Report Posted October 22, 2025 15 minutes ago, Army Guy said: We have a conventional military to deter ANY attack from happening to begin with... Oh. So what are you and Trump whining about again? Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Army Guy Posted October 22, 2025 Report Posted October 22, 2025 21 hours ago, BeaverFever said: Yeah this is all just pretend talk we all know nobody is realistically ever going to invade Canada. If USA were to annex Canada it would be an inside job, prime minister Kevin O’Leary signing a treaty, something like that But if an invasion were to happen it would only happen from the south. Russia could theoretically nibble uninhabited islands in the arctic but the mainland is not threatened. Our arctic challenge is sovereignty and security not combat. But in the highly unlikely US invasion scenario I do believe there would be an armed resistance operating on both sides of the border which would have many US supporters and USA would not be able to adequately contain it given the vast geography involved What is the point of the first two if your not willing to defend Sovereignty, you said if Russia decides to start taking inhabited islands you would be good with that as long as they stayed away from the main land...most of the artic is made up of islands of various sizes...So what is the point of patrolling the artic, for sovereignty and security if we are not going to defend them ....the question is are they part of Canada, yes, along with everything else for 12 kms around them... along with any resources in those waters... Part of having sovereignty, and security is being able to defend against any aggression...if your not willing to that then you have NO sovereignty at all.... It is why we purchased AOP's, drones, sensors, and now building FOB's in our artic....Yes to patrol and tell the world they are ours ....but we must be able to defend all our interests and borders...In order to do that we must have the means to defend ourselves... or we watch hostile nations just take what they want.... The Us does not need to use it's military forces to conquer Canada it could be done economically, or via cyber attacks in which cases Canadians would welcome US assistance.... In case of a US military invasion, it would be over before you woke up the next morning...And some how Canadian civilians are suppose to gather up their bolt action hunting rifles and defend the country....I thought you were ex military....cyber attacks alone could shut down Canada's power grid, airports, train stations, road networks, do that during the winter, during say X-mas holidays when 3/4 of our military are scatter across the country, most other networks are on minimum manning, Canadians are in different areas of the country visiting family no access to any survival gear...Turning the power grid off for more than a week would kill millions...People would not be thinking about taking up arms. they would be in survival mode....trying to fed and defend their families....Throw in all of that a few direct attacks on population centers to cause mass panic and poof....4 red necks from Louisiana could take over the country in air boats...OK maybe 6.... As for those in the US, close those border crossings....with military forces....and even if some of them got through there is not going to be any support or logistics for them to stay for long... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted October 22, 2025 Report Posted October 22, 2025 1 minute ago, eyeball said: Oh. So what are you and Trump whining about again? Trump is not worried....all he has to do is blink three times and eyeball, you'll be applying for an American passport...or living off grid in the BC back country....you should invest in a good hunting rifle and a fur hat.... And all those Canadians that don't like trump well you did this to yourselves...you don't have to defeat your enemies, it is far cheaper to let him think it would be to expensive to invade....what do you think keeps Putin up at night now....do you think hew would have invaded knowing what he does today....i don't.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
eyeball Posted October 22, 2025 Report Posted October 22, 2025 10 minutes ago, Army Guy said: Trump is not worried...all he has to do is blink three times and eyeball, you'll be applying for an American passport... It's easy to believe you'd like that... you've got a real stick it to the libbies streak in you don't you? We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. You gave up decades ago. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Army Guy Posted October 22, 2025 Report Posted October 22, 2025 9 minutes ago, eyeball said: It's easy to believe you'd like that... you've got a real stick it to the libbies streak in you don't you? We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. You gave up decades ago. Oh it is not just libbies, it is the whole left area of the spectrum... Nope i gave 34 years to this country, traveled to all the sh!t holes they could find, and it was yes sir no sir the entire time flew my Canada flag in my front yard, put it up at dawn, took it down at dusk, today my flag pole is empty, the flag is in a shadow box along with 8 other flags that i flew during my tours...........and i did that with the best Canada had to offer, with the best Regiment in Canada..........It was Canadian citizens that gave up.....those are the ungrateful. Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
eyeball Posted October 22, 2025 Report Posted October 22, 2025 51 minutes ago, Army Guy said: Oh it is not just libbies, it is the whole left area of the spectrum... Notwithstanding you necessarily, I understand it's become fashionable of late for right wing populists to decry American led western interventionism of the past. They probably blame it on the left now LMAO! 52 minutes ago, Army Guy said: ....It was Canadian citizens that gave up.....those are the ungrateful. Or just got woke to the sham we were usually signed onto and they stopped subscribing to it. I was attending anti-Vietnam war protests when I was a young teen so I was probably compromised right from the beginning from your perspective. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
BeaverFever Posted October 22, 2025 Author Report Posted October 22, 2025 1 hour ago, Army Guy said: What is the point of the first two if your not willing to defend Sovereignty, you said if Russia decides to start taking inhabited islands you would be good with that as long as they stayed away from the main land...most of the artic is made up of islands of various sizes...So what is the point of patrolling the artic, for sovereignty and security if we are not going to defend them ....the question is are they part of Canada, yes, along with everything else for 12 kms around them... along with any resources in those waters... Part of having sovereignty, and security is being able to defend against any aggression...if your not willing to that then you have NO sovereignty at all.... It is why we purchased AOP's, drones, sensors, and now building FOB's in our artic....Yes to patrol and tell the world they are ours ....but we must be able to defend all our interests and borders...In order to do that we must have the means to defend ourselves... or we watch hostile nations just take what they want.... Security and sovereignty are different than war fighting. Canada could never win a war against Russia singlehandedly so it would be pointless to make that the goal of our arctic strategy. But we are not alone against Russia we are part of a military alliance and Russia is not going to attack and kill NATO forces on their own soil. So they are not going to attack a Canadian AOPS patrolling the arctic even if they have the capability to do so easily. Security and sovereignty is about detecting activity and having a deterrent presence. If we don’t have any assets there at all then the Russians are free to go wherever they want and then the onus is on us to dislodge them by force, which USA might not back us on. The Russians would not go as far as to shoot their way past even a lightly armed Canadian security force, they could however waltz in on unguarded territory and then just say “we’re here now, what are you going to do about it?” 1 hour ago, Army Guy said: In case of a US military invasion, it would be over before you woke up the next morning...And some how Canadian civilians are suppose to gather up their bolt action hunting rifles and defend the country....I thought you were ex military....cyber attacks alone could shut down Canada's power grid, airports, train stations, road networks, do that during the winter, during say X-mas holidays when 3/4 of our military are scatter across the country, most other networks are on minimum manning, Canadians are in different areas of the country visiting family no access to any survival gear...Turning the power grid off for more than a week would kill millions...People would not be thinking about taking up arms. they would be in survival mode....trying to fed and defend their families....Throw in all of that a few direct attacks on population centers to cause mass panic and poof....4 red necks from Louisiana could take over the country in air boats...OK maybe 6.... As for those in the US, close those border crossings....with military forces....and even if some of them got through there is not going to be any support or logistics for them to stay for long... The invasion would be over instantly. The OCCUPATION would be impossible. Canada is like 23 times the size of Iraq and there’s no way the US military could occupy it entirely OR secure the world’s longest binational border which means US military would have to secure the entire North American continent from Alaska to Florida. The resistance won’t need rifles as much in the age of the deadly homemade drone and IED but there are plenty of firearms to be obtained in USA. And that’s assuming that foreign powers aren’t smuggling aid to us. As for cyberattacks and otherwise destroying Canada, Canada has its own cybersecurity and Canadians have their own computer geeks able to hack back. Cyber is actually the great equalizer because capabilities are much more equal between countries. Furthermore USA would want to keep Canada’s economy intact not destroy it. It wouldn’t help them to share the world’s longest border with a ruined failed state. Their goal for annexing Canada would be to add a shiny jewel to their crown not to smash the jewel into shit and devalue the crown they already have Quote
Venandi Posted October 22, 2025 Report Posted October 22, 2025 (edited) 9 hours ago, BeaverFever said: Security and sovereignty are different than war fighting. Ya, different critters but I'd argue that all three require "showing up." And that isn't our strong suit IMO. Remember the Turbot... it's a flat fish most people had never even heard of before they heard of it for the first time. I thought we might collectively learn a few lessons from that because making a show of defending that little fish taxed our maritime resources pretty heavily... and that was at a time when there was arguably more resources to tax. Here's another thought, maybe the idea of community defence should include a coastal flotilla of expendable canoes with small cannons in the bow to replace the shore bombardment (NGS) capability that the Herbs of the world opined we didn't need in a modern world. Their arguments against it included the idea that things like TASMO (as a for instance) made more sense. The same Herbs now argue against the need for modern fighters without remembering what they said about NGS back then or even considering that (among other things), fighters protect airspace and airspace is what the rest of your Air Force operates in. It doesn't take much in the way of imagination to compile an updated list of "what did you think was going to happen" questions to be placed in an envelope marked "open in 20 years." Maybe it's the canaries of today that become the sage prophets of tomorrow... the "we don't need heavy lift helicopters" argument is actually my favourite to date, those arguments aged pretty poorly in Afghanistan. It's a bit like listening to the Cov1diots of today who insist that they're "following the science" but still can't (or won't) discuss that science at a high school biology level. Edited October 22, 2025 by Venandi 1 Quote
Army Guy Posted October 22, 2025 Report Posted October 22, 2025 17 hours ago, eyeball said: Notwithstanding you necessarily, I understand it's become fashionable of late for right wing populists to decry American led western interventionism of the past. They probably blame it on the left now LMAO! Or just got woke to the sham we were usually signed onto and they stopped subscribing to it. I was attending anti-Vietnam war protests when I was a young teen so I was probably compromised right from the beginning from your perspective. Well if you look at our past history and take a look at whom was in charge of the government of the time and i think you'll find that the liberals have deployed our military more than any conservative government has...lets also remind you it was liberal governments that deployed our military against Canadians...OKA, FLQ crises, and there is more. And i know they desperately wanted to bring in tanks to clear the convoy in Ottawa.....So lets not pretend this is strictly a right wing agenda thing.. When our history clearly tells a different story... No that's not it, Canadians don't care about their military, unless you had family or relatives serving it really did not enter into the minds of Canadians. And with out popular support from the people , everything quickly slide down hill...like a lot of things here in Canada has...Canadians don't really care about anything unless it enters their little bubbles...Do you really think that Carneys interest in our military is from popular with Canadians ...no it was because Trump gave him his marching orders... Good for you it is one of those rights that every Canadian should hold on to , the right to protest , of course unless your protesting the liberals then things fall apart... Not sure why you protested the Vietnam war, unless your American...but you go girl....I grew up in a military family with a long history of service so my morals and values differed, i was expected of me to serve my nation like it was part of my duty as a citizen...My son and daughter both are serving today.. for the same reasons... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
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