The end of Canadian dream

[myata]

1 hour ago, Moonbox said:

That's 100% certain.  Portugal is poor.  It's not even close.

You think repetition adds confidence, though it doesn't. It's not hard to do the math: with a $30K service job (or two if not full time), one would have nothing left, monthly $0, zilch. Same for a coupe with kids. This is the existence on the level of basic survival and it's the current reality in this segment that is sucking more and more Canadians (and should the public sector sink quite likely the majority). One time handouts will change nothing in this picture. In this situation a place with much lower housing, inexpensive food and necessities almost certainly wins.

The bottom line: there's no "we" in Canada anymore. The claim or promise of broad and stable prosperity did not materialize. The main achievement of the last few decades, I guess.

Edited July 6, 2023 by myata

[Moonbox]

27 minutes ago, myata said:

You think repetition adds confidence, though it doesn't. It's not hard to do the math: with a $30K service job (or two if not full time), one would have nothing left, monthly $0, zilch. Same for a coupe with kids. This is the existence on the level of basic survival and it's the current reality in this segment that is sucking more and more Canadians (and should the public sector sink quite likely the majority).

Sure, but that's the bottom-end of the Canadian income spectrum, but above-average in Portugal.  The Portuguese still have to pay world-market prices for things like gasoline, construction materials, manufactured goods etc, and if even if their bread and wine is less expensive, they still can't afford the things we can.  

I'm laying facts out to you, and you're laying out nothing but feels.  

27 minutes ago, myata said:

The bottom line: there's no "we" in Canada anymore. The claim or promise of broad and stable prosperity did not materialize. The main achievement of the last few decades, I guess.

?

EVERYTHING is BAD.  We have to do SOMETHING.  

[Nefarious Banana]

6 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

Sure, but that's the bottom-end of the Canadian income spectrum, but above-average in Portugal.  The Portuguese still have to pay world-market prices for things like gasoline, construction materials, manufactured goods etc, and if even if their bread and wine is less expensive, they still can't afford the things we can.  

This isn't Portugal . . . . .  We had it better and it's not wrong or selfish to strive for a return of our good times.  This will only be done with a change of the bumbling Federal Liberals

[Moonbox]

1 minute ago, Nefarious Banana said:

This isn't Portugal . . . . .  We had it better and it's not wrong or selfish to strive for a return of our good times.  This will only be done with a change of the bumbling Federal Liberals

Of course it's not Portugal, and I'd even agree things used to be better.  That being said, myata was trying to compare Portuguese "prosperity" to Canada, and that's dumb.  

[myata]

1 hour ago, Moonbox said:

but that's the bottom-end of the Canadian income spectrum, but above-average in Portugal. 

No. Indeed there are different strata in the society and below the level of basic survival is only abject poverty. To proclaim a society prosperous or "high living standard" abstract average number isn't enough, and not even close. One has to demonstrate that the groups below the level of reasonable prosperity are a small minority in the society.

Canada is heading toward a social layout where the two groups, poverty and basic survival will be a majority if not already. The data on median income, $39,500 confirms that, as it is very close to the survival level, and of the lower half, 7 - 10% on the income level of poverty. You can't claim a society like that being "prosperous", you would only be deceiving yourself and others with an irrelevant number.

Edited July 6, 2023 by myata

[Moonbox]

Sure, that's all fine to argue about.  Just don't compare us unfavorably to Portugal and Romania etc.  ?

[I am Groot]

1 hour ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

They’re not great countries. Wandering off the beaten path to explore the unknown wouldn’t be wise in any of them. Three are oppressive police states. The fourth, Nigeria, is a very dodgy place to visit these days. By contrast, in Canada I don’t fear the state or its people. It’s a good feeling. 

Given the native crime rate, maybe you ought to.

[I am Groot]

1 hour ago, Contrarian said:

Yes, so why don't you follow your leaders, I know who Sowell is too, and spent some time listening to him thinking he will solve my problems, for me, now that I look back, it was actually to validate some ignorant views I had instead of doing my part to improve society. 

And what ignorant views do you think Thomas Sowell was putting out?

1 hour ago, Contrarian said:

b) Move out of the country to where you think is better.

The odd thing about (b) is that it's really only something you should say to someone who moved here from somewhere else in the first place. Because they, at least, have that option. Yet it's considered a horrible thing to do to suggest someone who isn't happy go back where they came from. On the other hand, it seems fine to suggest it to someone born here who really doesn't have any options.

Please explain these 'contrarian' attitudes towards the invitation to leave Canada.

1 hour ago, Contrarian said:

c) Do your part as an individual to improve society, and start different things, information travels like a domino. Positive things, innovation, outside-the-box solutions. @Michael Hardner mentioned that idea. 

I'm doing my part to improve society by educating the ignorant.

1 hour ago, Contrarian said:

d) Start a revolution like the truckers to put ilk like Pat King as a monarch ?, whoever does that, will end up in handcuffs sooner or later. 

Given how easy it was for determined but relatively small groups to put people like Jagmeet Singh and Doug Ford into the leadership position of their parties I expect that one day someone will do that with someone who will make Pat King seem like a reasonable man. And then you'll see populism at its worst that might actually win power.

Soon less than half the population will be native born, after all. That's going to change how laid-back and passive most Canadians are about being screwed over. You'll start seeing more stuff like the Muslims protesting against pride day at schools. Rabble rousing will be much easier.

[myata]

50 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

Just don't compare us unfavorably to Portugal and Romania

Well, that's a question and as it looks in the reality rather than The Great Rosy Picture Book, not at all an obvious conclusion. Romania's prosperous segment can be much smaller than Canada's OK but as for Portugal, we'll just have to see.

Edited July 6, 2023 by myata

[Moonbox]

50 minutes ago, myata said:

Well, that's a question and as it looks in the reality rather than The Great Rosy Picture Book, not at all an obvious conclusion. Romania's prosperous segment can be much smaller than Canada's OK but as for Portugal, we'll just have to see.

It's no question.  We don't have to wait and see.  Your ramblings don't change that.  ?

[herbie]

2 hours ago, Moonbox said:

to strive for a return of our good times.

The cry of the Northern MAGA

Tell us when, just when when things were 'better' than they are right now.

[I am Groot]

1 hour ago, Contrarian said:

1. Generalizations and Oversimplifications, I am surprised in 2023 people still listen to this one, but if it works for you to make you a better person, go right ahead. I know when I was listening to him, was to validate things about race, the economy. "He says what I think, so he must be correct." ?

Perhaps you can give me an example rather than make sweeping statements. And btw, what is your education that you dismiss what the professor has to say in his numerous books and studies?

1 hour ago, Contrarian said:

2. I suggest it to both, new immigrants complainers + folks that are born here to take advantage of this open society, to invest in a passport. How many immigrants came to Canada with no language skills and succeeded? So a local that is not happy with this country, can get a passport, and go into Portugal, Germany, or Nordic Countries, and start there, the fact that you have English, is already an advantage.

Are you suggesting people illegally emigrate to other countries?

Are you suggesting anyone who finds flaws and faults in society should simply leave rather than making their views on these flaws and faults public?

1 hour ago, Contrarian said:

3. How? By pointing the finger at the flaws consistently and saying others are better? 

That sounds like the complaint of those who are complacent and don't want to ever improve society.

1 hour ago, Contrarian said:

 and 5 are contracting themselves, how is populism going to come if Canadians are passive? Muslim populism? 

Half the population will be foreign-born. They're not complacent like so many Canadians.

[myata]

Median income in the country is close to $40K, an equivalent of a $20 / hour service job, on the level of a basic survival at the current prices. A half of the population makes less. Hurray! Can it get better still?

Edited July 6, 2023 by myata

[TreeBeard]

21 minutes ago, herbie said:

The cry of the Northern MAGA

Tell us when, just when when things were 'better' than they are right now.

I would say just prior to COVID things were better.  But I’m having a hard time blaming a leader or sitting government for that….  

[Moonbox]

23 minutes ago, herbie said:

The cry of the Northern MAGA

Tell us when, just when when things were 'better' than they are right now.

You've quoted the wrong person.  Don't call me MAGA.  ?

[herbie]

sorry- picking quotes from within another got me again

[myata]

I may have figured it out, look. It just may be hereditary, genetic memory. The whole economy began with one monopolistic supplier trading all kinds of good stuff to settler peasants selling, guessing, with outrageous margin and buying for peanuts because, guess why. That inborn DNA laid out the tradition for centuries. Just turn ten degrees left or twenty to the right.. is there any direction or angle you DO NOT see some monopoly? Makes sense, no?

[myata]

Why Canadian potatoes had to jump up to 50% and more, in less than a year? What is "inflation", per potato, who has seen it, not heard? World potato market, yes explains everything?

No, seriously, this pandemic has changed something. Of course the mindless run has run its course long before, but it needed a nudge, the final stamp of approval. No conventions, traditions, no shame just do it because you can.

That was fast. And in a few years, we may no longer recognize the country. Why would we?

 

[myata]

Canada's attractive sides used to be cheap food and affordable housing. Both are gone, in a pandemic eyeblink. In a decade or two we could see an entirely different country.

I kind of see the thinking behind the Libs massive immigration drive. It's quite obvious: in two centuries nothing much has changed. The economy remains to a very large extent colonial type: export dependent, demanding imports of basic dependencies. Controlled by export/import/distribution monopolies. Basic internal market, has not formed. So how do you fix it? You get it somewhere else of course, and bring it over. Like it ever happens but worth a try. Where? China and India and third world (do check the numbers). Will it work? Wrong question: there's simply no other options.

So the prosperity numbers will plummet. And after the inevitable public budget crunch, the resource economy will be nowhere enough to support the new reality. We will begin seeing it unfolding in the next decade or two.. or maybe even these days. The mindless ride has run its course.