Taxpayer funded drag queen camp for 13-year-olds in Winnipeg

CdnFox · June 14, 2023

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. How is acting as a woman and singing a song not theatre ? Not performance ?

You know the answer - and so do they. If it was they'd call it theatre camp and you wouldn't have a problem calling it 'drag thing training'.

But they don't and you do. So we all know it's different. If you want to know why just ask yourself why you felt you couldn't call it what they do.

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It's "Drag Training" by definition, yes.

Which you couldn't even say. You had to 'pretend' it was 'theatre' which it clearly isn't. THis isn't about performance, it's about teaching people to pass as women in and out of a theatre setting. And you knew that so you wanted to try to pretend otherwise to sidestep that issue.

If you have to use deceit to make your point....

As to grooming, like i said as long as it's with parental consent and there's nothing hidden about what it is (which there doesn't seem to be - THEY don't pretend its theatre) then that's a parental choice if they want their kid to be a drag thing. BUT - a lot of people will have an issue with it and they're doing it with TAXPAYERS MONEY - and THAT is not particularly fair and it's going to create division and friction and anti-gay sentiment we don't need right now. Taxpayer funded groups should not be teaching 13 year olds to be 'drag things'. If you're a theatre group - stick to theatre.

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Do you really think you’ll accomplish anything by going after and canceling these fringe groups and making martyrs out of them?

The taxpayer funded ones? Yes - absolutely. I think it will help calm frictions. I think it's a million times easier to convince people it's none of their business when it's none of their money. I think the fringe groups can self fund. And i think if we don't the backlash will be that when the pendulum swings even the legit theatre groups will wind up getting defunded. Just as the CBC is going to wind up getting defunded because they went too far to the left on the taxpayer's dime.

CdnFox · June 14, 2023

13 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Add: Offering this class is an aggressive act, ie. perpetuating or starting a front in the culture war.

Online scum rag covereage is just innocent journalism, don't you know...

Added: Can someone come over to my house and roll my eyes for me ? I'm tired from all the eye rolling recently...

Keep lying to yourself. Look around and see where it's getting you. Are people getting more accpeting of gays and trans right now?

You started the war - your side insisted it be confrontational and that people had to pick a side.

Now you want to 'roll your eyes' and have it go away. That ain't gonna work. And this ends VERY badly for gays and trans if it continues. But by all means - you keep going.

Michael Hardner · June 14, 2023

2 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

1. You know the answer - and so do they. If it was they'd call it theatre camp and you wouldn't have a problem calling it 'drag thing training'.

2. Which you couldn't even say. You had to 'pretend' it was 'theatre' which it clearly isn't. THis isn't about performance, it's about teaching people to pass as women in and out of a theatre setting. And you knew that so you wanted to try to pretend otherwise to sidestep that issue.

3. If you have to use deceit to make your point....

4. BUT - a lot of people will have an issue with it and they're doing it with TAXPAYERS MONEY - and THAT is not particularly fair .

1. I absolutely don't. It's a drag class within Theatre Camp. It's called 'Drag Class' and I don't have a problem with it.

2. You have to provide some evidence that there is more to this than teaching young people how to sing and dance in other-gender clothing. You're implying that it's about something more but I'm at a loss as to what the purpose would be and why.

3. You are saying that this organization has some secret agenda, and what that is, is so abundantly clear to all that I am lying by challenging it. Well, no. I don't even agree that there's more to this than advertised. Your line of argument here is ridiculous.

4. See posts by me and TreeBeard above about the public's say in how funds are used.

Michael Hardner · June 14, 2023

5 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

1. Keep lying to yourself.

2. Look around and see where it's getting you. Are people getting more accpeting of gays and trans right now?

3. You started the war - your side insisted it be confrontational and that people had to pick a side.

4. Now you want to 'roll your eyes' and have it go away. That ain't gonna work. And this ends VERY badly for gays and trans if it continues. But by all means - you keep going.

1. I'm not lying and you saying it over and over means you have run out of real things to say.
2. Getting me ? I don't have a dog in the fight - I'm not gay just a member of the public who isn't crazy. Drag Shows are done by straight people too, not sure what this has to do with them - much less why a Theatre School class is part of this.
3. People started finding reasons to be EXTREMELY UPSET. Like seeing gay people actually accepted, Pride flags being flown, Trans people promoting beer... and then we got this flareup.

Really, it's misplaced anger in my view, because politicians want to get people to vote for them for ridiculous reasons.

4. I don't think it does end badly for them. More likely, this will blow over like all of the other ridiculous right-wing fads of the past: Boot Camps for young offenders, Muslimi barbaric practices snitch lines... etc. etc. Did they solve anything or were they just flavour-of-the-month to get votes.

Serious question: are you ever concerned about anything real ? Climate Change ? Poverty ?

Nationalist · June 14, 2023

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Yeah, but what if they did ? What would you do ? What if your son was gay ? What exactly would YOU do about that ? What if the first sign was that he wanted to go to drag camp ?

What would you do ? It's not an easy question, no. Parenting is hard.

Ridiculous. People are at the point of assaulting children because they think their haircuts are tomboyish.

Get your people in line, please.

One of my sons is gay...but you knew that already. I wouldn't have let him go to drag camp as a young or pre-teen, and he tells me he thinks the whole idea is stupid.

Michael Hardner · June 14, 2023

1 minute ago, Nationalist said:

1. One of my sons is gay...but you knew that already.
2. I wouldn't have let him go to drag camp as a young or pre-teen, and he tells me he thinks the whole idea is stupid.

1. No, I utterly forgot. I remember now.
2. Ok, why wouldn't you have ? Wasn't he already gay ? I think the idea is kind of stupid too, I'm not a fan of drag... at ALL. But there's lots of things that I'm not a fan of, doesn't mean they should stop it. That, my friend, is 'cancel culture'.

Nationalist · June 14, 2023

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. No, I utterly forgot. I remember now.
2. Ok, why wouldn't you have ? Wasn't he already gay ? I think the idea is kind of stupid too, I'm not a fan of drag... at ALL. But there's lots of things that I'm not a fan of, doesn't mean they should stop it. That, my friend, is 'cancel culture'.

No that, my friend, is calling intentional social rot what it is...social rot.

Its one thing to be attracted to the same sex, and quite another to pretend to be the opposite sex.

CdnFox · June 14, 2023

18 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. I absolutely don't. It's a drag class within Theatre Camp. It's called 'Drag Class' and I don't have a problem with it.

You absolutely did. You called it a theatre class. You DEMANDED it wasn't drag training it was THEATRE!!!! THEATRE I SAAAAY!!!! Now that i've pointed out that proves you knew there was something different about it, NOW suddenly it's ok to pretetnd it's both

Fail. Too late to change tunes now. You obviously did have a problem with it.

20 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

2. You have to provide some evidence that there is more to this than teaching young people how to sing and dance in other-gender clothing. You're implying that it's about something more but I'm at a loss as to what the purpose would be and why.

No - it is up to YOU to prove that it's theatre. The ad says it's "training to be a drag thing" - if it's more than that then YOU have to prove it. And good luck - if it was theatre training they'd call it theatre training.

16 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

3. People started finding reasons to be EXTREMELY UPSET

People have legit concerns and other people such as you try to dodge the issues by gaslighting them into thinking none of their concerns are legit instead of addressing them.

THe problem is they KNOW their concerns are legit. And your attempt to PRETEND they're not just makes people even MORE concerned.

18 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I don't think it does end badly for them.

It's already ending badly for them. Look around you.

Michael Hardner · June 14, 2023

15 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

No that, my friend, is calling intentional social rot what it is...social rot.

Its one thing to be attracted to the same sex, and quite another to pretend to be the opposite sex.

Okay. Well drag has been around since forever. You see it as 'social rot'. Kind of an extreme opinion, I think, given the things that are actually rotting away society right now but ok. Not sure why it's so controversial now, except that people are making it so.

Michael Hardner · June 14, 2023

5 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

1. You called it a theatre class. You DEMANDED it wasn't drag training it was THEATRE!!!! THEATRE I SAAAAY!!!! Now that i've pointed out that proves you knew there was something different about it, NOW suddenly it's ok to pretetnd it's both

2. You obviously did have a problem with it.

3. No - it is up to YOU to prove that it's theatre. The ad says it's "training to be a drag thing" - if it's more than that then YOU have to prove it. And good luck - if it was theatre training they'd call it theatre training.

4. People have legit concerns and other people such as you try to dodge the issues by gaslighting them into thinking none of their concerns are legit instead of addressing them. THe problem is they KNOW their concerns are legit. And your attempt to PRETEND they're not just makes people even MORE concerned.

1. I think I said it was theatre and drag training right ? The point is that I don't care. Here are my quotes from the same post:

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"1. How is acting as a woman and singing a song not theatre ? Not performance ?

2. It's "Drag Training" by definition, yes."

2. No, as I said I would send my own kids so no - no problem.
3. I'm not going to do that. It's an opinion. If you don't think it's theatre then fine. I can prove it's performance, though, if that helps. https://www.dictionary.com/browse/performance

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noun

a musical, dramatic, or other entertainment presented before an audience.

the act of performing a ceremony, play, piece of music, etc.

4. Well... maybe start by saying EXACTLY what the concern is ?

CdnFox · June 14, 2023

40 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. I'm not lying and you saying it over and over means you have run out of real things to say.

I only said you're lying to yourself once Which means you're more in denial than anything.

Any other time i've pointed out where you verifiably lied to me and noted that if you have to lie, then there's a problem with your argument. which is true. You have a bad habit of having to re-write what people said to make your case.

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2. Getting me ? I don't have a dog in the fight

Of course you do - you have an ideological position and it's very clear it's important to you and look at what your efforts are getting you.

45 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

. You are saying that this organization has some secret agenda,

I haven't said that once. In fact i said they seem to be up front about what they're doing. I also said if parents want their kids to go and need to sign off on it then no problem, the problem is taxpayer's money.

See? you keep having to rewrite what people say to make your point. If you have to lie to make a point then you don't have a very good point.

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Serious question: are you ever concerned about anything real ? Climate Change ? Poverty ?

well we both know that's not a serious question. What that is would be yet another in your continuous attempts to gaslight that "Your problmes or concerns are utterly baseless and you have no right to feel that way".

Well - the concerns are real. This is a significant problem. Divisions within our country are causing major issues. Deal with it'

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Well... maybe start by saying EXACTLY what the concern is ?

I have. to you specifically and to others as well.

So that's pretty dishonest on your part.

Edited June 14, 2023 by CdnFox

CdnFox · June 14, 2023

4 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. I think I said it was theatre and drag training right ? The point is that I don't care. Here are my quotes from the same post:

Nope. That was much later. Previously you insisted it was "THEATRE!!!! THEATRE ONLY!!!!!!!"

nice try tho See even here you can't deal with the truth, you've got to try to pretend something different.

You wanted to insist it was just theatre. And it's not.

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2. No, as I said I would send my own kids so no - no problem.

Nobody asked if you'd send your kids. You had a problem with referring to it as 'drag thing training". you wanted to call it theatre. Your kids have nothing to do with it.

I get that this is a usual sort of game for you and it might work with some people but sorry - i'm far too intelligent for that kind of elementary school nonsense. The real question is why are you feeling the need to resort to elementary school nonsense instead of addressing the issues?

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3. I'm not going to do that.

Of course not - you can't. The fact is that it ISN'T theatre, so you can't prove it is Very simple.

Michael Hardner · June 14, 2023

5 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

1. Of course you do - you have an ideological position and it's very clear it's important to you and look at what your efforts are getting you.

2. See? you keep having to rewrite what people say to make your point.

3. Divisions within our country are causing major issues. Deal with it

1. What efforts ? I have an opinion, yes, but expressing it or ... holding it (?) ... isn't much effort at all.
2. I'm trying to understand, because your point is utterly mysterious to me at times.
3. So - True North scumbag news posts an article about a Drag Class.... who is causing the division here ? The people who are sending their kids to study Drag or the weirdos who are telling me that I'm abnormal for sending my kids there if they want to go ?

Michael Hardner · June 14, 2023

2 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

1. That was much later. Previously you insisted it was "THEATRE!!!! THEATRE ONLY!!!!!!!"

2. Your kids have nothing to do with it.

3. The real question is why are you feeling the need to resort to elementary school nonsense instead of addressing the issues?

1. Ok quote me then, where I said 'Theatre Only'. It's possible to be both right ?
2. I think SOMEBODY above asked me...
3. I might call this a loaded question...

Apparently my witchcraft and trickery has no effect on someone so intelligent as you. I'm sobbing right now.

So let's get to the crux of the matter - my question: "start by saying EXACTLY what the concern is ?"

What exactly is the concern with teaching people drag ? And you not liking it isn't a good reason to convince me.

Nefarious Banana · June 14, 2023

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

.I have explained that I'm not a Trudeau fan and they don't know how to be smart with money so none of this surprises me.

Mike, do you honestly believe that members here think of you as a conservative thinker? At every opportunity you defend Justin Trudeau's appalling governance. This gender bending 'grooming camp' for non-adults, that you support with public money, is just another example of your somewhat 'bent' thought process' . . . .

Michael Hardner · June 14, 2023

Just now, Nefarious Banana said:

1. Mike, do you honestly believe that members here think of you as a conservative thinker? At every opportunity you defend Justin Trudeau's appalling governance.

2. This gender bending 'grooming camp' for non-adults, that you support with public money, is just another example of your somewhat 'bent' thought process' . . . .

1. I don't care what other people think of me. I post here to express my thoughts, and learn from others.

If you can find more than 1 post where I "defend" Trudeau I'd be interested. I think I have given relative compliments here and there on some aspect of governance but I have criticized him far more.

People confuse me picking apart unbased criticism for defending someone, but it's an error to do so.

2. Your opinion. I would say that you don't get to 'cancel' things that make you uncomfortable, and I don't either. Difference is that I don't WANT to cancel things like hunting, public money for events that I think are stupid or unnecessary. If people can articulate why drag is "wrong" other than "because it is" or some other opinion then I would like to hear that.

CdnFox · June 14, 2023

3 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. What efforts ? I have an opinion, yes, but expressing it or ... holding it (?) ... isn't much effort at all.

The efforts you go through to be deceptive and dishonest seem pretty high to me. Mind you - that kind of thing might be harder for me so i may be overjudging it.

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2. I'm trying to understand, because your point is utterly mysterious to me at times.

My point is clear as crystal to anyone over the age of 6 who has elementary reading skils. I've stated it clearly. The problem is you spend so much time trying to dodge the issue and obfuscate that you lose track.

I'm familiar with this game as well - the popular leftist tactic of forcing the person to repeat their point over and over hoping that at some point they'll state it in a way where you can nit pick at it or something else they say to change the conversation. The issues i've raised are extremely clear

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3. So - True North scumbag news posts an article about a Drag Class.... who is causing the division here ?

The true left scumbag who's trying to gaslight that there is no issue rather than address it.

it's simple enough - address the concern raised or agree that it's a concern and perhaps things should be done differently - but NOoooo - "YOU'RE ALL BAD PEOPLE FOR EVEN THINKING THAT WAY JUST LIKE THIS 'SCUMBAG' REPORTER". REEEEEEEEE

You've spent a massive amount of time and energy here dancing around the very simple issues RATHER than say 'olk i can see the concern, lets look at it rationally'.

WHAT - YOU'RE CRAZY! It's just THEATRE!

WHAT- YOU"RE CRAZY!, YOU THINK IT"S GROOMING (even tho you never said that)

WHAT - YOU'RE CRAZY!, THE SOURCE is the PROBLEM HERE!! (even tho it's factually accurate!)

WHAT - YOU'RE CRAZY - YOU have to prove they're doing more than they actually say they're doing which is actually MY claim but I"m not gonna do that....

etc etc.

Sigh.

And this is why people fear the left has a 'secret agenda' for their kids. It was a simple concern - yet look at the effort spent trying to avoid it,

CdnFox · June 14, 2023

10 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Ok quote me then, where I said 'Theatre Only'. It's possible to be both right ?
2. I think SOMEBODY above asked me...
3. I might call this a loaded question...

Apparently my witchcraft and trickery has no effect on someone so intelligent as you. I'm sobbing right now.

So let's get to the crux of the matter - my question: "start by saying EXACTLY what the concern is ?"

What exactly is the concern with teaching people drag ? And you not liking it isn't a good reason to convince me.

Blah blah blah, dishonest as usual. It's sad you can't bring yourself to have even one honest discussion.

It's painfully obvious you wanted to pretend it was only theatre. Anyone reading the thread can see it.

It's painfully obvious your debate style is to avoid the actual issue at all costs and no, it doesn't work on me and yes its obvious that's a little upsetting to you.

I've told you the concern several times very clearly and i'm not playing this little game where you keep asking every 5 minutes like a 7 year old saying 'are we there yet are we there yet?"

You obviously know there's a problem with this or you wouldn't avoid the simple issue like this. So that's basically all that needed to be said.

5 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

2. Your opinion. I would say that you don't get to 'cancel' things that make you uncomfortable,

But you fully support the idea that you should be forced to pay for it.

You are 100 percent liberal. Sorry, your policy speaks louder than your decleration.

Michael Hardner · June 14, 2023

11 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

1. 'olk i can see the concern, lets look at it rationally'.

Lots of hysterical arm waving in that post, which I will ignore as I have waved the flag, admitted your superior intelligence and how want to talk about "the issue" "the concern" or what have you.

1. I don't see the concern, other than people thinking it's "gross" which is not rational, it's an opinion.

6 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

2. I've told you the concern several times very clearly

2. I mean you called it "Drag Training" "Grooming" or whatever... not sure. But what is the CONCERN ? Please indulge me in repeating it one last time as I'm not as bright as you.

CdnFox · June 14, 2023

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

Lots of hysterical arm waving in that post, which I will ignore as I have waved the flag, admitted your superior intelligence and how want to talk about "the issue" "the concern" or what have you.

Yes - saying 'lets look at the concern rationally' is definitely 'hysterical hand waving'.

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I mean you called it "Drag Training" "Grooming" or whatever... not sure.

Well THEY called it drag training and drag thing training. That's what they called it - that's what i called it. Didn't call it grooming that i recall. But even tho that's literally how they're advertising it - drag training - somehow that's my fault.

Silly leftie - tricks are for kids!

Come back when you feel like an honest conversation.

Michael Hardner · June 14, 2023

32 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

1. But even tho that's literally how they're advertising it - drag training - somehow that's my fault.

1. Ok - let's say that this class is DRAG TRAINING.

So my son comes to me and says "Dad, I love seeing girls like Mariah Carey sing songs and I want to sing just like them - can I take DRAG TRAINING at the Theatre Workshop this summer ?"

We talk about it, and then I eventually say "Sure, son, if that's what makes you happy let's look into enrolling you."

My decision as a parent, based on what my son wants. No problem that I can see.

herbie · June 14, 2023

OMG!!! The lefties have brought back "Kids in the Hall" just so the Chicken Lady can groom your children !

Michael Hardner · June 14, 2023

7 minutes ago, herbie said:

Chicken Lady can groom your children !

Chicken lady is a concern. There's an issue. There's "Controversy". ?

Nefarious Banana · June 14, 2023

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Ok - let's say that this class is DRAG TRAINING.
So my son comes to me and says "Dad, I love seeing girls like Mariah Carey sing songs and I want to sing just like them - can I take DRAG TRAINING at the Theatre Workshop this summer ?"
We talk about it, and then I eventually say "Sure, son, if that's what makes you happy let's look into enrolling you."

My decision as a parent, based on what my son wants. No problem that I can see.

Is your son 18yrs old . . . or is he 12 ?

CdnFox · June 14, 2023

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Ok - let's say that this class is DRAG TRAINING.

Sounds reasonable - that's what THEY'RE calling it after all. I don't know why that was so challenging for you

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So my son comes to me and says "Dad, I love seeing girls like Mariah Carey sing songs and I want to sing just like them - can I take DRAG TRAINING at the Theatre Workshop this summer ?"

We talk about it, and then I eventually say "Sure, son, if that's what makes you happy let's look into enrolling you."

My decision as a parent, based on what my son wants. No problem that I can see.

So you agree with my previous statements then? Where i said numerous times that as long as the adult signs off on it there's no problem?

Ok. And?

The issue i had was making taxpayers fund the groups doing it. Soooo - why are you avoiding the issue to ask me about something i've already stated my position on?