Public Health Agency report calls for toppling capitalism and ending liberty

[blackbird]

42 minutes ago, Contrarian said:

downfall of capitalism and going after individualism,

Capitalism and individualism is exactly what Rome opposes.  They do not like individual freedom.  That's what the Reformation had a lot to do with and they have been opposing it ever since, trying to turn the calender backwards.  The only reason we have freedom in this country is because of the Reformation which was a rejection of Romanism.  Why do you think we have free speech and democracy?  It never existed before the Reformation.  Thank the great Reformers like Luther, Calvin and John Knox and the martyrs that were burned at the stake.

The Protestant Reformation - Bing video

Edited April 20, 2023 by blackbird

[I am Groot]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

No, driving off a cliff works for me.

Don't forget you're taking to someone who burns around a 100 litres of fuel on a slow day at work. Heck, I even chop down trees to heat my home!

Hyperbole works for me as well if it's all we have to work with.

You didn't give me much to work with aside from a complaint that we're all driving off a cliff because of conservatives. What kind of careful reply did you expect from that?

[herbie]

[I am Groot]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. It's still a criticism of people, saying that because they bring an ideology they can't be practical.

Okay. Explain the practicality of this.

Ultimately, the report concludes that climate change and poor public health are caused by many of the same things: “White supremacy, capitalism, colonialism, and racism.”

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

2. If your accusation is accurate, then you're calling an expression of values unrealistic.  It's kind of like saying "liking cats is incorrect".  Are you critiquing the values or not ?

I'm critiquing the lack of science and the injection of far-left ideological nonsense in its place.

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

3. Ok, well so be it.  It's still a question of values it seems to me.
4. So... conservatives have disdain for universities because people with degrees reflect values they disagree with ?   Is that a new thing or ?

Oh, stop playing games. 

 

[eyeball]

19 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

You didn't give me much to work with aside from a complaint that we're all driving off a cliff because of conservatives. What kind of careful reply did you expect from that?

Well, for starters I think we got off on the wrong foot with your thread title which is simply the opinion of someone whose job it is to captivate with hyperbole.

As expected, I didn't see the word woke or anything about toppling capitalism and ending liberty in the Executive Summary or Conclusions of the PHA report.  Yes it certainly contains the sort of academic verbiage one can expect to trigger many in this day and age which probably explains the experts who contributed to or were interviewed for this report that appear concerned the report would in fact trigger people.

Otherwise, there is nothing at all unscientific or wrong in the essential facts and conclusions that our current socioeconomic course with regard to capitalistic exploitation of our planet's resources and people must change or else.... we'll drive it off a cliff, so to speak. It also makes sense this will have a negative impact on people's health. This report is not saying anything new at all, it's saying the same thing you've probably been resisting all your life with a different voice through a different perspective is all.

 

[I am Groot]

33 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Otherwise, there is nothing at all unscientific or wrong in the essential facts and conclusions that our current socioeconomic course with regard to capitalistic exploitation of our planet's resources and people must change or else.... we'll drive it off a cliff, so to speak.

Just to start with, what's with the "capitalistic exploitation"? Do you imagine socialist countries don't exploit natural resources? The Soviets certainly did. Venezuela does. China does. What socioeconomic system do you believe would fail to exploit the planet's resources? I don't know of one. So why even mention capitalism? The only countries which seem to show any care for protecting the earth and cutting pollution are the Capitalist countries of the West. It's non-Western countries that are throwing up coal plants by the score. It's non-western countries with little or no pollution controls.

And the bullshit about natives being 'stewards of the land' fails to take into account that the natives, when here alone, didn't exploit the earth because they didn't know how. It's not like they were so close to the earth they couldn't bear to cut down giant trees or dig up the earth. They just couldn't. They don't seem to be all that reluctant to engage in forestry and mining on property they own today.

Our socioeconomic system is also investing hundreds of billions in alternative energy and pollution control technologies. Which we have because of Capitalism. 

33 minutes ago, eyeball said:

It also makes sense this will have a negative impact on people's health. This report is not saying anything new at all, it's saying the same thing you've probably been resisting all your life with a different voice through a different perspective is all.

You mean like all our health problems are due to white supremacy and racism?

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

1. Okay. Explain the practicality of this.

Ultimately, the report concludes that climate change and poor public health are caused by many of the same things: “White supremacy, capitalism, colonialism, and racism.”

2. I'm critiquing the lack of science and the injection of far-left ideological nonsense in its place.

3. Oh, stop playing games. 

 

1. The practicality of the National Post mischaracterizing the report ?  It gets people angry and they post on forums to get click's I'm guessing.  We already saw that the NP says the report calls for capitalism to be toppled but it doesn't.  As for the quote here:

 

Quote

Five guiding messages emerged to inform such bold and transformative action for public health in Canada:

1. Human health and well-being depend on healthy ecosystems.
2. Systemic drivers of negative health outcomes and climate change overlap; white supremacy, capitalism, colonialism, and racism must be addressed.
3. Barriers to addressing climate change in public health are known and must be addressed systemically.
4. There is vision and local leadership for addressing health and climate change within the public health field, if it is given the latitude, capacity, and investments to rise to the challenges.
5. Public health and well-being must be centred in decision-making across all sectors and all levels of government.

It's not as crazy as the NP makes it out, I guess.

2. I guess you could say these things are not factors but that wouldn't be "science" either, it would be values.  Since this is essentially a survey of policy leaders, public health professionals and not doctors then it's not a scientific paper.  I get that you don't agree with these things being included but if they had said "efficiency" "international competitiveness" and "economic value" you would likely agree right ?  

The thing is, those things are included but not stated because the Liberals are virtue signalling.

3.  I think we're both being played.  But saying "where's the science ?" is something people will throw at you when they want to de-emphasize values, and "rights" or "what the people want" or "freedom of choice" get played when they want to emphasize them.

For what it's worth I also don't see much value in the paper but a foreign-funded body, paid for with Trudeau $ should have a higher standard than that when trying to influence our policy.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

Just to start with, what's with the "capitalistic exploitation"? Do you imagine socialist countries don't exploit natural resources? The Soviets certainly did. Venezuela does. China does. What socioeconomic system do you believe would fail to exploit the planet's resources? I don't know of one. So why even mention capitalism?

You're right let's pare it down to just exploitation.  Why mention ideology, nationality or socio-economics at all?

Quote

The only countries which seem to show any care for protecting the earth and cutting pollution are the Capitalist countries of the West. It's non-Western countries that are throwing up coal plants by the score. It's non-western countries with little or no pollution controls.

This was increasingly obvious 25 years ago, about the time I was cancelled in these parts for suggesting no truck nor trade with countries that have even less regard for human beings.  Western countries exploited these qualities too and not always just vicariously.  Never ones to not learn from example some of these non-Western nations have gotten in on the truckin' and tradin' with even more odious regimes.  

Quote

And the bullshit about natives being 'stewards of the land' fails to take into account that the natives, when here alone, didn't exploit the earth because they didn't know how. It's not like they were so close to the earth they couldn't bear to cut down giant trees or dig up the earth. They just couldn't. They don't seem to be all that reluctant to engage in forestry and mining on property they own today.

So what when its the exploitation that matters?  In any case I think their inclusion gives weight to the idea that its better to be closer to the earth to help prevent over-exploitation.  And of course when you see the way a country like China can exploit things it eliminates the need to mention the whiteness of the exploiters and zero in on the what instead of the who.

Quote

Our socioeconomic system is also investing hundreds of billions in alternative energy and pollution control technologies. Which we have because of Capitalism. 

With the greatest reluctance and about a couple of decades and a trillion dollars short...probably because of (hit it!) Money money money money...MONEY!

Quote

You mean like all our health problems are due to white supremacy and racism?

No not due, but definitely exacerbated by supremacy and racism, wherever it exists.

Edited April 21, 2023 by eyeball

[CdnFox]

At the end of the day, this is pretty odious. That a gov't body would produce a report that basically says that the gov't is illegitimate and should be destroyed and that the people of the country are bad people is shameful.

All this does is spread more hatred and division. I used to think the left's goal was to replace our society with its own communist or socialist utopia but honestly i think these days they're mostly people who just want to watch everything burn.

[myata]

9 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Don't you want to talk about ideas or are we done with that ? 

Holy h@ck Michael I'm only asking for a minor tiny thing: an out. Off the money train. You pay for all the great ideas in the world but out of your pocket, not mine and I'd rather leave that to me but thanks for asking. Do we have a deal? Is it too much to ask really?

No stop dreaming, time to admit the obvious: we're screwed big, big way here. See the bureaucracy owns it, us, the healthcare it runs it and decides what it means, modern hospitals, sufficient capacity and policies that always make sense or tons of reports on aboriginal capitalism out your pocket. Seriously, it's been two centuries in the making and it's way past pretenses. Just refill this bottomless bucket annually and tha.. no just get lost asap and why are you still around?

So we have this monstrous behemoth right in the center of its bureaucratic universe and no chance, not even a glimpse of hope of any alternative anywhere in the infinite perspective. Do you call that "screwed" yet?

[myata]

What the f@ck is "health and climate change"? When did that happen? How? Did we even notice or care to notice anything that's been developing here of late?

Do we still have the health, like sufficient and modern capacity, no permanent crises, no panic waves every flu-like epidemics? Or it's mostly the latter already? How do these things happen here? Do we even want... forget it, when was the last time we wanted to know?

Edited April 21, 2023 by myata

[Guest]

8 hours ago, CdnFox said:

All this does is spread more hatred and division

Thats the point. 

Divide and conquer. Highly effective, politically. 

Shaming people, is also effective in leveling the playing field. You then have to toe the line to be allowed into the acceptable means. Negging can get an ugly man a gorgeous model, for a reason.

In China they have point systems, that reward good behavior. 

Education camps, shaming and the like, for those who do not.

Benefit is education camps would be undemocratic. We use more modern tools, like cancel culture, doxxing and vandalism, to name a few.

[Guest]

The beauty of ending liberty.

At least China does it to achieve social order. We're doing it to "level" the playing field, but all I see in such efforts are making petty theft racist.

This is the far lefts idea of fixing disparity. Not to give thieves a jail record. You know, vs remedying why they need to steal in the first place.

That, or encouraging tent cities, facilitating injecting drugs, and the beautiful aroma of kilometers of human bodily and actual waste, litering sidewalks in a city near you!

Progress! *breathes a sigh of relief*