gun ban

[sharkman]

In Virginia they relaxed gun laws and found that there was no difference in gun crimes.

[scribblet]

American cities that have banned handguns have experienced dramatic drops in the rate of usage in crimes. Chicago dropped by almost a third in murders immediately following the ban.

Of course, the gun lovers claim it was the tighter policing that was responsible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well I'm no gun lover, but making a campaign promise to ban something thats allready banned is a little, well,.....and this isn't the U.S. If they did implement tighter policing at the same time, then its likely that it factored into the statistics.

[Vancouver King]

Scriblett:

[Well I'm no gun lover, but making a campaign promise to ban something thats allready banned is a little, well,.....and this isn't the U.S. If they did implement tighter policing at the same time, then its likely that it factored into the statistics.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think Andrew Coyne had an interesting spin on the handgun announcement. The chorus of opposition that arose was identical to that of the original gun registry, ie. Tories, gun owners, Western farmers, and served to contrast the Conservatives to other parties.

The legal right to own a handgun is not exactly a priority for urban Canada and reaction to Martin's statement served to push the CPC further from the political centre.

[crazymf]

Well, I'm not going to resort to name calling, but suffice it to say that Martin has been put in my 'putz' file for some time. Like most prairie rural type people, I'm waiting for the gun laws to go byebye when the right government gets in power. Until then, we ignore them and carry on like normal.

My 22 is really going to cause problems.....not. Except for a few gophers.

And my shotgun.......dangerdangerdanger!!!!.......except over 150 feet away. My nearest neighbor is 1/4 mile away.

Gun laws suck to begin with, and Mr. Martin sounds more like the idiot he is every time I hear him spout his drivel.

Ok, just a little name calling....

[tml12]

Yah, like the criminals are going to register anything, keep dreaming!  I heard someone say on TV, if they outlaw handguns the only people who will have them will be outlaws.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very true Sharkman...

[kimmy]

American cities that have banned handguns have experienced dramatic drops in the rate of usage in crimes. Chicago dropped by almost a third in murders immediately following the ban.

Of course, the gun lovers claim it was the tighter policing that was responsible.

Banning handguns in Chicago probably made a real difference. Banning something that's been legally available and widespread amongst law-abiding people is most certainly going to have a dramatic effect.

Banning handguns in Canada, on the otherhand... come on, eureka. You're smart enough to know the difference and recognize what a misleading argument you've just presented. Your argument probably sounds very persuasive to stupid people, however-- much like the "handgun ban" itself.

-k

{I mean, come on. Weren't you even a little embarrassed at what you've just posted?}

[Guest eureka]

Not at all, Kimmy. If the resources are there to enforce a ban, then it will be effective. It seems that the people who are involved agree.

[kimmy]

Not at all, Kimmy. If the resources are there to enforce a ban, then it will be effective. It seems that the people who are involved agree.

Well now we're making some progress! Indeed, if more resources are put into the enforcement of a ban in Canada, then it will be effective.

(weren't you mocking the notion that stricter policing was the important factor earlier? let's recap...

Of course, the gun lovers claim it was the tighter policing that was responsible.

hmmm.)

But at least now we seem to be on the same page, in that enforcement is the crucial element here. Then again, if more resources were put into enforcing Canada's existing laws regarding ownership and smuggling of handguns, it would have the same impact as this fictitious ban. After all, existing Canadian laws with regard to owning and storing handguns are already so strict as to make the notion of a ban irrelevant.

So, I've got yesterday's Journal on my lap here, with an article with quotes from Tony Cannavino, president of the Canadian Professional Police Association.

Cannavino said he likes the tone of Martin's message, but conceded it will do little to curtail a surge in gun violence, especially since most crimes are committed with stolen or smuggled guns.

Martin is pledging to strengthen border controls to stem the flow of illegal guns into the country, but Cannavino said that will still not make up for the vast cuts under the Liberals' watch in the number of RCMP officers patrolling the borders.

The Liberals also re-announced some initiatives, including plants to put $50 million into community-based programs designed to draw young people away from gang membership. {I suspect this refers to the much-ballyhooed announcement in Toronto a couple of weeks ago. -Kim.}

Martin also said the Liberals would reintroduce a bill to increase maximum jail terms to two years, from one year, for a variety of gun crimes. The Conservatives and police are calling for much tougher maximum penalties to send a message of deterrence.

You and me and the president of the police association all seem to be in agreement that the important aspect here is enforcement.

But of course, the people Martin is hoping to appeal to aren't interested in hearing about more police, or tougher sentences, because the people Martin is hoping to appeal to are people who are convinced that the police and the law are part of the problem; they're more interested in hearing the government taking responsibility for their problems. "Take away the handguns to stop our young men from shooting each other anymore." "Give us money so that our young men stop joining gangs."

-k

[August1991]

A shallow ditch is all that separates Boundary Road, which winds through the fields and farmhouses of this dairy community, from 0 Avenue, a similar rural highway that parallels it just 12 feet away -- in Canada. If not for a small stone marker with "United States" on one side and "Canada" on the other, the border between the two nations here would be impossible to discern.

Some web site

I realize this article is about 3 years old but keep in mind that it refers to US efforts to stop things/people getting into the US from Canada. Imagine the efforts we would have to deploy to stop things going the other way.

[Yaro]

Crime is inexorably related to social condition. When the ROL falls then there is a segment of society which will seek reward by whatever means necessary. In the past this has not been a major problem in Canada because of our relatively high ROL.

Interesting fact, the two economic groups with the highest levels of testosterone are criminals and CEO's.

[Montgomery Burns]

After wasting $2 billion--1000 times more than they estimated ($2 million)--now they want to confiscate handguns. Some Liberal Party guy (I forget who, but it wasn't PMPM) said that citizens owning handguns is not a "Canadian value". Huh? What is a Canadian value?

This is going to backfire bigtime on the Liberals.

CTV is a liberal-left news organization and one could reasonably conclude that they attract more leftists than righties to their website. When I went to vote at their online poll (Will banning handguns make Candians safer), there was 25,600+ votes and 78% said no.

Upon visiting the CBC's website, I saw the reader feedback to the Ban Handguns announcement and there was 30 letters/feedback and only 2 supported it--and one of the pro-banning of handguns letters was the ranting of the typical knee-jerk Anti-Americanism of some Canadians (if the wingnuts don't like it, they can move to the USA if they want to own a handgun).

If the hard left state-run, taxpayer-funded spokespiece for the Liberal Party (the CBC) could only produce 2 pro-banning of handguns letters--out of 30--then you just know that this was a serious mistake on the part of the Liberals.

[Guest eureka]

I was not mocking enforcement, Kimmy. I was pointing to the pitiful responses that will not give credit to the procedures in the bans" will not give credit to political opponents whatever the outcomes.

Enforcement is key but there has to be something to enforce. The proposed ban goes beyond what the existing laws covered; or makes the penalties more meanongful.

Itherwisw, I think we are on the same page.

It is interesting that in the uS, the NRA is challenging in court the successful programmes. It semms that to them, as well as to some here, a few hundred lives saved here and there are not so important as the "Right" to carry weapons that are meant to kill.

[Canuck E Stan]

Enforcement is key but there has to be something to enforce. The proposed ban goes beyond what the existing laws covered; or makes the penalties more meanongful.

75 Additional Enforcement gun officers at our border over 5 years. That works out to Fifteen additional officers a year, to cover 4800 miles of border. Somehow I don't think most people will find that will do much.

[crazymf]

I GOT IT!!!!!

Martin wants to take away all civilian guns so he can give them to the military.

At least they'll have some then. ....in case there's an invasion of mad cows from Alberta ...ok seriously....

[Montgomery Burns]

And we all know how well the handgun ban worked in the UK.....

[Dominik]

The gun ban is just a stupid way to say how the liberals are against guns. The marketed guns arent the problem, its the black marketed guns! So stupid at a futile attempt to ban guns... pitiful.

Oh, and hi all i'm new

[BubberMiley]

They'll never learn that banning things doesn't work; it just creates black markets and organized crime and a worse situation than before they messed with it. That was the case with prohibition, that's the case with marijuana, and that's the case with handguns. More people drank under prohibition, more people smoke weed under its prohibition, and now gun crimes are rising in Canada.

[Dominik]

Thank you, BubberMiley. Almost none whom I know agree with me right now...

[scribblet]

It's almost a done deal - I don't think they've left much to be decriminalised. The only problem is that it's now a crime to be critical of almost any of the old crimes! Now, if only they could decriminalise free speech.

[Montgomery Burns]

The handgun worked wonders in the UK--for the criminals:

A report released this week by the United Nations confirms what law-abiding Americans have known for quite some time. That being that criminals prefer victims who cannot fight back.

Based on a crime survey of the world's top industrialized countries, the U.N. report indicates that a resident of the United Kingdom is nearly 3 times more likely to become a victim of violent assault than is a citizen of the United States. The report reveals that Scotland is the most violent country in the industrialized world with over 2,000 Scots attacked every week, which amounts to about 3 percent of the population on an annual basis. England and Wales are close behind with 2.8 percent of the population falling victim to violent assault. By comparison, Americans are victimized by violent offenders at a rate of 1.2 percent.

These latest crime figures are a snapshot of the upward spiral of violent crime in the United Kingdom. The rate of violent crime in the UK continues to grow despite the passage of successively more restrictive laws governing private firearm ownership. While violent crime in the UK has been ramping up, the rate of similar crimes in the United States has been declining -- thanks in large part to the passage of "concealed carry" laws in over four dozen states.

I have seen similar figures at the UK govt's Home Office website. Also, Chicago and Washington, D.C. banned handguns and both cities saw their crime rate skyrocket.

You'll have to pry it from my cold dead hand, Liberals.

Do you think I am going to go downtown at night in crime-infested Saskatoon without being armed? Do you think I am going to live in this city that has the highest robbery rate (per capita) in Canada, and the US, without protection? There are thugs who hang out in front of the ATMs and there are homeless drug addicts who sleep inside the ATM area of the banks.

It's bad enough that mace is banned. I know many women who are scared to walk downtown (and other areas) at night--and I don't blame them one bit.

[JerrySeinfeld]

The handgun worked wonders in the UK--for the criminals:

A report released this week by the United Nations confirms what law-abiding Americans have known for quite some time. That being that criminals prefer victims who cannot fight back.

Based on a crime survey of the world's top industrialized countries, the U.N. report indicates that a resident of the United Kingdom is nearly 3 times more likely to become a victim of violent assault than is a citizen of the United States. The report reveals that Scotland is the most violent country in the industrialized world with over 2,000 Scots attacked every week, which amounts to about 3 percent of the population on an annual basis. England and Wales are close behind with 2.8 percent of the population falling victim to violent assault. By comparison, Americans are victimized by violent offenders at a rate of 1.2 percent.

These latest crime figures are a snapshot of the upward spiral of violent crime in the United Kingdom. The rate of violent crime in the UK continues to grow despite the passage of successively more restrictive laws governing private firearm ownership. While violent crime in the UK has been ramping up, the rate of similar crimes in the United States has been declining -- thanks in large part to the passage of "concealed carry" laws in over four dozen states.

I have seen similar figures at the UK govt's Home Office website. Also, Chicago and Washington, D.C. banned handguns and both cities saw their crime rate skyrocket.

You'll have to pry it from my cold dead hand, Liberals.

Do you think I am going to go downtown at night in crime-infested Saskatoon without being armed? Do you think I am going to live in this city that has the highest robbery rate (per capita) in Canada, and the US, without protection? There are thugs who hang out in front of the ATMs and there are homeless drug addicts who sleep inside the ATM area of the banks.

It's bad enough that mace is banned. I know many women who are scared to walk downtown (and other areas) at night--and I don't blame them one bit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am a conservative, but I'm not sure what you're gettin at. I admire much of the u.s., but guns are not one of them. I agree the Libs gun registry is a farce, but i don't agree with Canadians becoming armed civians as in the u.s.

[Montgomery Burns]

I live in a crime-infested city with 3 Native Indian gangs roaming the streets and a NDP govt that reneged on its promise to hire 200 more cops for the province (Saskatoon would have got about 45 of those cops).

Don't worry, I'm not a Montananian.

Very rarely am I "packing", but if I need to go to the ATM downtown (I live very close to downtown) or if gangbangers try to break into my place, rape my wife, or steal our cars...

My elderly grandparents live in isolated areas; one pair live on a farm 16 km from a city, and the other pair live in a village (which had to shut down their liquor board store because of it being continously robbed) that is 40 kms from the nearest RCMP station. It makes me feel good knowing they have guns.

The facts are clear (UK, Australia, Chicago, Washington, D.C.) Banning law-abiding citizens from owning handguns results in skyrocketing crime. Criminals are cowards when someone fights back.

Haven't you wondered why the UK and Australia have higher burglary rates , higher car theft rates, and higher rape rates than the USA?

And these numbers are 5 to 7 years old. The UK rates have risen (not sure about Australia), while the US rates have fallen in recent years.

Wouldn't you be leery about burglaring an American's home?

Besides, what did Hitler and the National Socialists do to the German people? They disarmed them. I doubt that would happen here, but the Liberals have been slowly stripping away the rights of Canadians. What if they go even further? The left has a sordid history of totalitarianism and blood-stained hands.

[PocketRocket]

You'll have to pry it from my cold dead hand, Liberals.

Gonna sell tickets??? Lots of people here would pay good money to watch

It's bad enough that mace is banned.  I know many women who are scared to walk downtown (and other areas) at night--and I don't blame them one bit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A young lady of my acquaintance carries one of those miniature cans of spray-paint in her purse.

Her husband had used a small drill-bit to enlarge the spray-hole so the paint would spray farther, in a thicker stream.

She had to use it once.

Not only did it effectively blind the guy for a few minutes (not to mention causing considerable pain), but when police showed up at his door a few hours later, he was still trying to wash the paint out of his hair and eyebrows.

There are alternatives to mace and pepper spray if one is creative.

[Guest eureka]

Is it a pathology with you, MB? Those figures for the UK have been explained to you before. And, the numbers of deaths from handgun use in the US are 30 times those of the UK.

That is what the thread is supposed to be about isn't it: guns.

[newbie]

I live in a crime-infested city with 3 Native Indian gangs roaming the streets...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your choice.

Very rarely am I "packing", but if I need to go to the ATM downtown (I live very close to downtown) or if gangbangers try to break into my place, rape my wife, or steal our cars... 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Again, your choice. If it's so bad, what are you doing about it? Are you running for city council? Have you organized a neighbourhood watch program? Have you taken any steps on your own instead of flapping your gums?

It makes me feel good knowing they have guns.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Better not come in late at night.

Besides, what did Hitler and the National Socialists do to the German people?  They disarmed them. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And what post from Monty would be complete without mentioning Hitler. Well done.