Don Martin: The Trudeau tipping point is within sight

CdnFox · March 1, 2023

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/don-martin-the-trudeau-tipping-point-is-within-sight-1.6292729

CTV news no less. We've seen a number of these 'gentle prod' pieces suggesting trudeau should step down in the last several months. I think the libs and their supporters realize trudeau is past his stale date and that this could really go bad next election with the CPC getting a decent majority. And PP scares them because he knows the game and the system well enough to actually dismantle a fair bit of their advantage while he's in power, and will probably win a second term.

I don't think Trudeau's ego will let him step down. And if he's going to he really has to do it by the end of this year in order to give enough time for a proper leadership convention to be held and for the new leader to have time to prepare for the next election fully. So if they're going to talk him into it, it will need to be soon. I would imagine they'll be ratcheting up the pressure

Michael Hardner · March 1, 2023

PP will make no significant changes, unless you soak in identity politics...

CdnFox · March 1, 2023

That sounds more like someone who's bitter than a rational argument I think he will make some pretty significant changes indeed compared to how things are being run under the liberals

However - i think you may also have misinterpreted my meaning. He will make changes that won't really matter or be seen by you or me per se, but which will eliminate much of the structural advantage the libs have. The liberals have people they've appointed in all kinds of key positions. They have things structured to make it challenging to make the kind of financial changes the CPC would want to. They have media types such as the CBC who support the lib efforts. Senators and judges will need to be appointed. There's all kinds of goings on where the liberals have historically loaded teh dice in their favour and PP is going to know many of them.

Dougie93 · March 1, 2023

14 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

PP will make no significant changes, unless you soak in identity politics...

agreed

he's already started to throw conservatives under the bus, calling them the "far right"

he's adopting Trudeau's mantra before he is even in office

Dougie93 · March 1, 2023

14 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Senators and judges will need to be appointed. There's all kinds of goings on where the liberals have historically loaded teh dice in their favour and PP is going to know many of them.

the Liberals have not only successfully entrenched themselves in every office of government

they have entrenched themselves as the political class itself

you wont even be able to a find a candidate to be a Senator nor a Judge, who isn't actually a Liberal

blackbird · March 1, 2023

Would look forward to a PP government seriously dismantling or changing the CBC structure entirely to make it more politically neutral and clean out the wokeness. Stop giving taxpayer money to media companies and other liberal favourites. The CTV seems to be mirror image of the CBC. Maybe examine why that is.

The Supreme Court needs major changes but I am not sure the government would have much power to do that and make it less liberal and less woke.

Killing the carbon tax and stopping the attack on the energy gas and oil industry would be a very positive step and eliminating the plans for forcing Canadians to buy EVs would be helpful.

Changes to the system to invigorate home building would be a big improvement. Stop the environmental attacks on Canada and ban foreign money coming in to the environmental movement.

Edited March 1, 2023 by blackbird

myata · March 1, 2023

14 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

PP will make no significant changes, unless you soak in identity politics...

And that's just too bad. The other head will have it's way with the archaic and outdated system hopelessly unfit to reflect and accommodate interests of a modern society. The former one would sit out a term or two, perhaps with a few belches. And back to the trough, to the bright eternity and beyond... or to the hard stop. Big trouble or death by extreme boredom, only two possible futures for us.

I honestly don't know in what dumb universe (that was a personal opinion) it could make sense and to who. You let a pig to the bottomless trough, set no limits, no real checks or controls just nothing, no questions answered, eat, sh*t do what you like until you can't anymore, like no room left, physically. Then you roll it away to lie it out and belch and put another one its place. What kind of intelligence it can produce? What problems can it solve (no need to reflect here, just look)? How's that for a democratic system of governance in the 21st century? Truly fascinating and peculiar species!

Edited March 1, 2023 by myata

CdnFox · March 1, 2023

49 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

the Liberals have not only successfully entrenched themselves in every office of government

they have entrenched themselves as the political class itself

you wont even be able to a find a candidate to be a Senator nor a Judge, who isn't actually a Liberal

Sure you will. They're out there and they're chomping at the bit to try to get ahead. Most keep their heads down but don't kid yourself - there's lots and lots of potential to make changes to put right of center people in place in a lot of the structure. Including judges etc.

Dougie93 · March 1, 2023

4 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Sure you will. They're out there and they're chomping at the bit to try to get ahead. Most keep their heads down but don't kid yourself - there's lots and lots of potential to make changes to put right of center people in place in a lot of the structure. Including judges etc.

I have a different view

the political class in Canada is the professional managerial class

they all come from the same place, Canadian academia

so they are the same Woke Green Trans Liberals

they do want to get ahead

and they have rightly sussed out that the way you do that in Canada, is to be a Woke Green Trans Liberal

the Conservatives are ever the losers, nobody who wants to get ahead joins that team

CdnFox · March 1, 2023

31 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Would look forward to a PP government seriously dismantling or changing the CBC structure entirely to make it more politically neutral and clean out the wokeness. Stop giving taxpayer money to media companies and other liberal favourites. The CTV seems to be mirror image of the CBC. Maybe examine why that is.

Well i think he will simply defund the cbc and then it has to survive on it's own (or not.) So it will have to appeal to a target market and win them over to keep it's income the old fashioned way. I don't think that will make them more neutral, but if whatever changes they make don't appeal to enough people they'll die.

And PP is the kind to find ways to funnel money into media companies that are right of center to offset the constant left of center media we've seen in the past. That might be through things like giving exlusive interviews, spending gov't money in advertising, etc etc. Make the right profitable and let the left languish a bit to turn back decades of having it the other way around.

31 minutes ago, blackbird said:

The Supreme Court needs major changes but I am not sure the government would have much power to do that and make it less liberal and less woke.

Oh for sure! The gov't appoints the judges to the supreme court, and most are older by the time they get There. For sure some will retire and when they do PP can appoint people that he knows are more to the right. to counter balance the judges.

It's a bit of a shame - harper put a process in place that was very clever to select judges in a very neutral fashion, eliminating a lot of the political leanings. Over time it would have made for a supreme court that was based strongly on merit and bipartisan acceptance. Trudeau of course dismantled that day one and just appointed judges he likes.

31 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Killing the carbon tax and stopping the attack on the energy gas and oil industry would be a very positive step and eliminating the plans for forcing Canadians to buy EVs would be helpful.

Absolutely. It has to be done right or companies will decide consumers are used to those prices and will just up their prices to pick up the slack, but if you do it right that can be avoided.

31 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Changes to the system to invigorate home building would be a big improvement. Stop the environmental attacks on Canada and ban foreign money coming in to the environmental movement.

All good ideas. Have you considered running for gov't?

myata · March 1, 2023

1 minute ago, Dougie93 said:

the Conservatives are ever the losers,

Also masters of their own fate. The could have chosen to be different. They could have opened new options and opportunities, for the country, the people and themselves... but.. nah. The trough is right here and the turn is assured, sooner or later. Why bother?

Dougie93 · March 1, 2023

2 minutes ago, myata said:

Also masters of their own fate. The could have chosen to be different. They could have opened new options and opportunities, for the country, the people and themselves... but.. nah. The trough is right here and the turn is assured, sooner or later. Why bother?

the Liberals have simply beat the Conservatives too many times

the Liberals have been the Natural Governing Party for decades now

the Conservatives have gone so far to make themselves like the Liberals as a result

it's just natural selection, the Liberals won the evolutionary war, a long time ago

CdnFox · March 1, 2023

4 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

I have a different view

You are entitled to be wrong in this country

4 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

the political class in Canada is the professional managerial class

they all come from the same place, Canadian academia

so they are the same Woke Green Trans Liberals

ahhh yes, the "yes minister" view on the civil service.

There's some truth to it but there is a LOT of truth that there are those within the system who have strong right views but have learned to keep their mouths shut. It's just a matter of juggling things to put them where they need to be.

4 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

they do want to get ahead

and they have rightly sussed out that the way you do that in Canada, is to be a Woke Green Trans Liberal

the Conservatives are ever the losers, nobody who wants to get ahead joins that team

Well aren't we the whiny biatch this morning

It's just not true of course. The bigger challenge is that historically the conservatives HATE the gamesmanship we see with the libs, the dirty sneaky underhanded bullshit they pull to get themselves ahead. So - we get into power and we try to clean that up. We get part way there and the libs get back in and play dirty again which gives them the advantage.

What we unfortunately need to do is play those games ourselves. Stop trying ot be bipartisan appointing judges - appoint the ones we like. Stop being fair to all media and funding the cbc to speak against the conservatives - fire the cbc and support pro right newspapers. The sun, the national post etc. And any others who want to get the message. Shuffle people around so that the hard liberals are moved out of positions of power and are nerfed and right leaning people are placed and entreched where they can have influence.

It's aboslutely shitty it's come to that, because what conservatives want is a clean gov't. But - if we don't then you get what's happening with trudeau, where he can get away with murder and the system supports him. If we're going to have to live with that i'd rather it was on our side not just theirs.

TreeBeard · March 1, 2023

I’ve lost track of how many elections Trudeau has won and how many leaders the Cons have gone through…

Dougie93 · March 1, 2023

13 minutes ago, myata said:

Also masters of their own fate.

they're not really

just look at what happened to the Conservatives in the UK

that was once an actually right wing party which made the Canadian Tories look like a bunch of Commies

but now the Tories in the UK have become the Woke Green Trans Party

4,000 Britons arrested in a single year, for posting "wrong think" on the internet

under the rule of the Tories

in Russia during the same year, only 400 people were arrested by the Kremlin for what they posted online

CdnFox · March 1, 2023

8 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

the Liberals have simply beat the Conservatives too many times

the Liberals have been the Natural Governing Party for decades now

the Conservatives have gone so far to make themselves like the Liberals as a result

it's just natural selection, the Liberals won the evolutionary war, a long time ago

Bullshit. At this ooint in time the CPC has been in power since its creation more often than the libs. The conservatives have won just as many elections. And lets face it - they're probably going to win the next one again.

And it is beyond silly to suggest the CPC are the same party as the libs. If you really believe that, you are too uneducated to vote

Michael Hardner · March 1, 2023

You can't just change the CBC, you would have to change the culture to achieve what you are looking for.

It will be illuminating to some when their hero gets elected, to see how much things have really changed.

CdnFox · March 1, 2023

4 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

I’ve lost track of how many elections Trudeau has won and how many leaders the Cons have gone through…

He's won 3. Seriously you couldn't keep track of three? That was literrally too high a number for you to track?

And the conservatives have 'gone through' 2 leaders since harper retired and are on their third. Again - two seems to be the max you can count to, when we get to three you lose it

Meanwhile after martin, who lost after 2 years, the liberals went through three leaders before they won again as well. But you probably couldn't remember that - it WAS 3 after all

I'm sure the libearls appreciate you trying to discourage conservatives but sorry - we can see the writnig on the wall and polievre will be very bad news for the liberals.

CdnFox · March 1, 2023

2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

You can't just change the CBC, you would have to change the culture to achieve what you are looking for.

Sure you can. "We're not giving you any more money". I absolutely guarantee you things will change with the cbc at that point.

The 'culture' is not self supporting. It's a leech, it needs the blood of others to survive. So cut that off and the 'culture' withers and dies. You think lefties are going to spend their own cash to keep it going?

2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

It will be illuminating to some when their hero gets elected, to see how much things have really changed.

It will be illuminating to see what excuses you come up with when that happens, and what mental gymnastics you do to try to pretend nothing changed. Say hi to justin for us.

Dougie93 · March 1, 2023

7 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

You are entitled to be wrong in this country

ahhh yes, the "yes minister" view on the civil service.

There's some truth to it but there is a LOT of truth that there are those within the system who have strong right views but have learned to keep their mouths shut. It's just a matter of juggling things to put them where they need to be.

Well aren't we the whiny biatch this morning

It's just not true of course. The bigger challenge is that historically the conservatives HATE the gamesmanship we see with the libs, the dirty sneaky underhanded bullshit they pull to get themselves ahead. So - we get into power and we try to clean that up. We get part way there and the libs get back in and play dirty again which gives them the advantage.

What we unfortunately need to do is play those games ourselves. Stop trying ot be bipartisan appointing judges - appoint the ones we like. Stop being fair to all media and funding the cbc to speak against the conservatives - fire the cbc and support pro right newspapers. The sun, the national post etc. And any others who want to get the message. Shuffle people around so that the hard liberals are moved out of positions of power and are nerfed and right leaning people are placed and entreched where they can have influence.

It's aboslutely shitty it's come to that, because what conservatives want is a clean gov't. But - if we don't then you get what's happening with trudeau, where he can get away with murder and the system supports him. If we're going to have to live with that i'd rather it was on our side not just theirs.

I don't understand why you feel the need to call me names just because we have differing views

it's not whining, because I am not a Conservative

if I am going to wallow about something, it will the state of the Republican party, because only America matters

you have to save America first, only then could Canada be saved

that being said, I am not stopping you from executing some sort of counterrevolution, be my guest

but I would actually prefer the Liberals to stay in power

as they are harming themselves most of all, destroying their own brand

so even in the context of your counterrevolution, that is optimal for now

Dougie93 · March 1, 2023

8 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

you are too uneducated to vote

I don't bother to vote anymore

the crisis is at the civilizational level, across the entire Western world

it won't be solved by voting for this party or that party, this is an epoch we are passing through

Dougie93 · March 1, 2023

8 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

You can't just change the CBC, you would have to change the culture to achieve what you are looking for.

exactly

Michael Hardner · March 1, 2023

5 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

1. I absolutely guarantee you things will change with the cbc at that point.

2. The 'culture' is not self supporting. It's a leech, it needs the blood of others to survive. So cut that off and the 'culture' withers and dies. You think lefties are going to spend their own cash to keep it going?
3. It will be illuminating to see what excuses you come up with when that happens, and what mental gymnastics you do to try to pretend nothing changed. Say hi to justin for us.

1. How would you think the culture would change ?
2. You need to divest yourself of your deep personal feelings if you want to be better at analysis IMO
3. Exactly... look at you seething at me as though I love Justin, only because I cautioned little old you about your fever dream. My question is whether you will lose interest in politics if Peter P. falls short of your (high) expectations ?

Dougie93 · March 1, 2023

13 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Bullshit.

well if you're going to be a dick about things

I can vote for the Liberals just to spite you

as I say, I want the Liberals to be in office as the roof starts to cave in

the Conservatives are fools to want to be in power now, they will just be left holding the Liberal's bag

Michael Hardner · March 1, 2023

For the people here who react to Trudeau's face like Pavlog's dog reacted to a bell:

What do you have against Freeland ?

(Assuming of course that you are against an Alberta-born Farmer's Daughter who excelled academically and became an acclaimed analyst of foreign policy)

Just a question...