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A Study of the CURRENT State of Liberal and Conservative Ideologies


Nationalist

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4 minutes ago, Contrarian said:

No, I am saying that in some countries they would have called you a traitor. You, as a Canadian that lies about having served, questioned my Canadian citizenship based on my origins, dismissing the legal process and other many things that you have no idea about. 

This is when you lost an opportunity to conversate which could have led to more ideas but with a liar that makes up a story that he served his country and overheard NATO conversations while working as IT in some cafe or whatever stuff you made up, is a NO NO.

And I never said for you to stop writing, write, but in a democracy, uneducated one, you are allowed to disagree with someone until you want to.

You can parrot all you want, I'll be there for you to answer. 

Here is a Nationalist participating:

Uneducated low-life propagandist, that pretends to be a diplomat, you served this country? I will be here for you every time. Every day. 

THIS IS WHAT CANADA IS ABOUT. To disagree with you, do what you want, but expect ridicule when you talk about peace and serving your country. 

Screenshot2023-02-237_44_37AM.thumb.png.6a8ee9a688f13e043fca785379337ced.png

Hilarious. 

You simply cannot stop warping reality, can you. OK then...

Show me where I ever claimed to have been a diplomat. You can't because I never said that. I said, I served as the IT administrator at a Canadian embassy. I think I also said I ran the embassy pub on Friday evenings. You don't believe me and frankly...I don't particularly care whether you do or not. Moving on...

You continuously toss about the term "radical" to describe anyone who seeks the truth of matters. Yet you will not address any of my questions I've asked about what is "radical". Again...because you can't without exposing your own "radical" ideas.

We have a saying here that I would introduce you to.

'Put up, or shut up.'

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40 minutes ago, Contrarian said:

Ok, I will talk like an establishment folk for once that pretends to care about what you wrote.

Are you ready? I searched this up in 2-3 minutes. I told you, I am talented, is one of my curses too:

  • I will play the role of a liberal that debates with you with OFFICIAL channels: 

*** Remember, I don't necessarily agree with everything below, but will show you how a liberal should debate with a conservative. You are not a conservative, are you?! Let's pretend you are. 
*** Most is copy and paste as you say. 

Official sources:

Sources - Internet (Google, Bing, and the ones below OFFICIAL INSTITUTIONS)

Gender identity is a complex issue that is recognized and supported by medical and scientific experts. It is not a matter of opinion or personal belief. The American Psychological Association, for example, states that "gender identity refers to an individual’s sense of themselves as male, female, a blend of both, or neither." The World Health Organization also recognizes gender identity as a social and cultural concept that can differ from biological sex.
Border protection is an important issue, but it should be addressed in a way that is consistent with international laws and humanitarian values. The United Nations Refugee Agency, for example, emphasizes the need for countries to uphold the principle of non-refoulement, which prohibits the return of refugees or asylum-seekers to a country where they may face persecution or danger.
Climate change is a well-established scientific fact, supported by a vast body of evidence from numerous independent sources. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, a global body of scientific experts, has warned that "warming of the climate system is unequivocal" and that human activities, such as burning fossil fuels, are the primary cause of this warming.
Nuclear war is a catastrophic and highly dangerous scenario that should be avoided at all costs. The North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) is a military alliance that seeks to promote peace and security in the Euro-Atlantic area. Its activities are guided by the principles of collective defense, crisis management, and cooperative security.

  • Any role I can play with you and push you into a corner. Come to reason. 
  • Now I need to work, Soros is not paying my bills, contrary to the conspiracies. 

Gender Identity: Gender dysphoria is a term that describes a sense of unease that a person may have because of a mismatch between their biological sex and their gender identity. This sense of unease or dissatisfaction may be so intense it can lead to depression and anxiety and have a harmful impact on daily life. And what is dysphoria?

a state of unease or generalized dissatisfaction with life.
"adolescents with depression, dysphoria, mania, and anxiety disorders"
 
Thus, this is a psychological issue that some people have with the sex they have been born with. This is not a "concept" per se, its a phychological problem that needs to be addressed, rather than encouraged.
 
Border Protection: The number of persons who may be admitted to the United States as refugees each year is established by the President in consultation with Congress. For fiscal year (FY) 2023, the ceiling remains set at 125,000.
 
Climate Change: The question is not, 'is the climate changing?'. Its, 'How do we BEST address this without shitting all over the middle and lower classes of people...who happen to make up the vast majority of the population?' This, BTW, includes you and me.
 
Nuclear War: Is indeed something we need to avoid at ALL COSTS! Thus, it stands to reason that flirting with nuclear war, over a sliver of land, in a newly and abruptly formed country, which has been denied entry to NATO...is fcking dumb.!
Edited by Nationalist
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CONCLUSION:

There are "new" faces to current Liberalism and Conservatism. On the left, we have the advent of the new base. The "Progs"...the "Woke"...the "Libbies". On the right we also have the advent of the new base. The "Nationalists"...the "MAGA" crowd...the "Trumpsters". I believe the new right is a consequence of the new left.

It is resolved here in this exploratory thread, that these new Liberals are generally responsible for the low level of discourse, as they tend to start most name-calling and bickering.

It is resolved that these new Liberals have extremely selective ideas of things like "inclusion" and "equality". So much so that, knowing their plans are neither of the above, they invented a new social quality to push..."equity".

It is resolved that these new Liberals have become war hawks. Somehow...they've morphed and now call for more and bigger wars.

Thus it is my conclusion that these new Liberals are dangerous. Both to society as a whole...and to themselves. I conclude that these wayward souls are actually tortured by the very presence of Donald Trump. They simply cannot let it go. Its some sort of mass psychosis.

I feel sorry for these new Liberals. They are in for a number of rude awakenings. And they are literally drowning in a sea of pure hatred. A force that can lend power to those who cozy up to it...but can never be sustainable and will end in disaster.

The response is the new Conservatism. Common sense personified.

My Nation First!

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1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

There are "new" faces to current Liberalism and Conservatism. On the left, we have the advent of the new base. The "Progs"...the "Woke"...the "Libbies". On the right we also have the advent of the new base. The "Nationalists"...the "MAGA" crowd...the "Trumpsters". I believe the new right is a consequence of the new left.

Interestingly enough there is historic precedence for that. The nazi party largely arose as a response to the communist party of germany's aggressive and often violent pushing of their agenda for example. The 'Red Wedding" incident (not game of thrones - this happened in a place called Wedding which was called red wedding because of the communist control of the area)  really pushed people into letting the nazis take power specifically to address communist aggressive tactics.

Often times in history the 'left' gets hostile and agressive, and the 'right' becomes radicalized in response.  It CAN go the other way as well but generally doesn't. The reason for that is that when people overthrow a tyrant that controls their lives the last thing they want to replace it with is a totalitarian regime that also wants to control their lives.

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1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

Interestingly enough there is historic precedence for that. The nazi party largely arose as a response to the communist party of germany's aggressive and often violent pushing of their agenda for example. The 'Red Wedding" incident (not game of thrones - this happened in a place called Wedding which was called red wedding because of the communist control of the area)  really pushed people into letting the nazis take power specifically to address communist aggressive tactics.

Often times in history the 'left' gets hostile and agressive, and the 'right' becomes radicalized in response.  It CAN go the other way as well but generally doesn't. The reason for that is that when people overthrow a tyrant that controls their lives the last thing they want to replace it with is a totalitarian regime that also wants to control their lives.

Agreed. This has to be executed thoughtfuly.

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On 2/13/2023 at 1:04 PM, bcsapper said:

Pretty pointless if you're going to start by using the phrase "climate religious".  You paint yourself as a wingnut right off the bat, and ensure that the thread is going to devolve into name calling pretty quickly.

Why does "climate religious" trigger you so much? It's just a phrase based on science and fact.

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On 2/13/2023 at 1:06 PM, Michael Hardner said:

Exactly.  Why would somebody join a discussion that declares itself anti-science from the outset.  You can actually be a climate skeptic and NOT use the term "climate religious" but that's for people who see politics as a rational and progressive discussion of issues.

Why are you so triggered by the scientific phrase "climate religious."

The phrase is factually correct. The Climate Change nuts base their wrong opinion totally on FAITH and zero on actually fact and science.

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12 minutes ago, reason10 said:

Why does "climate religious" trigger you so much? It's just a phrase based on science and fact.

No point in going over this again.  Read the thread.

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On 2/13/2023 at 11:31 AM, Nationalist said:

I want to gain a better understanding of why current Liberals think the way they do, and in all fairness, should include an examination of why current Conservatives think the way they (we) do.

I've spent countless hours arguing things with Liberals and still don't "get" them...and I was a Liberal at one time. The issues that drove me from the Liberal doctrine still exist and seem to have become amplified. Globalism...an insistence that minority rights supersede majority rights...a willingness to follow paths that are hurtful to the general public.

Now admittedly...Conservatism has flown a little further right of late as well. Is this a response to the changes of common Liberalism? Or has Liberalism become more...imposing...because Conservatism altered course. Is wanting leadership that works primarily for the nation's people, as opposed to "the greater good" as described for instance by the climate religious and globalists, an abhorrent idea?

How do we separate logic and common sense, from feelings of fairness and sympathy? Should they be separated?

 

On ur marks...get set...go...

Mainstream conservatism (the philosophy of most of America) has hardly flown further to the right. Mainstream conservatism IS the logical melding of logic/common sense with fairness/sympathy.

The far right has more in common with WokeLeft wing nonsense. They both rely on identity politics, rather than truth, logic and reason.

Mainstream conservatism has always been about free market capitalism, liberty, the rule of CONSTITUTIONAL law, and equal rights and opportunities for all. That part hasn't changed since the William F. Buckley, Ronald Reagan, Rush LImbaugh days.

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I think it's worth separating "Conservative" and "Trumpie".  A lot of people who previously identified as "Conservative" could never get behind Donald Trump and his brand of politics, and these folk have very different attitudes from the ones that did.  

In some ways that is very true. (The Never Trumper movement began at FoxNews.) THE DONALD for most of his life was a Democrat. He contributed to Democrat political campaigns, (mostly just to buy them off so they'll leave him alone.) A lot of mainstream conservatives didn't trust Trump to not swerve to the extreme left, once elected. Two years into his administration (with plummeting gasoline prices, the record BEST economy of all time, peace in the Middle East) most conservatives have come around. They still are put off by Trump's language and his Limbaugh-like swagger. But most of us recognize that he was a better president than ANY Democrat in history. 

I'll ignore your personal insults and limit my remarks to the subject of the thread.

 

 

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On 2/13/2023 at 3:59 PM, Nationalist said:

OK...I'm not sure what to call the climate movement though. And I didn't start off by calling people names in my first post...which is a habit I also hope to explore here but...moving on for now.

What shall we call them then? Climate...concerned people? what would make you not react negatively?

I prefer the scientific approach. The climate changes. It has changed on the Earth long before Homo Sape appeared. There is no disputing that fact. And regardless of ANY human activity, this planet could easily sink into another Ice Age and wipe out a good chunk of the human and animal population.

Edited by reason10
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On 2/13/2023 at 9:07 PM, Nationalist said:

That really bothers you eh? Climate religious. Climate activists. People scared we're dooming ourselves by using fossil fuels. Climate panicked. 

I don't know...you pick a term that doesn't upset you. In the meantime...

Perhaps we should discuss how all this war of ideologies...and of words...got started?

During the Bush years, the railing against Bush became deafening. The rhetoric was unbelievably mean...for the time. But the condemnation was pretty much coming from all sides.

Then Obama. As I've said before, I was proud of Americans for electing a mulatto man. And I found his wife elegant. But there was a lot of opposition to Obama. The Birther thing was quite over the top. But then Obama began his infamous apology tour...not so good. Left mountains of hardware behind bugging out of Iraq...not so good. Gave Iran bales of cash...not so good. Red line...not so good. And ended by destroying Lybia and getting involved in Sierra. Neither good.

Trump...if I recall...revived the Birther thing at one point...not so good.

Then...finally Trump became POTUS. I was shocked. Hell I think even Trump was shocked. The blow-back was and remains IMO...insane.

I think the public got more and more angry...until they finally popped. Half went for Trump...half hated the very air he breathed...and now we have Brandon.

But in there somewhere...battle lines were drawn. Was it Trump?

What prompted this nastiness?

I think Rush Limbaugh said it best. As far back as the early 90s, most of America would laugh its ass off at some nutball liberal ideas. He became a multi millionaire and the most popular radio talk show host in history by laughing at the dumbass stuff liberals do. And he noticed that the laughing is dying down and the liberals are getting even bolder.

Liberals have always been whacked out. I'm pretty sure that in 1990, you weren't hearing about how American fossil fuel use (since NO liberal has mentioned China) is going to cause the climate of an entire planet to change. We would have been on the floor laughing our asses off.

:Liberals today are getting more and more whacked out.

If anything, mainstream conservatism may be embracing more libertarian concepts: more market freedom; take a closer look at victimless crimes; less use of our military overseas, etc. On that last point, Trump was a textbook libertarian. Mainstream conservatives views on abortion certainly have become more moderate.

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You can call them whatever you want.  What you shouldn't do is pretend you want to have a rational, non-partisan discussion about ideologies.

Is it even possible to have an HONEST discussion about ideologies without being partisan? That's like asking if it's possible to live when a heart stops. And I don't see a problem with bringing in ideology and personal political views. Nobody is here at this forum for any other reason than to discuss partisan politics.

 

If you start with a conspiracy minded position that is driven by right wing denial of the science on the subject, you don't instill any confidence that any other subject broached will be treated any differently.

The science says that the climate of the earth can change. It has changed in the past. But it is a nutball left wing fairy tale that human activity in the United States alone (since none of the climate nuts mention  China) can change the climate of a planet that is mostly WATER. No real scientist is vomiting that nonsense. But there are plenty of left wing foundations PAYING pseudo hacks to say otherwise.

 

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On 2/23/2023 at 4:08 AM, Nationalist said:

Remove the "filters" and what you get is an ability to determine the truth of matters.

Who are the filterers?

Depending on who you talk to it's just 1 guy to maybe hundreds of people. Personally I think there'd have to be at least several hundred if not thousands involved with the filtering process. Probably millions when you factor in the global scale at which human race is being controlled, indoctrinated and having its brains washed.

Maybe you know.

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22 hours ago, bcsapper said:

No point in going over this again.  Read the thread.

No wait. I'd like an explanation too. I said earlier that if the name offends you, we could call it something else. You never did explain why the term "climate religious" bothers you.

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22 hours ago, reason10 said:

I prefer the scientific approach. The climate changes. It has changed on the Earth long before Homo Sape appeared. There is no disputing that fact. And regardless of ANY human activity, this planet could easily sink into another Ice Age and wipe out a good chunk of the human and animal population.

The climate is subject to a multitude of influences. One is the natural greenhouse effect. Is our use of carbon increasing that? Probably. Is the answer to forsake fossil fuels before a replacement is available? No. That's panic and never produces good results. 

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1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

No wait. I'd like an explanation too. I said earlier that if the name offends you, we could call it something else. You never did explain why the term "climate religious" bothers you.

It doesn't.  If such nonsense bothered me I wouldn't come on here.

On 2/13/2023 at 11:04 AM, bcsapper said:

Pretty pointless if you're going to start by using the phrase "climate religious".  You paint yourself as a wingnut right off the bat, and ensure that the thread is going to devolve into name calling pretty quickly.

Edited by bcsapper
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21 hours ago, eyeball said:

Who are the filterers?

Depending on who you talk to it's just 1 guy to maybe hundreds of people. Personally I think there'd have to be at least several hundred if not thousands involved with the filtering process. Probably millions when you factor in the global scale at which human race is being controlled, indoctrinated and having its brains washed.

Maybe you know.

Who tells the media what to print? Who tells the major social boards what is acceptable and what needs banning? Who fills the media with lies?

Liberals love to say, 'there is no evidence of...'fill in the blank.

Yet they spent millions  on impeachment with no evidence. In fact, they broke the law in order to spy on American citizens.

So who tells the public what they can believe and what they can say? Who has the tools necessary to accomplish such a grand undertaking?

Certainly not one person. Who's pulling Biden's strings? 

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2 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

But it does bother you. You own words display that. So again...what would you call it?

Climate change denial. 

But you can see why I wasn't interested in the thread, right?

Edited by bcsapper
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12 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

So who tells the public what they can believe and what they can say? Who has the tools necessary to accomplish such a grand undertaking?

So you don't know either but just say it anyway.

Who told you to believe this?  

Edited by eyeball
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