Trudeau hires some lefty loon to combat "Islamophobia" (whatever that means)

[WestCanMan]

9 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

3. I do not.  The principle you and others are employing is to tie ancient historical events to present day adherents of the Islamic religion.  It's pointless and unhelpful.

Ancient?

Was islamic state's genocide that long ago? 

Is it ancient history when the Iranian gov't was whipping women and sending them to prison for decades just for taking off their hijabs, or does that still happen today? 

Was it really that long ago that the taliban were shooting at girls for going to school? And they're pretty popular in Afghanistan, don't ya know?

Pakistan has committed two religious genocides, each killing millions of people, since WWII.

 

You'll tell any manner of blatant lie to defend your ridiculous narratives. This reminds me of when you were seeing the swastikas and confederate flags that the CBC told you to see. Pathetic. 

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

The principle you and others are employing is to tie ancient historical events to present day adherents of the Islamic religion.  It's pointless and unhelpful.

Why are you an apologist for Islam?   Could it be because you are secretly a Muslim or could it be because you are an apologist for the liberal ideology of accepting all religions as equal?

"TheReligionofPeace.com (TROP) is a pluralistic, non-partisan site concerned with Islam's political and religious teachings according to its own texts. The purpose is to counter whitewashing and explain the threat that Islam truly poses to human dignity and freedom, as well as the violence and dysfunction that ensues as a direct consequence of this religion's supremacist ideology."

About TheReligionofPeace.com Site

 

 

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

1. Ancient?

2. Is it ancient history when the Iranian gov't was ..

3. You'll tell any manner of blatant lie to defend your ridiculous narratives.  

1. Ok... so it was 1200 years ago, wrong era:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tours

2.  No, but that's not what we were discussing.  We were discussing the use of ancient events as evidence of current relevance.  

3. You're SO emotional when you debate with me, what's up with that ?  Isn't that the "facts don't care about your feelings" thing ?   

[Michael Hardner]

18 minutes ago, blackbird said:

1. Why are you an apologist for Islam?   Could it be because you are secretly a Muslim or could it be because you are an apologist for the liberal ideology of accepting all religions as equal?

1. OMG... you can't argue facts so you baptize me a Muslim now.... come on guys, at least TRY.

The issue I have is people bringing up the Battle of Tours or some garbage as an explanation as to why we should allow Mosque Shootings to happen in Canada with no public response.

I haven't opined on Islam on this thread except to deflate hysterical arguments by the Muslim haters and the people who love Christian Nationalist Massacres.

Try harder, you're supposed to be a Christian...

[West]

31 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Why are you an apologist for Islam?   Could it be because you are secretly a Muslim or could it be because you are an apologist for the liberal ideology of accepting all religions as equal?

"TheReligionofPeace.com (TROP) is a pluralistic, non-partisan site concerned with Islam's political and religious teachings according to its own texts. The purpose is to counter whitewashing and explain the threat that Islam truly poses to human dignity and freedom, as well as the violence and dysfunction that ensues as a direct consequence of this religion's supremacist ideology."

About TheReligionofPeace.com Site

 

 

Yeah hes a Muslim alright ?

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Why are you an apologist for Islam?   Could it be because you are secretly a Muslim or could it be because you are an apologist for the liberal ideology of accepting all religions as equal?

"TheReligionofPeace.com (TROP) is a pluralistic, non-partisan site concerned with Islam's political and religious teachings according to its own texts. The purpose is to counter whitewashing and explain the threat that Islam truly poses to human dignity and freedom, as well as the violence and dysfunction that ensues as a direct consequence of this religion's supremacist ideology."

About TheReligionofPeace.com Site

 

 

 

1 minute ago, West said:

Yeah hes a Muslim alright ?

You guys make his argument for him.

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

You want to blame people for things that happened in Medieval times and exonerate Christian nationalists from killing worshippers it seems to me.

Isalmic jihadists are not just committing acts of terrorism in medieval times.  You know quite well it is happening today and is very common in the world.  You claim that Christian nationalist terrorist attacks are on par with Jihadists attacks is called false equivalency.  There is no comparison.  Any kind of terrorism is unacceptable of course.   But you have a defect in your thinking that there is some kind of terrorist equivalency between Islam and Christianity in the world.  

2023.02.05 (Nigeria)
Herdsmen yell praises to Allah as they massacre five Christian potato famers in two villages.2023.02.05 (Philippines)
Local Islamists attack a security patrol, killing one member.2023.02.04 (Mozambique)
A Doctors without Borders aid worker with five children is murdered by Islamic extremists.2023.02.01 (Burkina Faso)
Eighteen religious pilgrims are slaughtered by Jihadists.2023.02.01 (Niger)
Jihadists storm a refugee camp and massacre nine innocents.2023.01.30 (Pakistan)
A Fedayeen suicide bomber goes off at a rival mosque, killing over one-hundred worshippers.

 The problem is the holy book of Islam, the Quran, teaches terrorism.

"The Quran contains at least 109 verses that speak of war with nonbelievers, usually on the basis of their status as non-Muslims. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter."

The Quran's Verses of Violence (thereligionofpeace.com)

A right wing nationalist in Sweden publicly burned the Quran and this caused riots in various countries in the middle east.  Do you think this shows extremism and a jihadist attitude is common throughout these countries?  How many of them have capital punishment for blasphemy?

Turkey won't support Sweden joining NATO because of the burning of the Quran in Sweden by that well-known right wing nationalist.  Sweden believes in freedom of expression.  Turkey obviously does not.

OK, I take it you're not a Muslim.  What is your belief about it then?

Edited February 9, 2023 by blackbird

[WestCanMan]

58 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

3. You're SO emotional when you debate with me, what's up with that ?  Isn't that the "facts don't care about your feelings" thing ?   

It's gonna be a while before I forget about the lies told about the Freedom Convoy.

[Michael Hardner]

6 minutes ago, blackbird said:

1.  You claim that Christian nationalist terrorist attacks are on par with Jihadists attacks is called false equivalency.   

2. The problem is holy book of Islam, the Quran, teaches terrorism.

1.  I did no such thing.  I point out the ridiculousness of your Islamophobic statements, and instead of you recognizing how awful it sounds when it's about YOUR people you think I'm condemning my own background.
2. We have explained this to the Muslim haters repeatedly: holy books have awful passages - so how can you blame one book for inciting violence and not another ?

You treat others with a different rule than your own religion.  

[blackbird]

2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

You treat others with a different rule than your own religion. 

I think I have explained this numerous times.  There is no equivalency between the Bible and the Quran but you continue to claim there is.  The Bible does not teach jihadism or terrorism.  The Quran does.   That means it is fair to be opposed to Islam.  I don't understand how you think.  

[blackbird]

5 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I point out the ridiculousness of your Islamophobic statements,

What Islamophobic statements?

[Michael Hardner]

4 minutes ago, blackbird said:

1. The Bible does not teach jihadism or terrorism. 
 

1. You're splitting hairs.  The Bible calls for death for relatively minor sings.

What do you have to say about that ?  How is that not culpable ?

[Michael Hardner]

3 minutes ago, blackbird said:

What Islamophobic statements?

Implying the Koran causes Muslims to be inhuman, as opposed to adherents of your holy book.

[blackbird]

22 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. You're splitting hairs.  The Bible calls for death for relatively minor sings.

I have already explained that.  The Old Testament laws and instructions given to Israel were only directed to Israel at that time history, several thousand years ago and do not apply to the church age, which began 2,000 years ago.  There is no command for the death penalty in the church age for minor things.    Nobody in the church believes those Old Testament commands given to Israel apply to the church today, with the exception of the ten commandments which are restated in other ways in the New Testament.  "thou shalt not kill" or steal, etc.

Edited February 9, 2023 by blackbird

[blackbird]

8 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Implying the Koran causes Muslims to be inhuman, as opposed to adherents of your holy book.

You obviously have not received any basic understanding about the Bible.   Do you seriously believe the Quran does not teach jihadism or terrorism?  Why don't you read about it at the religion of peace website?   Why do some Islamic countries have the death penalty for blasphemy?

[blackbird]

14 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Implying the Koran causes Muslims to be inhuman, as opposed to adherents of your holy book.

"The Quran contains at least 109 verses that speak of war with nonbelievers, usually on the basis of their status as non-Muslims. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter."

The Quran's Verses of Violence (thereligionofpeace.com)

"The Bible also expresses a strong condemnation for the shedding of innocent blood. Over and over, the Scriptures condemn those who use violence against the helpless and inoffensive (Deuteronomy 27:25; Proverbs 6:16–18). Those who use common terrorist tactics such as attacking non-combatants and trying to inspire terror are also rebuked (Jeremiah 7:6; 19:4; 22:3, 17). Even on a small scale, using ambush tactics in order to kill those one hates is treated as murder (Deuteronomy 19:11).

This theme is continued in the New Testament, where Christians are explicitly told not to use bloodshed in an attempt to defend Christ (Matthew 26:52). Attempts to violently overthrow or influence the government are also off-limits (Romans 13:1). Rather, Christians are to overcome evil through good (Romans 12:21).

All in all, terrorism is simply incompatible with a biblical worldview. Opposition to terrorism is expressed both in the Old and New Testaments. The principles apply both to nations and to individual people. The Bible does not explicitly address the 21st-century concept of terrorism, but it clearly condemns everything about it."

What does the Bible say about terrorism? | GotQuestions.org

[Michael Hardner]

8 minutes ago, blackbird said:

1. The Old Testament laws and instructions given to Israel were only directed to Israel at that time history, several thousand years ago and do not apply to the church age, which began 2,000 years ago. 

2. There is no command for the death penalty in the church age for minor things.    Nobody in the church believes those Old Testament commands given to Israel apply to the church today.

1. So you have the right to strike out parts of your holy book and others do not ?  If I ask a Muslim and he says that they ignore the violent exhortations of the Koran you would say it doesn't matter ?  You aren't affected by bad verses but he is ?

2. We have had people cite Leviticus on this very website as evidence that homosexuality is wrong if not deserving of the death penalty.  You're in a bit of a bind if you think the Old Testament doesn't apply because that's where all the oppressive laws against LGBTQ are established.

5 minutes ago, blackbird said:

3. You obviously have not received any basic understanding about the Bible.   

4. Do you seriously believe the Quran does not teach jihadism or terrorism?  Why don't you read about it at the religion of peace website?   

5. Why do some Islamic countries have the death penalty for blasphemy?

3. I don't think that you understand Christianity.  At all.

4. I don't need a Muslim hate website, I follow the Gospel. 

5. You are really looking for reasons to judge Muslims.  Lots of poor and ignorant cultures have these attributes, including Christian ones.  You want to attribute the cause to their religious books instead of other factors.  This is why I think you're likely Islamophobic.  You exhibit vain pride over your religion.

[Michael Hardner]

Anyway, I am breaking my own rule on engaging with trolls here.

My point: bad texts can be ignored by reasonable people.  They do not cause people to "turn evil".  Islam and Christianity are both religions that decline in the presence of western values, and the first step on that path is more liberal values.  You can see it in the US and everywhere.

On the other hand, those who want to feel they are superior will find a way to rationalize anything.  I have the gift of having been devoutly religious and agnostic both, so I don't judge.  Live your life and worship who you want, I say, but don't expect me to believe and don't expect me to support hate either.

Peace.

[blackbird]

2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. So you have the right to strike out parts of your holy book and others do not ?

No I didn't say that.   Proper understanding mean one understands certain books in the Old Testament are primarily history of that period thousands of years ago.  You don't pull some command that was only directed to those people in history and say it applies today.  That is just plain dumb.

 

[blackbird]

2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

They do not cause people to "turn evil".  Islam and Christianity are both religions that decline in the presence of western values, and the first step on that path is more liberal values.  You can see it in the US and everywhere.

Apparently there are millions of Islamists in the world who would disagree with your understanding.  They still believe in extremism, jihadism, and terrorism.  Western values are built on Judeo-Christianity down through the ages and to where we are today.   Liberal values are anti-Bible, anti-Christian and geared toward progressivism which is opposed to the family and traditional values.   You believe Islam is on the same moral plain as Christianity, which is a huge problem because it is completely false.

[blackbird]

7 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

don't expect me to support hate either.

Nobody is saying you should support hate.  I don't either.  But your idea of hate is anyone who opposes Islam is hateful.  That is seriously warped thinking

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. OMG... you can't argue facts so you baptize me a Muslim now.... come on guys, at least TRY.

The issues with islam have been stated here pretty clearly and accurately, without any counter-points from you. 

You cherry pick weird debate points, like something about the Battle of Tours, and leave the significant ones alone, like the ones about how muslim countries love genocides, misogyny, and cultural genocide.

Quote

The issue I have is people bringing up the Battle of Tours or some garbage as an explanation as to why we should allow Mosque Shootings to happen in Canada with no public response.

See? There ya go, throwing down the most ridiculous straw man argument ever made, then you wonder why people get mad about your posts.

This islamophobia crap isn't about whether or not we should be angry when terrorist attacks happen, it's about whether we can even tell the truth without fear of gov't reprisals.

The leftist gov'ts in NA are very serious about their reprisals, and clamping down on free speech is one of their hot-button issues right now.

Quote

I haven't opined on Islam on this thread except to deflate hysterical [lie about] arguments by the Muslim haters and the people who love Christian Nationalist Massacres.

I honestly haven't even seen the posts that you're talking about, but I know without looking that no one here said that they love terrorist attacks by either side.

Quote

Try harder, you're supposed to be a Christian...

How about if you try harder to stick to the truth? 

[Michael Hardner]

6 minutes ago, blackbird said:

1.  Proper understanding mean one understands certain books in the Old Testament are primarily history of that period thousands of years ago.   

 

3 minutes ago, blackbird said:

2. Apparently there are millions of Islamists in the world who would disagree with your understanding.   

 

1 minute ago, blackbird said:

3.  But your idea of hate is anyone who opposes Islam is hateful.  That is seriously warped thinking

1. "Proper" .... riiiight.... Remind me to consult on you on proper interpretation of the Bible and Koran.  And I take it there's a proper way to extract the sins outlined in the OLD testament because some of them are proper, right ?
2. You have just completed a circular explanation:

Why are there violent Muslims ?  "Why they are affected by their holy books"
But other religions have bad passages in their holy books "Yes, but their adherents aren't violent"

3. I don't agree.  It's your insistence that you are morally superior because of your selective "proper" interpretation of your Holy Book that I think is hateful.  You are simply better than them, in your view.  It's not only wrong, it's unChristian.

Ok now I'm done I hope....

[West]

30 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Anyway, I am breaking my own rule on engaging with trolls here.

My point: bad texts can be ignored by reasonable people.  They do not cause people to "turn evil".  Islam and Christianity are both religions that decline in the presence of western values, and the first step on that path is more liberal values.  You can see it in the US and everywhere.

On the other hand, those who want to feel they are superior will find a way to rationalize anything.  I have the gift of having been devoutly religious and agnostic both, so I don't judge.  Live your life and worship who you want, I say, but don't expect me to believe and don't expect me to support hate either.

Peace.

Lol... Christian values are western values bud. 

Now lefties are trying to erode that by allowing pedos to change with little girls at the swimming pool but aside from the perverted nonsense in recent years Christianity has built the greatest civilization we've ever seen

Edited February 9, 2023 by West

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Remind me to consult on you on proper interpretation of the Bible and Koran. 

If you did a little research and reading on the Bible and Christian beliefs you would find there is nothing to support your claim that it is a violent religion.  The Bible is not one book by one author.  It is made up of sixty six books written by about forty different authors.  Parts of it are history of Israel in the Old Testament. The Quran was written by one man, Mohammed, between 610 and 631 A.D.  It is based on the claim that an angel gave him the revelation and he wrote it down to create the Quran.  The Bible on the other hand was written over a period of about 1,500 years by 66 different authors.  Just the character of the Bible proves it came from God.  If you don't believe that you are open to any Satanic lies the Devil puts in your path.

You are being disingenuous or dishonest in interpreting the Bible the way you want to make it look bad.  Nobody who knows anything about the Bible would agree with you.  But you made it clear you are not prepared to read anything or listen to any explanation of the Bible.  So we wasting our time with you.  The only reason to reply to you is to hopefully not let you deceive others.  You don't have to listen to me, but if you won't listen or read what Bible experts and theologians say, you prove you are not being honest.

 

Edited February 9, 2023 by blackbird