Tyre Nichols would be alive to day if he hadn't resisted arrest

[Moonbox]

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

Yes. Do you want to compare African Americans to those in South Africa?

If you want to, go ahead, but the point was that circumstances/history, rather than vague and general definitions of ethnicity/culture play a bigger part in outcomes. 

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

That's the general liberal excuse. But it fails to explain why violence and crime were so low among African Americans in the 1950s and early 1960s.

Probably because they were still getting lynched into the 50's, and because up until the late 60's they had so few rights or protections. 

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

It also fails to explain why the great majority of Black kids grew up in two-parent families up until the early 1960s, when American society brought in numerous civil rights laws, and why only a small percentage of them now do so. These are things which grew much worse after civil rights (and the welfare state) expanded.

Yes, and that may be one, among many causes.  From 1980 onwards, the rate of black male incarceration did something like quintupled, despite steadily falling crime rates.  At the same time, marriage rates have declined across all cultures, and single-parent families have grown across the board (without a corresponding spike in incarceration), so there's obviously more to this.  

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

Well, to begin with, that rarely happens. There are millions and millions of interactions between police and citizens every year and the vast majority are peaceful. But there are over 900k police in the US and for the most part they're not very well trained (nor are they in Canada). There is also a kind of mentality trained into them which says they have to 'take charge' and that means allowing no questioning of their 'authority' without a direct response. I've seen people yelling at and arguing with police in the UK who are then allowed to go on their way when they'd certainly have been grabbed and handcuffed in the US (or Canada). 

and somehow the British model works.  The poor training and culture of North American police, I think, needs rethinking.  

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

I would also suggest the whole narrative around BLM and policing and 'defunding' police, along with moves to make bail automatic and free and to largely ignore street crime and refuse to prosecute people guilty of minor assaults, thefts, vandalism, public drug use, etc. combined with a zealous oversight of everything police do have combined to make policing an extremely unattractive profession for most people with alternatives.

Yet, again, the British and other countries seem to make do.  As for automatic bail, that's a whole other can of worms that probably needs a discussion of its own.  In some jurisdictions in the US, poor people unable to afford bail can end up being held for months or even years before their trial, effectively derailing/ruining their lives even when they later end up innocent.  Unless they can get a quick court date, it's not okay to hold them this long. 

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

This is why violent crime has risen so fast, particularly in Black communities.

It hasn't risen though.  Violent crime has been on steady decline for decades. 

[CrakHoBarbie]

39 minutes ago, reason10 said:

 

And again, Chauvin did NOT pin that animal to the ground. 

So I'm guessing your health care plan doesn't include eye care? Or are you just completely blind? No matter.... Justice was done and that piece of shit cop is now locked up where he belongs. 

[reason10]

3 minutes ago, CrakHoBarbie said:

So I'm guessing your health care plan doesn't include eye care? Or are you just completely blind? No matter.... Justice was done and that piece of shit cop is now locked up where he belongs. 

Justice was not done. A LYNCHING occurred. Chauvin committed no crime. He just took out the trash.

[CrakHoBarbie]

Just now, reason10 said:

Chauvin committed no crime. He just took out the trash.

Really? Where'd y'all go?

[reason10]

20 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

If you want to, go ahead, but the point was that circumstances/history, rather than vague and general definitions of ethnicity/culture play a bigger part in outcomes. 

Probably because they were still getting lynched into the 50's, and because up until the late 60's they had so few rights or protections. 

Yes, and that may be one, among many causes.  From 1980 onwards, the rate of black male incarceration did something like quintupled, despite steadily falling crime rates.  At the same time, marriage rates have declined across all cultures, and single-parent families have grown across the board (without a corresponding spike in incarceration), so there's obviously more to this.  

and somehow the British model works.  The poor training and culture of North American police, I think, needs rethinking.  

Yet, again, the British and other countries seem to make do.  As for automatic bail, that's a whole other can of worms that probably needs a discussion of its own.  In some jurisdictions in the US, poor people unable to afford bail can end up being held for months or even years before their trial, effectively derailing/ruining their lives even when they later end up innocent.  Unless they can get a quick court date, it's not okay to hold them this long. 

It hasn't risen though.  Violent crime has been on steady decline for decades. 

Actually, violent crime has GREATLY INCREASED during and because of the Unelected Joe regime. You have blue cities doing away with bail, cutting police budgets, and wondering why their streets are less safe.

https://nypost.com/2021/07/02/biden-polls-horribly-on-his-handling-of-rising-crime/

https://www.gop.gov/bidens-crime-crisis/

https://www.breitbart.com/crime/2022/04/11/poll-only-39-percent-approve-of-joe-bidens-handling-of-crime-surge/

[reason10]

2 minutes ago, CrakHoBarbie said:

Really? Where'd y'all go?

There was no murder. Just a dishonest DA and an intimidated jury.

[Rebound]

2 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Yes. Do you want to compare African Americans to those in South Africa?

No, it's a cultural thing.

That's the general liberal excuse. But it fails to explain why violence and crime were so low among African Americans in the 1950s and early 1960s. It also fails to explain why the great majority of Black kids grew up in two-parent families up until the early 1960s, when American society brought in numerous civil rights laws, and why only a small percentage of them now do so. These are things which grew much worse after civil rights (and the welfare state) expanded.

Well, to begin with, that rarely happens. There are millions and millions of interactions between police and citizens every year and the vast majority are peaceful. But there are over 900k police in the US and for the most part they're not very well trained (nor are they in Canada). There is also a kind of mentality trained into them which says they have to 'take charge' and that means allowing no questioning of their 'authority' without a direct response. I've seen people yelling at and arguing with police in the UK who are then allowed to go on their way when they'd certainly have been grabbed and handcuffed in the US (or Canada). 

I would also suggest the whole narrative around BLM and policing and 'defunding' police, along with moves to make bail automatic and free and to largely ignore street crime and refuse to prosecute people guilty of minor assaults, thefts, vandalism, public drug use, etc. combined with a zealous oversight of everything police do have combined to make policing an extremely unattractive profession for most people with alternatives.

Pretty much every large city police force in America is short staffed, along with most of the smaller ones. They can't hire people fast enough and the ones already there are leaving in droves. Even those who stay are not doing pro-active policing, ignoring things they see on the street because they don't want to risk becoming the target of official ire if there's a struggle. Nor do they really want to stop some suspicious guy in a high crime area and be immediately surrounded by a cursing, hostile crowd. This is why violent crime has risen so fast, particularly in Black communities.

A lot of cities are offering entry level salaries of $80k and relatively quick increases to well over $100k and still can't get qualified applicants.

Perhaps not but there are tons of videos on youtube with police acting very calm and polite and respectful and still getting shot. Often by Black people. 

Black people have been brutalized with police and unjustly convicted of crimes throughout our nation’s history.  These problems didn’t begin in 1970.

[CrakHoBarbie]

45 minutes ago, reason10 said:

There was no murder. Just a dishonest DA and an intimidated jury.

Again, if you're having trouble with your vision, ask one of the nurses for help.

[Aristides]

1 hour ago, reason10 said:

 

Probably because (a) Floyd was demanding to be let out, and (b) if Chauvin had left him in there in his drugged state, that animal likely would have severely injured himself thrashing around and the police department would be liable.

And again, Chauvin did NOT pin that animal to the ground. Other officers had him down and were trying to restrain him. Chauvin was merely assisting.

The courts were wrong. Chauvin committed no crime. He may have used poor judgment, but the ONLY criminal there was the animal Floyd.

So why didn't a jury find him not guilty?

[I am Groot]

1 hour ago, Moonbox said:

If you want to, go ahead, but the point was that circumstances/history, rather than vague and general definitions of ethnicity/culture play a bigger part in outcomes. 

I don't accept that history is responsible given things have gotten worse (in terms of crime and family breakdown) as civil rights have improved.

1 hour ago, Moonbox said:

Probably because they were still getting lynched into the 50's, and because up until the late 60's they had so few rights or protections

Are you saying that lynching kept the murder rate down? Because I don't think that's really it...

1 hour ago, Moonbox said:

Yes, and that may be one, among many causes.  From 1980 onwards, the rate of black male incarceration did something like quintupled, despite steadily falling crime rates.  At the same time, marriage rates have declined across all cultures, and single-parent families have grown across the board (without a corresponding spike in incarceration), so there's obviously more to this.  

It's not that simple. The crime rate, esp certain crimes skyrocketed into the 1980s and into the 1980s, in some cases peaking in the mid 1990s. But it's still far, far above what it was in 1960. In some cases by an order of magnitude. Rape, for example, went from 9.6 per 100k to 44 last year. The murder rate is the same now as it was ten years ago, but the Black share of that has risen to 60%.

And there's a difference between 'single parent' families where the father still helps out and those where he doesn't.

The way so many young black men come to associate status with never giving an inch, with physical toughness and not accepting any disrespect, however slight, certainly plays a part.

1 hour ago, Moonbox said:

and somehow the British model works.

Well... sort of. Certainly there's less police violence against civilians. But I wouldn't be so quick to congratulate a country on its policing when it has a 7% crime solution rate.

1 hour ago, Moonbox said:

  The poor training and culture of North American police, I think, needs rethinking.  

Agreed.

1 hour ago, Moonbox said:

 As for automatic bail, that's a whole other can of worms that probably needs a discussion of its own.  In some jurisdictions in the US, poor people unable to afford bail can end up being held for months or even years before their trial

Yes. The time between charge and trial or other settlement is atrocious in this country, too, even for minor crimes. The legal system is horribly bureaucratic and time consuming. Who would imagine a system run by lawyers who bill by the hour would be so time-consuming and inefficient?

 

Edited February 2, 2023 by I am Groot

[CrakHoBarbie]

52 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

I don't accept that history is responsible given things have gotten worse (in terms of crime and family breakdown) as civil rights have improved.

 

 

The evidence points more towards economic issues. Before civil rights took off, a family could get by (well) with just one person working. When that ended, shit started going downhill 

[Moonbox]

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

I don't accept that history is responsible given things have gotten worse (in terms of crime and family breakdown) as civil rights have improved.

Crime rates have been going down since the 1990's.  Family breakdown is a universal trend.  

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

Are you saying that lynching kept the murder rate down? Because I don't think that's really it...

I'm saying when you keep all the poor people and ethnic minorities out of your neighborhood, you can live in your bubble and not really have to worry about what's happening outside of it.  It's very easy to maintain order with a boot on the head of your minorities.  

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

It's not that simple. The crime rate, esp certain crimes skyrocketed into the 1980s and into the 1980s, in some cases peaking in the mid 1990s. But it's still far, far above what it was in 1960. In some cases by an order of magnitude. Rape, for example, went from 9.6 per 100k to 44 last year. The murder rate is the same now as it was ten years ago, but the Black share of that has risen to 60%.

and they're mostly murdering each other, in hopeless, ghetto neighborhoods. 

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

The way so many young black men come to associate status with never giving an inch, with physical toughness and not accepting any disrespect, however slight, certainly plays a part.

I'm not sure you have a great perspective on the culture of young black men.  

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

Well... sort of. Certainly there's less police violence against civilians. But I wouldn't be so quick to congratulate a country on its policing when it has a 7% crime solution rate.

There's less violent crime altogether - something like 1/3 of Canada's and 1/20th of the USA's.  

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

Agreed.

Yes. The time between charge and trial or other settlement is atrocious in this country, too, even for minor crimes. The legal system is horribly bureaucratic and time consuming. Who would imagine a system run by lawyers who bill by the hour would be so time-consuming and inefficient?

but these are the scales of justice.  It's not okay to hold people without trial.  That's not okay anywhere in the world.  Until that gets fixed, automatic bail for non-dangerous offenses is better than locking people up without even proving establishing their guilt.    

[reason10]

17 hours ago, Aristides said:

So why didn't a jury find him not guilty?

Several reasons:

1. The RIOTING mob outside had the jury intimidated.

2. The NEGLIGENT, INCOMPETENT judge didn't have the brains to order a change of venue, so the defendant could get a fair trial from a jury who was NOT scared shitless by animals outside doing this:

[reason10]

17 hours ago, CrakHoBarbie said:

Again, if you're having trouble with your vision, ask one of the nurses for help.

The jury had no vision problems with THIS shit taking place right outside the window.

[CrakHoBarbie]

1 hour ago, reason10 said:

The jury had no vision problems with THIS shit taking place right outside the window.

Those who are intellectually challenged and MAGA cultists can ignore the mountain of evidence that put  Chauvin away. Those who aren't, can't. Back when you were a young man people didn't get so upset when a minority was killed, huh..... 

[reason10]

1 hour ago, CrakHoBarbie said:

Those who are intellectually challenged and MAGA cultists can ignore the mountain of evidence that put  Chauvin away. Those who aren't, can't. Back when you were a young man people didn't get so upset when a minority was killed, huh..... 

Make America Great Again has nothing to do with this discussion. That's kind of a TROLL remark (seeing as the retards here rise and fall on that magic word.)

There was ZERO evidence that Chauvin committed second degree murder. To bring you up to speed, Second Degree is killing with intent. There is ZERO evidence that Chauvin, (who was using a DEPARTMENTALLY APPROVED MANEUVER) had the intent of ending that animal's life.

If anything, he might have been guilty of INVOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER. Involuntary means lack of intent, but enough negligence to be referred to as manslaughter.

And AGAIN, (for the left wing RETARD RACISTS at this forum) had Chauvin been black and Floyd been white, Chauvin would not have served a single day in lockup, and this

would not have happened.

As far as the Nichols killing goes, the ONLY parallel is the fact that the person killed was resisting arrest and could easily have survived had he merely stopped resisting.

 

[CrakHoBarbie]

40 minutes ago, reason10 said:

 

There was ZERO evidence that Chauvin committed second degree murder. 

 

 

He knelt on a man's neck for ten minutes... Even after George stopped moving, Chauvin still did not remove his knee. Justice was done, you're profoundly stupid and that's what it is, all wrapped up in a big red MAGA bow, halfwit.

[reason10]

1 hour ago, CrakHoBarbie said:

He knelt on a man's neck for ten minutes... Even after George stopped moving, Chauvin still did not remove his knee. Justice was done, you're profoundly stupid and that's what it is, all wrapped up in a big red MAGA bow, halfwit.

He misused the procedure. Others in other occupations misused their procedures and killed THOUSANDS, (such as former American presidents who paid for the Wuhan Lab that killed MILLIONS) and were never charged.

I never said what Chauvin did was justice. It was an accidental death. It was not murder.

And had that animal he killed been WHITE, you never would be discussing this anyway.

[CrakHoBarbie]

27 minutes ago, reason10 said:

He misused the procedure. 

And a man died because of his callous disregard for human life. If you didn't have such low regard for black folks, you might understand. ... But, your a halfwit.

[reason10]

18 hours ago, CrakHoBarbie said:

And a man died because of his callous disregard for human life. If you didn't have such low regard for black folks, you might understand. ... But, your a halfwit.

You're a racist TROLL.

Fck off.

[CrakHoBarbie]

Just now, reason10 said:

You're a racist TROLL.

Fck off.

I think you need your meds adjusted..... Again .....you f__king halfwit.

[Nationalist]

What a saddly typical thread.

This Tyre fellow had apparently tried to run from the cops when they signaled him to pull over. The original charge was reckless driving. Once pulled over, Tyre ran away...twice if I'm not mistaken. Bad idea.

By the time they caught him, these cops probably were rather distressed. 

Question: would these cops have beaten Tyre, had he just pulled over and stopped and cooperated?

Edited February 10, 2023 by Nationalist

[CrakHoBarbie]

2 hours ago, Nationalist said:

What a saddly typical thread.

This Tyre fellow had apparently tried to run from the cops when they signaled him to pull over. The original charge was reckless driving. Once pulled over, Tyre ran away...twice if I'm not mistaken. Bad idea.

By the time they caught him, these cops probably were rather distressed. 

Question: would these cops have beaten Tyre, had he just pulled over and stopped and cooperated?

So it's your contention that, because the suspect ran, the officers were justified in beating him to death? That "defense" will not hold up in a court of law. It's my opinion that all of these officers will serve time in prison.

[Nationalist]

13 minutes ago, CrakHoBarbie said:

So it's your contention that, because the suspect ran, the officers were justified in beating him to death? That "defense" will not hold up in a court of law. It's my opinion that all of these officers will serve time in prison.

Are you really that thick?

I didn't say anyone was justified in beating anyone to death. I said, had he not run, he'd likely be alive right now.

[CrakHoBarbie]

23 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Are you really that thick?

I didn't say anyone was justified in beating anyone to death. I said, had he not run, he'd likely be alive right now.

Well, you stated that the suspect made a "bad mistake" by running. And, as most of us have heard, if you run from the cops they are going to beat your ass when they catch you".... Do you agree with that? Do you think it should be lawful for police to beat suspects that run?