Americans (colonists) did NOT start the slave trade.

[reason10]

9 hours ago, I am Groot said:

This whole topic is a sad indictment on the poor education of people in the Western world, especially as regards history. It's also a sorry example of how the progressive narrative in media has turned people's minds to pudding on subjects where only one side of the story is ever told.

Slavery is an institution which was endemic throughout the world going back as far as written languages document. Peoples all over the world took slaves, mostly of the weak or defenseless, the conquered, the unorganized. Africans took other Africans slaves for thousands of years before the coming of Europeans. So did Asians, people on the Indian subcontinent, Polynesians, North and South Americans - again before the coming of Europeans. Nowhere is free from it.

But somehow, poor education and progressive zealotry has convinced a lot of people that slavery is mostly about African slaves being taken to the United States, that it was mostly White people taking slaves of Africans. Well, that's the power of television and culture, I suppose.

The truth is Europe was too poor and disorganized and backward to take slaves from anywhere but Europe for most of its history. In fact, for much of history Europeans were more likely to be grabbed by seafaring slavers and taken to the Barbary Coast for sale in the middle east than they were to take any other peoples slaves. In the darker days of the seventeenth century English fishermen were afraid to put to sea for fear of either being captured by slavers, or of being away when slavers attacked their village. It wasn't until late in the 17th century that Europe saw off the final attempt by Muslim warlords to conquer Europe.

The Trans-Atlantic slave trade lasted about 400 years, which is an eyeblink in the life of the world. The only thing which made it unique was that slaves were transported so far. And, more importantly, it was the first time in history any slave-taking peoples decided it was wrong and - stopped. No one else ever had. Europeans ended slavery for themselves, then forced every other nation to give it up, as well. The Americans, of course, had a bloody war over it. 

The Anglosphere, probably due to Hollywood, seems to be just about the only people on Earth are still banging their heads and wringing their hands about their distant past history. Every other nation honors their ancient ancestors, taking pride in them being powerful and defeating/conquering other nations. The descendents of the Azteks or Incans aren't ashamed of them, nor are the Haida on the west coast who were such big slave takers. The Egyptians are proud of their ancient pharaohs and their conquests. Just as the Italians are proud of ancient Rome and the Chinese are proud of their ancient emperors. 

Why we allow ourselves to feel guilty over harm we never caused and try to make amends to people who never suffered from that harm is beyond me

 

These liberals here are lucky if they can get through a comic book without help. Creating a thread about Americans not being responsible for slavery is like telling a blonde to go into a round room and sit in the corner.

[Nationalist]

5 minutes ago, reason10 said:

These liberals here are lucky if they can get through a comic book without help. Creating a thread about Americans not being responsible for slavery is like telling a blonde to go into a round room and sit in the corner.

OK hang on.

We all know a drug addict knows he/she is an addict. Yet they continue to feed their addiction. They must accept a portion of the blame. 

Certainly not the bulk of the blame...but some portion for sure.

Edited November 24, 2022 by Nationalist

[reason10]

2 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

OK hang on.

We all know a drug addict knows he/she is an addict. Yet they continue to feed their addiction. They must accept a portion of the blame. 

Certainly not the bulk of the blame...but some portion for sure.

Two schools of thought:

1. The addict is responsible because he/she/it initially introduced the substances into his/her/its body.

2. At some point, the booze/drugs are in charge.

I haven't decided if they are mutually exclusive or one leading to the other.

But rehab for addicts certainly means requiring them to take responsibility for their actions.

[Nationalist]

3 minutes ago, reason10 said:

Two schools of thought:

1. The addict is responsible because he/she/it initially introduced the substances into his/her/its body.

2. At some point, the booze/drugs are in charge.

I haven't decided if they are mutually exclusive or one leading to the other.

But rehab for addicts certainly means requiring them to take responsibility for their actions.

Exactly.

So these Libbies who scream "America Racist" are in fact, hypocrites. They want to place all blame on the Euros who came here...already addicted to slavery...yet want to excuse the producers of the drug of slavery.

I suspect this is because to cast blame on the African slavers, would mean becoming colour blind. That ain-a-gonna happen. They suffer from the same addiction the Euros had...

Racism.

[reason10]

8 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Exactly.

So these Libbies who scream "America Racist" are in fact, hypocrites. They want to place all blame on the Euros who came here...already addicted to slavery...yet want to excuse the producers of the drug of slavery.

I suspect this is because to cast blame on the African slavers, would mean becoming colour blind. That ain-a-gonna happen. They suffer from the same addiction the Euros had...

Racism.

The liberals here (besides being some of the dumbest people I've ever encountered in a long time) are indeed the worst kind of RACISTS in the galaxy. They are the legacy of the Democrat authored JIM CROW laws.

[Aristides]

Africans didn’t get to the Americas on their own and they didn’t go willingly.

[Nationalist]

1 minute ago, reason10 said:

The liberals here (besides being some of the dumbest people I've ever encountered in a long time) are indeed the worst kind of RACISTS in the galaxy. They are the legacy of the Democrat authored JIM CROW laws.

Agreed. And to someone thinking rationally...this is obvious. 

[Nationalist]

2 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Africans didn’t get to the Americas on their own and they didn’t go willingly.

And?

[reason10]

10 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Africans didn’t get to the Americas on their own and they didn’t go willingly.

The Jews didn't walk into those gas chambers.

The Chinese slaves didn't volunteer to make your kids $200 Nikes for no pay.

The Asian/Americans didn't volunteer to enter those concentration camps provided by FDR.

So?

[I am Groot]

9 hours ago, robosmith said:

White American abuse of black people really only substantially ended in the 1960s, so American culture continued to cause HARM until very recently.

And to the point that the US government sanctioned such abuse with legal segregation, it is RESPONSIBLE.

What harm? Do please tell me. If we look at the economic and social status of the Black family in 1960 we find that they have been racing upwards towards economic equality with the great majority of Black children born and raised in two-parent families. Ten years later their economic progress had basically halted and the Black family was in tatters. Yet the 1960s were the years of civil rights improvement and expansion, increased welfare spending, an end to segregation, affirmative action programs across America, busing programs to send Black kids to better schools. All of that from the generous and caring hands of the government.

And the result? More impoverishment, more crime, more social breakdown. 

It wasn't slavery or segregation which have kept Black people back but big government taking them into its embrace and taking control of their destiny while telling them nothing was their fault. The American government has instilled in many the view it is up to society, up to the government to improve Black people's lot in life, and led them into the role of dependent children with no responsibility to improve their lives.

Edited November 24, 2022 by I am Groot

[I am Groot]

9 hours ago, robosmith said:

Its existence elsewhere does NOT justify INJUSTICE HERE.

Your statement has nothing to do with mine.

[I am Groot]

9 hours ago, robosmith said:

"The Portuguese" were ONLY HALF of the slave TRADE. It takes (at least) two to trade.

Your statement has nothing to do with mine.

[reason10]

34 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Your statement has nothing to do with mine.

You are arguing with a cretin who is still butt hurt from losing so many arguments to conservatives.

You'd get a more intelligent conversation from a dead dog.

[Aristides]

1 hour ago, reason10 said:

The Jews didn't walk into those gas chambers.

The Chinese slaves didn't volunteer to make your kids $200 Nikes for no pay.

The Asian/Americans didn't volunteer to enter those concentration camps provided by FDR.

So?

Thanks for making my point. 

[Rebound]

3 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Exactly.

So these Libbies who scream "America Racist" are in fact, hypocrites. They want to place all blame on the Euros who came here...already addicted to slavery...yet want to excuse the producers of the drug of slavery.

I suspect this is because to cast blame on the African slavers, would mean becoming colour blind. That ain-a-gonna happen. They suffer from the same addiction the Euros had...

Racism.

The African slavers were only in business because of white Europeans and Americans paying them. But, more importantly, what we’re concerned with is America’s crimes inflicted upon her own people for over three hundred years, and how it continues to impact our society today. 

[I am Groot]

50 minutes ago, Rebound said:

The African slavers were only in business because of white Europeans and Americans paying them.

Like everywhere else on Earth Africans routinely took slaves long, long before the coming of either Arabic or European slavers. And even at the heigh of the Atlantic slave trade the majority of African slaves were in - Africa.

 

[Nationalist]

2 hours ago, Rebound said:

The African slavers were only in business because of white Europeans and Americans paying them. But, more importantly, what we’re concerned with is America’s crimes inflicted upon her own people for over three hundred years, and how it continues to impact our society today. 

OK so tell ya what. You give America a good spanking. Don't be shocked though, when they spank you back. The only real "racism" that I see today is dumb-ass ideas like "equity" and "affirmative action".

Then there's also the "racism" of good intentions. The economic slavery of blacks to welfare. Lyndon Johnson's "Great Society".

Gee...that idea worked wonders...didn't it.

[Aristides]

On 11/24/2022 at 10:18 AM, I am Groot said:

Like everywhere else on Earth Africans routinely took slaves long, long before the coming of either Arabic or European slavers. And even at the heigh of the Atlantic slave trade the majority of African slaves were in - Africa.

 

All true but they weren't the reason for slavery in the Americas, they just enabled it.

[I am Groot]

15 minutes ago, Aristides said:

All true but they weren't the reason for slavery in the Americas, they just enabled it.

Again, there was slavery throughout the Americas before the white men showed up.

The reason Europeans took slaves of Africans, generally, is that they found themselves in control of vast tracts of land in the southern hemisphere without the ability to work the land because of tropical diseases, esp Malaria, they could not survive. That is why Africans were purchased from their black owners and brought to Haiti, the Bahamas, Brazil and the southern US. 

[Aristides]

13 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Again, there was slavery throughout the Americas before the white men showed up.

The reason Europeans took slaves of Africans, generally, is that they found themselves in control of vast tracts of land in the southern hemisphere without the ability to work the land because of tropical diseases, esp Malaria, they could not survive. That is why Africans were purchased from their black owners and brought to Haiti, the Bahamas, Brazil and the southern US. 

Doesn't matter the reason. Slavery is slavery, to say Europeans were not responsible for Africans being enslaved in the Americas because we killed off most of the FN with our diseases is just ridiculous. Europeans never intended to do any of those jobs.

Edited November 25, 2022 by Aristides

[I am Groot]

19 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Doesn't matter the reason. Slavery is slavery, to say Europeans were not responsible for Africans being enslaved in the Americas because we killed off most of the FN with our diseases is just ridiculous. Europeans never intended to do any of those jobs.

I find there's an weird mix of self-loathing and arrogant superiority in the way so many Anglos seem to look at slavery. On the one hand they believe it's worse than original sin and use it, among other faults, to utterly condemn our ancestors as beyond the pale.

No one else does this, though. Nor do those who condemn our ancestors ever show the same outrage, indignation and contempt for other peoples' ancestors for acting just as bad or worse. It's like they subconsciously think our white skin puts us on such a higher plateau, makes us so much better that, unlike the brown-skinned people,  they really ought to have known better.

Edited November 25, 2022 by I am Groot

[eyeball]

24 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

I find there's an weird mix of self-loathing and arrogant superiority in the way so many Anglos seem to look at slavery. On the one hand they believe it's worse than original sin and use it, among other faults, to utterly condemn our ancestors as beyond the pale.

I take the view and I'm rather proud of the fact that we're amongst the first countries to try and address the wrongs our governments and institutions committed in the past.

Quote

No one else does this, though. Nor do those who condemn our ancestors ever show the same outrage, indignation and contempt for other peoples' ancestors for acting just as bad or worse. It's like they subconsciously think our white skin puts us on such a higher plateau, makes us so much better that, unlike the brown-skinned people,  they really ought to have known better.

Exactly, no one else is attempting to do what we're attempting - that's what puts our country on a higher plateau. 

Our institutions and governments knew better than to behave the way they did because they were founded on a 2000 year old awareness that doing unto others as we'd have them treat us was the proper path to be on.  Now that we're back on it perhaps other will follow.

The only people I see maligning us for being here are cranky old pink one's. What's with them anyway?

Edited November 25, 2022 by eyeball

[I am Groot]

21 hours ago, eyeball said:

I take the view and I'm rather proud of the fact that we're amongst the first countries to try and address the wrongs our governments and institutions committed in the past.

Nobody cares outside the influence of the American anglosphere. If you tried to suggest to Italians or Arabs or Frenchmen or the Chinese that they should look back on their history and ancient leaders with contempt because they mistreated people they'd probably laugh in your face.

21 hours ago, eyeball said:

Exactly, no one else is attempting to do what we're attempting - that's what puts our country on a higher plateau. 

I disagree. Progressives do it constantly. Look at how outraged they get at any deviation from respect for the equality of women compared to how they almost entirely exempt the Muslim world from any judgement on its misogyny, or, for that matter, ignore the misogyny of Muslims organizations in Canada.

 

21 hours ago, eyeball said:

Our institutions and governments knew better than to behave the way they did because they were founded on a 2000 year old awareness that doing unto others as we'd have them treat us was the proper path to be on.  Now that we're back on it perhaps other will follow.

Are you saying we should be better people because our religion is better than others?

 

[Aristides]

22 hours ago, I am Groot said:

I find there's an weird mix of self-loathing and arrogant superiority in the way so many Anglos seem to look at slavery. On the one hand they believe it's worse than original sin and use it, among other faults, to utterly condemn our ancestors as beyond the pale.

No one else does this, though. Nor do those who condemn our ancestors ever show the same outrage, indignation and contempt for other peoples' ancestors for acting just as bad or worse. It's like they subconsciously think our white skin puts us on such a higher plateau, makes us so much better that, unlike the brown-skinned people,  they really ought to have known better.

It isn't self loathing, it's just acknowledging our own history. I don't feel personally responsible for it but I don't deny it either.

[I am Groot]

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

It isn't self loathing, it's just acknowledging our own history. I don't feel personally responsible for it but I don't deny it either.

Nobody ever denied it. But now it's like the media, politicians, artists and academics are obsessed with the worst elements of our history and are doing their best to exaggerate it, grind our faces in it and ensure that neither we nor any immigrants arriving have the slightest pride in Canada and its history. This is all imported straight from the US, like an infection, including the cancelling of historical figures and the pulling down of statues.