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Price of diesel goes up to 3.04 cents in NB


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This is one of the big issues with Canada's energy strategy.  

We missed the boat on our own refining capacity 40+ years ago with Trudeau's dirtbag father and the disgraceful NEP etc.  We would certainly be in a better place with more oil domestic oil production and refining today, but we had to build the infrastructure and capacity decades ago, and we didn't.  Trying to fix it now would be throwing good money after bad, so the only thing we really can do (as Army Guy said) is drop some of the gas tax to provide temporary relief.  

Will that happen?  Unlikely IMO. 

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1 hour ago, Moonbox said:

This is one of the big issues with Canada's energy strategy.  

We missed the boat on our own refining capacity 40+ years ago with Trudeau's dirtbag father and the disgraceful NEP etc.  We would certainly be in a better place with more oil domestic oil production and refining today, but we had to build the infrastructure and capacity decades ago, and we didn't.  Trying to fix it now would be throwing good money after bad, so the only thing we really can do (as Army Guy said) is drop some of the gas tax to provide temporary relief.  

Will that happen?  Unlikely IMO. 

Wait a sec….  Alberta has said for decades that it’s provincial jurisdiction.  But you blame the Feds for a lack of refineries?  And all on one guy from 50 years ago?  Unfortunately, being a small market compared to the giant south of us, it hasn’t made sense for companies to build refineries in Canada to supply our small market.  It would have taken massive subsidies, which, while it may have kept prices lower (arguable) for those who purchase it, the responsibility of paying for it shifts to taxpayers. 
 

If you need diesel, why am I easing your burden at the pump by having my taxes subsidize the price?

Its not as simple as most people like to make it out to be. 

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2 hours ago, Moonbox said:

We missed the boat on our own refining capacity 40+ years ago with Trudeau's dirtbag father and the disgraceful NEP etc

Totally ass backwards opinion you got there, so intent on hating a Trudeau you forgot what actually happened. His NEP meant we could sell oil for export for more than we sold it for our own use. PetroCanada meant we could build our own refineries, we had an end to end publicly controlled system where YOU as a taxpayer could vote them out if they ripped you off, not just yell at the clouds.

Pierre Trudeau set that up, but oh no that was too 'communist' for some, and Alberta threw shit fits and tantrums that they should get "world price" for their oil.
Well PetroCanada got all broken up and privatized and Alberta got world price and you have to pay whenever they up it because some shiek got mad or Putin farted or whatever.
Well pray to Jesus and maybe Elon Musk will build a refinery in your province, cuz ya pissed away the opportunity PET handed you.

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2 hours ago, herbie said:

Totally ass backwards opinion you got there, so intent on hating a Trudeau you forgot what actually happened.

Right.  Okay.  I can never keep track of what I am to people on this forum.  One minute I'm a Trudeau flunky and the next I'm a Trudeau hater.  ?

2 hours ago, herbie said:

His NEP meant we could sell oil for export for more than we sold it for our own use. PetroCanada meant we could build our own refineries, we had an end to end publicly controlled system where YOU as a taxpayer could vote them out if they ripped you off, not just yell at the clouds.

The NEP appropriated foreign investments without compensation, thereby scaring off external capital for years.  It also flopped majestically, turning out to be a massive waste of money that provided no benefit to anyone and turned Alberta (and the Prairies to a lesser extent) into even more of a wasteland for the Liberals for the next 40+ years.  

Even Pierre Trudeau fans generally acknowledge the utter failure and foolishness of the NEP.  

 

Edited by Moonbox
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48 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I wonder why nationalizing oil worked out so well in Norway's case?  It's probably not to late to get them to come and manage our resources for us.

I don't know.  It didn't work out here though.  We should at least be pushing these pipelines through now.  It's madness to me that it's so hard to get at least that done.  

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50 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

I don't know.  It didn't work out here though.  We should at least be pushing these pipelines through now.  It's madness to me that it's so hard to get at least that done.  

It would have made more sense then but with all the resistance now I can certainly understand why it's impossible. Anything that moves in the direction of more production certainly runs counter to what I believe needs to be done to address climate change and I'd certainly oppose any increase if the best we could do with it is ship it to China.

I suppose I'd be open to the idea of refining everything here to ensure processing is done to the highest standard possible and if I could be convinced we only sold it to people who align with the standards and linkage we're struggling to develop around human rights and trade.  If it's just to ship it out to the highest bidder and we wash our hands of it we might as well go back to mining and exporting asbestos.

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It didn't work because we compensated for it being set up and then quickly privatized it for a little money right now. Just like Gordon Campbell did flogging of BC rail here.

Instantly got rid of the electrified line, went back to diesel only a couple years before CO2 shit hit the fan. CN instantly forgot everything BC Rail knew e.g. where empty cars were parked, why you can't run longer trains on certain areas.

Oh yes, I'm well aware he didn't sell BC Rail, just leased it for 999 years....

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6 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

Wait a sec….  Alberta has said for decades that it’s provincial jurisdiction.  But you blame the Feds for a lack of refineries?  And all on one guy from 50 years ago?  Unfortunately, being a small market compared to the giant south of us, it hasn’t made sense for companies to build refineries in Canada to supply our small market.  It would have taken massive subsidies, which, while it may have kept prices lower (arguable) for those who purchase it, the responsibility of paying for it shifts to taxpayers. 
 

If you need diesel, why am I easing your burden at the pump by having my taxes subsidize the price?

Its not as simple as most people like to make it out to be. 

Had we done it 20 years ago, those massive subsidies would not be that big would they. we ship cheap bitumen to the US, they refine it and sell it back to us for Tripple the price that's good business practices, is it not.

I can see this is hard for you to work out, everyone wants cheap gas, they think they are better off, more money in the old wallet... but since everything you can touch, smell, taste, or hear comes by a diesel truck, and with high diesel prices the trucking companies are passing that expense on to the manufactures, who are passing on that to you...

If diesel was the one to be subsidized, we would all have more money in our pockets. 

It is really that simple. 

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4 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Right.  Okay.  I can never keep track of what I am to people on this forum.  One minute I'm a Trudeau flunky and the next I'm a Trudeau hater.  ?

 

I'm starting to see your point you made to me a while back, perhaps the middle ground is the hardest to defend. but it does make for interesting debates. Ask him for a hug they like that. 

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Oh FFS I'm not ragging anyone person, I'm pointing out this misconception that PET's action is related to the current problems. He handed us a process and WE rejected it. I voted for Mulroney too, and now we have Free Trade and deregulation and privatizations and we're stuck with that and all it's implications like world prices for oil. There's no going back. FFS look at our telecom infrastructure, we're shelling billions of public dollars out to Bell & Telus to deliver access to small communities so they can make even more money. Not using their own money.... using yours!

And ArmyGuy makes a good point - yeah it would be more cost efficient to send oil south, refine it there and buy it back... just like Vancouver does. Enjoy tham prices - diesel will be $6 a litre in NB & NS then.

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10 minutes ago, herbie said:

And ArmyGuy makes a good point - yeah it would be more cost efficient to send oil south, refine it there and buy it back... just like Vancouver does. Enjoy tham prices - diesel will be $6 a litre in NB & NS then.

Well since NB does not get any bitumen from Alberta, it does not really affect us if you buy a Canadian product for 3 times the price you sold it for, only BC would think that was good business practices, what's gas there again, 2 something...

had they built that pipeline we would have cheaper fuel, NB is not afraid of pipelines, infact we love pipelines, beats the shit out of fracking... instead we buy Saudi oil and process that, Irving controls our fuel prices, and he likes money more than we do i guess. .

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On 11/7/2022 at 11:30 AM, TreeBeard said:

All we need to know is how Trudeau is to blame.  
 

or is he?

 

If it’s Trudeau’s fault, why are oil companies making record profits?

https://www.statista.com/chart/27887/big-oil-sees-profits-increase/

 

This video concerns grocery prices but it's pretty much the same thing with big oil profits.

This thing about record profits is a bit misleading when we have to consider that costs have gone up substantially for everyone. 

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15 hours ago, Army Guy said:

had they built that pipeline

Had they. We're both arguing the same thing, I'm only pointing out if you don't have the refinery you're still hostage. We blew the opportunity for Canadian owned, Canadian controlled solution. Now it's too late for anything, investing the amounts needed for an end of life product.

When I visited my sister in Truro in 2014, she'd converted her furnace from oil to propane, it was cheaper and natural gas was 'coming'. Just a matter of changing nozzles.
Well it's 2022 and natural gas is still 'coming soon'.

Same shit as in BC, my cousing worked at Ballard researching fuel cells. In effing 1982... while the Premier talked Hydrogen Highway... talk talk talk.
Thank God we have people like Musk who might be a jerk but DID instead of 'study' for 50 years.

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