Rebound Posted October 25, 2022 Report Posted October 25, 2022 While Republicans blame Biden for global inflation and global high oil prices, they also blame the deficit… which has fallen a full fifty percent over Trump’s last two budgets. A GOP Congress will further slash taxes on the mega rich, making our deficits grow even higher. Their other plan is to keep the number of IRS agents the same as it was in 1970, when we had 2/3 our current population… because they want to support the tax-cheating mega rich, not salary earners who file straight out of their W-2’s. https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2022/10/21/biden-federal-deficit-republicans/ 2 Quote @reason10: “Hitler had very little to do with the Holocaust.”
Michael Hardner Posted October 25, 2022 Report Posted October 25, 2022 I was about to defend Trump here (I know, I know...) but you say Trump's last "two" budgets ? Really ? Can you maybe cut/paste that from the article ? I need a cite. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Rebound Posted October 25, 2022 Author Report Posted October 25, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: I was about to defend Trump here (I know, I know...) but you say Trump's last "two" budgets ? Really ? Can you maybe cut/paste that from the article ? I need a cite. WWW.TREASURY.GOV https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/national-deficit/ From the Post: ”Office of Management and Budget Director Shalanda Young speaks to reporters at the White House in March. The Biden administration said Friday that the federal budget deficit plunged from $2.8 trillion in 2021 to $1.4 trillion in 2022.” Edited October 25, 2022 by Rebound Quote @reason10: “Hitler had very little to do with the Holocaust.”
Michael Hardner Posted October 25, 2022 Report Posted October 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, Rebound said: WWW.TREASURY.GOV https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/national-deficit/ Ah.... well this seems to blame an administration for the impacts of Covid. You'll find liberals who will "blame" Stephen Harper for 2007-2008. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Rebound Posted October 25, 2022 Author Report Posted October 25, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: Ah.... well this seems to blame an administration for the impacts of Covid. You'll find liberals who will "blame" Stephen Harper for 2007-2008. Well, maybe if the idiot in the White House listened to the medical advisors, we wouldn’t have had one million deaths and Covid shutdowns throughout 2020-2021. But Trump and the GOP-majority Senate chose his budget, and Covid remained strong. As a matter of economic stability, it is very questionable whether cutting government spending even more rapidly than Biden did would be wise. Edited October 25, 2022 by Rebound Quote @reason10: “Hitler had very little to do with the Holocaust.”
robosmith Posted October 25, 2022 Report Posted October 25, 2022 13 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: Ah.... well this seems to blame an administration for the impacts of Covid. You'll find liberals who will "blame" Stephen Harper for 2007-2008. I guess you're not aware of the dozens of things Trump did, which made the pandemic much worse here. Trump's stupidity caused the first 2 SUPER-SPREADER events here, for 2 EXAMPLES: 1. Announced a (not real) travel ban from China which allowed 40,000 people to fly back from China with neither masking, testing, tracking nor quarantine. 2. Announced a travel ban from Europe with NO PLANNING and thousands of people packed the airports in a panic trying to book flights with NO masking, nor tracking and no quarantine when the got here. ^These are just the TIP of the ICEBERG. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted October 25, 2022 Report Posted October 25, 2022 25 minutes ago, Rebound said: Well, maybe if the idiot in the White House listened to the medical advisors, we wouldn’t have had one million deaths and Covid shutdowns throughout 2020-2021. But Trump and the GOP-majority Senate chose his budget, and Covid remained strong. As a matter of economic stability, it is very questionable whether cutting government spending even more rapidly than Biden did would be wise. Side issue. A disaster happened. Blaming Trudeau, Trump et al for resulting deficits is pure politics. Now the deficit BEFORE Covid is another matter. Ask the cult members what happened to the Tea Party ? What's Paul Ryan doing these days ? I asked a cult member on this very board and the response was "Paul Ryan blah blah blah"... so... Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Michael Hardner Posted October 25, 2022 Report Posted October 25, 2022 10 minutes ago, robosmith said: 1. I guess you're not aware of the dozens of things Trump did, which made the pandemic much worse here. 2. Trump's stupidity caused the first 2 SUPER-SPREADER events here, for 2 EXAMPLES: 1. Announced a (not real) travel ban from China which allowed 40,000 people to fly back from China with neither masking, testing, tracking nor quarantine. 2. Announced a travel ban from Europe with NO PLANNING and thousands of people packed the airports in a panic trying to book flights with NO masking, nor tracking and no quarantine when the got here. ^These are just the TIP of the ICEBERG. 1. Of course I am. 2. Sure. If the US had responded as Canada did and experienced 1/2 the death rate (matching Canada's) there would still be a huge deficit. Conservatives in this country point to that one too. Let's be principled. If you want to criticize Trump, I'll bet there are other things he did wrong. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Hodad Posted October 25, 2022 Report Posted October 25, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: Ah.... well this seems to blame an administration for the impacts of Covid. You'll find liberals who will "blame" Stephen Harper for 2007-2008. I think it's fair to blame him for the actions outside of the pandemic though. For example, Trump assumed office amidst a robust and growing economy, but decided to feed his ego and ambition for re-election by stimulating it further through spending and tax cuts. Inflation is one reason not to goose an already healthy economy, but the other is that there is no room left to apply counterpressure to declining fortunes. Ideally economic and monetary policy are tools to smooth out the natural swings of the economy, but if you've got the economic levers at full tilt for no reason then when things go wrong you've got less room to react. ETA: For sake of clarity, he was already choosing to run large deficits for no reason. If he had been fiscally responsible then even the pandemic-fueled deficit would be dramatically smaller. Edited October 25, 2022 by Hodad 1 Quote
Michael Hardner Posted October 25, 2022 Report Posted October 25, 2022 23 minutes ago, Hodad said: 1. For example, Trump assumed office amidst a robust and growing economy, but decided to feed his ego and ambition for re-election by stimulating it further through spending and tax cuts. 2. ETA: For sake of clarity, he was already choosing to run large deficits for no reason. If he had been fiscally responsible then even the pandemic-fueled deficit would be dramatically smaller. 1. Yes. Argus, I and others have been critical of this gross mismanagement. 2. Agreed. 1 Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
robosmith Posted October 25, 2022 Report Posted October 25, 2022 4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: 1. Of course I am. 2. Sure. If the US had responded as Canada did and experienced 1/2 the death rate (matching Canada's) there would still be a huge deficit. Conservatives in this country point to that one too. Let's be principled. If you want to criticize Trump, I'll bet there are other things he did wrong. Of course there are MANY other things he did wrong wrt the pandemic. The list would fill a BOOK. Practically the only thing he did right was green light the vaccines, but he mucked that up too, by politicizing the release, thereby casting doubt on safety and effectiveness which actually REDUCED its effectiveness. Quote
Rebound Posted October 26, 2022 Author Report Posted October 26, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: Ah.... well this seems to blame an administration for the impacts of Covid. You'll find liberals who will "blame" Stephen Harper for 2007-2008. WTF? This is the data from the Treasury. Hard stop. Just the numbers. Why the deficit was so high is because spending increased drastically while revenue decreased drastically. Yes, Covid was a factor but the tax cuts were Trump’s choice. Reagan, Bush and Trump all slashed taxes for the rich and deficits exploded every time. The Leffler curve is obviously not true. Edited October 26, 2022 by Rebound Quote @reason10: “Hitler had very little to do with the Holocaust.”
Michael Hardner Posted October 26, 2022 Report Posted October 26, 2022 10 minutes ago, Rebound said: 1. This is the data from the Treasury. Hard stop. Just the numbers. 2. Why the deficit was so high is because spending increased drastically while revenue decreased drastically. Yes, Covid was a factor but the tax cuts were Trump’s choice. Reagan, Bush and Trump all slashed taxes for the rich and deficits exploded every time. The Leffler curve is obviously not true. 1. I realize that. 2. So compare to pre-Covid numbers then. It's still bad news for Trump. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Rebound Posted October 26, 2022 Author Report Posted October 26, 2022 2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: 1. I realize that. 2. So compare to pre-Covid numbers then. It's still bad news for Trump. Yes. Tax cuts cause deficits. Quote @reason10: “Hitler had very little to do with the Holocaust.”
Michael Hardner Posted October 26, 2022 Report Posted October 26, 2022 7 hours ago, Rebound said: Yes. Tax cuts cause deficits. If they come without program cuts, yes. Of course most people know this, but most people haven't gone bankrupt while owning casinos. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Michael Hardner Posted June 25, 2024 Report Posted June 25, 2024 https://thehill.com/business/4736740-trump-biden-fiscal-policy-deficit/ Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget (CRFB) released this yesterday - Quote Ignoring the pandemic relief measures enacted by both presidents, the proportion of debt addition still holds around 2-to-1, with former President Trump adding $4.8 trillion in non-pandemic-aid fiscal debt and Biden adding $2.2 trillion. Those additions were mostly due to the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA), changes to the Affordable Care Act, and different budgetary acts in 2018 and 2019. The important thing to note is that the Tax Cuts helped superfuel the economy, but only in a way that a credit card helps a shopping addict. There were no program cuts to match the tax cuts. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Nationalist Posted June 25, 2024 Report Posted June 25, 2024 (edited) On 10/25/2022 at 1:01 PM, Rebound said: While Republicans blame Biden for global inflation and global high oil prices, they also blame the deficit… which has fallen a full fifty percent over Trump’s last two budgets. A GOP Congress will further slash taxes on the mega rich, making our deficits grow even higher. Their other plan is to keep the number of IRS agents the same as it was in 1970, when we had 2/3 our current population… because they want to support the tax-cheating mega rich, not salary earners who file straight out of their W-2’s. https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2022/10/21/biden-federal-deficit-republicans/ Hilarious. I remember this smoke and mirrors show. You wanna blame Trump for Rona spending while Brandon was POTUS. Nice try but, it didn't work then and it certainly won't work now. Oh...and the tax cuts worked. If this is your strategy...it'll fail miserably. Edited June 25, 2024 by Nationalist Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
Rebound Posted June 25, 2024 Author Report Posted June 25, 2024 33 minutes ago, Nationalist said: Hilarious. I remember this smoke and mirrors show. You wanna blame Trump for Rona spending while Brandon was POTUS. Nice try but, it didn't work then and it certainly won't work now. Oh...and the tax cuts worked. If this is your strategy...it'll fail miserably. The tax cuts definitely did not make the deficit lower. Quote @reason10: “Hitler had very little to do with the Holocaust.”
Nationalist Posted June 25, 2024 Report Posted June 25, 2024 45 minutes ago, Rebound said: The tax cuts definitely did not make the deficit lower. No but they did help produce a great economy for the people. You do care about the people...don't you? Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
Deluge Posted June 25, 2024 Report Posted June 25, 2024 (edited) On 10/25/2022 at 11:01 AM, Rebound said: While Republicans blame Biden for global inflation and global high oil prices, they also blame the deficit… which has fallen a full fifty percent over Trump’s last two budgets. A GOP Congress will further slash taxes on the mega rich, making our deficits grow even higher. Their other plan is to keep the number of IRS agents the same as it was in 1970, when we had 2/3 our current population… because they want to support the tax-cheating mega rich, not salary earners who file straight out of their W-2’s. https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2022/10/21/biden-federal-deficit-republicans/ All I see is the deficit rising, and it makes sense given the fact that democrats are in power: "Compared to the national deficit of $1.17 trillion for the same period last year (Oct 2022 - May 2023), our national deficit has increased by $37 billion." https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/national-deficit/ Edited June 25, 2024 by Deluge Quote
Michael Hardner Posted June 25, 2024 Report Posted June 25, 2024 56 minutes ago, Rebound said: The tax cuts definitely did not make the deficit lower. The statement was "they worked" though. And if you are asking if "tax and spend" justices up the economy then clearly we know they do, even if it's private money. But deficit orgies are why Trump is NOT conservative and why Paul Ryan left the party and has devoted his influence to removing Trump from politics. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Deluge Posted June 25, 2024 Report Posted June 25, 2024 (edited) 59 minutes ago, Rebound said: The tax cuts definitely did not make the deficit lower. They beat the shit out of tax increases, which is always a good thing. Edited June 25, 2024 by Deluge Quote
User Posted June 25, 2024 Report Posted June 25, 2024 55 minutes ago, Rebound said: The tax cuts definitely did not make the deficit lower. No, it was the spending that didn't make deficits lower. The amount of money the US government collected went up after the tax cuts. Spending went up even more. It is the one thing Republicans and Democrats do together, they both spend, spend, spend. On 10/25/2022 at 12:01 PM, Rebound said: While Republicans blame Biden for global inflation and global high oil prices, they also blame the deficit… which has fallen a full fifty percent over Trump’s last two budgets. And? Deficits were artificially high from Pandemic spending. Why don't you tell us where Deficits are today under Biden after Pandemic spending as compared to before? You will see Biden is spending more. (With the help of both parties... they all love to spend, spend, spend) Quote
Michael Hardner Posted June 25, 2024 Report Posted June 25, 2024 3 minutes ago, Deluge said: They beat the shit out of tax increases, which is always a good thing. Why not make taxes zero then... my point is that conservatives don't "always" support tax cuts. There needs to be some measure of qualification. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Nationalist Posted June 25, 2024 Report Posted June 25, 2024 12 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: Why not make taxes zero then... my point is that conservatives don't "always" support tax cuts. There needs to be some measure of qualification. Thursday evening Brandon meets Trump on the debate stage. After that, Brandon may be put out to farm. None of this will matter. Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
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