Russian Army collapsing - the unsurprising failure of a police-state

[Boges]

1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said:

Because I do.

Yes I am.

Cool Story Bro. 

[Boges]

The more this thread goes on the more it's obvious that Conservatives are reflexively supporting Putin because. . . I guess they just love Fascism. 

They prefer brutal fascists to elected Liberal leaders of their own Western Nations. 

[Nationalist]

51 minutes ago, Boges said:

Again Putin Appeasing at its finest. 

Will you fear thermonuclear war if Putin decides Finland and Sweden joining NATO is a grave threat to the homeland and starts annexing their territory? 

You still haven't described a strategic benefit for Putin using Nukes, especially so close to the Russian border.

I will always fear thermonuclear war. Only an idiot would not.

[Boges]

Just now, Nationalist said:

I will always fear thermonuclear war. Only an idiot would not.

Now who's the coward. 

You don't grasp the concept of MAD. Putin would also be committing his people to certain death.

All for a NATO reject? 

This is the guy you want to cede Eastern Europe to? But you don't support him? Laughable.  

[Nationalist]

55 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

So you know better than the MSM and everyone else about Russia and Ukraine because of gossip you hear from in-laws who don’t live in either country?

 

Gotcha. 

I think you're off the rails here Beave. Where have I said I have family in either Ukraine or Russia?

BTW...most of what the MSM tell us...is half-truths and out right lies.

[Nationalist]

6 minutes ago, Boges said:

Now who's the coward. 

You don't grasp the concept of MAD. Putin would also be committing his people to certain death.

All for a NATO reject? 

This is the guy you want to cede Eastern Europe to? But you don't support him? Laughable.  

OK...has Putin threatened to attack...unprovoked...any NATO nation?

And if you do not fear a nuclear war...please see a therapist.

[DogOnPorch]

12 minutes ago, Boges said:

Cool Story Bro. 

 

You can pretend that I do not if you'd like.

Edited October 13, 2022 by DogOnPorch

[Nationalist]

11 minutes ago, Boges said:

The more this thread goes on the more it's obvious that Conservatives are reflexively supporting Putin because. . . I guess they just love Fascism. 

They prefer brutal fascists to elected Liberal leaders of their own Western Nations. 

This is abject horseshit.

Most "conservatives" actually want to throw in with Zelinsky to keep them armed just enough to make a bloody cash cow out of them.

[Boges]

1 minute ago, Nationalist said:

OK...has Putin threatened to attack...unprovoked...any NATO nation?

Has any NATO nation pledged troops? They are supplying military aid. This is not without precedent. 

It's in NATO's interest for Ukraine to not be subjugated by Russia. 

[DogOnPorch]

Threads from 1984...if you haven't seen it...give it a go.

 

[BeaverFever]

21 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

I think you're off the rails here Beave. Where have I said I have family in either Ukraine or Russia?

BTW...most of what the MSM tell us...is half-truths and out right lies.

Nowhere, which is exactly why nobody cares what your family tells you. You’re the one who said you get the “truth” from your family. Clearly they’re no smarter than you are.   
 

So I’ll ask you again how do you know the MSM is reporting lies and where do you get the “truth” on Ukraine and Russia from?

[Nationalist]

58 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Nowhere, which is exactly why nobody cares what your family tells you. You’re the one who said you get the “truth” from your family. Clearly they’re no smarter than you are.   
 

So I’ll ask you again how do you know the MSM is reporting lies and where do you get the “truth” on Ukraine and Russia from?

So Beave...I do tend to believe Svetlana more than I do Donna LeMon. I also have watched internet news from CZ and Slovakia with my wife. They have an interesting take on what's going on right now. Of course...Donna or even Hannity...will never report on these things. They...chafe...against the warped reality being played out for...planks. Useful twits who cheer on daily death tolls because..."PUTIN BAD!". Which he might very well be. I mean...he DID invade Ukraine. So ya...there's that. Past that...Europe is filled with news WE DON'T GET. Hell the internet is filled with it. And when everything I hear from you and little brigade of vampires, and read/watch independent news, I have to admit that the independent news makes much more sense. I mean common now...Russia sabotaged its own pipeline? That's just friggin' asinine.

Try starting with Redacted online. Youtube still carries it.

[Nationalist]

1 hour ago, Boges said:

Has any NATO nation pledged troops? They are supplying military aid. This is not without precedent. 

It's in NATO's interest for Ukraine to not be subjugated by Russia. 

Indeed it is in NATO's interest. But is it in OUR interest?

Remember "He's Got 'em!"?

[Moonbox]

21 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Indeed it is in NATO's interest. But is it in OUR interest?

Yes.  That's why we're doing it.  ?

Sadimir is a delusional villain and it's very much in our interest to see him toppled, or at the very least cucked.  So far #2 has already happened.  We'll have to wait and see if he survives this self-inflicted disaster.  

Edited October 13, 2022 by Moonbox

[BeaverFever]

25 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

So Beave...I do tend to believe Svetlana more than I do Donna LeMon. I also have watched internet news from CZ and Slovakia with my wife. They have an interesting take on what's going on right now. Of course...Donna or even Hannity...will never report on these things. They...chafe...against the warped reality being played out for...planks. Useful twits who cheer on daily death tolls because..."PUTIN BAD!". Which he might very well be. I mean...he DID invade Ukraine. So ya...there's that. Past that...Europe is filled with news WE DON'T GET. Hell the internet is filled with it. And when everything I hear from you and little brigade of vampires, and read/watch independent news, I have to admit that the independent news makes much more sense. I mean common now...Russia sabotaged its own pipeline? That's just friggin' asinine.

Try starting with Redacted online. Youtube still carries it.

You don’t even know the source of your so-called “independent” European news from the internet.   All I’m hearing from you is that choose to believe what you want to believe. 
 

And by the way MSM didn’t say with certainty that Russia sabotaged Nordstream, only that it’s one plausible scenario among other equally possible scenarios.

 Only your so-called “independent” media is claiming certainty….that the west did it.
 

And no it’s not asinine, you’ll recall that Russia had already deliberately slowed nordstreams flow and Germany was even forced to beg Canada to release a seized Russian Nordstream turbine being repaired in Canada (and Canada agreed over Ukrainian objections). 

[Nationalist]

14 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

Yes.  That's why we're doing it.  ?

Sadimir is a delusional villain and it's very much in our interest to see him toppled, or at the very least cucked.  So far #2 has already happened.  We'll have to wait and see if he survives this self-inflicted disaster.  

Oh hi slime.

Lied or misquoted anyone today?

[Moonbox]

On 10/12/2022 at 12:55 PM, Nationalist said:

I have never "cheered" on any of this.

Just more Tweenkie lies from twits who are incapable of thought past CNN.

I don't care for either Zelinisky or Putin.

But so you warmongers know what it is to doom thousands to their deaths...I'm kind of hoping the Russians utterly destroy Ukraine...while NATO watches on helplessly.

They were direct quotes, you goof.  

Those two bolded statements (in the exact same post no less!!) are perfect examples of your screwy reasoning and loose grasp on reality.  You couldn't even go a full paragraph without contradicting yourself and proving how completely full of BS you are.   ? 

[Nationalist]

19 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

You don’t even know the source of your so-called “independent” European news from the internet.   All I’m hearing from you is that choose to believe what you want to believe. 
 

And by the way MSM didn’t say with certainty that Russia sabotaged Nordstream, only that it’s one plausible scenario among other equally possible scenarios.

 Only your so-called “independent” media is claiming certainty….that the west did it.
 

And no it’s not asinine, you’ll recall that Russia had already deliberately slowed nordstreams flow and Germany was even forced to beg Canada to release a seized Russian Nordstream turbine being repaired in Canada (and Canada agreed over Ukrainian objections). 

Dude...

Quote

Evidence continues to accumulate regarding underwater explosions that blew huge holes in two Russia-to-Germany natural gas pipelines on Sept. 27, and the circumstances all point to what a official NATO statement called “deliberate” sabotage. Sweden and Denmark have officially informed the U.N. Security Council that there were “at least two detonations” using “several hundred kilos” of explosives. This is the kind of capability usually wielded by a state actor, though NATO did not say officially what everyone suspects unofficially: The author of this strike against Europe’s stability and security was Russia.

This is the sort of nonsense that has idiots like Donna LeMon and MSNBC salivate. The report this over and over until silly hearsay becomes reality. Much like the RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA folly.

Need I remind you...

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/if-russia-invades-ukraine-there-will-be-no-nord-stream-2-biden-says-2022-02-07/

Poland's former Defense and Foreign Minister Radosław Sikorski tweeted a photo of one of the gas leaks and wrote, "Thank you, USA." Sikorski later deleted his tweet.

American helicopter with the call sign FFAB123, hovered over both sabatoge sites on Sept. 2.

Hmmm...gee that's sort of interesting eh?

[BeaverFever]

6 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

American helicopter with the call sign FFAB123, hovered over both sabatoge sites on Sept. 2.

Again this claim was first made by a Russian “think tank” on Telegram and has been debunked.  First because it’s highly unlikely if not impossible for the pipelines to have been sabotaged by air and was likely conducted by submarine/submersible  

 Second, while it’s a matter of public record from any flight tracking software that USN Seahawk FFAB123 was over the baltic sea that day it was not anywhere near the sabotaged sites. 
 

The former Polish minister is a FORMER minister -  ie not in government or a position to know anything - and also has been a known Russian sympathizer for some time 

[taxme]

On 9/29/2022 at 11:17 PM, Moonbox said:

Back in February we all probably assumed Russia would roll over Ukraine with or without western arms assistance.  NATO wasn't going to set up a no-fly zone and the Russian air force was going to dismantle Ukrainian communications and infrastructure, interdict military maneuvers and allow the Russian armoured fist to encircle and isolate Ukrainian forces with ease. 

Fast forward some months, and the Russian army in Ukraine is crumbling.  Not only did their advances stall months ago, they're now losing large swathes of territory and facing encirclement in Lyman -  a major hub in eastern Ukraine which will open up all of the Donbass to Ukrainian operations.  

What was previously understood as a military juggernaut has been revealed as an utterly dysfunctional institution - corrupt and incompetent from top to bottom and in almost every way.  Corruption has drained the public coffers and left the Russian army outdated, poorly supplied/equipped and with incompetent/ineffective leadership.   While Ukrainian officers are empowered to take initiative and seize opportunities where they arise (per western military tradition), their confused and unmotivated Russian counterparts are unwilling to do much of anything without explicit orders from their superiors.  This isn't out of cowardice - it would be hard to find a people more stoic than the Russians.  What they fear is being held responsible for failure and the decisions they made.  They therefore elect to make none at all.  Your superiors can't hold you responsible for obeying their orders, and so nothing gets done without them.  

When lies form the bedrock of a regime like Putin's, it permeates everything.  It's not just a matter of Putin and his cronies lying to the people.  Everyone is lying to everyone.  Leadership lies to subordinates to coerce and manipulate them, who in turn fear speaking their minds and lie right back to them.  These lies become second nature and pretty soon everyone is lying to everyone.  Bribery and corruption are the norm.  Cooked books and reports are presented to officers/leaders, who in turn cook them further up the chain.  The end result is a detachment from reality where decisions are made based on inaccurate or downright absurd information.  When the inevitable disasters roll in, leadership assigns blame for the bad information, failing to realize that they'd created an environment that made reliable information almost impossible. 

This is a negative feedback loop that has played out many times before, and especially in Russia's case leads to ruin.  We're witnessing the end of Putin's regime.  Whether he goes out quietly and the Russian Federation reforms, or he's dragged kicking and screaming - the rot has become apparent.  Lies have a habit of catching up to you, and in Putin's case too many soldiers are going to Ukraine and dying without ever seeing a Nazi or NATO soldier.  They're telling their families about it.  The plausibility of the Kremlin's narrative is fraying, and Russian soldiers (particularly conscripts) will not entertain dying for nothing for long.  

I have not counted out Putin just yet. I believe that Putin will win his fight with the corrupt Nazi Zelensky regime. Corrupt Zelensky would have lost the war already if it were not for the NATO members feeding him cash and military equipment. 

And why is NATO giving all this aid to Ukraine anyway? Why is the west so eager to support Ukraine? Why should we the people in the west give a shit about this war going on between Russia and Ukraine? I last heard that the chosen globalist ones have an interest in Zelensky and need to keep his Fascist regime up and running. There is more to this feud than what we are being told. I never can really trust the western media nor our politicians anymore and what they say. They both have pretty much become professional liars and bull shitters. Just my opinion of course. ?

[taxme]

47 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Again this claim was first made by a Russian “think tank” on Telegram and has been debunked.  First because it’s highly unlikely if not impossible for the pipelines to have been sabotaged by air and was likely conducted by submarine/submersible  

 Second, while it’s a matter of public record from any flight tracking software that USN Seahawk FFAB123 was over the baltic sea that day it was not anywhere near the sabotaged sites. 
 

The former Polish minister is a FORMER minister -  ie not in government or a position to know anything - and also has been a known Russian sympathizer for some time 

Man, have you ever been thoroughly brainwashed by the leftist lieberal western lying media. The Americans were behind the blowing up of the Crimea bridge. Even old senile BiDumb once said that we will, if need be, do something about the Russian pipe line. The western media has gone ballistic over Russia and Putin. They seem to be in great fear of Putin. 

Probably, it is because Putin is not one of those globalist puppets that they can push around like our own dear leader globalist puppet in Ottawa is. Why is the Canadian taxpayer sending millions of their tax dollars to a corrupt Nazi Zelensky government anyway to help fight Russia? I have no pony in that Russian'Ukraine race so why is my tax dollars being blown on Ukraine? I could careless about what happens in Ukraine just like I could careless about the many feuds going on between many African countries. Why are we not talking about those feuds going on in Africa every day like we have to hear and read about every day on the news about Ukraine. I am fed up and sick and tired of hearing about Russia-Russia-Russia. 

That is all most American politicians talk about every day is Russia-Russia-Russia. What is with this obsession with Russia anyway? I never see Russia going around and invading other countries like America does. We need to get the Russian side of the story here, and not just the Ukraniain side of the story. We need balance here, and not more bull shit. Just my opinion of course. ?

[Nationalist]

2 hours ago, Moonbox said:

They were direct quotes, you goof.  

Those two bolded statements (in the exact same post no less!!) are perfect examples of your screwy reasoning and loose grasp on reality.  You couldn't even go a full paragraph without contradicting yourself and proving how completely full of BS you are.   ? 

You're slime.! That's all there is to it Sally.

[Nationalist]

1 hour ago, BeaverFever said:

Again this claim was first made by a Russian “think tank” on Telegram and has been debunked.  First because it’s highly unlikely if not impossible for the pipelines to have been sabotaged by air and was likely conducted by submarine/submersible  

 Second, while it’s a matter of public record from any flight tracking software that USN Seahawk FFAB123 was over the baltic sea that day it was not anywhere near the sabotaged sites. 
 

The former Polish minister is a FORMER minister -  ie not in government or a position to know anything - and also has been a known Russian sympathizer for some time 

Except...of course...I don't believe a word I read from the MSM, and I don't remember anyone saying the helicopter actually bombed or sabotaged "from the air" at all. Do you?

[Moonbox]

56 minutes ago, taxme said:

I have not counted out Putin just yet. I believe that Putin will win his fight with the corrupt Nazi Zelensky regime. Corrupt Zelensky would have lost the war already if it were not for the NATO members feeding him cash and military equipment. 

You want to believe Putin will win.  He will not.  He's running an economy smaller than Canada's and trying to beat down a motivated opponent with the economic backing of all of NATO (with at least 20x the resources).  If the Russians were motivated to fight, he might have had a chance, but they aren't.  They're quickly realizing how full of shit he is and the already unmotivated Russian army will continue to lose cohesion.  Once the Russians toss Putin out of power, it'll be interesting to see how you cope with that.  How will you rationalize even the Russians not believing all of Putin's lying and propaganda?   

56 minutes ago, taxme said:

And why is NATO giving all this aid to Ukraine anyway? Why is the west so eager to support Ukraine? 

Because we have 100+ years of history that tells us Putin wouldn't stop there, so it's in everyone's interest to thwart him now.  

[BeaverFever]

3 hours ago, taxme said:

Man, have you ever been thoroughly brainwashed by the leftist lieberal western lying media. The Americans were behind the blowing up of the Crimea bridge. Even old senile BiDumb once said that we will, if need be, do something about the Russian pipe line. The western media has gone ballistic over Russia and Putin. They seem to be in great fear of Putin. 

Probably, it is because Putin is not one of those globalist puppets that they can push around like our own dear leader globalist puppet in Ottawa is. Why is the Canadian taxpayer sending millions of their tax dollars to a corrupt Nazi Zelensky government anyway to help fight Russia? I have no pony in that Russian'Ukraine race so why is my tax dollars being blown on Ukraine? I could careless about what happens in Ukraine just like I could careless about the many feuds going on between many African countries. Why are we not talking about those feuds going on in Africa every day like we have to hear and read about every day on the news about Ukraine. I am fed up and sick and tired of hearing about Russia-Russia-Russia. 

That is all most American politicians talk about every day is Russia-Russia-Russia. What is with this obsession with Russia anyway? I never see Russia going around and invading other countries like America does. We need to get the Russian side of the story here, and not just the Ukraniain side of the story. We need balance here, and not more bull shit. Just my opinion of course. ?

The brainwashed conspiracist returns. What hospital have they been keeping you in this time?  Yeah yeah the west is evil. Putin is great, all those people he murderers deserve what get. We must all bow down to our great Russian master only then will we truly be free.  Blah blah blah, We’ve heard your nonsense already