Canadian Government must support the Women of Iran against the repressive Islamic Republic.

[Contrarian]

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

All I can say is read the King James Bible and study it, particularly the New Testament.

I read the doctrine of the New Testament. Good theory, practical I don't want to start talking about the Crusades. 

To study I won't have time, first are my taxes. 

"Many travel the same way, but on different paths."  Interpret that the way you want it. Is a free country, this is why me and you can debate. 

In the 1980's if a priest would have reported my views to the system: (that I don't like organised religion and despise communism) -> then they would have dragged me into a dark room. 

and hope you can also understand when I see such sings in people that claim to be on the side of truth, is hard for me to abstain when I remember of the same excesses that other people made in the name of Almighty. 

Edited December 10, 2022 by Contrarian

[CITIZEN_2015]

3 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

it is not actually true

this foreigner makes a false distinction between "Canada" & "The British"

when in fact, Canada is British

You uneducated high school drop out subhuman. Less than a third of Canadians are British origins. You just called two-thirds of Canadians foreigners, You are the only foreigner  here with subhuman values in total contradiction to belief in equality, love and respect on which Canadian culture is built on, you kicked out soldier.. Why don't you take your subhuman attitudes and shove it up your ass. 

You are old and ugly and full of hate loser who blame others for his failures and losses and full of age spots covering all over your trashy white skin.

ps- when moderators don't do their jobs in moderating the posts I reported I have to respond and take it into my own hands,

Edited December 10, 2022 by CITIZEN_2015

[blackbird]

48 minutes ago, Contrarian said:

 

To study I won't have time, first are my taxes. 

I will leave you with this quote: "Many travel the same way, but on different paths."  Interpret that the way you want it. Is a free country, this is why me and you can debate. 

 

You say you don't have time?   The most important thing in life according to biblical revelation is to be right with God and ready to meet your Creator.

The notion that many are travelling the same way but on different paths is a very simplistic, false idea.  The fact is most people are on the wrong path and heading for hell.  But many make their own choices.  Jesus came to save people.  That is the central message.   One should consider that the top priority and that should be resolved before spending any time on anything else.  But like you said it is a free country and everyone makes their own decision about spiritual matters and where they want to spend eternity.

quote

The Bible in (less than) 300 Words

In the beginning, God created the heavens,the earth, and mankind. Adam and Eve disobeyed God, resulting in a broken relationship with Him. Not giving up on mankind, God established covenants, including those with Abraham and Moses.

In the Promised Land, God provided for judges and kings, yet over the long stretch of their history the Israelites remained discontented. Unfaithfulness finally led to alliances that resulted in the exile to Babylon, during which the prophet Jeremiah told of God’s passion for reconciliation: a new covenant, through the coming of a Messiah.

An angel announced to the Virgin Mary that she would be with child, the foretold Messiah of David’s lineage.  John, the Baptist, prepared the way for the Messiah and baptized Jesus.  Jesus claimed to be the son of God, preaching God’s love and forgiveness through faith, not laws: fulfilling and supplanting the Mosaic covenant. His teaching, especially his parables, included messages of salvation and love.  He also performed many miracles.

Jesus’ ministry threatened the Pharisees’ status as well as Roman control.  He was crucified.  After his resurrection, Jesus came to his apostles and told them to preach his words to all mankind.  Jesus’ death and resurrection became the source of eternal salvation.

When the disciples were empowered by the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, they began to share with everyone the good news of God’s redemptive work in Jesus. The new church struggled to understand how Jews and gentiles could be united as followers of Jesus. In this united church, God made a way for all people who follow Jesus to be brought back to the relationship God desired. God had been seeking to restore this relationship ever since it was first broken.    unquote

The Bible in (less than) 300 Words | The Dilettante's Dilemma (thedilettantesdilemma.com)

[Contrarian]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

You say you don't have time?   The most important thing in life according to biblical revelation is to be right with God and ready to meet your Creator.

The notion that many are travelling the same way but on different paths is a very simplistic, false idea.  The fact is most people are on the wrong path and heading for hell.  But many make their own choices.  Jesus came to save people.  That is the central message.   One should consider that the top priority and that should be resolved before spending any time on anything else.  But like you said it is a free country and everyone makes their own decision about spiritual matters and where they want to spend eternity.

quote

The Bible in (less than) 300 Words

In the beginning, God created the heavens,the earth, and mankind. Adam and Eve disobeyed God, resulting in a broken relationship with Him. Not giving up on mankind, God established covenants, including those with Abraham and Moses.

In the Promised Land, God provided for judges and kings, yet over the long stretch of their history the Israelites remained discontented. Unfaithfulness finally led to alliances that resulted in the exile to Babylon, during which the prophet Jeremiah told of God’s passion for reconciliation: a new covenant, through the coming of a Messiah.

An angel announced to the Virgin Mary that she would be with child, the foretold Messiah of David’s lineage.  John, the Baptist, prepared the way for the Messiah and baptized Jesus.  Jesus claimed to be the son of God, preaching God’s love and forgiveness through faith, not laws: fulfilling and supplanting the Mosaic covenant. His teaching, especially his parables, included messages of salvation and love.  He also performed many miracles.

Jesus’ ministry threatened the Pharisees’ status as well as Roman control.  He was crucified.  After his resurrection, Jesus came to his apostles and told them to preach his words to all mankind.  Jesus’ death and resurrection became the source of eternal salvation.

When the disciples were empowered by the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, they began to share with everyone the good news of God’s redemptive work in Jesus. The new church struggled to understand how Jews and gentiles could be united as followers of Jesus. In this united church, God made a way for all people who follow Jesus to be brought back to the relationship God desired. God had been seeking to restore this relationship ever since it was first broken.    unquote

The Bible in (less than) 300 Words | The Dilettante's Dilemma (thedilettantesdilemma.com)

I understand this is what you believe. I might get you upset now but have not talked with a religious Christian man in a while and plan to get a perspective on perhaps my arrogance. 

I find it hard to disconnect Christianity from the golden calf story. Are you familiar with it? 

It is very hard for the human mind to sit in the darkness, desert, struggles, looking for that promised land, financial stress, emotion handling without something to believe in.

Do you think the struggles might be too much for some minds and hence are looking for shortcuts in a Jesus, Mohammed, Joseph Smith, etc, etc, etc.

There was reason and understanding way before the Abrahamic religions took hold through sectarianism. 

The teachings in Alexandria, if the world would have been allowed to continue without the dark times of organized religion, who knows where humanity would have been today? 

I agree though that it would have been a gamble. Even though reason comes to people, without the basic programming of those basic teachings who knows where society would have led but at the end these tools are nothing more like the golden calf, temporary solutions in my view. 

You might be romanticising a time where you think everyone went to church and was happy. I highly doubt the reality was like that. 

Edited December 10, 2022 by Contrarian

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

You uneducated high school drop out subhuman. Less than a third of Canadians are British origins. You just called two-thirds of Canadians foreigners, You are the only foreigner  here with subhuman values in total contradiction to belief in equality, love and respect on which Canadian culture is built on, you kicked out soldier.. Why don't you take your subhuman attitudes and shove it up your ass. 

You are old and ugly and full of hate loser who blame others for his failures and losses and full of age spots covering all over your trashy white skin.

ps- when moderators don't do their jobs in moderating the posts I reported I have to respond and take it into my own hands,

Get a grip ffs.

I know that this is a big issue for you, but keep things in perspective: 1 woman was killed, then Iran started doing what almost every muslim country does once in a while - terrorize everyone in the country who doesn't live every second of their life to the satisfaction of its religious leaders. 

There are wars all over the place. The US gov't kills lots of people all the time. 

You're having a tantrum because someone doesn't want to get involved in Iran's shithole country problems.

What would we do? Have our disgrace of a PM try to pontificate to the Iranian gov't? FYI the time when Canada was widely respected is long gone. A lecture from Kim-Jong-Un would carry just as much weight. 

[CITIZEN_2015]

3 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Get a grip ffs.

I know that this is a big issue for you, but keep things in perspective: 1 woman was killed, then Iran started doing what almost every muslim country does once in a while - terrorize everyone in the country who doesn't live every second of their life to the satisfaction of its religious leaders. 

There are wars all over the place. The US gov't kills lots of people all the time. 

You're having a tantrum because someone doesn't want to get involved in Iran's shithole country problems.

What would we do? Have our disgrace of a PM try to pontificate to the Iranian gov't? FYI the time when Canada was widely respected is long gone. A lecture from Kim-Jong-Un would carry just as much weight. 

Not Iran but the the imposed islamic regime hated by population. And it is not Iran's problem. It is a problem with the whole world. Soon these murderers will have their nuclear weapons. They have their agents all over the world, Canada included. Nobody is asking Canada to be involved. Just kick out regime elements or associates having good lives in Canada. Canada must not give refuge to these people.

Not one woman killed but over 500 killed last 3 months over 60 of them children. You don't care?

I really don't like this guy's attitudes not because he doesn't want to get involved but because

This guy has been banned several times for trolling and extremism but each time comes back with a different name.

He is a troll.

He is racist likely a white Suprematist..

He hates non-British.

He calls only the British origins as Canadians so to him over two-thirds of Canadians are foreigners.

He calls me a foreigner even though I have been here since childhood and a tax payer past 30 years.

He has attitudes against the rest of the world who are not exactly like him.

Btw, the French defeated the English team in the world cup soccer today. So much for empty English superiority.

Edited December 11, 2022 by CITIZEN_2015

[blackbird]

7 hours ago, Contrarian said:

I understand this is what you believe. I might get you upset now but have not talked with a religious Christian man in a while and plan to get a perspective on perhaps my arrogance. 

I find it hard to disconnect Christianity from the golden calf story. Are you familiar with it? 

It is very hard for the human mind to sit in the darkness, desert, struggles, looking for that promised land, financial stress, emotion handling without something to believe in.

Do you think the struggles might be too much for some minds and hence are looking for shortcuts in a Jesus, Mohammed, Joseph Smith, etc, etc, etc.

There was reason and understanding way before the Abrahamic religions took hold through sectarianism. 

The teachings in Alexandria, if the world would have been allowed to continue without the dark times of organized religion, who knows where humanity would have been today? 

I agree though that it would have been a gamble. Even though reason comes to people, without the basic programming of those basic teachings who knows where society would have led but at the end these tools are nothing more like the golden calf, temporary solutions in my view. 

You might be romanticising a time where you think everyone went to church and was happy. I highly doubt the reality was like that. 

I had forgotten about the golden calf story.  Must have read it a long time ago.  It teaches that only the true God must be worshiped.  They made a golden calf and were worshiping it which caused God to be very angry and punish them.  Moses interceded for them or it could have been much worse.

Yes, many people struggle in life in various ways some more than others.  It would be a huge mistake to think that biblical faith or that the Bible was invented to provide emotional relief for people.  The Bible was written by prophets and apostles who actually experienced what they wrote.  Many of them died for their faith.  People don't die for a lie.

This is where you need to determine whether what the Bible is telling us is true or just an imaginary story.  The Bible was written by about 40 different authors over a period of 1,500 years yet it all fits together like a puzzle.  

An extremely important issue to settle in one's mind is the resurrection of Jesus Christ.  If he was crucified, died, and was buried or placed in the tomb, and then the third day was resurrected from the dead as the Bible prophesies and as he predicted, then what the Bible says must be accepted as the truth.  Quite a number of people are recorded as having seen Jesus Christ after he was resurrected.  Jesus spoke about the Holy Scriptures.  If he was raised from the dead, then what he said about being the Son of God (and being God) must be accepted and the whole Bible is then validated.

A lawyer once decided to do a serious investigation of this and after much consideration and study, he came to the conclusion that Jesus Christ was resurrected from the dead.  It would hold up in a court of law because eye witnesses are considered as the major determining factor.  This is what each of the four gospels give an account of.  Each wrote in his own way.

[eyeball]

23 hours ago, blackbird said:

...cozying up with China for decades, you know you have a serious problem.

That was your guys idea - you were being good little capitalists and screaming commie at anyone who dissed you.

I was there. I saw what happened.

[Dougie93]

my position is not in any way extreme

saying that Canada is a British Confederation, born of the British Empire;  is simply stating an historical fact

I take no side in the conflict internal to Iran, my position is non interventionist

for three main reasons

one, Canada is already in an strategic confrontation with Russia

Canada is neither equipped nor prepared to add a confrontation with Iran to the threat matrix

two, Canada has already suffered three defeats by intervention in Islamic countries

Afghanistan, Iraq & Mali

three,  Canada intervening in the conflict actually benefits the regime in Tehran

which will point it as being foreign interference by the British

in terms of white supremacy, i make no claims to British equating with being white

British is not a place, British is not a race

British is a system of Governance called Parliamentary Supremacy

founded by the Dutch Regent William III Prince of Orange in the Glorious Revolution of 1688

 

 

[Dougie93]

19 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Get a grip ffs.

I know that this is a big issue for you, but keep things in perspective: 1 woman was killed, then Iran started doing what almost every muslim country does once in a while - terrorize everyone in the country who doesn't live every second of their life to the satisfaction of its religious leaders. 

There are wars all over the place. The US gov't kills lots of people all the time. 

You're having a tantrum because someone doesn't want to get involved in Iran's shithole country problems.

What would we do? Have our disgrace of a PM try to pontificate to the Iranian gov't? FYI the time when Canada was widely respected is long gone. A lecture from Kim-Jong-Un would carry just as much weight. 

the rush for Canada to intervene in Iran is the definition of hubris

Iran is more powerful than Canada

Iran can project power against Canada

Iran could retaliate by providing state support to terrorism in Canada

that it what the Revolutionary Guard Quds Force does

Canada really doesn't have the defences to prevent Iran from wreaking havoc on Canadian soil

the Biden Administration is making deals with Iran, Washington is not taking the lead here

Canada cannot afford to go out on.a limb against the Iranians

this is a regime survival issue in Iran

the regime must crush this uprising or risk being overthrown

that is a cornered & desperate animal which is likely to lash out aggressively without warning

Canada is simply out of its league here, playing at intervention in Iran

[Contrarian]

@CITIZEN_2015 never said that he wants Canada to intervene in Iran, he is an Iranian nationalist (Citizen) in my view which I don't think in 2022 one can build a nation if a revolution succeeds by emerging into isolationism. We disagree on this point. 

His main issue is with the Canadian government having not expelled Iranian permanent residents of Canada or Iranian nationals that are on Canadian soil. We also disagree here. 

Democracy has a cost, and sometimes the price we all need to pay is unfortunate things like this, to see former IRGC members oppressing women in their country and then working out in a Toronto gym.

There is a process, the federal government needs to follow a process, you can't have the 1970 secret police arresting permanent residents of Iranian citizenship without a process. 

Is painful to watch, but although this system looks like weakness, is the difference in my opinion why Western systems succeed rather than a Savak or IRGC system. One needs to be able to pay the price of short term tolerance and patience towards insanity to collect the final fruits of victory. 

Edited December 11, 2022 by Contrarian

[Contrarian]

Just now, Dougie93 said:

not at all

the only nationalism I subscribe to

is Quebec nationalism

Vive la Canadennes

Je me souviens

 

I meant in my view Citizen2005 is an Iranian nationalist, not you, he mentioned before he does not want Canada to intervene in Iran. 

[Dougie93]

6 minutes ago, Contrarian said:

I meant in my view Citizen2005 is an Iranian nationalist, not you, he mentioned before he does not want Canada to intervene in Iran. 

well, then as a Quebec nationalist

I say it is not in the interests of Quebec to start rounding up Iranians in Canada

under the auspices of them being agents of the regime in Tehran somehow

that is a recipe for disaster

realpolitik, Canada should not conduct its strategic affairs by hysterical moral panic

[Dougie93]

the idea that we have to take a hard line position against the regime in Tehran

when we are actively supporting the equally tyrannical regime in Saudi Arabia

makes no logical sense

the Saudi's are chopping people's heads off left & right

while we are selling them $15 billion worth of armoured vehicles made in London Ontario

clearly, there is no imperative for Canada to take positions against tyranny in the Middle East

[CITIZEN_2015]

7 hours ago, Contrarian said:

@CITIZEN_2015 never said that he wants Canada to intervene in Iran,

That is exactly right. But he is lying and he knows he is lying. He keeps posting nonsense and lies. That is why I see him as a troll.

I said again and again in various responses to posts by other, NO MILITARY INTERVENTION. Iranians will overthrow this regime and CHANGE HAS TO COME FROM INSIDE by Iranians only. Iranians do not want a repetition of 1953 coup or the Carter administration transfer of power of 1979,  After all of these the guy accuses me of wanting Canada to intervene militarily and he lies so blatantly tp score points. And the moderators on this forum are sleep and don't do their jobs to kick the trolls out.

All I asked is for the West not to support the murderous islamic republic regime.

1 - Do not negotiate with  this regime or deal with this lying murderous regime. Nuclear deal or any other deal.

2 - Dismiss their so called diplomats and ambassadors from your countries. Do not have a diplomatic relations with this regime. By doing so you recognize this child killer woman killer regime as a legitimate government. They are not. They are not representing Iran nation.

3 - Kick out regime associates.  Do not give sanctuary to murderers and criminals, This is the law in Canada. When these monsters applied for immigration to Canada no matter how many years ago they hide their criminal activities (like being a police chief of Tehran of a bloodthirsty regime)  . Canada can lawfully and democratically kick them out.

No intervention of any kind in Iran. Iranians will change the regime from inside themselves and will bring about democracy to Iran and a safer and more secure world.

Edited December 12, 2022 by CITIZEN_2015

[blackbird]

8 hours ago, eyeball said:

That was your guys idea - you were being good little capitalists and screaming commie at anyone who dissed you.

I was there. I saw what happened.

  It was the Liberals who have been leaders is naively trying to establish close relations with Communist China all along.  It finally has come home to bite them.  Everyone knows who cozied up to Communist China for many decades.  It was mainly liberals.  First with former PM Pierre Trudeau who made Canada the first country to recognize Communist China under chairman Mao in 1970 and then PM Justin Trudeau tried to cozy up to China a few years ago.  He even said how he admired their system.  But they rejected him as a useful tool, which he has been.  The Liberal government has been a disaster in almost every way.

 

Edited December 12, 2022 by blackbird

[eyeball]

16 minutes ago, blackbird said:

  It was the Liberals who have been leaders is naively trying to establish close relations with Communist China all along.  It finally has come home to bite them.  Everyone knows who cozied up to Communist China for many decades.  It was mainly liberals.  First with former PM Pierre Trudeau who made Canada the first country to recognize Communist China under chairman Mao in 1970 and then PM Justin Trudeau tried to cozy up to China a few years ago.  He even said how he admired their system.  But they rejected him as a useful tool, which he has been.  The Liberal government has been a disaster in almost every way.

Is that some sort of excuse for why the Conservatives naively followed along?

Everyone had their reasons for getting cozy and Conservatives chose to be champions for the capitalistic reasons for doing so.  How's that working out for you BTW?  

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Is that some sort of excuse for why the Conservatives naively followed along?

Everyone had their reasons for getting cozy and Conservatives chose to be champions for the capitalistic reasons for doing so.  How's that working out for you BTW?  

I don't defend Conservatives that followed along, but what Conservatives might have done regarding China pales in comparison to the Liberal gang.  They were the champions of cozying up to China and they have a lot of friends who are capitalists too. 

Trudeau attended cash-for-access fundraiser with Chinese billionaires

Trudeau attended cash-for-access fundraiser with Chinese billionaires - The Globe and Mail

RICH CHINESE ARE FUNDING THE LIBERALS, TRUDEAU DEFENDS

Rich Chinese are funding the Liberals, Trudeau defends | The Siver Times

No wonder Trudeau has dragged his feet all along and refuses to do anything that might offend his friends and China.

 

[blackbird]

The U.S. did it. The EU might. Why Canada won't put Iran's revolutionary guard on its terrorist list | CBC News

Edited December 12, 2022 by blackbird

[eyeball]

39 minutes ago, blackbird said:

I don't defend Conservatives that followed along, but what Conservatives might have done regarding China pales in comparison to the Liberal gang.  

If you're in for a penny you're in for a pound.

[Contrarian]

6 hours ago, blackbird said:

The U.S. did it. The EU might. Why Canada won't put Iran's revolutionary guard on its terrorist list | CBC News

This was a good article explaining the concerns of the government but also presenting the other side, the expert -> Mr. House said also the counterpoint, that it would send a symbolic message and the Taliban are already on that list (The Taliban are the official government now in Afghanistan). 

The only thing against that would be that the Taliban almost never go internationally, they are the type of religious fanatics that just want to be left alone to live in the last century. I don't even think the Americans would have taken such issue with the Taliban if they would have just surrendered Osama bin-Landen and Al-Queda members back in the day. Reagan even invited them to the White House when they were fighting against the Soviets. The Taliban wanted to be bigger than they were and paid the price. Now they are back at it. 

So adding the Taliban on the list means no extra effort really, as you would find 0 Taliban probably in Canada, the IRGC being added that would be extremely complicated legally. I don't agree with going after permanent residents without a process and serious investigation case by case individually. Not even sure that would be possible logistically, with the war in Europe -> the intelligence community efforts are aimed elsewhere now. Just the reality of the situation. 

Edited December 12, 2022 by Contrarian

[Contrarian]

Recent Key Takeaways:

• The Iranian regime executed a protester for the second time since the Mahsa Amini protests began as part of the regime effort to deter protest turnout and instill terror among the public.
• Protest coordinators and organizations called for demonstrations in response to the execution of Majid Reza Rahnavard and seemed to have limited success in generating turnout on short notice.
• The ineffectiveness and brutal nature of the regime protest crackdown has continued to fragment Iranian political elite.
• At least seven protests occurred in four cities across four provinces.
  
  https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/iran-crisis-update-december-12

[Contrarian]

France says Iran diplomat was just summoned over country's attitude

PARIS, Dec 13 (Reuters) - France's foreign minister said on Tuesday Iran's charge d'affaires had previously been summoned over the country's role in Ukraine, crackdowns on protesters at home and the treatment of seven French nationals, currently in custody.

--> Tehran has previous accused the French intelligence services, the DGSE (without proof) of being involved directly in the protests. 

[WestCanMan]

On 12/10/2022 at 4:44 PM, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Not Iran but the the imposed islamic regime hated by population. And it is not Iran's problem. It is a problem with the whole world. Soon these murderers will have their nuclear weapons. They have their agents all over the world, Canada included. Nobody is asking Canada to be involved. Just kick out regime elements or associates having good lives in Canada. Canada must not give refuge to these people.

Not one woman killed but over 500 killed last 3 months over 60 of them children. You don't care?

I really don't like this guy's attitudes not because he doesn't want to get involved but because

This guy has been banned several times for trolling and extremism but each time comes back with a different name.

He is a troll.

He is racist likely a white Suprematist..

He hates non-British.

He calls only the British origins as Canadians so to him over two-thirds of Canadians are foreigners.

He calls me a foreigner even though I have been here since childhood and a tax payer past 30 years.

He has attitudes against the rest of the world who are not exactly like him.

Btw, the French defeated the English team in the world cup soccer today. So much for empty English superiority.

It's a bit late for people to come around to the realization of what islam is. I honestly don't see how the murder of that 1 woman was an epiphany for so many people. 

[Contrarian]

How Canadian doctors are helping Iranian colleagues document brutality of regime
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/canadian-iranian-doctors-regime-abuses-1.6683941

---

Iran sentences Belgian aid worker to 28 years in prison
https://www.reuters.com/world/iran-sentences-belgian-aid-worker-28-years-prison-2022-12-14/