CEOs back leftists UBI push

[West]

https://ceosforbasicincome.ca/letter-2022

So some of the wealthiest CEOs are now jumping on the UBI train. And leftists pretend still they are about the working class. 

They are partnering with big corps to enslave the masses. Communism coupled with corporate fascism... thats the model. Double whammy. Kowtow or lose your ability to eat just like the disgusting vaxx passes. 

[Michael Hardner]

21 minutes ago, West said:

 They are partnering with big corps to enslave the masses. Communism coupled with corporate fascism... thats the model. Double whammy. 

I'm not interested in their plan, but how does paying people to do nothing equate to slavery exactly?

Slavery: no pay, work 

UBI: pay, no work

 

 

 

[TreeBeard]

19 minutes ago, West said:

lose your ability to eat just like the disgusting vaxx passes. 

Vax passes caused people to lose their ability to eat?  
 

20 minutes ago, West said:

Communism coupled with corporate fascism

Communism - state ownership of all private resources 

Corporate fascism - is that a corporatocracy where corporations control the government?

 

Seems like these two systems are mutually exclusive.  
You sure you’re not just throwing out buzzwords like poop to a wall and seeing what sticks?

[West]

9 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Vax passes caused people to lose their ability to eat?  
 

Communism - state ownership of all private resources 

Corporate fascism - is that a corporatocracy where corporations control the government?

 

Seems like these two systems are mutually exclusive.  
You sure you’re not just throwing out buzzwords like poop to a wall and seeing what sticks?

I fail to see how UBI, where governments control how much money you get monthly, is not communism. 

I also fail to see how corporate hogs forcing their will on the population isn't fascism. 

It's a marriage between the two. 

[West]

11 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I'm not interested in their plan, but how does paying people to do nothing equate to slavery exactly?

Slavery: no pay, work 

UBI: pay, no work

 

 

 

Your ubi will be tied to your wokeness just like your job was tied to your pseudovax

[TreeBeard]

1 hour ago, West said:

I fail to see how UBI, where governments control how much money you get monthly, is not communism. 

That’s simply a failing of your knowledge, and maybe a lack of ability for you to learn or understand what communism is.  
 

1 hour ago, West said:

I also fail to see how corporate hogs forcing their will on the population isn't fascism. 

It's a marriage between the two. 

What are they forcing on the population?  Be specific. 

[West]

2 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

That’s simply a failing of your knowledge, and maybe a lack of ability for you to learn or understand what communism is.  
 

What are they forcing on the population?  Be specific. 

Or just you trying to dance around the actual issues by arguing about words. Lowest form of argument. 

I would imagine UBI will be tied to woke causes as I've already stated. If you don't agree with the government no rations for you.. 

[Michael Hardner]

6 hours ago, West said:

Or just you trying to dance around the actual issues by arguing about words. Lowest form of argument. 

What??

You called UBI "slavery"... that means something.  Stop skittering away and say what you mean like an adult.

[myata]

10 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

but how does paying people to do nothing equate to slavery exactly?

It doesn't equate to slavery, but it would create a significant totally dependent zero independence part of the population that will be extremely easy to manipulate (quasi democratically) with the carrot / stick scheme. A variant of the future described in Well's Time Machine and countless post apocalypse fiction. I just keep wondering are we doomed from the outset? In unknown number of generations just couldn't figure out how to 1) make sense and 2) keep it in a balance.

[Nationalist]

25 minutes ago, myata said:

It doesn't equate to slavery, but it would create a significant totally dependent zero independence part of the population that will be extremely easy to manipulate (quasi democratically) with the carrot / stick scheme. A variant of the future described in Well's Time Machine and countless post apocalypse fiction. I just keep wondering are we doomed from the outset? In unknown number of generations just couldn't figure out how to 1) make sense and 2) keep it in a balance.

I think this might be the first time I've ever agreed with you.

Mikey knows full well what West means by "slavery". But it's his precious institutions promoting it so, he'll defend it...right or wrong.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, myata said:

1. It doesn't equate to slavery, 

2. it would create a significant totally dependent zero independence part of the population that will be extremely easy to manipulate (quasi democratically) with the carrot / stick scheme.

3. A variant of the future described in Well's Time Machine and countless post apocalypse fiction. I just keep wondering are we doomed from the outset? In unknown number of generations just couldn't figure out how to 1) make sense and 2) keep it in a balance.

1. Thank you.
2. That trick doesn't work today though.  People vote against governments who provide mass benefits all the time.
3. Sure but at some point work will no longer be required.  At a minimum the volume of work and the character of it will be drastically different from manual labour.  I would say your concerns are valid but need to be part of a wider discussion.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

Mikey knows full well what West means by "slavery". But it's his precious institutions promoting it so, he'll defend it...right or wrong.

The word wasn't used properly.  As far as I can tell no government or party in Canada is pushing for this right now.

[West]

2 hours ago, myata said:

It doesn't equate to slavery, but it would create a significant totally dependent zero independence part of the population that will be extremely easy to manipulate (quasi democratically) with the carrot / stick scheme. A variant of the future described in Well's Time Machine and countless post apocalypse fiction. I just keep wondering are we doomed from the outset? In unknown number of generations just couldn't figure out how to 1) make sense and 2) keep it in a balance.

Sure it does.. recieving a small ration in exchange for complete obedience to the state.. 

Agree with the rest tho

[myata]

53 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

People vote against governments who provide mass benefits all the time.

You are using the word thoughtlessly. Word is the same but the meaning changed. People who have no independent foundation in life "vote" only for more and better handout. Russia, Venezuela the writing is everywhere.

[Michael Hardner]

34 minutes ago, myata said:

You are using the word thoughtlessly. Word is the same but the meaning changed. People who have no independent foundation in life "vote" only for more and better handout. Russia, Venezuela the writing is everywhere.

Sorry I didn't realize that we are changing word meanings here and therefore the new use is correct.

....

Stop it.

 

[myata]

17 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Sorry I didn't realize that we are changing word meanings

Didn't realize that the world can change and what's the point of a shell word that doesn't not reflect any viable reality? That our acts or inaction can change it? That "voting" can (easily) turn into jumping for bread and circuses? That's just too bad. The evolution doesn't speak excuses. Dinosaurs know.

[Nationalist]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

The word wasn't used properly.  As far as I can tell no government or party in Canada is pushing for this right now.

Ya...right.

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, myata said:

1. Didn't realize that the world can change and what's the point of a shell word that doesn't not reflect any viable reality? That our acts or inaction can change it? That "voting" can (easily) turn into jumping for bread and circuses? That's just too bad. The evolution doesn't speak excuses.
2. Dinosaurs know.

1.  I know words change but you can't stand up and say "diamonds" now mean "crap" and expect me to scoop diamonds out of your pants, no.
2. Somebody says something then can't back it up.  The answer is to say "Oops... I retract"... not to get your friend to say words don't mean words...
 

[myata]

58 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I know words change but you can't stand up and say "diamonds" now mean "crap" and expect me to scoop diamonds out of your pants, no.

But that's exactly what it is. If you "vote" for a higher number, another loaf of bread as opposed for competent and effective management of the common affairs and resources in the long term, would it be the same word, or meaning? Rats in the experiment "voted" for ever more sugary syrup. Great.

[Michael Hardner]

21 minutes ago, myata said:

But that's exactly what it is. If you "vote" for a higher number, another loaf of bread as opposed for competent and effective management of the common affairs and resources in the long term, would it be the same word, or meaning? Rats in the experiment "voted" for ever more sugary syrup. Great.

Rats didn't vote.  Do words change ?  Yes.  "Slavery" does not mean being given food and weed to lie about.  

You can argue that but this is the full context

"They are partnering with big corps to enslave the masses. Communism coupled with corporate fascism... thats the model. Double whammy. Kowtow or lose your ability to eat just like the disgusting vaxx passes. "

I would rewrite it as:

"They are partening with big corps to recreate Bread and Circuses of the Roman empire.  Socialist excess coupled with corporate soullessness... that's the model. "

I cant rewrite that last part because it doesn't make sense to me what "kowtow" would mean under UBI.  If you protest it you still get paid.

[myata]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Rats didn't vote.  Do words change ? 

Of course they did.. . if pushing a button means "voting"! Now you hurt innocent rats only to prove unprovable. Sorry, this discussion is on voting, slavery would have to be another.

[myata]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

I cant rewrite that last part because it doesn't make sense to me what "kowtow" would mean under UBI.  If you protest it you still get paid.

You don't get it. For protest you would need independent thinking and brain. There will be no protest where nothing independent is left. Russia and Venezuela know but looks like for some of us this is still a news.

[TreeBeard]

18 hours ago, West said:

Or just you trying to dance around the actual issues by arguing about words. Lowest form of argument. 

According to you, the problem is communism.  But you don’t seem to even know what that is. 
 

18 hours ago, West said:

I would imagine UBI will be tied to woke causes as I've already stated. If you don't agree with the government no rations for you.. 

Yes, you certainly do imagine a lot of things.  How would a UBI be tied to woke causes?   Be more specific.  

[West]

25 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

According to you, the problem is communism.  But you don’t seem to even know what that is. 
 

Yes, you certainly do imagine a lot of things.  How would a UBI be tied to woke causes?   Be more specific.  

No according to me the problem is a marriage between communism (big government) and fascism (corporate tyranny) which is evident to anyone paying attention. 

I would imagine UBI would work the same way as investment to business now and SDG scores. 

[TreeBeard]

32 minutes ago, West said:

No according to me the problem is a marriage between communism (big government) and fascism (corporate tyranny) which is evident to anyone paying attention. 

Right….  The two mutually exclusive bogey-men coming to hold you down and give you a vaccine…. Or something.  
 

33 minutes ago, West said:

I would imagine UBI would work the same way as investment to business now and SDG scores

None of that sentence made sense.  Try again.