Iceni warrior Posted June 12, 2022 Report Share Posted June 12, 2022 On 6/11/2022 at 12:22 PM, Yzermandius19 said: we both know you are anti-car under your eco-fascist ideological rubric yet this doesn't impede your love of F1 depends on who is driving and if you approve of the reason for driving I guess then the environment suddenly takes a backseat you are also anti-gun for different reasons no need to equate apples to oranges though Of course I'm not anti-car. I own one car and two 7.5 tonne trucks. I just accept that cars are dangerous and polluting which means they have to be highly regulated. I'm not anti-gun either. We have several on the farm and I've had air rifles since I was 10 years old. Guns are also dangerous and likewise should be highly regulated. How do you like them apples? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted June 12, 2022 Report Share Posted June 12, 2022 5 hours ago, ExFlyer said: I apologies for including you in the generic "you" term. This forum is so negative against the main stream media I just group the posters here in one lump. I actually believe that legal gun owners are not a problem whatsoever. I don't think the government is using deceit or lies or false and twisted information, they are just bowing to public pressure. I do not judge gun owners, I questioned why handguns, not judging, just questioned. My stance is just that the government is doing what the public wants, and the majority of the public. This is a democracy and as a rule, majority wins. This list? I did not see shotguns, pellet guns or air soft or bolt action. "there are approximately 90 000 restricted firearms that would be affected; " but that is manufactures list as opposed to types or styles. https://silvercore.ca/2022/04/01/the-complete-ban-list-of-newly-prohibited-firearms-in-canada-as-of-may-1-2020/ If legal gun owners are not the problem, why are legal gun owners the target of current legislation? And criminals are not mentioned? I list a few, assault-style firearms... they changed the definition of assault weapons, this new narrative is the one liberals have been using...why is it a lie, well Military grade assault weapons have been Illegal in Canada for decades now... The weapons being added to the list are designed for Civilian use, they have not assaulted weapons, they are sporting rifles. They are capable of receiving high-capacity magazines...which is true, but high-capacity magazines have been illegal for decades, banned and if you're caught with one you forfeit all your weapons for life... The government has been quoted using this phrase many times "they are designed to kill the maximum amount of people in the minimum time"... first Canadian magazines only hold 5 rounds no more, and second the rifle is semi-auto meaning only one bullet comes out for every squeeze of the trigger.. It was designed for civilian use , unlike military assault weapons which have a full auto capacity. Other lies include telling everyone gun deaths is increasing, when it has actually decreased, Quote Though the absolute number of homicides by firearm reached its highest level of the past five years in 2020 at 277, the proportion of homicides by firearm actually decreased. In 2020, 37.2 per cent of homicides involved a gun, compared with 40 per cent in 2017. Fact check: is gun violence rising in Canada? | CBC News CFFR has plenty of videos, out of all the rest of the lies, see the interview with bill Blair, at the end of the video they will tell you what is factual and what is not, keep in mind Blair was the chief of police in Toronto, one would assume he would know what he is talking about... (1) COMMENTARY: Data shows Toronto’s gun ‘surge’ never happened - Toronto | Globalnews.ca Once again the public is being misinformed by the government and does not know the whole story... That and the majority is not always right, we interned the Japanese Canadians with a mjority agreeing but later it was discovered it was the wrong thing to do...That and we already establish legal gun owners are not the problem. Gun Control Agenda Lies Exposed - Canadian Coalition for Firearm Rights Canada’s gun ban has some owners confused, angry. Here’s what we know about the rules - National | Globalnews.ca 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExFlyer Posted June 12, 2022 Report Share Posted June 12, 2022 17 minutes ago, Army Guy said: If legal gun owners are not the problem, why are legal gun owners the target of current legislation? And criminals are not mentioned? I list a few, assault-style firearms... they changed the definition of assault weapons, this new narrative is the one liberals have been using...why is it a lie, well Military grade assault weapons have been Illegal in Canada for decades now... The weapons being added to the list are designed for Civilian use, they have not assaulted weapons, they are sporting rifles. They are capable of receiving high-capacity magazines...which is true, but high-capacity magazines have been illegal for decades, banned and if you're caught with one you forfeit all your weapons for life... The government has been quoted using this phrase many times "they are designed to kill the maximum amount of people in the minimum time"... first Canadian magazines only hold 5 rounds no more, and second the rifle is semi-auto meaning only one bullet comes out for every squeeze of the trigger.. It was designed for civilian use , unlike military assault weapons which have a full auto capacity. Other lies include telling everyone gun deaths is increasing, when it has actually decreased, Fact check: is gun violence rising in Canada? | CBC News CFFR has plenty of videos, out of all the rest of the lies, see the interview with bill Blair, at the end of the video they will tell you what is factual and what is not, keep in mind Blair was the chief of police in Toronto, one would assume he would know what he is talking about... (1) COMMENTARY: Data shows Toronto’s gun ‘surge’ never happened - Toronto | Globalnews.ca Once again the public is being misinformed by the government and does not know the whole story... That and the majority is not always right, we interned the Japanese Canadians with a mjority agreeing but later it was discovered it was the wrong thing to do...That and we already establish legal gun owners are not the problem. Gun Control Agenda Lies Exposed - Canadian Coalition for Firearm Rights Canada’s gun ban has some owners confused, angry. Here’s what we know about the rules - National | Globalnews.ca Look, this is a age old circular argument. It crops up every time there is a mass shooting in the US, so far this year, 257 times. Misinformed is not the issue, people, the general public, are the ones demanding gun control and the government is pleasing the public. Me, keep your guns. We are not in the US but the majority of Canadians don't care. They do not want the possibility of this happening in Canada. Thanks for the discussion but, it will not lead to anything other than what the government dictates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted June 12, 2022 Report Share Posted June 12, 2022 4 hours ago, Iceni warrior said: Of course I'm not anti-car. I own one car and two 7.5 tonne trucks. I just accept that cars are dangerous and polluting which means they have to be highly regulated. I'm not anti-gun either. We have several on the farm and I've had air rifles since I was 10 years old. Guns are also dangerous and likewise should be highly regulated. How do you like them apples? anti-gun and anti-car something being dangerous doesn't mean the government having excessive control makes it any safer it just makes you feel safer, while it's actually more dangerous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted June 13, 2022 Report Share Posted June 13, 2022 21 hours ago, ExFlyer said: Look, this is a age old circular argument. It crops up every time there is a mass shooting in the US, so far this year, 257 times. Misinformed is not the issue, people, the general public, are the ones demanding gun control and the government is pleasing the public. Me, keep your guns. We are not in the US but the majority of Canadians don't care. They do not want the possibility of this happening in Canada. Thanks for the discussion but, it will not lead to anything other than what the government dictates. This is no different than any other issue we have in Canada, The government has made it a divisive issue and made it to look like they are doing something important when actually it is more smoking mirrors. The Majority of Canadians are misinformed, not sure what else to call it, either that or don't give a shit, or too stupid to see through the government's message. Even though you have said legal gun owners are not the problem, criminals are. So why would the majority of Canadians go along with a bill that targets just the legal gun owners, and does not solve the gun problem at all? it says volumes about their critical thought process does it not? or they have drunk the government's cool-aid and nothing else matters. And it has turned into a left versus a right issue, and fuck them guys if they like it, it has to be bad...shut er down, start the shouting right now... Just another example of how Canada is broken...and why we can not get anything solved or fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted June 13, 2022 Report Share Posted June 13, 2022 8 minutes ago, Army Guy said: Just another example of how Canada is broken...and why we can not get anything solved or fixed. it has always been broken Canada being a shotgun marriage between two sworn enemies the House of Hanover takes Nouvelle France from the House of Bourbon as a war prize Quebec is subjugated by force of arms upon the Plains of Abraham leading to the Treaty of Paris 1763 to end the Seven Years War birth of the British Empire the only legal claim the British Crown has over Canada, the basis of all Canadian constitutional law that is the DNA of Canada les Deux Solitudes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted June 13, 2022 Report Share Posted June 13, 2022 Quote Of course I'm not anti-car. I own one car and two 7.5 tonne trucks. I just accept that cars are dangerous and polluting which means they have to be highly regulated. I'm not anti-gun either. We have several on the farm and I've had air rifles since I was 10 years old. Guns are also dangerous and likewise should be highly regulated. How do you like them apples? Dangerous in what way they kill people, that can not be your augment, is it... If human life was indeed your primary concern why are we not putting our attention to those activities that kill more people, on one hand, we have 145 people murdered by firearms every year and 10 times that amount killed by drunk drivers, " Canada's leading cause of criminal death" why don't we tighten up those laws...why have we been distracted by the government to think this was a much more serious cause and we need tighter gun laws, to make us safer... I mean it makes sense to me what about you, lets's start at the bottom of the pile and work our way up...It has never been about making us safer, or saving lives...it's about politics and getting reelected. Quote Canada has the worst rate of drunk-driving deaths in the developed world. With an estimated 1,500 fatalities every year, it is Canada’s leading cause of criminal death, well above the 600 to 700 Canadians who die annually in homicides. Yet there is startlingly lenient treatment handed to the perpetrators of Canada’s single bloodiest crime. Drunk driving is Canada's deadliest crime – and one of our most lightly punished | National Post Quote 3.2 Firearm Deaths in Canada Over the past 25 years, there have been an average of 1,300 firearms deaths per year. Of the 1,125 firearm deaths in 1995, about 80.1 percent or 911 were classified as suicides; there were 145 homicides, representing 12.4 percent; and 49 unintentional deaths, for 4.3 percent of the total (Hung, 1997). These percentages have remained relatively stable over the past decade. In 1995, there was a lower rate of firearm deaths per 100,000 population than there had been in the previous 25 years. In 1970, the rate per 100,000 population was 5.2. It increased to a peak of 7.2 in 1977, and declined steadily to a rate of 3.8 in 1995 (Hung, 1997). 3. Overview of Firearm Deaths and Injuries - Firearms, Accidental Deaths, Suicides and Violent Crime: An Updated Review of the Literature with Special Reference to the Canadian Situation (justice.gc.ca) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExFlyer Posted June 14, 2022 Report Share Posted June 14, 2022 18 hours ago, Army Guy said: This is no different than any other issue we have in Canada, The government has made it a divisive issue and made it to look like they are doing something important when actually it is more smoking mirrors. The Majority of Canadians are misinformed, not sure what else to call it, either that or don't give a shit, or too stupid to see through the government's message. Even though you have said legal gun owners are not the problem, criminals are. So why would the majority of Canadians go along with a bill that targets just the legal gun owners, and does not solve the gun problem at all? it says volumes about their critical thought process does it not? or they have drunk the government's cool-aid and nothing else matters. And it has turned into a left versus a right issue, and fuck them guys if they like it, it has to be bad...shut er down, start the shouting right now... Just another example of how Canada is broken...and why we can not get anything solved or fixed. Gun ownership have been a divisive issue for many many years, regardless of what party is in power. The majority of Canadians are misinformed by what? They read, see or hear about crimes and issues with guns. they feel this is a problem. Just as you seem to feel there is not. The bill does not target legal gun owners. That is false. It targets specific weapons. Does it solve the gun problem (even you say there is a gun problem), who knows. Only the future can say. Canada is broken and has been broken for a long time, again, regardless who has been in power, or, maybe Canada functions as we, the people, want it to function? In a democracy, majority normally rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted June 14, 2022 Report Share Posted June 14, 2022 (edited) 20 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: Gun ownership have been a divisive issue for many many years, regardless of what party is in power. The majority of Canadians are misinformed by what? They read, see or hear about crimes and issues with guns. they feel this is a problem. Just as you seem to feel there is not. The bill does not target legal gun owners. That is false. It targets specific weapons. Does it solve the gun problem (even you say there is a gun problem), who knows. Only the future can say. Canada is broken and has been broken for a long time, again, regardless who has been in power, or, maybe Canada functions as we, the people, want it to function? In a democracy, majority normally rules. targeting specific objects doesn't solve the problem history can say, no need to see the future, every time they try it it fails every time it fails, Canadians clamor for similar restrictions that already failed then act incredulous when it fails again they always think it didn't work because their wasn't enough gun control it doesn't get any less informed than that on an issue Canadians don't know anything about guns but think they know the best gun policies but it turns out that people who nothing about guns actually propose idiotic gun policies, who knew? Edited June 14, 2022 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExFlyer Posted June 14, 2022 Report Share Posted June 14, 2022 48 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: targeting specific objects doesn't solve the problem history can say, no need to see the future, every time they try it it fails every time it fails, Canadians clamor for similar restrictions that already failed then act incredulous when it fails again they always think it didn't work because their wasn't enough gun control it doesn't get any less informed than that on an issue Canadians don't know anything about guns but think they know the best gun policies but it turns out that people who nothing about guns actually propose idiotic gun policies, who knew? Yeah and??? Idiotic to who? You? Maybe, but not to the majority. All governments do something to please the majority. There are rules and laws governing our lives, like it or not. There is no country or no period of time in human history when there have not been rules and laws. Even the neanderthals had the laws of nature to abide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted June 14, 2022 Report Share Posted June 14, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: Yeah and??? Idiotic to who? You? Maybe, but not to the majority. argument ad populum just because something is popular doesn't make it wise Canadian gun policy is a prime example of this phenomenon the majority don't find it idiotic because they're idiots who applaud idiocy them being the majority doesn't make them knowledgeable about guns Edited June 14, 2022 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExFlyer Posted June 14, 2022 Report Share Posted June 14, 2022 30 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: argument ad populum just because something is popular doesn't make it wise Canadian gun policy is a prime example of this phenomenon the majority don't find it idiotic because they're idiots who applaud idiocy them being the majority doesn't make them knowledgeable about guns Wise? When was that ever a requirement? Government is there to protect and appease the people. Good thing that with the majority of Canadians being idiots that folks like you are around LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted June 14, 2022 Report Share Posted June 14, 2022 30 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: Wise? When was that ever a requirement? Government is there to protect and appease the people. it's not protecting them just appeasing them and that's not a good thing in this case democracy is overrated especially when electorate is as dumb as Canadians are 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExFlyer Posted June 14, 2022 Report Share Posted June 14, 2022 1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said: it's not protecting them just appeasing them and that's not a good thing in this case democracy is overrated especially when electorate is as dumb as Canadians are One and/or the other. In your opinion and you know what the majority of Canadian sthink of your opinion Seems to me the electorate are Canadians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted June 14, 2022 Report Share Posted June 14, 2022 Just now, ExFlyer said: One and/or the other. In your opinion and you know what the majority of Canadian sthink of your opinion Seems to me the electorate are Canadians. some opinions are better than others and mine is better than most Canadians how popular my opinion is with Canadians isn't relevant I'm right and they are wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExFlyer Posted June 14, 2022 Report Share Posted June 14, 2022 1 hour ago, Yzermandius19 said: some opinions are better than others and mine is better than most Canadians how popular my opinion is with Canadians isn't relevant I'm right and they are wrong Don't hurt your arm patting yourself on the back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted June 14, 2022 Report Share Posted June 14, 2022 5 hours ago, ExFlyer said: Gun ownership have been a divisive issue for many many years, regardless of what party is in power. The majority of Canadians are misinformed by what? They read, see or hear about crimes and issues with guns. they feel this is a problem. Just as you seem to feel there is not. The bill does not target legal gun owners. That is false. It targets specific weapons. Does it solve the gun problem (even you say there is a gun problem), who knows. Only the future can say. Canada is broken and has been broken for a long time, again, regardless who has been in power, or, maybe Canada functions as we, the people, want it to function? In a democracy, majority normally rules. By the government's message, it is not consistent with facts presented by other government agencies. Such as police, and police stats or stats Can. I mean the government or this government has never told any lies so far right... Then they are not understanding what they are reading, or refuse to challenge the government s message. How hard is it to determine that legal gun owners are not the problem? either Canadians don't care or don't have any deductive reasoning. That shit is funny, it does not target legal gun owners... it targets specific weapons... Yes specific weapons owned by legal gun owners, Do you really think that criminals follow and practice good legal firearm practices. "hey, Billy bob can't take that handgun to rob that bank their an illegal dummy". Who else is it going to affect if not legal gun owners? Anything else is a lie... I did not say there is a problem, the government says there is a huge problem, while gun deaths are down from 1976 and that up to 90% of those gun deaths are from illegal firearms... here is where that deductive reasoning comes in, maybe a huge dose of common sense, if one wants to tackle gun violence and gun deaths one would start at the largest source " illegal firearms" but it seems most Canadians as you say can not reach that conclusion for what reasons? Statistics Canada also says that only 277 homicides out of the 743 committed in Canada in 2020 are done with firearms and 90 % of them are done with illegal guns. I know who cares...quickly followed by knives, at 234, but no tighten-up to be done their knives are not scary, Number of homicide victims, by method used to commit the homicide (statcan.gc.ca) This is Canada's message, we don't like guns they scare us that is all you need to know, and we don't care why you want them or what the facts say, we need to keep Canadians safe... good thing we don't go on these tangents very often, or drunk drivers who kill 1,500 Canadians each year "well who cares" 5 times more than are killed by firearms... This whole gun control is crafted by the government to keep our minds busy to make us think the liberals are keeping us safe and doing something constructive, or distracting us from other more important things that should be going on. like health care. i know who fucking cares, we are getting gun control...Did you expect anything else from the government, what did you expect Canadians would do about it? nothing in fact we expect it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExFlyer Posted June 14, 2022 Report Share Posted June 14, 2022 52 minutes ago, Army Guy said: By the government's message, it is not consistent with facts presented by other government agencies. Such as police, and police stats or stats Can. I mean the government or this government has never told any lies so far right... Then they are not understanding what they are reading, or refuse to challenge the government s message. How hard is it to determine that legal gun owners are not the problem? either Canadians don't care or don't have any deductive reasoning. That shit is funny, it does not target legal gun owners... it targets specific weapons... Yes specific weapons owned by legal gun owners, Do you really think that criminals follow and practice good legal firearm practices. "hey, Billy bob can't take that handgun to rob that bank their an illegal dummy". Who else is it going to affect if not legal gun owners? Anything else is a lie... I did not say there is a problem, the government says there is a huge problem, while gun deaths are down from 1976 and that up to 90% of those gun deaths are from illegal firearms... here is where that deductive reasoning comes in, maybe a huge dose of common sense, if one wants to tackle gun violence and gun deaths one would start at the largest source " illegal firearms" but it seems most Canadians as you say can not reach that conclusion for what reasons? Statistics Canada also says that only 277 homicides out of the 743 committed in Canada in 2020 are done with firearms and 90 % of them are done with illegal guns. I know who cares...quickly followed by knives, at 234, but no tighten-up to be done their knives are not scary, Number of homicide victims, by method used to commit the homicide (statcan.gc.ca) This is Canada's message, we don't like guns they scare us that is all you need to know, and we don't care why you want them or what the facts say, we need to keep Canadians safe... good thing we don't go on these tangents very often, or drunk drivers who kill 1,500 Canadians each year "well who cares" 5 times more than are killed by firearms... This whole gun control is crafted by the government to keep our minds busy to make us think the liberals are keeping us safe and doing something constructive, or distracting us from other more important things that should be going on. like health care. i know who fucking cares, we are getting gun control...Did you expect anything else from the government, what did you expect Canadians would do about it? nothing in fact we expect it. Yes, legal gun owners are not a problem. Canadians do not care, they mostly do not like guns and demanded the government do something. I never said you said there was a problem. The public says there is a problem and the government is acting on their demands. We are in agreement with almost everything with the exception of what Canadians demand of the government Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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