Finland moves to join NATO ‘without delay’ after Ukraine invasion

[Great American]

Finland must seek immediate membership in NATO, leaders of the Nordic nation said on Thursday, moving to end seven decades outside the Western military bloc in response to Russia’s war in Ukraine.

Finland’s entry would add significant combat power to the alliance while also deepening the East-West divisions that have consumed Europe since Russia’s Feb. 24 invasion. Neighboring Sweden is expected to announce its own NATO bid soon.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/05/12/finland-nato-membership-russia-ukraine/

 

Awww, crap! Another country sucking on America's teet. Trump was right: Until NATO Nations pay their fair share then we should get the **** out of NATO. I am tired of footing the bill for the world just to have the world turn around and spit on us (America) every day.

[Great American]

Trump is right -- NATO is obsolete, and he's delivering that message loud and clear
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/trump-is-right-nato-is-obsolete-and-hes-delivering-that-message-loud-and-clear

4 years ago

President Trump continued his criticism of NATO Tuesday before he headed to Europe for a meeting of leaders of the 29-nation alliance Wednesday, trading barbed tweets with European Council President Donald Tusk. The testy exchange was further evidence that the president is right when he says that NATO – created in 1949 – has become obsolete.

The U.S. president understands one of the great cardinal rules of geopolitics that others seem to have forgotten: no alliance lasts forever. After almost 70 years, America and its NATO partners in Europe may be heading for a new relationship, while still remaining friends.

In an early morning tweet Tuesday, President Trump wrote: “Getting ready to leave for Europe. First meeting - NATO. The U.S. is spending many times more than any other country in order to protect them. Not fair to the U.S. taxpayer. On top of that we lose $151 Billion on Trade with the European Union. Charge us big Tariffs (& Barriers)!”

And in another tweet President Trump wrote: “NATO countries must pay MORE, the United States must pay LESS. Very Unfair!”

Tusk responded with a tweet of his own: “Dear @realDonaldTrump. US doesn’t have and won’t have a better ally than EU. We spend on defense much more than Russia and as much as China. I hope you have no doubt this is an investment in our security, which cannot be said with confidence about Russian & Chinese spending.”

History teaches us obvious reasons for the breakup of alliances. Circumstances and threats change. One country’s mortal enemy one day could be the nation’s best friend the next. Just look back at World War II – our enemies Germany, Japan and Italy are our allies today. Our ally Russia (part of the Soviet Union back then) is our adversary.

There is only one constant when it comes to smart foreign policy. A nation seeks allies and partnership where it has common interests. Sometimes those alliances lose their value or importance over time and break up.

NATO was formed to defend against the Soviet Union and its Warsaw Pact allies. But the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact died in 1991 – and NATO’s original mission died then as well. Soviet tanks are no longer primed to head into Europe to conquer our NATO partners. NATO is now a world-class military alliance looking for a mission.

To be clear, Moscow is certainly a dangerous adversary. Its occupation and annexation of Crimea – thanks to its growing military might – as well as brutal chemical weapons attacks on British soil prove a rogue Russia needs to be deterred and confronted if need be.

But today’s Russia is not the superpower threat that the Soviet Union was. Over the long-term, demographic issues, economic stagnation and questions of who succeeds Russian President Vladimir Putin clearly ensure Moscow is not the boogeyman it once was.

Russia’s economy is roughly the size of Italy. But thanks to a tremendous amount of natural resources (particularly oil and natural gas) that it can sell, along with a military inheritance from the Soviet Union – including a large nuclear arsenal – Russia clearly poses a real threat to Europe that can’t be wished away.

But as President Trump has pointed out, if Europe really wanted to defend itself – and all NATO nations spent 2 percent their gross domestic products on defense, as they are supposed to be doing in the next few years – Russia would be no match for the might of just Britain, France and Germany alone.

Add in the capabilities of all the other members of the alliance – with America playing a small role as well – and Putin would, at least in theory, have every incentive to play nice for as long as he stays in power.

Instead, we have a situation where many of Europe’s major powers have armed forces that can barely do anything anymore. Having focused on developing expensive social welfare programs that cost billions of dollars every year, Europe has instead outsourced its defense to the U.S. military and U.S. taxpayers.

This forces America to put vital resources into Europe that are sorely needed elsewhere – especially in Asia. Even having a military with a $700 billion annual budget that is the best in the world does not mean America can defend all our allies all over the world. They have a responsibility to pay their fair share for their own defense and fill the ranks of their own armed forces, as President Trump has repeatedly pointed out.

America’s power and might must be focused on the greatest of all threats, with our partners and friends taking on the burden in other areas of the world that are closer to their doorstep.

With Chinese economic and military power on the rise, the U.S. must concentrate its efforts on the rising Asian superpower that seeks to overthrow the international order in the Asia-Pacific and turn large sections of the sea into its own sovereign territory. China is the national security challenge of our time. Russia does not even come close.

And then there is North Korea. As the world witnessed last weekend, Pyongyang will not be handing over its nuclear bombs anytime soon. Washington must focus as much of its diplomatic attention – and if need be, military might – on ensuring that we find a long-term solution to deal with North Korea. If we fail to do this, we are doomed to increased tensions like those that nearly brought East Asia to the brink of nuclear war last summer.

All this means that America’s available diplomatic and military bandwidth that it can devote to Europe must change. We must face up to the fact that NATO, in its present form, is obsolete. The alliance must evolve into an organization led and mostly resourced by Europeans.

So, is America going to quit NATO and go back across the Atlantic or abandon its allies in Europe? Never. Does that mean a wave of isolationism has infected Washington and we won’t honor our treaty commitments or push back against Moscow in another crisis? Not at all.

But it does mean a fundamental shift in burden that a Europe blessed with wealth and riches can easily maintain. However, if Europe is unwilling or unable to field a credible armed force to take on challenges from Russia or elsewhere, we must question the utility of an alliance that is a shell of what it used to be.

During World War I, the U.S. Army produced an iconic recruiting poster showing Uncle Sam pointing a finger at the viewer saying: “I WANT YOU FOR U.S. ARMY.” We could use a similar poster today for our NATO allies, saying: “I WANT YOU FOR YOUR OWN ARMIES.”

This is the message I expect President Trump will deliver in Europe. And it’s one our partners on the continent need to listen to.

[August1991]

Finland is not joining NATO. It is merely asking to join.

====

I reckon that the Biden White House is putting enormous pressure on Finland and Sweden.

I watched/listened to the Finnish president:

 

[August1991]

Some people in the Biden Administration want regime change in Russia.

Others in the Biden Administration seem to want to change the world - make all 7 billion of us accept gay marriage as normal.

IMHO, America is not a Nazi progressive idea.

[August1991]

Gay marriage?

Even in America, salad dressing is not mayonnaise.

======

Libertarian Americans are correct to defend the individual's right to be what they are.

But Americans are foolish to get involved in foreign wars - unless it threatens their freedom.

In Canada, our war memorials indicate 1914-1918 and 1939-1945.

In Russia and America, the war started in 1941.

[August1991]

This is a disaster in the making.

I feel that people don't understand Summer 1914.

====

In Europe, before Spring 1914, all was well. Then, something happened.

Edited May 17, 2022 by August1991

[Yzermandius19]

On 5/17/2022 at 4:12 AM, August1991 said:

In Europe, before Spring 1914, all was well. Then, something happened.

fake news

all was not well

some people just thought it was

they were wrong

[Yzermandius19]

On 5/17/2022 at 3:25 AM, August1991 said:

Finland is not joining NATO. It is merely asking to join.

====

I reckon that the Biden White House is putting enormous pressure on Finland and Sweden.

I watched/listened to the Finnish president:

 

Finland and Sweden are joining NATO

they will be accepted

[August1991]

3 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

fake news

all was not well

some people just thought it was

they were wrong

Precisely.

The elite of Europe in 1910 thought that all was well.

====

By 1920, many various bureaucrats/diplomats - destititute but multilingual - would look for a place abroad. 

How did this catastrosphe in the Summer 1914 happen?

[Yzermandius19]

1 minute ago, August1991 said:

Precisely.

The elite of Europe in 1910 thought that all was well.

====

By 1920, many various bureaucrats/diplomats - destititute but multilingual - would look for a place abroad. 

How did this catastrosphe in the Summer 1914 happen?

Russia mobilized for war

[August1991]

45 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Russia mobilized for war

In 1912, the Ukraine didn't exist. Nor did Poland. Look at any map from the 19th century.

Like Canada today, Russia and the Austrian-Hungarian Empire were multicultural states.

Unlike Russia, Canada has two federal official languages.

=====

I wish Trudeau Snr were alive today.

His son is a version of his wife.

Edited May 19, 2022 by August1991

[Yzermandius19]

8 hours ago, August1991 said:

In 1914, the Ukraine didn't exist.

Nor did Polamd.

Like Canada today, Russia and the Austrian-Hungarian Empire were multicultural states.

Unlike Russia, Canada has two federal official languages.

in 1914, Russia mobilized for war on behalf of Serbia

which made war between them and Austria-Hungary inevitable

which drags Germany in to defend Austria-Hungary and France in to defend Russia

Germany decides to get a jump on France coming in

by going after them pre-emptively

but goes through Belgium to do it

who Britain enters the war to defend

Edited May 19, 2022 by Yzermandius19

[August1991]

18 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

in 1914, Russia mobilized for war on behalf of Serbia, which didn't exist

which made war between them and Austria-Hungary inevitable

which drags Germany in to defend Austria-Hungary and France in to defend Russia

Germany decides to get a jump on France coming in

by going after them pre-emptively

but goes through Belgium to do it

who Britain enters the war to defend

IOW, various Russian bureaucrats/diplomats because of events in Serbia made war on Belgium.

And many men were killed.

And the Austrian-Hungarian Empire collapsed.

=====

If what you say is true, how can we protect our Canadian multicultural, federal bilingual state?

Edited May 19, 2022 by August1991

[August1991]

Yzermandius,

I have a different theory of wars.

1. Europeans are a violent people.

2. Every three generations or so (once the men have forgotten), they fight again.

====

1618-1648 - Religious War

1789-1815 - Napoleonic Wars

1914-1945 - European Wars

[Yzermandius19]

24 minutes ago, August1991 said:

If what you say is true, how can we protect our Canadian multicultural, federal bilingual state?

I don't want it protected

I want it to collapse

down with Confederation

[August1991]

5 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

I don't want it protected

I want it to collapse

down with Confederation

I prefer our civilised Canadian multicutural, bilingual federal State to the European war every several generation or so.

[Yzermandius19]

3 minutes ago, August1991 said:

I prefer our civilised Canadian multicutural, bilingual federal State to the European war every several generation or so.

false dichotomy

Canada doesn't need to be one country to prevent war

the federal government is useless

[August1991]

1 hour ago, Yzermandius19 said:

false dichotomy

Canada doesn't need to be one country to prevent war

the federal government is useless

Fair point.

In the past several centuries, the Americans have had one civil war.

We Canadians have had no war - despite speaking two languages and having leaders of different religions.

====

I like this idea of a federal state - with no official culture/religion. But at the federal level, official languages. And at the state/province level, protection of the individual. 

Americans are obsessed with race/skin colour in private affairs.

I prefer a federal state with federal bureaucrats that speak my language. That's all.

For local affairs, I must speak in the local dialect.

[August1991]

The US Constitution - while written in English - made no mention of how the State should speak to an individual.

Yet, I've always loved most the 10th Amendment.

We should have it in Canada. Every Supreme Court decision should first refer to it.

====

I reckon that Hamilton or Madison in the Federalist Papers established this idea. Your 10th Amendment is a basic concept of a bureaucracy in a federal state.

Edited May 19, 2022 by August1991

[August1991]

In case anyone cares, I was surprised to read about the rarely cited 9th Amendment.

It makes the 10th Amendment more explicit.

Amazing.

====

In Canada, the Supreme Court can default to restricting the individual - so the provincial government has power. Unless, by default, the federal government has even more power.

Our Charter of Rights is nothing like the amendments to the US Constitution: specifically the 9th and 10th.

Everyone talks about the "notwithstanding clause". What they ignore is that the federal government (federal bureaucrat)  has the power to override a provincial bureaucrat - or even an individual. 

Edited May 19, 2022 by August1991

[Aristides]

12 hours ago, August1991 said:

Yzermandius,

I have a different theory of wars.

1. Europeans are a violent people.

2. Every three generations or so (once the men have forgotten), they fight again.

====

1618-1648 - Religious War

1789-1815 - Napoleonic Wars

1914-1945 - European Wars

Hence the EU which is an attempt to make sure it never happens again. In spite of which, many on the right would like to see it fail.

[Yzermandius19]

6 hours ago, Aristides said:

Hence the EU which is an attempt to make sure it never happens again. In spite of which, many on the right would like to see it fail.

the EU doesn't prevent war

that's just marketing for the rubes

Edited May 19, 2022 by Yzermandius19

[August1991]

On 5/19/2022 at 7:17 PM, Yzermandius19 said:

the EU doesn't prevent war

that's just marketing for the rubes

rubes? EU?

Excepting the US Civil War, we ordinary people and our elite in North America have avoided catastrophic wars for over two centuries.

People in Europe are fighting now - as I post these words.

=======

Some foolish people (eg. George Clooney) believe that Europeans are sophisticated, civilized.

While these same foolish people (eg. George Clooney) believe that ordinary Americans are backward and ignorant.

 

 

 

[-TSS-]

I'm not sure if this is a smart move by us in Finland but the more the Russians threaten us with consequences the more resolute people become about the need to join NATO.

[Dougie93]

14 hours ago, -TSS- said:

I'm not sure if this is a smart move by us in Finland but the more the Russians threaten us with consequences the more resolute people become about the need to join NATO.

the Kremlin would be hoisted on its own petard if it were to attack Finland

Winter War 2.0 would make the fiasco the Russians have made for themselves in Ukraine look like a cake walk