Another Mass Shooting

[BeaverFever]

55 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

you gave no evidence

evidence that some places with low gun crime also have gun control isn't proof that gun control is the cause of the low gun crime

what proof do you have that gun control is the cause

and that various other factors aren't driving the low gun crime rate that you are attributing to gun control?

Like what other factors… the drinking water? The most popular breakfast cereal?

Can you give me an example of a first world county that has more gun control but worse gun crime?  Keeping in mind that you were already completely wrong about Switzerland b

Give an example of  you would consider acceptable evidence. 

[Yzermandius19]

56 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Like what other factors… the drinking water? The most popular breakfast cereal?

like the violent crime rate

like the homicide rate

like the acceptability of using violence to resolve disputes

like the acceptability of using gun violence to resolve disputes

like socioeconomic conditions

like mental health differences

like the influence of the media

etc.

 

why would just assume gun control is the primary difference maker?

particularly to the point that you feel it necessary to make jokes about how little the impact of other factors is on gun crime?

 

Norway has more mass shootings per 100k than America

Norway has far more gun control than America and far less guns

if gun control was the primary difference maker in gun crime to the degree you suggest

and a wide variety of other factors could be hand waved away as you did in the above post

then how do you explain that?

Edited August 1, 2022 by Yzermandius19

[Infidel Dog]

52 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Can you give me an example of a first world county that has more gun control but worse gun crime? 

Boy did you ever fuck up there Beave. Bad time to make a typo. 

What county is Chicago in, anyway?

Just kidding.  Carry on.

[Aristides]

5 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

like the violent crime rate

like the homicide rate

like the acceptability of using violence to resolve disputes

like the acceptability of using gun violence to resolve disputes

like socioeconomic conditions

like mental health differences

like the influence of the media

etc.

 

Just the kind of place you want everyone to be carrying a gun. Your idea of  heaven must be Tombstone in the 1870's.

[ExFlyer]

15 hours ago, Zijlstra said:

So I'll take that as a yes, another mass shooting in a gun-free zone (read: defenseless victims zone)

Why would you even take is as an answer?

(read: do your own research)

[ExFlyer]

19 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

security of the person is a right

you want to infringe on that right

so prove that infringement is worth it

Really?  What "right" is that?

[ExFlyer]

12 hours ago, Aristides said:

Bullshit. If 20K people pull out guns, 90% of them won’t know who the real shooter is.

I’m not triggered by guns, I’m not even against them. I’m just not a delusional idiot.

Decades ago a fictional TV character named Archie Bunker said he had the solution to airplane hijacking that was occurring at the time.

He said, when you issue a boarding pass, you issue a gun too because then a potential hijacker would have to think twice about what he was going to do

[Yzermandius19]

13 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Really?  What "right" is that?

section 7 of the Charter

gun rights exist in Canada too

the government just frequently violates them

and you support them doing so

Edited August 1, 2022 by Yzermandius19

[Yzermandius19]

22 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Just the kind of place you want everyone to be carrying a gun. Your idea of  heaven must be Tombstone in the 1870's.

that's a blatant strawman due to the cognitive dissonance of being confronted with an argument you have no rebuttal for

[ExFlyer]

8 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

False. Switzerland has always had one of the highest rates of gun violence in Europe and the federal government has been toughening gun control in recent years with result being lower gun crime .

You’ve already been educated about the reality in Switzerland but you continue to spew your false nonsense Here are the facts that I already provided for you AGAIN :

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/switzerland-gun-laws-rates-of-gun-deaths-2018-2?amp

 

 

 

Not sure what you are trying to convey. The link you provided indicates Switzerland is quite safe and has very good gun control measures.

Your link says "Switzerland still has one of the highest rates of gun violence in Europe, and suicides account for most gun deaths in the country." but does not provide any statistics. Far form mass shooting and crimes involving guns.

It also says "In 2016, the country had 47 attempted homicides with firearms. The country's overall murder rate is near zero."

[ExFlyer]

16 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

section 7 of the Charter

gun rights exist in Canada too

the government just frequently violates them

and you support them doing so

There is no indication or mention of weapons and the intent of loss of liberty is for imprisonment not weapon ownership.

"Sections 7 to 14 set out rights that protect Canadians when dealing with the justice system. "

"7. Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice.

Section 7 guarantees the life, liberty and personal security of all Canadians. It also requires that governments respect the basic principles of justice whenever they intrude on those rights. Section 7 often comes into play in criminal matters because an accused person clearly faces the risk that, if convicted, his or her liberty will be lost."

https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/services/how-rights-protected/guide-canadian-charter-rights-freedoms.html#a2e

.

[Yzermandius19]

9 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

There is no indication or mention of weapons and the intent of loss of liberty is for imprisonment not weapon ownership.

"Sections 7 to 14 set out rights that protect Canadians when dealing with the justice system. "

"7. Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice.

Section 7 guarantees the life, liberty and personal security of all Canadians. It also requires that governments respect the basic principles of justice whenever they intrude on those rights. Section 7 often comes into play in criminal matters because an accused person clearly faces the risk that, if convicted, his or her liberty will be lost."

https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/services/how-rights-protected/guide-canadian-charter-rights-freedoms.html#a2e

.

guns certainly qualify as part of personal security

Edited August 1, 2022 by Yzermandius19

[ExFlyer]

41 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

guns certainly qualify as part of personal security

Once again ""Sections 7 to 14 set out rights that protect Canadians when dealing with the justice system. " "?

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

Just the kind of place you want everyone to be carrying a gun. Your idea of  heaven must be Tombstone in the 1870's.

We don't need to carry a gun here where I live. But in the big cities it's almost a necessity, judging by what I read in the news. There's gunplay and murders every night now in Toronto. Wasn't that way before when I lived there, 25 years ago.

A good question is why.

I think gangs has a lot to do with it. Gangs exist in big cities, another reason why cities are an abomination. And gangs come about through a form of shared cultural identity. It's a sub-culture. For example ya got yer Black and Asian gangs, and the Eyetalians.

There's plenty of reasons for violence in big cities, stemming from  our innate sense of xenophobia towards the other, or the stranger.

There is no need for gangs in a mono-culture. Therefore enforced multi-culturalism ultimately breeds contempt, gang warfare and gun violence.

[Aristides]

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

There is no indication or mention of weapons and the intent of loss of liberty is for imprisonment not weapon ownership.

"Sections 7 to 14 set out rights that protect Canadians when dealing with the justice system. "

"7. Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice.

Section 7 guarantees the life, liberty and personal security of all Canadians. It also requires that governments respect the basic principles of justice whenever they intrude on those rights. Section 7 often comes into play in criminal matters because an accused person clearly faces the risk that, if convicted, his or her liberty will be lost."

https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/services/how-rights-protected/guide-canadian-charter-rights-freedoms.html#a2e

.

Exactly, the government cannot arbitrarily deprive you of your freedom. It has nothing to do with a right to bear arms. 

If you are convicted of a crime by the justice system, not the government, you may be deprived of your freedom. That's how the law works. Do you have a better idea?

[Aristides]

6 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

We don't need to carry a gun here where I live. But in the big cities it's almost a necessity, judging by what I read in the news. There's gunplay and murders every night now in Toronto. Wasn't that way before when I lived there, 25 years ago.

A good question is why.

I think gangs has a lot to do with it. Gangs exist in big cities, another reason why cities are an abomination. And gangs come about through a form of shared cultural identity. It's a sub-culture. For example ya got yer Black and Asian gangs, and the Eyetalians.

There's plenty of reasons for violence in big cities, stemming from  our innate sense of xenophobia towards the other, or the stranger.

There is no need for gangs in a mono-culture. Therefore enforced multi-culturalism ultimately breeds contempt, gang warfare and gun violence.

So are you going to shoot it out with some gang bangers if you happen to get caught in one of their gang related shootouts?

[ExFlyer]

Just now, Aristides said:

Exactly, the government cannot arbitrarily deprive you of your freedom. It has nothing to do with a right to bear arms. 

If you are convicted of a crime by the justice system, not the government, you may be deprived of your freedom. That's how the law works. Do you have a better idea?

You said "Section 7 of the Charter gun rights exist in Canada too" and

"guns certainly qualify as part of personal security

Section 7 has nothing to do with guns, let alone indicating you can have or carry or use them.

[Aristides]

7 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

like the violent crime rate

like the homicide rate

like the acceptability of using violence to resolve disputes

like the acceptability of using gun violence to resolve disputes

like socioeconomic conditions

like mental health differences

like the influence of the media

etc.

 

why would just assume gun control is the primary difference maker?

particularly to the point that you feel it necessary to make jokes about how little the impact of other factors is on gun crime?

 

Norway has more mass shootings per 100k than America

Norway has far more gun control than America and far less guns

if gun control was the primary difference maker in gun crime to the degree you suggest

and a wide variety of other factors could be hand waved away as you did in the above post

then how do you explain that?

Bullshit

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/mass-shootings-by-country

 

[Zijlstra]

15 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

yes there is

and they are most common locations where most mass shooters choose to go on their shooting sprees

because their victims are less likely to be armed and be able to shoot back

And it was Joe Biden who introduced that legislation and got all those schoolkids murdered.

[Yzermandius19]

10 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Bullshit

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/mass-shootings-by-country

 

your own data confirms I'm correct

nice own goal

Edited August 1, 2022 by Yzermandius19

[Zijlstra]

Of all the rampage shootings in the last decade, how many ere in a gun-free zone, defined as either a gun-free zone mandated by law or one mandated by policy (such as malls that forbid weapons)?

Then, if any took place outside of a gun-free zone, how did those each end? Casualty rates, did the shooter leave the scene? Who stopped the shooter?

See, the gun-grabbers ignore the whole gun-free zone/defenseless victim thing just as they lump gang shootings in with rampage shootings because they're dishonest and will say and do anything to disarm the plebs so their dreams of a totalitarian dystopia might come to fruition.

[Aristides]

10 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

America having more firearms homicides than Canada has nothing to do with the amount of guns in either nation

Switzerland has a lot more guns than many countries with much higher firearms homicide rates, for instance

just because someone owns or carries a gun

doesn't mean it's inevitable they shoot someone with it

that's not how it works

We discussed Switzerland before and it is nothing like the USD

Most gun ownership in Switzerland is related to their compulsory military service and maintaining a real,  Well Regulated Militia.

Per capita gun ownership in Switzerland is much lower than the US 27.6 guns per 100 people vs 120 for the US. Even Canada is higher than Switzerland with 34.7 guns per 100 people.

Over a third of Swiss firearms are registered vs 0.2% in the US.

You have to show a clear need to carry a firearm in Switzerland

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_regulation_in_Switzerland#Conditions_for_obtaining_a_Carrying_Permit

Switzerland also has the highest gun death rate in Western Europe, only Finland in Scandinavia is slightly higher but it also has a higher gun ownership rate than Switzerland at 32.4 guns per 100 people, also the highest ownership rate in Scandinavia.

 

[Aristides]

7 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

your own data confirms I'm correct

nice own goal

In what fantasy do you live? Gun ownership in the US is over 5 times higher than Switzerland.

[Yzermandius19]

7 minutes ago, Aristides said:

In what fantasy do you live? Gun ownership in the US is over 5 times higher than Switzerland.

Norway mass shootings relative to the population dummy

way higher than America despite far less guns and way more gun control

same with France

if amount of gun control or number of guns are the main things that explain who has the most mass shootings

explain how America has notably less than them

your own data doesn't match your narrative

Edited August 1, 2022 by Yzermandius19

[Aristides]

2 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Norway mass shootings relative to the population dummy

way higher than America despite far less guns and way more gun control

same with France

explain that

Bullshit, You cherry pick one year when Norway had a single shooting that killed 67.