Another Mass Shooting

[Dougie93]

Just now, Aristides said:

Since it took 96 minutes to get him, I totally disagree.

you don't have any evidence tho, all your assertions are based on your feelings

[Aristides]

Just now, Dougie93 said:

you don't have any evidence tho, all your assertions are based on your feelings

Say what? So let't get rid of all our ERT, we obviously don't need them. Oh wait, Saanich.

Edited July 6, 2022 by Aristides

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, Aristides said:

I thought the subject was mass shootings.

the math has shown that the shooting of 77 Norwegians on one day by mass shooter

accounts for only a tiny fraction of Norway's very high death rate by mass shooter, twenty times that of America's

[Aristides]

Firearms death rate per 100K population

Norway 1.48

US      12.21

Firearms homicide rate per 100K population

Norway .06

US 4.46

Firearms suicide rate per 100k population

Norway 1.4

US 7.3

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

[Dougie93]

14 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Say what? So let't get rid of all our ERT, we obviously don't need them. Oh wait, Saanich.

SWAT teams are entirely reactive, they do not prevent crimes from occurring

the bank has already been robbed by the time the SWAT team shows up

the mass shooter has already killed his targets by the time the SWAT team shows up

in the recent mass school shooting in Texas, the SWAT team actually refused to go in

they stood around and did nothing while the mass shooter ran amok

in terms of the RCMP

they are proven to be utterly incompetent based on their response to the recent mass shooting in Nova Scotia

[Dougie93]

15 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Firearms death rate per 100K population

Norway 1.48

US      12.21

Firearms homicide rate per 100K population

Norway .06

US 4.46

Firearms suicide rate per 100k population

Norway 1.4

US 7.3

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

we are only talking about mass shootings, stay on topic

the leading cause of gun deaths overall in America is actually suicide

Edited July 6, 2022 by Dougie93

[Infidel Dog]

12 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Firearms death rate per 100K population

Norway 1.48

US      12.21

Firearms homicide rate per 100K population

Norway .06

US 4.46

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

That's the 2015 stat. I wonder how much digging the Wiki editor had to do to find it.

Now give us the 2011 stat when Brevik was doing his thing.

Was it you who said "Numbers don't lie?" Thanks for proving yourself wrong.

Actually the last pages of this thread are rife with evidence of that.

For example somebody was posting how low the stats have been in Australia since their gun control measures. Dig into the stats and its more, 'kind of, but not really...'

https://johnrlott.blogspot.com/2012/08/some-notes-on-claims-about-australias.html?m=1

Somebody else was strutting around using last week's Highland Park shootings as evidence of the effectiveness of gun control. He forgot to mention how Highland Park is in Chicago which has among the most stringent gun regulations in America. He was also trying to blame Republicans but forgot to tell you Chicago and for that matter Illinois are Democrat strongholds. Also, best evidence says the Highland Park shooter was a raging lefty.

[Aristides]

23 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

SWAT teams are entirely reactive, they do not prevent crimes from occurring

the bank has already been robbed by the time the SWAT team shows up

the mass shooter has already killed his targets by the time the SWAT team shows up

in the recent mass school shooting in Texas, the SWAT team actually refused to go in

they stood around and did nothing while the mass shooter ran amok

in terms of the RCMP

they are proven to be utterly incompetent based on their response to the recent mass shooting in Nova Scotia

In Saanich there was no robbery, it was a trap for police. The so called bank robbers did nothing for 20 minutes while they waited for police. If the Victoria ERT team wasn't close by and the response was from lightly armed patrol officers, it would have been a lot worse than 6 officers wounded.

[Dougie93]

Just now, Aristides said:

In Saanich there was no robbery, it was a trap for police. The so called bank robbers did nothing for 20 minutes while they waited for police. If the Victoria ERT team wasn't close by and the response was from lightly armed patrol officers, it would have been a lot worse than 6 officers wounded.

the police did not prevent the crime from occurring

 the police could not even prevent themselves from being shot

so SWAT teams do not actually prevent mass shootings

 

 

[Aristides]

11 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

That's the 2015 stat. I wonder how much digging the Wiki editor had to do to find it.

Now give us the 2011 stat when Brevik was doing his thing.

Was it you who said "Numbers don't lie?" Thanks for proving yourself wrong.

Actually the last pages of this thread are rife with evidence of that.

For example somebody was posting how low the stats have been in Australia since their gun control measures. Dig into the stats and its more, 'kind of, but not really...'

https://johnrlott.blogspot.com/2012/08/some-notes-on-claims-about-australias.html?m=1

Somebody else was strutting around using last week's Highland Park shootings as evidence of the effectiveness of gun control. He forgot to mention how Highland Park is in Chicago which has among the most stringent gun regulations in America. He was also trying to blame Republicans but forgot to tell you Chicago and for that matter Illinois are Democrat strongholds. Also, best evidence says the Highland Park shooter was a raging lefty.

2021 

US firearms fatalities 45,222. US population 333 million. That's 13.58 firearms deaths per 100K population. Pick a year.

What good does controlling guns in one city do when they can be legally brought in from anywhere else. You live in Chicago and want a gun, just go outside the city limits.

[Aristides]

1 minute ago, Dougie93 said:

the police did not prevent the crime from occurring

 the police could not even prevent themselves from being shot

so SWAT teams do not actually prevent mass shootings

 

 

Killing police was the intended crime.

[Dougie93]

Just now, Aristides said:

Killing police was the intended crime.

and the police were not able to prevent themselves from being victims of a mass shooting

proving that the police have no prior restraint against such a crime occurring

[Aristides]

23 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

the police did not prevent the crime from occurring

 the police could not even prevent themselves from being shot

so SWAT teams do not actually prevent mass shootings

 

 

The crime was to kill police, not rob a bank. They made no attempt to rob the bank. 
 

They may not prevent shootings but they can sure as hell reduce the carnage. It was a SWAT team that took out the Uvalde shooter, the local police did nothing.

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, Aristides said:

They may not prevent shootings but they can sure as hell reduce the carnage.

the SWAT team at the recent Texas mass school shooting did nothing at all

so SWAT teams do not in of themselves prevent carnage

[Infidel Dog]

2 hours ago, Aristides said:

2021 

US firearms fatalities 45,222. US population 333 million. That's 13.58 firearms deaths per 100K population. Pick a year.

Against Norway you mean? Gun Homicides per capita, you mean? I already gave you a year for that. 2011. Nice try on trying to sneak in 2015 through Wiki though. Oh wait...are you trying to sneak in American suicides in 2021, now?

You guys...you never get tired of the same old tricks. No matter how many times you get caught at them. 

Now as to guns being brought in from other cities...be realistic. You'll never get all the guns from all the gun owners in America. Not unless you want a totalitarian federal government kicking down doors at 3 in the morning, and such. Is that what you're hoping for? Even if you succeed you'll still have problems more problems. I still wouldn't be optimistic of your succcess.

So where are you with your stricter gun laws then? What do you want that you think would have stopped the Highland Park shooting in Chicaqo?  

[Aristides]

24 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

Against Norway you mean? Gun Homicides per capita, you mean? I already gave you a year for that. 2011. Nice try on trying to sneak in 2015 through Wiki though. Oh wait...are you trying to sneak in American suicides in 2021, now?

You guys...you never get tired of the same old tricks. No matter how many times you get caught at them. 

Now as to guns being brought in from other cities...be realistic. You'll never get all the guns from all the gun owners in America. Not unless you want a totalitarian federal government kicking down doors at 3 in the morning, and such. Is that what you're hoping for? Even if you succeed you'll still have problems more problems. I still wouldn't be optimistic of your succcess.

So where are you with your stricter gun laws then? What do you want that you think would have stopped the Highland Park shooting in Chicaqo?  

 

Of course you picked 2011, that's the year 77 people were killed in one shooting in Norway.

When it comes to Australia, you would probably pick 1996, ignoring the fact there hasn't been a mass shooting since.

When it comes to bullshit tricks, you are second to none.

Getting rid of semi auto assault weapons like the AR-15 would be a good start when it comes to reducing fatalities.

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by Aristides

[WestCanMan]

5 hours ago, Aristides said:

They wouldn't be.

Try this using your grandpa's bolt action with a 5 round magazine.

https://nypost.com/2022/07/04/video-reveals-rapid-fire-gunshots-in-highland-park-parade-shooting/

You can get a .270 magnum semi-auto with a wooden stock right now that fires just as fast as an AR-15, has more power, and shoots straighter than a .556 NATO round like the one that's standard in the AR-15s. It also costs less money, on average. About $1,800 for the .270 mag, the ARs can easily go as high as $2,500, like the IWI Tavor x95.  

It can carry the same capacity mag as any other "assault-style" rifle that's legal in Canada. 

You don't need it to kill a deer, but you wouldn't want to go hunting feral hogs with your grandpa's bolt-action .300-calibre rifle. And feral hogs are a thing now in Western Canada. 

[Aristides]

31 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

You can get a .270 magnum semi-auto with a wooden stock right now that fires just as fast as an AR-15, has more power, and shoots straighter than a .556 NATO round like the one that's standard in the AR-15s. It also costs less money, on average. About $1,800 for the .270 mag, the ARs can easily go as high as $2,500, like the IWI Tavor x95.  

It can carry the same capacity mag as any other "assault-style" rifle that's legal in Canada. 

You don't need it to kill a deer, but you wouldn't want to go hunting feral hogs with your grandpa's bolt-action .300-calibre rifle. And feral hogs are a thing now in Western Canada. 

I worked with a guy who used to shoot wild pigs with a bow and arrow. He also got a brown bear when he was living in Alaska.

[WestCanMan]

16 minutes ago, Aristides said:

I worked with a guy who used to shoot wild pigs with a bow and arrow. He also got a brown bear when he was living in Alaska.

Sounds like a real genius

Lol, couldn't resist. 

[Aristides]

8 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

you don't have any evidence tho, all your assertions are based on your feelings

Look it up for yourself. Whitman started shooting at 11:48 and was finally killed at 13:24.

He also had more than a bolt action rifle. He had several other weapons including two handguns a shotgun and a M1 carbine.

Edited July 6, 2022 by Aristides

[Infidel Dog]

4 hours ago, Aristides said:

 

Of course you picked 2011, that's the year 77 people were killed in one shooting in Norway.

I picked 2011 to illustrate the sneaky stupidity of you trying pass off a single year's stat as significant of something.

Quote

When it comes to Australia, you would probably pick 1996, ignoring the fact there hasn't been a mass shooting since.

I gave somebody a link to a reference showing them exactly why Australia's gun payback scheme didn't actually work. I imagine that's what you're talking about but obviously didn't read the reference. If you choose not to read it and remain ignorant that's your problem. The reasoning has nothing to do with a single year though. Here it is again:

https://johnrlott.blogspot.com/2012/08/some-notes-on-claims-about-australias.html?m=1

Educate yourself this time.

Quote

When it comes to bullshit tricks, you are second to none.

If that's all you've got you've got nothing.

Quote

Getting rid of semi auto assault weapons like the AR-15 would be a good start when it comes to reducing fatalities.

We're still talking about Highland Park, right? Didn't work there.

Quote

The Highland Park ordinance that banned semiautomatic weapons like AR-15s was formally adopted in 2013. The Supreme Court upheld the ban in 2015.

Highland Park Mayor Nancy Rotering said on Tuesday that Crimo violated the local ordinance by bringing the weapon into the city.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/highland-park-shooting-gun-legally-obtained-crimo-mayor-rcna36646

Or did you mean you want to confiscate the millions of American AR style rifles. How did you plan on doing that?

BTW you did know most gun homicides in America are done with handguns, right? Did you know Crimo had 4 other weapons than the one he chose for highland park.

Edited July 6, 2022 by Infidel Dog

[Dougie93]

9 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Look it up for yourself.

Rifle reported to be used in Charles Whitman killing spree up for sale

Sep. 24, 2014

 

The Remington 700 rifle used by ex-Marine Charles Whitman during his August 1, 1966 reign of terror from the observation deck at the University of Texas in Austin is up on Dallas’ Texas Gun Trader website with a starting price tag of $25,000.Donald Weiss / Texas Gun Trade

https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/texas/article/Rifle-reported-to-be-used-in-Charles-Whitman-5777479.php

Edited July 6, 2022 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

9 minutes ago, Aristides said:

 He had several other weapons including two handguns a shotgun and a M1 carbine.

how many people did he shoot with the other weapons as opposed to the bolt action rifle ?

[Aristides]

3 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

I picked 2011 to illustrate the sneaky stupidity of you trying pass off a single year's stat as significant of something.

I gave somebody a link to a reference showing them exactly why Australia's gun payback scheme didn't actually work. I imagine that's what you're talking about but obviously didn't read the reference. If you choose not to read it and remain ignorant that's your problem. The reasoning has nothing to do with a single year though. Here it is again:

https://johnrlott.blogspot.com/2012/08/some-notes-on-claims-about-australias.html?m=1

Educate yourself this time.

If that's all you've got you've got nothing.

We're still talking about Highland Park, right? Didn't work there.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/highland-park-shooting-gun-legally-obtained-crimo-mayor-rcna36646

Or did you mean you want to confiscate the millions of American AR style rifles. How did you plan on doing that?

BTW you did know most gun homicides in America are done with handguns, right? Did you know Crimo had 4 other weapons than the one he chose for highland park.

I picked 2021 because it was the most recent. Pick any year, I dare ya.

Australia has had no mass shootings in the 26 years since it tightened its laws.

The crazy managed to legally get his hands on 5 weapons. That is supposed to be some kind of argument?

[Aristides]

Just now, Dougie93 said:

how many people did he shoot with the other weapons as opposed to the bolt action rifle ?

In 96 minutes he could have killed 100 people with a single shot rifle.