End of democracy project: Canada

[ExFlyer]

Just now, myata said:

Name one great democracy in this (21st) century that doesn't have a high-speed train (one). No, not Vietnam sorry. But not to worry, important is that our MPs get their $186K (that's bare minimum btw - for the calculation) and another annual rise is coming. A total, accomplished disconnect. No, not good for the evolution.

Huh? Train? Who cares about a high speed train except those between Toronto and Montreal and what good would high speed be if there will be 10 stops between the 2? LOL

High speed trains work in other countries because they are commuter used. We use trains for freight, not exactly suited to high speed. Just imagine a high speed oil train through the Rockies or southern Ontario? Or a high speed grain train??? 

Always interesting how some people are obsessed whit the salaries of other people. Must be jealousy LOL

[Michael Hardner]

31 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

My experience is that the machinery is constantly being "tuned "to what the public wants, that is why the Supply Manual alone is tens of thousands of pages and other process manuals for other departments are also voluminous.

The constant 'fixing" created ominous and often unworkable processes.

But top-down management, which is an ancient methodology, ensures that they will never be successful.  The way they work is as important as the intentions.

[Zeitgeist]

23 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Huh? Train? Who cares about a high speed train except those between Toronto and Montreal and what good would high speed be if there will be 10 stops between the 2? LOL

High speed trains work in other countries because they are commuter used. We use trains for freight, not exactly suited to high speed. Just imagine a high speed oil train through the Rockies or southern Ontario? Or a high speed grain train??? 

Always interesting how some people are obsessed whit the salaries of other people. Must be jealousy LOL

You’re way out of your depth.  HSR has been studied and determined viable in the Quebec-Windsor corridor.  At the very least, a core network between Toronto, Montreal, and Ottawa, with an extension to K-W is essential.  Right now planning is underway way for High Frequency Rail between these cities, which will eventually be upgraded to HSR.  Canada is a laggard in HSR.  China, Europe, and even parts of the U.S. are far ahead on this.  A corridor has also been proposed between Edmonton and Calgary.  I’m curious as to how you think greenhouse gases should be reduced.  Taxing drivers into the ground without providing a realistic commute alternative is a disaster.  

[myata]

48 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

are obsessed whit the salaries of other people

Of course we cannot be concerned with compensations of our aristo- sorry, bureau-crats paid by us, out of our .. .sorry, "the Crown"'s pocket. How could we? What does it have to do with us, we only honestly pay our dues, your lowly peasants. This is a democracy (what we call it), after all.

Edited May 5, 2022 by myata

[myata]

1. Proportional election system. Alternative: written in law that MPs are representatives of citizens, any attempt to influence the will of elected representative is against the law, end of split loyalties. Parties are political clubs (as they should have stayed), eliminates the power of unelected party offices.

2. Full transparency and openness in government operation. Elimination of obscure rules and prerogatives.

3. Regular MPs work part-time, modern technology allows it, with modest compensation tied to the reality of the country (like median income). Any rises possible only if prosperity of a regular citizen improves. Full transparency.

4. Elimination of patronage and sinecure positions and appointments. Full transparency, competence, modesty and common sense. Elimination of the unelected Senate.

5. Deep ground up reform of PS: efficiency; agility; competence; performance; common sense.

Edited May 5, 2022 by myata

[cougar]

5 hours ago, myata said:

The calculation is wrong on many levels. But aside from calculation there are two important issues:

1. Yes I like to decide who I give my coffee money to, how much of it and for what.

2. The MP ratio is now above 5 (past the third world mark) and will grow further to who know what, because there's no limits. Who, how can limit a bureaucrat who decides what they should be paid, with a ladle in front of the public vault? And this a problem. And this is no democracy because governments without limits aren't compatible with democracy however decorated. And I don't want that because I read and think and I know what follows, sooner or later.

Prove the calculation is wrong!  This one is easy, based on numbers.

You do not even buy 1 cup of coffee/year out of your $10,000K in tax, that you pay, if you paid that much at all.

Why?  Because much of the 332 billion comes from other sources, like selling land and selling rights over this land.

And this is what you should be concerned with - where the revenues are coming from and what happens with 332 billion once collected; not the measly 82 million that your brain can still not swallow years and years later.

If you cant prove my calculation wrong, I suggest you STFU.

4 hours ago, Nationalist said:

The problem folks like cougar, Mikey and Mandy have here, is they have a vested interest in the status quo. Don't rock the boat because this abusive government works for them. Hell they'll argue till they're blue in the face that Canadians should shut up and just trust the institutions. 

I must have given you the wrong impression.  Can't speak about Mike, for whom the above may be true, but I despise the current system!  

The thing is, other than complain about it like Myata, I realize there is nothing meaningful I can do, even if I decide to put my job and roof over my head at risk, like the truck convoy folks.  I support them all !  The old growth tree logging protesters too, the anti-pipeline folks too.

Edited May 5, 2022 by cougar

[cougar]

3 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

I keep hearing about companies and rich people hiding money off shore. Thing is, if they can do it, so can you. (1)

If Canada is so bad, why do so many foreigners invest in Canada?(2) To the point we are looking at legislation to curtail it?

In every election since I could vote (a long time LOL) every single party and politician has said they were going to cut taxes. Be it federal, provincial or municipal, none have ever kept that promise so, I think and so do politicians, we can pay more tax.  (3)

1. No.  I or you can't.  There was a minimum net worth threshold for those who invested with KPMG in the Isle of Man scheme that from memory was $1 million or above.  I do not have this type of money, and it only makes sense you do it, if you have substantial annual income to add to that.  The other aspect of it is, I may not want to associate with crooks to beat other crooks.

2. They invest because of our seemingly endless resources that Canada sells to them, because of the endless immigration scheme pumping bodies to generate GDP growth and because, unlike Ukraine, we have not seen a war on our lands for a long time

3.  I suppose this is a joke,  Still if you want to pay more tax, go ahead.  I will make sure I pay less, without ending up in the Panama papers.

[cougar]

5 hours ago, Nationalist said:

I think the most comical comment I read in this exchange, was Mandy claiming politicians work hard. Lol...such silliness.

 

Then you must have missed this one by myata:

I think it can take a Nobel prize.

But there's a problem still. .............the system is ........... incapable of understanding and managing a complex modern society;................

And that is a problem. ...............it can be a big problem without easy solutions. So just believing it and repeating same old over and over doesn't really solve problems..... 

[ExFlyer]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

You’re way out of your depth.  HSR has been studied and determined viable in the Quebec-Windsor corridor.  At the very least, a core network between Toronto, Montreal, and Ottawa, with an extension to K-W is essential.  Right now planning is underway way for High Frequency Rail between these cities, which will eventually be upgraded to HSR.  Canada is a laggard in HSR.  China, Europe, and even parts of the U.S. are far ahead on this.  A corridor has also been proposed between Edmonton and Calgary.  I’m curious as to how you think greenhouse gases should be reduced.  Taxing drivers into the ground without providing a realistic commute alternative is a disaster.  

Yup it sure has been studied .....for many decades and here we are, still without as it does not make enough sense to do it.  It has been on planning for just as long...and still nothing. A "study was initiated in 1992. The scope included "medium-fast" (200–250 km/h) and very fast (more than 300 km/h) technologies."   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail_in_Canada

As far as I can see, only China has tinkered with a high speed freight train. And it does not carry oil or hazardous liquids.

Bottom line with trains in Canada generally, they are not a reliable source of transportation. The Ottawa to Toronto one (which I have taken numerous times) rarely is on time. Totally unlike anything in Europe , which I have also taken many times.

"High-Speed Rail Is One of Canada’s Biggest Failures"

https://www.vice.com/en/article/zmep9e/high-speed-rail-is-one-of-canadas-biggest-failures

Greenhouse gasses? Great deflection LOL.

Oh and, not so "out of my depth".

Edited May 5, 2022 by ExFlyer

[ExFlyer]

2 hours ago, myata said:

Of course we cannot be concerned with compensations of our aristo- sorry, bureau-crats paid by us, out of our .. .sorry, "the Crown"'s pocket. How could we? What does it have to do with us, we only honestly pay our dues, your lowly peasants. This is a democracy (what we call it), after all.

Chuckle.

But you always bring up someones wages. As well as their occupations. Makes you feel superior? Or Inferior?

We are what we are and what we can or want to become.

[myata]

5 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Yup it sure has been studied .....for many decades

The next street they're building a retaining wall. About twenty meters total length. Started in August (last) supposed to be finished by November but bad luck. Into May now with no end in sight. In the national capital a light train project into its third decade of planning, and replanning finally something running for a year or so with multiple problems and not very useful. Anything useful years and uncounted taxpayer billions in the future.

How do countries build tens, hundreds of kilometers of transit in just years? Some/many of them modern, high speed? Unthinkable.

That's what the country will come to. Third world. Well on its way there. Hold tight.

[myata]

1 hour ago, cougar said:

Prove the calculation is wrong! 

It's there but you missed as usual. $186K is the bare, barest minimum for the laziest of MPs who have no other duties but sit and push buttons by the list handed from Above. Plus allowances, allocations and whatever. Plus expenses, second rented house and $17 juice included. Just keep you pocket open wide and smile broad and you'll be OK (they promise).

[cougar]

1 minute ago, myata said:

It's there but you missed as usual. $186K is the bare, barest minimum for the laziest of MPs who have no other duties but sit and push buttons by the list handed from Above. Plus allowances, allocations and whatever. Plus expenses, second rented house and $17 juice included. Just keep you pocket open wide and smile broad and you'll be OK (they promise).

Prove the calculation is wrong!  Or STFU.

[myata]

2 minutes ago, cougar said:

Prove the calculation is wrong!  Or STFU.

No cluelessness is not a valid excuse.

[cougar]

Just now, myata said:

No cluelessness is not a valid excuse.

Since you want to go round in circles beating the bush, I think we need a referee here.

Where is Mikey?  He doesn't like me much, but I think he may be fair and do the calculation for us, to determine who is right.     Where are you Michael Hardner?   Please help us here.

Myata, if you are are giving a verbal presentation about "the system is incapable of managing and understanding a complex modern society" your bullshit-baffle-brains tactics might actually succeed.

In a forum post where everyone can read, re-read, di-sect and analyze the bullshit, you stand no chance even against the slower brains.

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

Yup it sure has been studied .....for many decades and here we are, still without as it does not make enough sense to do it.  It has been on planning for just as long...and still nothing. A "study was initiated in 1992. The scope included "medium-fast" (200–250 km/h) and very fast (more than 300 km/h) technologies."   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail_in_Canada

As far as I can see, only China has tinkered with a high speed freight train. And it does not carry oil or hazardous liquids.

Bottom line with trains in Canada generally, they are not a reliable source of transportation. The Ottawa to Toronto one (which I have taken numerous times) rarely is on time. Totally unlike anything in Europe , which I have also taken many times.

"High-Speed Rail Is One of Canada’s Biggest Failures"

https://www.vice.com/en/article/zmep9e/high-speed-rail-is-one-of-canadas-biggest-failures

Greenhouse gasses? Great deflection LOL.

Oh and, not so "out of my depth".

Oh you spent 15 minutes on Wikipedia.  There’s much more to this topic and Canada is left in the dust.

[ExFlyer]

58 minutes ago, myata said:

The next street they're building a retaining wall. About twenty meters total length. Started in August (last) supposed to be finished by November but bad luck. Into May now with no end in sight. In the national capital a light train project into its third decade of planning, and replanning finally something running for a year or so with multiple problems and not very useful. Anything useful years and uncounted taxpayer billions in the future.

How do countries build tens, hundreds of kilometers of transit in just years? Some/many of them modern, high speed? Unthinkable.

That's what the country will come to. Third world. Well on its way there. Hold tight.

Being studied, not built, not even started, no bad weather, no plan, no action since 1992.

Your excuses are stupid.

[ExFlyer]

Just now, Zeitgeist said:

Oh you spent 15 minutes on Wikipedia.  There’s much more to this topic and Canada is left in the dust.

Better than you did LOL

I shut you down in those 10 minutes LOL

There is much more but, Canada does not seem interested and I agree. Imagine they spend billions of dollars on basically a commuter train for a few people. That would sure give you something to whine about.

We do not do train travel in Canada (and when we do it is poor service and reliability). We move freight.

https://www.klumpentown.com/article/via-reliability-2019-2020

[Nationalist]

3 hours ago, cougar said:

Prove the calculation is wrong!  This one is easy, based on numbers.

You do not even buy 1 cup of coffee/year out of your $10,000K in tax, that you pay, if you paid that much at all.

Why?  Because much of the 332 billion comes from other sources, like selling land and selling rights over this land.

And this is what you should be concerned with - where the revenues are coming from and what happens with 332 billion once collected; not the measly 82 million that your brain can still not swallow years and years later.

If you cant prove my calculation wrong, I suggest you STFU.

I must have given you the wrong impression.  Can't speak about Mike, for whom the above may be true, but I despise the current system!  

The thing is, other than complain about it like Myata, I realize there is nothing meaningful I can do, even if I decide to put my job and roof over my head at risk, like the truck convoy folks.  I support them all !  The old growth tree logging protesters too, the anti-pipeline folks too.

And yet even when it doesn't take putting your job on the line or anything...you still advocate for the status quo. 'There's nothing you can do.'

I don't roll-over. Never have been able to. Its gotten me in hot water a few times...but my conscience is clean as a whistle.

[Michael Hardner]

15 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

  Canada does not seem interested and I agree. Imagine they spend billions of dollars on basically a commuter train for a few people.  

There is a point about the approach to these projects though.  They take forever and this is akin to why Trudeau said he admired dictatorships.  You can't have a single neighbourhood in Toronto shut down an entire transit line plan or delay it for years in China.

I'd be down with transit being fast tracked more often but ... I hate rights and freedom....

[Nationalist]

2 hours ago, cougar said:

Then you must have missed this one by myata:

I think it can take a Nobel prize.

But there's a problem still. .............the system is ........... incapable of understanding and managing a complex modern society;................

And that is a problem. ...............it can be a big problem without easy solutions. So just believing it and repeating same old over and over doesn't really solve problems..... 

Indeed I did miss it. Gee...myata used more dots for pauses than even I do...and I use them a lot.

Edited May 5, 2022 by Nationalist

[myata]

29 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I hate rights and freedom....

Well, most of the developed democratic world has no problems with both, in the same place and at the same time. Even high speed, imagine that in this century! There has to be something wrong with this world. Not with us though, no. If it worked two hundred years back how could it go wrong?

Edited May 5, 2022 by myata

[cougar]

38 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

I don't roll-over. Never have been able to. Its gotten me in hot water a few times...but my conscience is clean as a whistle.

what hot water did you get into? lost a job and the roof over your head for your ideals?

Let me know what you do exactly and how it is changing anything globally, other than putting you in hot water.

My conscience is equally clean.

 

[cougar]

13 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Indeed I did miss it. Gee...myata used more dots for pauses than even I do...and I use them a lot.

No. He did not use all these dots.  I replaced some of the less relevant content with them.  You can still read his unredacted post on the previous page, which should produce the same effect.

[Nationalist]

15 minutes ago, cougar said:

what hot water did you get into? lost a job and the roof over your head for your ideals?

Let me know what you do exactly and how it is changing anything globally, other than putting you in hot water.

My conscience is equally clean.

 

Well let's see. It got me beat up a couple times as a young lad. And yes, I lost a job once because of my refusal to bend.

What do I do? I manage the creation of data centres. Cloud stuff.

Glad ur clean.